What would an apple sell for in 5e?

[Alste26]

Hi me and my group recently decided to bevome merchants in our campaign. We had the plan to buy an orchard of appletrees and grow apples magically with certain druid spells. And therefore the question our group have what would apples cost in 5e? (be it crates or single apples)
Help with this would be appreciated.

(hope this was not too silly to ask)

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

A loaf of bread is 2 cp. So a single apple could sell for 1 cp. But if the market is small you might quickly flood it if you're mass producing a single product, so prices would quickly go even lower. But if you took them to a larger market where apples are rare, maybe you get a bit more. Even then, you'd saturate the demand after a while.

[jazzymantis]

You should probably also look into value added products, like cider. You could also sell to markets that might want fruit more than others, like sailors that don't want scurvy. I would say that it takes about 10lbs of apples to make one gallon of cider.

I would sell 1 apple for a copper in a standard market, and a gallon of cider from somewhere between 5 silvers to 30 gold depending on how proficient/etc your brewer is.

[calebrus]

I would say that it takes about 10lbs of apples to make one gallon of cider.

One bushel of apples (approximately 42 lbs or so) makes 2-3 gallons of cider, so it's closer to 17 lbs of apples per gallon.

[Studoku]

You should probably also look into value added products, like cider. You could also sell to markets that might want fruit more than others, like sailors that don't want scurvy. I would say that it takes about 10lbs of apples to make one gallon of cider.

I would sell 1 apple for a copper in a standard market, and a gallon of cider from somewhere between 5 silvers to 30 gold depending on how proficient/etc your brewer is.
If you're going into the alcohol business, I suggest magically enhanced swarms of bees so you can make mead.

The bees are also good for pollination and will deter people from stealing the apples.

[Grek]

I dunno, I feel like 1cp is a lot for a single apple. A loaf of bread is 2cp, but is more than twice as much food as one apple. Maybe 2 per cp?

[Santra]

My group has pretty much always had a bushel of apples as 1g
48lbs to a bushel = 126 medium apples(roughly) = about 0.793 copper per apple

[themaque]

I dunno, I feel like 1cp is a lot for a single apple. A loaf of bread is 2cp, but is more than twice as much food as one apple. Maybe 2 per cp?

If you're money making scheme requires the creation of the haypenny, you may need to re-think your idea.

However, I love it when players go "Let's forget this adventuring nonsense, I wanna be a farmer!"

[JNAProductions]

How are you harvesting the apples? Because if I can make a suggestion, the Awaken spell seems like a great way to make a permenant, tireless, effective labor force and security. Just treat them well.

[Eloel]

How are you harvesting the apples? Because if I can make a suggestion, the Awaken spell seems like a great way to make a permenant, tireless, effective labor force and security. Just treat them well.

Eh, while at it, awaken the trees so they collect their own apples.

[JNAProductions]

Yes. That's your labor force. That is exactly what I meant.

Relatedly, can you awaken bees and teach them to brew cider on their own?

And I think I'm going to do this just to fmess with my DM. Druids are boss.

[Alste26]

Thanks every one for your help. And for your brilliant ideas. Definitely going to do applerelated products for a while. Maybe some applepie? Oh and by the way have an apple on the house ;)

[JNAProductions]

Have some Goodberries on hand at the apple store and sell them like candy. They're basically free to make, costing only a spell slot.

And if you're willing to be a bit shady... Well, wait for a storm, and then Call Lightning on an opposing apple orchard should do wonders for monopolization.

Also, question-what spells are you planning on using for faster growing and better apples?

Edit:

Mercantile Druid Spells-Spells that can be sold as goods, rather than services

Cantrips
Mending

1st Level
Create Water
Goodberry

3rd Level
Plant Growth

4th Level
Stone Shape

5th level
Awaken
Wall of Stone

[Yuki Akuma]

Protip: plant apple seeds and use Plant Growth to quickly grow the trees they produce to test out various types of apples. Then clone the good ones.

Apple seeds never produce the same variety of apple as their parent. Apples are weird.

[goto124]

I thought you guys were trying to sell an iPhone for some reason.

[JNAProductions]

Psh. An Apple Product would be worth the metal it's made of. No internet connection, no phone connection, no apps, no music, not even a way to charge it-and that's assuming magic doesn't just wreck the internal workings like in Dresden Files.

At least it's shiny.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Couldn't you use Speak With Plants instead of Awaken and just command the trees to shed their fruit? Speak with Plants is a first-level spell, so it would almost certainly be more efficient, provided your speaker were on-hand at the orchid.

