Playing 5e online

[Taejang]

My play group consists of people with kids and busy lives. We all live in the same town but we can't play as often as we'd like. If we could play online, we could play more often.

So we want to supplement (not replace!) our actual table playing with online play. I've heard of several programs that help facilitate online table-topping, but I was hoping for some advice. What programs would all you experienced folks recommend for us?

Must work well with 5e
Must be free from rules or allow them to be overruled- if the DM rules it, it happens, even if it means somebody moved 35 feet in a turn
Must allow the same campaign to be easily played in person or online
Preferably free
Preferably Windows and Mac compatible
Preferably isn't too complicated to use; we alternate between two DMs, and while I'm a computer guy, the other DM has average to slightly-above average tech skills

[jaydubs]

I'm a big fan of roll20, though to be honest I haven't tried anything else so I can't make a comparison. It's free and easy to use as a player. It's a bit more complicated from the DM side of things, but doesn't require any actual computer knowledge. Mostly just invest a few hours to learn how to work the layers, make tokens, download maps, etc.

The voice and video system isn't always the best quality, but it pairs well with either skype or google hangouts.

[Kryx]

I'm a big fan of roll20.
Agreed. I've used it for ~2 years now. It's great!

[asorel]

Roll20 is probably your best option if you need something free.

[Taejang]

Roll20 is probably your best option if you need something free.
We don't need something free. If there is a better option for a reasonable price, I'm willing to look into it.

[asorel]

We don't need something free. If there is a better option for a reasonable price, I'm willing to look into it.

I've heard good things about Fantasy Grounds, though I have yet to play with it myself. However, seeing as your group is going to fluctuate between IRL play and online play, I wouldn't recommend shelling out for a premium system.

[calebrus]

We don't need something free. If there is a better option for a reasonable price, I'm willing to look into it.

The main concern with online resources (any online resources) is whether you use a battle grid or a descriptive style. If using a battle grid, combat becomes really slow and arduous in comparison. The time it takes for the dice roller, for you to create the maps, for people to figure out how to use the system well enough, etc, all add a lot of time to combat.

Roll20 and the like work really well, but they're a LOT slower than table play. Like, a TON slower.

[themaque]

The main concern with online resources (any online resources) is whether you use a battle grid or a descriptive style. If using a battle grid, combat becomes really slow and arduous in comparison. The time it takes for the dice roller, for you to create the maps, for people to figure out how to use the system well enough, etc, all add a lot of time to combat.

Roll20 and the like work really well, but they're a LOT slower than table play. Like, a TON slower.

And if you have players who are slow already, it just becomse exponentially worse. I've tried but can't play online.

However, the tools I've seen in Roll20 work very well and I would recommend you give it a try. It was easily used in Google+ making it even easier to get everyone online.

[Psikerlord]

Roll20 (for pictures and dice rolls) and Skype (for talking. More stable than roll20 and if you accidentally click roll20 off, you dont lose everyone!).

I've played a fair bit of Roll20 this year and last and it works extremely well for no grid/theatre of the mind combat (which I use). You can pull pictures from the internet to show your players within about 10 secs, which is awesome for unexpected side treks, and you never alert players to secret DM rolls for perception etc. It also makes background sound effects very easy, if you like those (I do, on occasion).

I've also played it with grid combat, and it's fine. I did not find it any slower than in person with miniatures, once you get used to it. Combat is just slower with a grid in general.

I started with video and voice chat, but have decided I prefer voice only - surprisingly (for me) it is more immersive.

I would definitely recommend giving roll20 a try.

[Flickerdart]

I vastly prefer MapTool to Roll20. It's just so much more powerful when it comes to doing useful things (like giving players more token control, or macros, or dice math). Also a lot of the UX is simply better. However, it IS more complicated - you have to download a client and make sure you have the version of Java it likes, and forward ports if you want to host.

[Finieous]

The main concern with online resources (any online resources) is whether you use a battle grid or a descriptive style. If using a battle grid, combat becomes really slow and arduous in comparison. The time it takes for the dice roller, for you to create the maps, for people to figure out how to use the system well enough, etc, all add a lot of time to combat.

Roll20 and the like work really well, but they're a LOT slower than table play. Like, a TON slower.

