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Killmeo
2015-03-09, 01:28 PM
So about a month back I started a d&d 3.5 game with 3 friends with me as the DM. Most of us have played a bit before, but are fairly new. Now I wanted to make an epic adventure, a long game and so far that has worked: they started from lvl 1 and learned a lot of the homebrewed world/history and everyone has been having a great time.

Last time we played, we ran into a slight problem, though. The group so far is a lvl 7 Half-Orc Cleric, a lvl 6 Elf Sorcerer (died once) and a lvl 7 Halfling Rogue/Avenger (that good-aligned Assassin). The Sorcerer enjoys the game a lot, he didn't mind dying, because he got to throw fireballs around before he died and save the day. The cleric started off as Chaotic Good, but due to his playing style I swapped it to CN. He gives me some trouble through his shenanigans, but the main issue is the rogue.

He feels like all he can do is just try to sneak attack and doesn't find his class all that interesting anymore. I can see him being a bit jealous of the spellcasters with flashy spells and more options, so I'm asking what could I do to make the game more fun for him? I'd like encounter ideas where they couldn't use their usual tactic "I charge in throwing fireballs" and had to rely the on the sneakiness and skills of their rogue. Also looking for some magic items, that could make his hero feel more flashy. I remember him being most jealous of the Sorcerer's high bluff skill (that the rogue never maxed) which allowed the sorcerer to talk himself out of sticky situations.

A big thanks in advance! :smallsmile:

Beta Centauri
2015-03-09, 01:50 PM
You could play 4th Edition. That gives every class a lot of fun options.

Try to make encounters about more than just dealing damage. Put in other challenges that they party must meet in order to be completely successful. Those challenges can involve skills that the rogue has more of, making that character the ideal one to handle them. Maybe there's an automatic trap that's peppering the PCs with crossbow bolts and the rogue is the best at climbing up to them and disarming them - or turning them on the enemy. Maybe there's a ritual going on that has front facing defenses and defenders, but the rogue can try to sneak around to get behind them and shut them down or just stop the ritual himself.

Other than that, talk to the player about what would make the game more fun for them, what it is they're looking for.

AxeAlex
2015-03-09, 02:03 PM
Hello there,

-Dungeons with some kind of alarm. An orc with a horn or a camp with a bell that needs to be sabotaged if the mission is to succeed. (Less the bad guys kills the hostages or the good guys be overwhelmed)

-Are they famous? If so, monsters could prepare to face them by getting potions or spells to protect them from fire. (Don't use too often, but it's fun once in a while to be challenged out of the comfort zone)

-A boss that has access to a lot of potions and is well-known to drink his way to victory, and will be really hard to take down unless the potions are first stolen.

-Cunning opponents are prepared to fight and have laid traps on the battlefield, use bows, and have cover that offers some kind of protection from fireballs. Charging will be risky, with all the traps, but careful progression, with the warrior holding a huge shield and the rogue disarming the traps will make the encounter a lot easier.

These are just examples, but the best way to help your rogue enjoy the game is sometimes putting a little tweak to some encounters, which will allow him to use some of his rogue skills to greatly benefit the party without feeling like it was specifically put there for him. The role of the rogue is to sabotage everything. So if your enemies have nothing to sabotage, he has nothing to do.

As soon as opponents have tactics and plans that give them the egde, the rogue can screw with those plans.

You should also avoid to build "rogue-only missions" during which the rest of the party has nothing to do.

Geddy2112
2015-03-09, 02:06 PM
Try to make encounters about more than just dealing damage. Put in other challenges that they party must meet in order to be completely successful. Those challenges can involve skills that the rogue has more of, making that character the ideal one to handle them.

Other than that, talk to the player about what would make the game more fun for them, what it is they're looking for.

This. Your sorcerer is a CHA based caster, and with maxed bluff he is probably outshining the rogue, but the rogue is gonna be a better diplomat, or at making threats, or using tons of other skills. With use magic device the rogue can copycat for scrolls and wands. Keep the sorcerer in mind too: his spells are more or less set so design encounters that he can't beat with his fixed spells. Maybe have a combat with hordes of things to fireball, but one big boss that is immune to fire for the rogue to fight.

Also keep in mind that magic grows exponentially in power, and non magic users grow linearly, so the rogue is gonna struggle to keep up in effectiveness behind a sorcerer and cleric.

BootStrapTommy
2015-03-09, 02:46 PM
Clerics are tier 1, sorcs are tier 2, while rogues are tier 4. There is an actual (significant) power gap between the others and him, so he is not unjustified.

My suggestion, let him retro actively gesalt his rogue levels with an NPC class of his choice. It will put him more toward their power levels.

veti
2015-03-09, 02:49 PM
I seem to say this a lot, but... Time pressure.

Spells are a limited daily resource; once the caster runs out, they have to rest. The rogue can keep on using his skills all day.

So give them challenges that need to be solved the same day. Don't let the cleric re-choose spells, and don't let the sorceror replenish them. Get them out of the mindset of just nova'ing everything, make them want to hoard their spell slots.

Obviously, give them all something to do. A horde of low-level mooks is perfect for soaking up a fireball slot, but a closed door? That's the rogue's domain, or should be. And on average, an adventure will contain a lot more doors than "neatly clustered crowds of 20 goblins".

Another approach is to give them loot that the rogue can use best, especially if he's maxed out his UMD skill.

Maglubiyet
2015-03-09, 03:42 PM
How about working with him to have a more balanced build. Maybe something exotic, like let him get the shadow walker template then get the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC.

Beta Centauri
2015-03-09, 04:34 PM
Just in case I wasn't clear, I'm talking about encounters that still involve combat, but which also have another component. Fights in movies and shows and stories usually aren't just slugfests, but have some other aspect that can't be figured out by hitting it.

And I also agree with time pressure. That's always good.