[JNAProductions]

That should work, though it's DM-dependent.

It's also only a 30' radius and does not add any security, so what I'd do is use that (and manual harvesting) to build up finances, then start Awakening trees for a more permenant solution.

In addition, try this:

TTT
TAT
TTT

T=Tree
A=Awakened Tree

If the Awakened tree can reach the others, you can fully automate your harvesting 9 times faster and more cheaply.

[Yuki Akuma]

provided your speaker were on-hand at the orchid.

???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Flor_de_Orqu%C3%ADdea_-_Orchid_Flower.JPG

What do orchids have to do with this

[JNAProductions]

It's another product, of course! Accelerated growth beautiful flowers for your fine noble ladies, to be sold to knights, princes, performers, kings, barons, dukes, and all manner of courtly and chivalrous gentlemen.

[Inevitability]

That should work, though it's DM-dependent.

It's also only a 30' radius and does not add any security, so what I'd do is use that (and manual harvesting) to build up finances, then start Awakening trees for a more permenant solution.

In addition, try this:

TTT
TAT
TTT

T=Tree
A=Awakened Tree

If the Awakened tree can reach the others, you can fully automate your harvesting 9 times faster and more cheaply.

I wonder if that would traumatize the tree. I mean, in a certain way, it is pulling off parts of vegative congeners and giving them to people wanting to eat those parts...

[JNAProductions]

They're meant to be eaten. The issue I see with the TAT formation is that it makes the tree alone. You might want to do something like

TTTTT
TTATT
TAAAT
TTATT
TTTTT

instead so that way each tree has several friends to talk(?) to and doesn't become morose and filled with ennui.

[Thanatos 51-50]

???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Flor_de_Orqu%C3%ADdea_-_Orchid_Flower.JPG

What do orchids have to do with this

It could, theoretically, be a mistake. An error. Possibly typographical in nature.
Orchard. Sorry.

[Yuki Akuma]

Nonsense. Nobody makes mistakes on the Internet. We're all perfect.

[DDogwood]

Doesn't the DMG have rules for player-run businesses? Something like "If you spend x days of downtime doing this, you'll get y XP and gold"? Because that's what I'd want to do with this.

If you have to figure out what a single apple will sell for, you are better off rolling kobolds for spare change or putting away D&D and pulling out Papers & Paychecks.

I love player-run businesses, but I find they're the most fun when they generate xd6 gps per month and create adventure opportunities (Cletus the Swine Druid is stealing our apples! We need to find him in the dungeon hidden below his hog shed and stop this nefarious agricultural espionage!)

[JNAProductions]

It has... Well, technically rules, but they just don't really work. It fails miserably at making money, and can cost you money constantly with a few bad rolls.

Personally, I'd love to play economics in a fantasy setting. I don't know why, but (ab)using the magic and setting for business just seems like great fun.

[Mellack]

They're meant to be eaten. The issue I see with the TAT formation is that it makes the tree alone. You might want to do something like

TTTTT
TTATT
TAAAT
TTATT
TTTTT

instead so that way each tree has several friends to talk(?) to and doesn't become morose and filled with ennui.

I am pretty sure that is unnecessary. I read Awaken to give the plants the ability to move. Basically you make a tree into a treant. So they can move themselves around the orchard and join groups or be solitary as they desire.

[JNAProductions]

Yup. Not even AFB and I make that mistake. 20' move speed.

They don't need sleep, so I wonder how many trees could be harvested by one awakened tree...

[Thanatos 51-50]

They're meant to be eaten.

Not always.
Fruit is meant to carry the seeds of a plant to different location so that the seed may grow into a new plant. It's basically a plant egg.

Only some seeds are designed to be able to survive through a digestive tract, and I don't know if apples fit the bill. Plus, humans tpyically throw the apple's core (the bit with the seeds) away in locations where they cannot sprout new trees, while depriving the seed of the protective covering and early sustenance by consuming the meat of the fruit.
You'd be having a sentient apple tree performing abortions so other creatures can eat the fetuses.

[JNAProductions]

Core the apples, save the seeds, plant them or give them back to the Awakened trees.

Turn the apples into cider, sauce, pies, jams, jellies, preserves, anything that will can be made from apples and will last.

Profit.

Edit: Get the Awakened trees to core the apples. Saves you time and guarantees that the seeds will be used properly. A happy tree is a productive tree.