I only started playing on Roll20 last year, but I haven't found this to be true at all if you're using voice chat (we use Skype). For set piece battles, the DM already has a map prepared. For more run-of-the-mill fights, we just slap something down with the drawing tool, which seems to take about as long as grabbing a marker and slapping something down on a battle mat. Clicking a character sheet button or macro is at least as fast as locating and rolling the correct dice, and there's no math. I'm old and tech illiterate, but I learned Roll20 quickly. Granted, I joined a group that already knew it, so that was easier.

So, YMMV. Anyway, it's free so it doesn't hurt to give it a try and see how you like it.

[Bacchanalian]

Also use Roll20 for similar reasons, and both DM a game on it and play in a game on it. It's easy to learn with a bit of time invested, and I find it works just fine for combat. We use honor system and roll our own dice, and you can use as much or as little of the UI as you want. In other words, you can track HP on the tokens/character sheets or on scratch paper at your desk. I do a mix of both and things move quickly enough.

[Kryx]

Roll20 and the like work really well, but they're a LOT slower than table play. Like, a TON slower.
This is not true. It's just a different style where people have to be a bit more careful of speaking over one another.

Grid vs. Theatre is it's own discussion, but grid brings much more immediate clarity than describing something imo.

I have used MapTool in the past and the UI was horrendously bad. Roll20 is better designed imo.

[calebrus]

I don't get where people think Roll20's combat runs at the speed of tabletop.
Combat takes twice as long with Roll20. No exaggeration. Same group of guys, similar fights. 15 minutes at the table, half an hour in Roll20.
Twice as long.
And now if you're going to factor in newbies to Roll20 on top of that, I can pretty much guarantee that it will literally take twice as long.

[Knaight]

The big things are a voice client of some sort. The two I've used heavily are Skype and Google Hangouts; I prefer Skype. You may or may not even want to use some sort of virtual table, it depends on whether or not you use a grid in the first place. If you do I recommend Maptools over Roll20, it's more powerful and a lot less finicky. There is also something called Tabletop Simulator that might work for this, though I'm not sure if it has the desired assets for an RPG, and have no idea how hard it is to get assets into it.

[Psikerlord]

I don't get where people think Roll20's combat runs at the speed of tabletop.
Combat takes twice as long with Roll20. No exaggeration. Same group of guys, similar fights. 15 minutes at the table, half an hour in Roll20.
Twice as long.
And now if you're going to factor in newbies to Roll20 on top of that, I can pretty much guarantee that it will literally take twice as long.

Not in any roll20 game I've played. combat is just as fast theatre of the mind style, or grid style (provided the DM has a map prepared. if he has to draw the map, then yeah it takes longer).

[Kryx]

I don't get where people think Roll20's combat runs at the speed of tabletop.
Combat takes twice as long with Roll20. No exaggeration. Same group of guys, similar fights. 15 minutes at the table, half an hour in Roll20.
Twice as long.
My experience is that roll20 combat on a grid is twice as fast as tabletop. The only issue I have with roll20 is speaking over one another, but that just comes w/ experience.

On roll20 the map and DYnamic lighting is already setup by the DM.

On tabletop you have to continuously draw everything.

[Stan]

The DM has to have a paid account but Roll20 with line of site and dynamic lighting is better then tabletop in some ways. Each player's screen shows what their character would see given the lighting sources and objects blocking views. Dungeons feel much more constricted if you can't see around the corners and many things hard to see (dim light) or out of the light altogether.

It takes a while to learn to set up dynamic lighting and I don't use it all the time but it is very cool.

[asorel]

The DM has to have a paid account but Roll20 with line of site and dynamic lighting is better then tabletop in some ways. Each player's screen shows what their character would see given the lighting sources and objects blocking views. Dungeons feel much more constricted if you can't see around the corners and many things hard to see (dim light) or out of the light altogether.

It takes a while to learn to set up dynamic lighting and I don't use it all the time but it is very cool.

The DM can play for free as well as the players. Dynamic lighting and a few other perks exist with the premium version, but it's not required.

[Stan]

The DM can play for free as well as the players. Dynamic lighting and a few other perks exist with the premium version, but it's not required.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant you had to pay to get the dynamic lighting, but only the DM has to pay for everyone to benefit.

[Yuki Akuma]

Obviously you should use Tabletop Simulator (http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/) for that real table flipping experience when things go wrong.

