Ninja Troubles

[ZenoForce88]

Hello Playground! Once again I've arrived with a small issue that I would greatly appericate advice on. Soonish, I'll be starting an Usagi Yojimbo game, with a minor(and honestly unimportant) edit of not being anthropomorphic animals, for reasons unimportant, it changes nothing really just make the animal "races" into "Birth Signs". As usual I digresses, as the issue is Ninjas.

One of my players doesn't really like Samurai, and wants to be a ninja, no big deal the system covers being a ninja fairly well, and everyone else is fine with being ninjas(I have a rule: All Ninjas or No Ninjas, similar to my Star Wars Rule of All Jedi or No Jedi.) But the SAME player(and to a lesser degree the other players,) seems to have an issue with the whole, always looking over their shoulder, I must hide my ninja identity thing. The basic staple of being a ninja, being their stealth and the fact no one knows what to expect of them until it's to late. Not to mention they want to be in their super awsome Ninja garb at all times, because "what if surprise battles!?".

That's the issue on my players end, now the issues I am having, not tied to the players. Running a Ninja game is hard on my brain. Sure I could easily construct a Mission to Mission "Dungeon Crawl" type game, but we are roleplayers, The Role Before the Roll type thing, with a high importance on story. I'm honestly having trouble coming up with a Ninja Focused Game, and keeping story elements, rather then just going from Mission to Mission, with Narration between like the Video Game Tenchu Z. I've thought about going the "Naruto Type Village" route(Minus the Superpowers), but that feels like a cop out, and Naruto is honestly is Ninja in name only, in my own opinion.

So i leave it to you ladies and gentlemen of the Playground. What advice can you give me, so that I can craft an intresting Usagi Yojimbo Ninja Game Story for my players?

[Thrudd]

If you want to get "historical", ninjutsu was a set of skills and techniques that were studied by various warriors as an adjunct to their combat training. Stealth and infiltration, using concealed weapons and special gadgets that had multiple uses as tools or weapons, sneaky/dirty fighting tactics using conventional weapons and items, and wilderness survival skills. It's not like these people walked around in gangs wearing black masks, living in a hidden mountain fortress and having no ties to the outside world. They were normal samurai and warriors in the employ of various daimyo, who just happened to have "a particular set of skills" that their masters could call on if needed.

For the game, the characters would all have public identities and positions in society just like everyone else. Maybe even some of them with political involvement. But they might get called up from time to time by their lord, who has a special mission for them, spying or assassinating or infiltrating and stealing stuff, or acting as secret muscle when having openly armed warriors around would be inappropriate.
Or they could be ronin, for hire, selling their skills to whomever, and performing the same sorts of functions. Again, they would all have public identities, probably be known as ronin samurai.
What nobody would know is what sorts of hidden weapons they have up their sleeves, and when they were on missions they would probably mask themselves at some point so any witnesses could not bring down retribution on them afterwards.

"What if combat happens" is a non issue. Someone with ninja skills probably always has a concealed weapon or two on their person, even if they aren't samurai that are allowed to be armed pretty much at all times (though they probably would be).

The whole point is that they don't look like they are ready for a fight. If someone saw guys running around in full black ninja getup with swords strapped to their back and grappling hooks and claws, the jig would be up, so to speak. Ninja fail.

[ZenoForce88]

While I appreciate your comment, all you've done is said everything I've already said to them. I'm willing to dispense a degree of Historical accuracy for the "Rule of Cool" but I can only do that so far before they stop being Ninja, and become Powerless Naruto Knock Offs.

They want to be in the full Ninja Gear at all times, without having to change clothes, and can kept their weapons on them, with minimal worry of concealment(think the worst D&D Rogues Ever), and even if we were to go with a more Semi-Historically accurate Ninja types. I am having trouble coming up with a Sandboxish(because that's where our stories typically thrive.) game for it.

[Thrudd]

What do your players think ninja are/do? What kind of adventures are they expecting? Some kind of mystical fantasy stuff with demons and tengu and Shinto magic? That could work, if you wanted to throw out your previous concept for a campaign world.

Maybe you would need to create a world where ninja are not stealthy special forces, but are some kind of parallel warrior class to the samurai, that just come from a different culture and wear different garb, but are afforded the same public weapon bearing rights.
Their ninja outfits are just uniforms denoting their status as warriors, not having anything to do with concealing identities. They wouldn't attract any more attention than a normally garbed and equipped samurai would. They just use slightly different weapons and know a different form of martial arts? Maybe they use some magic powers instead of the pure martial ability of samurai?

Alternatively, run the world you want to, and let them act however they want. Have the people react as they normally would to fully combat garbed ninja walking around in broad daylight, and let the players deal with that. Maybe they think they can literally sneak everywhere unseen, at all times. Let them try, and let them face consequences when they inevitably fail. They will quickly be disowned by their lord or employers and then can figure out how to make a living as outcasts or bandits in the woods.