[DDogwood]

It has... Well, technically rules, but they just don't really work. It fails miserably at making money, and can cost you money constantly with a few bad rolls.

Personally, I'd love to play economics in a fantasy setting. I don't know why, but (ab)using the magic and setting for business just seems like great fun.

In defense of the 5e business rules, that's more or less how business works in real life ;)

As far as playing economics in fantasy settings - I suggest looking at Autarch's Adventurer, Conqueror, King System. It's based on the old Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert game, but the whole economic system is rewritten from the ground up to support PCs running businesses, owning castles and domains, and taking high-risk, high-profit caravans across monster-infested wilderness. It's a very cool game (my go-to old-school system) and I haven't seen another RPG that holds a candle to its economic systems.

[xyianth]

Are you the only adventurers in your campaign setting? If not, why aren't other druids already doing this? Is there any reason to assume that market forces haven't already accounted for the fact of magic?

Basically, if this is a campaign world where you have unique talents, then sure go ahead and corner the market on apples and apple related products. If you are just one among many druids in the world, wouldn't the world already have plenty of magic-enhanced farms/orchards?

Don't get me wrong, I love campaigns like this. (The whole save the world from BBEG-du-jour gets boring after awhile.) Some good combinations for running magic enhanced businesses are:

knowledge cleric 2/conjurer wizard 7: use minor creation for a tool, use knowledge of the ages for proficiency with the tool, then use fabricate for mass production
oathbreaker paladin 9/warlock 5: use pact magic to create hordes of undead as a cheap labor/security force (lore bard 6/warlock 5, wizard 5/warlock 5 also work)
knowledge cleric 17/great old one warlock 3: be the ultimate detective/inquisitor.
conjuror wizard 2/eagle totem barbarian 6: take the keen mind feat and scout huge areas then conjure perfect maps, copy them for sale/request.

[VeliciaL]

It's another product, of course! Accelerated growth beautiful flowers for your fine noble ladies, to be sold to knights, princes, performers, kings, barons, dukes, and all manner of courtly and chivalrous gentlemen.

Then you awaken the flowers and teach them to sing love songs...

[Joe the Rat]

I wonder if that would traumatize the tree. I mean, in a certain way, it is pulling off parts of vegative congeners and giving them to people wanting to eat those parts...

"Hey, how'd you like it if we picked your apples?!"
... I really wish my players would stop throwing out quotes like this before I set up the referential encounter.

Something to remember is that at some point those apples would fall off on their own. There's a certain point at which, if you don't want a Soylent Green Apple rebellion, you could presume that they are ready to be picked. They're just sort of hanging out, rusting on the vine (yes, I'm making a mixed fruit metaphor).

I'm sure you could find a way to humanely manage an orchard. Treant your produce well.

[SaintRidley]

They're meant to be eaten. The issue I see with the TAT formation is that it makes the tree alone. You might want to do something like

TTTTT
TTATT
TAAAT
TTATT
TTTTT

instead so that way each tree has several friends to talk(?) to and doesn't become morose and filled with ennui.

Only in the Playground do we worry that our trees might become morose and filled with ennui.

[Tvtyrant]

I like the idea of treant appletrees, but I don't think most orchards are capable of buying a caster's services, and most casters probably don't want to buck apples.

Although Johnny Awakenseed is a cool concept for a legendary NPC...

[Logosloki]

Awaken a tree, train it in the ways of druiding, have awakened tree overseers who eventually can awaken other trees.

[JNAProductions]

You'd need to lure goblins and kobolds into it so it could gain levels. No Mentor feat or anything like that. (Plus it needs money.)

[warty goblin]

I wonder if that would traumatize the tree. I mean, in a certain way, it is pulling off parts of vegative congeners and giving them to people wanting to eat those parts...

You don't have to worry about the apples; the fruit is essentially a bribe for some enterprising animal to eat in the first place. What you do have to worry about is springtime, when the responsible orchardist sharpens his saw and pruning hook, and then goes and cuts off a quite large number of branches from every tree on the place. If hewing off a stack of limbs isn't good enough for you, there's also bud pruning. That's where you encourage a bud to grow by cutting off a strip of bark just above it, which blocks the flow of growth-suppressing hormones from the terminal bud on the branch. Basically you partially flay the tree to encourage something of an insurrection in the natural hierarchy of growth.

All of which is very necessary to maintaining a healthy tree with good air circulation. And then you've gotta thin the fruit as well, otherwise most apples overbear and you get lots of miserable little apples. Plus the weight of the fruit can damage the tree.