[Totema]

I'll concur with the Roll20 suggestions, since I'm a big fan of theirs too, but if you try to go full-on theatre of the mind style, you really only need a chat client. And perhaps a dice roller.

[Gritmonger]

I don't get where people think Roll20's combat runs at the speed of tabletop.
Combat takes twice as long with Roll20. No exaggeration. Same group of guys, similar fights. 15 minutes at the table, half an hour in Roll20.
Twice as long.
And now if you're going to factor in newbies to Roll20 on top of that, I can pretty much guarantee that it will literally take twice as long.

I have found this to be anything but my experience.

Early on, we figured out how to macro the character sheets to buttons tied to tokens - as a GM, I can go ahead and during my prep code in GM-only descriptions of what's going on and all the rolls necessary - then at game time, I click on the token I need, click the attack, target the player, and presto - rolls done.

I got dynamic lighting - and they recently added restricting token movement by lighting as well, which, for a dungeon crawl, is awesome. No more slowly drawing out a map - you can build it ahead of time, put in the "walls" you want to obstruct light, and they obstruct movement as well... and add other lighting effects.


Since things are layered, I put things I need ahead of time (trap notes, trap icons, staged encounters) on the DM layer, and just port them to the token layer when the poo hits the air mover.

It has saved me SOO much time in setting up a combat, and in running one.

[Rhun]

I'd say roll20 hands down. With sub, you can get dynamic lighting and API for more advanced stuff, or you can just stick to the basics. I use mumble for voice, never really tried roll20's. I've tried maptools in the past and found it to be powerful but way to many headaches to be worth it. I found myself playing tech support more than D&D with maptools.

Roll20 is very easy to learn and use(not counting the API, but there are plenty of helpful people in the forums), and you can give everyone their own character sheets that are part of the roll20 campaign. The character sheets also have macros already created for most of the rolls you'll be doing. As a GM I also created generic initiative, attack, save, and skill macros for the players. They just click their token, then at the top of the page, the macros show up.

Roll20 pros:

user friendly
easy to learn
can quickly search for and add music, sound effects, and tokens to campaign
can drag and drop images from your PC to your campaign
browser based(minimal technical knowledge needed)
online character sheets built into the campaign
players have access even if you're offline


Roll20 cons:

monthly fee for advanced features
advanced api can be confusing

[Taejang]

Seems like the majority prefers roll20, but a couple other names were thrown out that I can investigate on my own as well. I really appreciate the suggestions, guys!

As for the duration of combat, we use a grid right now. I'll have to see if it is the same, faster, or slower than at a table for us. Sounds like the macros might help compensate for other slowdowns. I can also imagine if the group is large it might cause more issues across the 'net than in person, but having not played any 'net games that is pure speculation.

Again, my thanks!

[Myzz]

I'm a cheap SOB atm being a poor teacher and all...

My group when we started our current campaign was based in 3 states. We used to all live within a few miles of each other...

We use google plus to face chat/play and use the apps on there like:

-Scoot and Doodle - I can pre draw up maps then share with everyone and they can draw on it as well, to show where and how they move through an area...

-Dice Roller - puts dice results on screen, allows adding text to screen

-other apps exist that might cover other functions you desire as well


Have never tried roll20, though...

[Rallicus]

Have never tried roll20, though...

You should really consider it.

I was hesitant to try it at first, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?245973-No-longer-will-we-need-play-by-posts!&p=13377658#post13377658) but it's pretty amazing. You can do everything you're doing in Google+ already and then some, all in one program.

For DMs it lessens the work load significantly. And it makes map making so incredibly easy... as an example, this took me roughly 15 minutes, most of which was spent aligning the walls. You just type in "couch," "chairs," "bed," etc and it'll pop up tokens for you. Easy as that, don't even need to upload them (and none of them count towards your image limit). But then there's also the option to upload your own personal stuff, such as the edited BBEG werewolf's pelt I added underneath the couch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/Rallard88/marlgrove_home.png

Players can also draw on and interact with the map, just like Scoot and Doodle. Thankfully my players are pretty mature and only sometimes draw phallic symbols on my maps.

It's ironic that I was once groaning about the mediocrity of this VTT, but now I'm gunning for it adamantly. If it can change my opinion so much that I'm willing to pay the premium fee for it (which gives me little more than dynamic lighting, an admittedly cool but ultimately gimmicky addition), then what's to lose by trying it out?