[ZenoForce88]

Hey you don't have to convince me, that they aren't all that "Ninja Smart". Though what you propose does make for something interesting.....

Though I am not allowing any real magic, at least not in the Players hands, that's set in stone. My own question, is if they are just an alternate Warrior Class Equal To(or just below/above) the samurai, what would be the point of their stealth skills?

EDIT: I belive my players are acting more on "Anime Awesome" Ninjas, like Ninja Scroll and similar series, over "The Shadows are my Allies" style.

[Thrudd]

If you are not running an anime magic campaign, then they need to be disavowed of that conception. You tell them what ninjas are in the world you are running, and then they can decide if that's really what they want to play.

If you redesign ninjas as an alternate warrior class, there would be no reason for their stealth skills, except perhaps as a tactical preference. Use the generic, movie/anime based misconception about samurai always fighting honorably, but ninja are pragmatic and do whatever it takes. Or Samurai are noble born aristocrat warriors, ninja are peasants fighting the system by taking power into their own hands. Samurai will bring troops up to the castle gates and challenge their enemy, ninja will try to sneak in and kill everyone in their sleep. So better not make an enemy of the ninja clan!

If it were me, I would stick to my world conception, and tell them what ninja are. If they don't like it, they don't need to play ninja, that is their choice.

[ZenoForce88]

typically I would agree with you, fully. But the Ninja thing is a matter of, "LET US BE NINJAS!" or No Game at all. I am very strongly against having No Game, because I've been pushing for us to play this system and at least a degree of this setting for YEARS.

My hands are tied and I have to find some type of Compromise, which is why I came to the forums.

[Thrudd]

Well, I guess you're designing a ninja scroll setting for them, then. Whatever they think ninjas are, make that a thing. They are powerful badasses who bow to no one, with varying skills and powers, and get drawn into the machinations of nobles and power brokers because they are sought for their skills. Less of a stealthy assassin/spy, more of a superhero that transcends the feudal system and lives by their own code. Some of them might be stealthy, but it isn't necessary. They will chop off the head of any mo'fo's that get in their way, regardless. Maybe they live in a mountain retreat and meditate all day, or maybe they live in town and hang out with geisha and drink wine. Nobody can tell a ninja where to live, or they'd get their head chopped off.

Edit: Or here's another setting possibility, based on movie/video game misconceptions. Ninjas live in secretive wilderness communities, on remote islands or in the mountains. There are various ninja clans that might each have different special skills, some clans have rivalries with others. Their existence is known, and they provide ways for people to contact them if they want to hire them for those special skills. People know that ninja exist and are somewhat used to seeing them individually or in small groups, especially in the villages close to their hidden clan hideouts. But the ninja have a code that nobody outside the clan can ever see their face, so they always wear masks and go by aliases when strangers are present. If anyone sees their face, that person has to die, or the ninja must die or be banished from the clan.

Samurai generally act haughty and treat ninja with contempt because they "lack honor", but usually are wary or fearful of their skills and tactics. They are called on to do the dirty work that samurai are "too good" for.

The game could involve intra clan politics, where the players are from one ninja clan, their rival clan is always plotting against them, they get drawn into the machinations and wars of daimyo that try to play the ninja clans against each other, or vice versa, the ninja manipulating the daimyo into trying to destroy their rivals, etc.

[JeenLeen]

I find myself agreeing with Thrudd. My first advice to you would be, similar to his, to tell them what ninjas are in this setting and help them realize they do not really want to play ninjas in this setting. However, if that would lead to no game at all, if the players will not budge, then you have to (or accept no game.)

However, they should have to compromise, too...

Maybe give a special ninja technique to quickly change clothes, like they have their ninja gear underneath their mundane clothes and their mask stuck in a pocket, so in a single action they can shift to ninja gear. As for weapons... eh, that is harder to justify with a degree of realism. Either have them be samurai in their mundane lives (and thus they can carry the big weapons publicly), or just handwave it. It's handwaved in most D&D when a random guy enters a bar with a greatsword. (Of course, regardless they can have some weapons secreted away.)

That might allow you to keep some of the setting you have in mind, while still letting them get their awesome ninja feel. (Of course, feel free to adjust as needed.) Both the GM and the players need to enjoy the game.

To have the compromise go smoothly, I'd recommend telling them what you were considering ninjas as being in your setting, how you perceive their views of ninjas, and that this is a compromise you think can make both of you happy.

[ZenoForce88]

I thank everyone for your advice, and suggestions. After pointing out a lot of things, including how much all of us suck at detailing environment, and how important knowing the environment is to stealth. As well as how Ninjas don't make for a very good sandbox game, if combined with our play style, they've all agreed to be Samurai instead of Ninja.