[JNAProductions]

It's for their health, right?

Explain that. Awakened trees aren't dumb, so make sure they understand what's needed for them to be healthy in their initial charmed phase so they're okay with it later.

[VeliciaL]

What happens when the trees unionize though?

[JNAProductions]

Produce Flame sounds like an excellent strike breaker.

[warty goblin]

It's for their health, right?

Explain that. Awakened trees aren't dumb, so make sure they understand what's needed for them to be healthy in their initial charmed phase so they're okay with it later.

Not entirely. Some pruning is to keep the tree from growing in weak, easily damaged, ways. This is particularly true early in a tree's life (so first five or seven years for an apple on dwarf rootstock, a lot longer for a full size), but a mature tree is pretty much in the shape it's going to be for the rest of its healthy life. At that point the vast majority of pruning is mostly done so the tree produces a smaller number of larger, more attractive fruit. Which is really not particularly in the tree's best interest. Bearing a lot of really small apples works just fine for the tree, since it means more seeds and more chances for successful reproduction.

Basically it's like if somebody rolled up to your front door every spring and sawed off one of your arms so you'll be too busy growing scar tissue and a new arm to have too much sex. And then came back a couple months later and started beheading any excess offspring you'd had anyway. For a full sized apple tree, this is every spring for the next hundred years or so.

[SaintRidley]

If the trees want to unionize, I see no reason to stop them. They have rights too.

[Mrmox42]

The weirdness factor of this thread is only eclipsed by its fun factor. :smallsmile:

We once played a group of low-level types, who were managing a castle and the grounds around it, while the REAL owners and heroes were out saving the world.
This became a very memorable campaign, with us managing the ecomony, handling the grumpy peasants and beating off the occasional orc raiders and rampaging Hill Giant.
Oh yes, and dealing with the cursed items that the REAL heroes had stored in the Lead Room in the basement.

We called it ‘Domestic D&D’.

[goto124]

You guys were also playing the real heros in a separate campaign, right?

[Thanatos 51-50]

You guys were also playing the real heros in a separate campaign, right?

PALADIN: I seal the Overlord in a jar!
CLERIC: No, wait! don't so that! Can you imagine the headache for Herbert the Housecarl in our other game? And what about that new maid, Belinda? She's always going into the Cursed Items Locker. One day, she's going to break something!

[Battlebooze]

You should probably also look into value added products, like cider. You could also sell to markets that might want fruit more than others, like sailors that don't want scurvy. I would say that it takes about 10lbs of apples to make one gallon of cider.

I would sell 1 apple for a copper in a standard market, and a gallon of cider from somewhere between 5 silvers to 30 gold depending on how proficient/etc your brewer is.

Oh yea, don't sell apples, sell apple cider! It will take longer to get a product, but assuming the cider is good you should have a much more valuable and portable product. The problem with apples is they rot and aren't worth much by weight. Cider won't go bad for years...

[Battlebooze]

The weirdness factor of this thread is only eclipsed by its fun factor. :smallsmile:

We once played a group of low-level types, who were managing a castle and the grounds around it, while the REAL owners and heroes were out saving the world.
This became a very memorable campaign, with us managing the ecomony, handling the grumpy peasants and beating off the occasional orc raiders and rampaging Hill Giant.
Oh yes, and dealing with the cursed items that the REAL heroes had stored in the Lead Room in the basement.

We called it ‘Domestic D&D’.

Ahem. You really didn't have to get that friendly with the Orcs. I suppose it did the trick though. :smallbiggrin:

[Mrmox42]

You guys were also playing the real heros in a separate campaign, right?

Yep. :smallsmile:


I suppose it did the trick though.

Yep :smallbiggrin:

[goto124]

PALADIN: I seal the Overlord in a jar!
CLERIC: No, wait! don't so that! Can you imagine the headache for Herbert the Housecarl in our other game? And what about that new maid, Belinda? She's always going into the Cursed Items Locker. One day, she's going to break something!

Pretty much what I was thinking about.

Mrmox42, did you post the logs for either/both campaigns somewhere?

[Joe the Rat]

What happens when the trees unionize though?
"There is unrest in the orchard
There is trouble with the trees..."

[JNAProductions]

Most seeds that get planted don't mature anyway. A smaller amount of seeds, planted and cared for properly, is better than oodles of seeds left uncared for.