[Psikerlord]

I'll concur with the Roll20 suggestions, since I'm a big fan of theirs too, but if you try to go full-on theatre of the mind style, you really only need a chat client. And perhaps a dice roller.
This is true, but I find roll20 is still useful even for ToTM style - presenting pictures, dice rolling, macros for monster attacks, common damage rolls, etc (that I edit on the fly).

.... Also for the occasional wanting to draw a quick map, if things just get too confusing!

I pay for a mentor subscription on roll20, $10/month, but only because I dont want to wait for the improved dice roller. I dont use dynamic lighting at all

[Stan]

Since things are layered, I put things I need ahead of time (trap notes, trap icons, staged encounters) on the DM layer, and just port them to the token layer when the poo hits the air mover.



Yea, I use this quite a bit. I can see the item so I remember that it's there instead of remembering half an hour later they were supposed to encounter it. Right click, choose layer, and it appears before their eyes.

Searching for objects and maps is pretty easy or you can import stuff you have. For battle maps, I often find one close enough in a minute, then add other random objects in a minute or two.

One cool thing about online vs tabletop is I can have things in the scene without specifically pointing them out. If you say, 'oh yea, there's a pair of scissors in the hay stack." they think it must be important. If it's just laying there, it's up to them to notice it. I had an NPC, run by a friend, who wanted to join the group and was sort of stalking them. He logged in and started moving among them. After a few minutes while they were busy searching, they suddenly realized there were more in the group than there was supposed to be.

[Kryx]

I had an NPC, run by a friend, who wanted to join the group and was sort of stalking them. He logged in and started moving among them. After a few minutes while they were busy searching, they suddenly realized there were more in the group than there was supposed to be.
This is fantastic!

Though we use video so it'd be apparent right away.

[Stan]

This is fantastic!

Though we use video so it'd be apparent right away.

We do too. They were so absorbed figuring out everything around them, that they didn't notice an extra character.

[Aurthur]

I'm also on the Roll20 bandwagon. Some advanced options (if you go subscribe) for the GM include access to the API system. There are already pre-built APIs you can import which allow you to:


Import 4E characters from the Insider (includes pre-built spell/action buttons, hp totals, surges, etc)
Import Insider monsters (again, with ability macros pre-written)
Dynamically give loot rewards
Random encounter generators


And much more... For my 4E game, it's actually far far quicker to create a map, drop a few monsters in it and populate them than it would be at the table. The longest part is actually finding the monsters that meet the theme/level/motif/etc than the construction part (once you get familiar).

Roll20 also has a very active community and several solutions for common roleplaying scenarios/questions. In a 5e game I'm in, the 5e journal character sheet pre-does your macros for you after you input all your stats.

Don't get me wrong, it's not perfect...but it sure makes my remote games a heck of a lot easier than normal. Through in great Google Hangouts integration and you have a pretty successful package.

YMMV.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

I've tried Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds as a player, and they're both nice. Fantasy grounds has a more tactile feel to it, but they are both good.

I also found either program to be much slower than in-person play, with half as much ground covered per session when playing online. A lot of that has to do with a lack of mastery with the systems, for both the players and DM, leading to a lot of lag between saying what we want to do and actually making it happen. Also group discussion is slowed, with everyone pausing a lot to allow others to speak, or confusion over who should be talking etc.

Still great systems and worth trying. They have distinct advantages over pencil&paper for things like tracking lots of mooks, pulling in outside resources (sounds, images), gradually revealing the map, etc.

The Roll20 5e character sheet is nice, and Fantasy grounds has 5e modules available, giving in-system access to the PHB or spell lists.

[Submortimer]

I run and also play in a couple games done through Google Hangouts. It's very "Theatre of the Mind", but it works perfectly.

[Myzz]

I'd love to do Roll20, but I access internet through schools internet and roll20 is blocked...

[Taejang]

I'd love to do Roll20, but I access internet through schools internet and roll20 is blocked...
If you don't mind the research, you can bypass with a proxy or VPN. With power, however, comes responsibility. Make sure you get your work done, don't bypass in class, and don't do anything troublesome (like pirating). That way, if your school officials ever find out they probably won't care. I know I used a proxy at my university to browse gaming sites between classes, and I never had any issues with the administration, but I didn't exactly tell the world what I was up to and I still got my junk done.