And the money from the good apples goes towards land, fertilizer, portals (to the elemental plane of Earth, celestial realms, stuff like that) and all sorts of other goodies for the trees.

Plus they can be the stars of harvest festivals, if they're the social type.

[warty goblin]

Most seeds that get planted don't mature anyway. A smaller amount of seeds, planted and cared for properly, is better than oodles of seeds left uncared for.

And the money from the good apples goes towards land, fertilizer, portals (to the elemental plane of Earth, celestial realms, stuff like that) and all sorts of other goodies for the trees.

Plus they can be the stars of harvest festivals, if they're the social type.

If you're growing apples for fruit, you don't plant seeds. Apples don't breed true for their fruit, so if you want more trees producing a particular sort of fruit, you graft year old growth onto the roots of a different apple; usually one chosen for being a particular size. A sapient tree may in fact object to parts of it being chopped off to be glued onto the roots of other trees (which never get to grow leaves or fruit) as a sort of botanical Frankenstein's monster, all so you can have an entire orchard of clones all churning out the same fruit for your personal enrichment. Plus if you're grafting a full size scion onto dwarf rootstock, the clone will always be stunted and outgrow what its roots can structurally support, so they have to be staked lest they blow over. They also don't live as long, even when well cared for.

[JNAProductions]

So it looks like cider is the Awakened money maker. Who here is especially knowledgable on cider-making and what troubles would come with that?

[Thanatos 51-50]

I am surprised, amused, and a little bit afraid of the Playground's apparent wealth of off-hand knowledge regarding growing and maintaining an apple orchard and botany in general.

[Battlebooze]

From using my Google fu, it seems that making cider is similar to making wine. It requires mainly labor, barrels and a few inexpensive ingredients. Have your characters hire a brewer and a cooper and you should be in business. Six months aging seems like a minimal requirement, but doing that over the winter is easy enough.

Making booze sounds like a whole lot more fun than selling apples. You could always travel to promote your product, adventures ripe in the making!:smallsmile:

[JNAProductions]

Orchard plan!

Awakened trees tend to the orchard itself, coring apples and using the seeds as they see fit. They are provided with water and growth spells as needed to be happy, healthy, and productive.

Apples are brought to an Awakened beehive in the middle of the orchard, where the bees get a share of the cider (can bees live off cider? It seems like they should be able to, or if not, it should at least make them happy) in exchange for handling brewing. They also make some honeyed apples, jellies, jams, etc.

Products are stored in jars and barrels on a cart, with collection occuring as needed.

One tree is placed in charge of the rest, especially in matters of security, and taught in the ways of Druids so that one day it can man the orchard by itself (as soon as it can cast Awaken).

Money is spent on aquiring more land, and especially on making permenant portals to other arable lands. Feywild Cider, anyone? Or Earthen Jelly? Celestial Jams?

[Battlebooze]

Great, now you just need a name for the Cider and some cool slogans.

"Drink JNA Cider. Our magic is infused in every drop!"

Maybe a CPA rogue would be useful too. ;)

[xyianth]

I am surprised, amused, and a little bit afraid of the Playground's apparent wealth of off-hand knowledge regarding growing and maintaining an apple orchard and botany in general.

Never underestimate the ability of bored nerds* on the internet to carry an argument over the arbitrary.

* = No offense is meant by my use of this term of endearment, feel free to replace with your preferred descriptive term as desired.


Great, now you just need a name for the Cider and some cool slogans.

"Drink JNA Cider. Our magic is infused in every drop!"

Maybe a CPA rogue would be useful too. ;)

I don't think I would drink cider that was 'infused with their magic,' sounds sketchy. Also a CPA rogue sounds like a fantastic way to lose the business to shady backroom dealings. (Also gives me a wonderful character idea, imagine a hero that takes any job, no matter the size; then screws people on the fine print... wait that actually sounds like thief from 8-bit theater... and now I want to run an 8-bit theater campaign :smallsigh:)

[warty goblin]

So to get cider, you first need apple juice. This is traditionally done by first chopping or crushing the apples*. Then the apple mash gets tossed in a canvas bag, which is then put in a press and squeezed very hard. Catch the juice in an appropriate container - have several handy as it can pour out very fast at first - and ferment to get hard cider. The labor intensive parts are the harvesting, the chopping and the squeezing, with the last (and only the last) requiring a fair amount of physical strength. Which is to say I don't think you're going to get bees to do it. You're better off with a strongish human or a dwarf. Or a bear, if you've got one them around.

You also don't need to worry about destroying the apple seeds in this process. Even when the apples are tossed through a chipper-shredder, a very small number are broken, and pressing the mash does nothing at all to them. As a bonus after pressing the mash makes excellent food for pigs, chickens or other sorts of barnyard livestock.

*the finer the better. At my house we use a hammermill, which is built to turn arm-thick branches into woodchips, and will happily turn an actual arm into chunky salsa. When let loose on ripe fruit, the results are... dramatic.

I grew up tending a fruit orchard. It's not a subject that comes up a whole lot, but is an entirely joyful sort of work, and delicious.

[JNAProductions]

So to get cider, you first need apple juice. This is traditionally done by first chopping or crushing the apples*. Then the apple mash gets tossed in a canvas bag, which is then put in a press and squeezed very hard. Catch the juice in an appropriate container - have several handy as it can pour out very fast at first - and ferment to get hard cider. The labor intensive parts are the harvesting, the chopping and the squeezing, with the last (and only the last) requiring a fair amount of physical strength. Which is to say I don't think you're going to get bees to do it. You're better off with a strongish human or a dwarf. Or a bear, if you've got one them around.

You also don't need to worry about destroying the apple seeds in this process. Even when the apples are tossed through a chipper-shredder, a very small number are broken, and pressing the mash does nothing at all to them. As a bonus after pressing the mash makes excellent food for pigs, chickens or other sorts of barnyard livestock.

*the finer the better. At my house we use a hammermill, which is built to turn arm-thick branches into woodchips, and will happily turn an actual arm into chunky salsa. When let loose on ripe fruit, the results are... dramatic.

I grew up tending a fruit orchard. It's not a subject that comes up a whole lot, but is an entirely joyful sort of work, and delicious.

That's a shame. I like Awakening bees.

Crushing can be done by trees. Either get a hammermill or just let the trees use main force.

Same for pressing, because again, trees are strong. Have barrels on hand in one corner of the orchard for squeezing.

In exchange, the trees get increased growth, the seeds to do with as they want, and a fair share of the gold to be spent on whatever they want. Say, 60%, with some of that funding going towards Awaekening the rest of the trees and maintaining the orchard itself. The remaining 40% goes to the aspiring young(?) Druid running the place.

For bonus profit/utility, run an animal farm inside the orchard itself, using the mash for feed. The Awakened trees will keep the animals safe and sheperd them over to you, so long as the animals are taught not to disturb the trees, and horses, pigs, cows, all sorts of animal will drop valuable fertilizer directly on the trees.

For a small orchard, the whole thing could be started with a handful of apple seeds, a few barrels, and enough money to cast Awaken once. I'm going to go ahead and make an actual build for this.

Also, final note: Thanks, Warty Goblin, for the info.

Edit: It's up! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402800-The-Druid-Orchard-Manager&p=18933806#post18933806)

[warty goblin]

For bonus profit/utility, run an animal farm inside the orchard itself, using the mash for feed. The Awakened trees will keep the animals safe and sheperd them over to you, so long as the animals are taught not to disturb the trees, and horses, pigs, cows, all sorts of animal will drop valuable fertilizer directly on the trees.

So one thing one needs to be aware of with any agricultural endeavor is when things produce. Apples for instance produce in the late summer and early fall, with any given variety ripening in a very short period of time; maybe a week or so. Before that they are too green for good eating or juice, and after that they rot.The trees need tending over the summer - here handled by the trees being Awakened - but your crop basically shows up between the second week of August and the beginning of October.

If you're running animals, you need to feed at least the breeding stock year-round. Excess males tend not to need food past the fall, since after that you're eating them. But you're not going to feed livestock all year off of the mash from one apple orchard, even if you found a way to keep it from rotting. The traditional medieval solution for pigs was to run them in forests with a lot of nut bearing trees. A mature oak tree produces a staggering number of acorns, enough that pigs can get a lot of their nutrition from the accumulated mast. Chickens need fed grain or similar through the winter; they're grass and bug eaters and once those are dormant or dead they won't be able to forage in a northern climate. Cows and sheep can survive on the dead grass in the fields, but benefit enormously from hay and grain. Depending on your breed extra winter food can make the difference between a successful lambing/calving, and suffering lots of dead young, dead mothers, mothers without enough milk, and other unpleasantness. Particularly if you have snow for much of the winter, since the animals then have to dig for their food, which takes energy.