Take note that using proxies or VPNs can slow your connection, which may make it difficult to video chat for roll20 games. And as with any internet activity, there are also security concerns.

I'm not sure on the forum's rules for this instance, and this isn't the thread for a discussion on it anyway; there isn't anything wrong with using a proxy or a VPN, but bypassing school restrictions could be considered "bad behavior," so... yeah. You'll have to do your own research.

[Yagyujubei]

I don't get where people think Roll20's combat runs at the speed of tabletop.
Combat takes twice as long with Roll20. No exaggeration. Same group of guys, similar fights. 15 minutes at the table, half an hour in Roll20.
Twice as long.
And now if you're going to factor in newbies to Roll20 on top of that, I can pretty much guarantee that it will literally take twice as long.

this is so backwards compared to my experience....how could combat possibly go slower when rather than adding modifiers and doing all the math in your head it's completed in less than a second with the push of a button?

Like I don't even....what is taking you and your friends so much longer online? I personally find it to be so so much faster than when we play live


EDIT: oh and anyway to OP, r20 is amazing for facilitating character sheets and rolling with macros and what not and the map tool works really well for grid based play once you get used to it. plus it's easy to go online and find pre-made maps to use rather than building your own as well.

[Totema]

this is so backwards compared to my experience....how could combat possibly go slower when rather than adding modifiers and doing all the math in your head it's completed in less than a second with the push of a button?

Like I don't even....what is taking you and your friends so much longer online? I personally find it to be so so much faster than when we play live


EDIT: oh and anyway to OP, r20 is amazing for facilitating character sheets and rolling with macros and what not and the map tool works really well for grid based play once you get used to it. plus it's easy to go online and find pre-made maps to use rather than building your own as well.

Well, in my experience, it's because being online is inherently more distracting than being at a table. Often I've had my friends take forever on their turns, only for us to find out that they were watching a video or reading Twitter or something. It depends on your players, though, and if you design the sessions to be really dynamic you can also curb it that way.

[Garimeth]

Well, in my experience, it's because being online is inherently more distracting than being at a table. Often I've had my friends take forever on their turns, only for us to find out that they were watching a video or reading Twitter or something. It depends on your players, though, and if you design the sessions to be really dynamic you can also curb it that way.

Another vote for Roll20. Also Roll20 combat is not slow unless the DM let's it be. I expect my players to make quick decisions and have their abilities macroed. Also, the VOIP sucks, so we just use Mumble. For ToTM encounters I just put them on the world map or a landscape picture, for the in the weeds stuff, I may make a battle map, most of the time I use a scratch page and make a fast map and use pre-set up tokens. I give every player a "journal" handout to take notes or keep track of the party's treasury etc. Roll20, IME, greatly speeds up play.

The only exception is the above. I have had a player play League of Legends while we were gaming, or have to AFK for family stuff all the time, and what have you. The LoL player got kicked from the group. Ain't Nobody Got Time For That!

[Stan]

Well, in my experience, it's because being online is inherently more distracting than being at a table. Often I've had my friends take forever on their turns, only for us to find out that they were watching a video or reading Twitter or something.

I really hate that crap. It can even happen at the table, with people checking their phone every 2 minutes. I get little enough play time as it is and don't to waste it while someone sees if anyone responded to their tumblr post. Luckily, most of the people I currently play with are more into it and pay attention.

I think this issue is exacerbated by the fact the D&D combat (and most rpgs) is set up for each player to take a discrete turn and then wait for their turn to come around again. Some players drift off and don't pay attention when it's not their turn. It's extra annoying has they have to ask what's going on or they miss things when declaring their actions (like to trying to kill a monster that's already dead).

[Knaight]

I really hate that crap. It can even happen at the table, with people checking their phone every 2 minutes. I get little enough play time as it is and don't to waste it while someone sees if anyone responded to their tumblr post. Luckily, most of the people I currently play with are more into it and pay attention.

It's irritating in both cases, but I will say that online games are particularly susceptible. Then there's the inevitable difficulties with voice chat, and the vastly increased possibility of someone getting interrupted by someone who is face to face - there's way more locations at once for this to happen in, and people are much more likely to interrupt someone on a computer than a group doing a thing.