(You also absolutely want to keep the livestock out of the orchard for the most part. Sheep love nothing better than eating the bark off of fruit trees, and pigs both love to dig and to eat tree roots. Chickens are beneficial in an orchard, since they eat a lot of insects; including apple maggot, coddling moth and curculio, and it can be helpful to run sheep in an orchard for a few weeks at the end of the season to eat windfalls; which they'll go for before the bark. You'll also want to keep the mice, deer and assorted other wild creatures at bay; all of which can do a lot of damage to your trees. You're also generally better off composting your manure for a year or two before spreading it; pure animal dung is often nitrogen rich enough that it burns plants.)


For a small orchard, the whole thing could be started with a handful of apple seeds, a few barrels, and enough money to cast Awaken once. I'm going to go ahead and make an actual build for this.
Really, you're much better off starting with grafts. Plant apple seeds and there's no telling what you'll get, but there's a decent chance it won't taste good. Start with grafted trees, and you'll know just what to expect, in five or seven years when they start to bear fruit.


Also, final note: Thanks, Warty Goblin, for the info.
It's been my pleasure.

[JNAProductions]

Shame about the animals, but apples is where it is at. Ration the cider to sell it year long, so that way you get consistent income at a higher rate rather than one big burst.

Well, now all I have to do is convince my story-driven DM to give me a few years of economic downtime and Awakening. :P

[Zyzzyva]

That's a shame. I like Awakening bees.

I think, per Granny Weatherwax, that you'd have to work up to Awakening bees. Also, that that would be amazing.

[Mrmox42]

Mrmox42, did you post the logs for either/both campaigns somewhere?

Unfortunately not. In one campaign we were literally saving the world, armed with the mighty Rainbow Blades, and battling dragons, giants and - finally - gods. It was a classic over-the-top campaign.

The Domestic D&D was the complete opposite, but equally fun. We played a very diverse group, consisting of an Elf Rogue Exchequer (Who was in charge of taxation and bookkeeping), a Fighter Captain (Strongman in charge of the garrison), a Wizard Brewer (who brewed beer and potions), a Halfling Ranger (in charge of the stables and (of course) the kitchen) and a Pixie Druid Growmaster (who made everything grow).
We had to deal with:
Invading Orcs
Peasants demanding a great spring festival for the Onion God (!)
A drunken Hill Giant
Invasion of undead from the basement
An item in the Lead Room that caused a dimensional rift to open
An item in the Lead Room that caused the walls to bleed and the cobblestones to scream
Invasion from our neighboring lord
A visit from the King - and he expected to be very well fed
Locusts (lots)
A natural disaster, causing buildings and bridges to fall
Waking up and finding a new tower that had appeared overnight
Faulty potions, made by our Wizard
Wolves
Yetis
Peasants demanding less taxes and more spare time
Moles (bloody annoying)
A Dragon that wanted to use our castle as a nest

All this for a bunch of level 1-5 domestic adventurers.

Good fun :smallsmile:

[Spacehamster]

Maybe not fully on the topic of apples but, could you with spells like create water, plant growth, control weather and so on create a lush oasis area in the desert to use as a stronghold and if placed in a good spot the place could turn into a trade route shortcut where merchants stop by to restock. :)

[Mrmox42]

Maybe not fully on the topic of apples but, could you with spells like create water, plant growth, control weather and so on create a lush oasis area in the desert to use as a stronghold and if placed in a good spot the place could turn into a trade route shortcut where merchants stop by to restock. :)

I can't see why not.

And you COULD grow apples there.

[warty goblin]

I can't see why not.

And you COULD grow apples there.

Only if you started having magical winters there. Apples are temperate trees.

[Tvtyrant]

Only if you started having magical winters there. Apples are temperate trees.

They are in bags of ice all day.

[aspekt]

Wait. Is this the right forum for Ars Magica?

[Orvir]

Maybe not fully on the topic of apples but, could you with spells like create water, plant growth, control weather and so on create a lush oasis area in the desert to use as a stronghold and if placed in a good spot the place could turn into a trade route shortcut where merchants stop by to restock. :)

You would need a lot of create waters. One apple tree in a hot climate would probably need 50+ gallons of water a day.

[JNAProductions]

Control Water for an on-demand well?

[Narren]

I dunno, I feel like 1cp is a lot for a single apple. A loaf of bread is 2cp, but is more than twice as much food as one apple. Maybe 2 per cp?

Doesn't an apple cost about half as much as a loaf of bread in real life? Or am I just buying expensive apples?

[JNAProductions]

Oh yeah. That was the original question.

Depends, really. My family gets name-brand apples, but off-brand bread.

[jkat718]

Oh yeah. That was the original question.

Oh, yeah…

The cheapest you can buy apples for at Walmart is 10.1¢/oz (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nature-s-Delight-Fruits-Vegetables-Pink-Lady-U.S.-Extra-Fancy-Grade-Apples-3-Lb/11980008), whereas the cheapest bread is 45.3¢/oz (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ener-G-Light-Tapioca-Loaf-Bread-8-oz-Pack-of-6/22557223).

[Mrmox42]

I am getting flashbacks to Knights of the Dinner Table, when they played 'Farmer the Role Playing Game'-

[Kerilstrasz]

since you r into "fruit bussiness" consider get a trade rout to a seaport.
crews are in need of vitamins. they more commonly get citrus (lemons & oranges) but, if you have a low price, apples are a nice alternative.
so... 1 ship has about 10-30 crew. they will travel for about 1 month (mid distances). 30apples a day * 30 days = 900 apples. for 1 ship...

[JNAProductions]

Does Gentle Repose work on fruit? If so, that's a good idea.

[Battlebooze]

Does Gentle Repose work on fruit? If so, that's a good idea.

There is a crude joke there, but I'm not going to make it. Look, made my will save, rolled a 20.

[Eugoraton Feiht]

Wouldn't you be able to start an entire farm this way?

You could use the orchard to get it off the ground and then expand it into a mighty magical menagerie. Now brought to you by DruidWare. For all your home and adventuring needs. The Treants would be able to protect the farm as well.

Plus awakened bees make sense. You could even grow regular crops or hardy trees. Grow specific trees and crops. Use the awakened bee's to cross-pollinate specific plants and then see what you get from the results. Combine crops together until you have a super crop.

Have them harvest from specific flowers and you have specific brands of honey as well.

Plus who says you have to stop at Apple trees? Why not pears or peaches? Heck with the right party makeup you could have any kind of farm you wanted. Barbarian can tend to/ protect the animals. Paladin and cleric can assist in making sure everything stays healthy and uninjured. Druid can assist in all aspects of farm work. You could keep a fighter/ranger on hand for farm defense, have them double as hired help. Rogue/bard can be your Sales/Marketing team. Wizard and sorcerer have spells that can be brought to the table to, especially when it comes to planar travel to various kinds on plants.

I see that JNA has created a druid for this. Has anyone else worked on creating a party specifically for this idea? Like an entire player party who's sole quest was running the entire agricultural economic market?

[KorvinStarmast]

What happens when the trees unionize though?
They'll be in a rush to demand equal rights -- hatchet, axe, and saw bedamned! :smallbiggrin:

[MaxWilson]

Hi me and my group recently decided to bevome merchants in our campaign. We had the plan to buy an orchard of appletrees and grow apples magically with certain druid spells. And therefore the question our group have what would apples cost in 5e? (be it crates or single apples)
Help with this would be appreciated.

(hope this was not too silly to ask)

I'd guess that an apple would be a luxury good, but not extremely rare, so perhaps twice the price of a loaf of bread, or 2cp. I generally treat 1 gp as approximately equal to $50 to $100, so that's like a $1 to $2 apple, which seems about right to me.

If course, if you're selling in bulk, you might have to lower prices to sell your whole assortment. If you have a thousand apples, I'd probably offer you 5 to 10 gp for them all.

[Belac93]

This is now my favorite giantip thread.
What about an entire farm, where almost everything is awakened.

[Mrmox42]

Awakened palmtrees could be excellent guards, dropping coconuts on unsespecting trespassers.

[PoeticDwarf]

Three apples for 2cp is a fair deal.

[Joe the Rat]

Can you animate a dead tree?


They'll be in a rush to demand equal rights -- hatchet, axe, and saw bedamned! :smallbiggrin:
...yeah, we already went there.

"There is unrest in the orchard
There is trouble with the trees..."

[Broken Crown]

One thing to keep in mind: If an adventurer picks an apple, he can only sell it for half its market value.

[FabulousFizban]

One bushel of apples (approximately 42 lbs or so) makes 2-3 gallons of cider, so it's closer to 17 lbs of apples per gallon.

could i interest you in a super cider squeezy 6000? REASONABLE PRICES! GUARANTEED TO WORK! THIRST QUENCHING!