Unholy grace, power, toughness.

[Azrael9986]

I am looking for ways to get this as a Lich. Not all of them just one at most two would be more then enough to make me pretty powerful. anyway I know what each one does.

**Unholy**
Grace: deflection AC and saves based of Cha mod.
Power: to hit and damage buff based off Cha mod.
Toughness: HP from Cha mod X HD.

I was more interested in Grace then any of the others. We do plan to go into Epic level.

I know about Demi-liches. I know about the evolved undead template. Thy give okay bonuses but take away from my casting a little too hard for not enough gains. anywho I was curious if you guys knew anyway besides like home brewing something like a 3 level PrC to give me two of them or something.

EDIT: now that I think about it I should at least post race and class levels.
Human(child due to a feat I took that helps necromancy pretends to be a halfling at times.)
Cleric 6th
Lord of the damned 10th.
High Cha and wis as he is focused on the casting/rebuking part of the cleric and less on the melee.

Link bellow for child necromancer feat and Lord of the damned class.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tome_of_Necromancy_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29

[Blackhawk748]

Walker in the Waste turns you into a Dry Lich as its capstone, which gives you Unholy Toughness. From experience i can tell you having that much HP is awesome.

[Azrael9986]

What book is that in so I can look it over. I think I know what you are talking about. Sandstorm? idk.

Edit: I was right it was in sandstorm and it kinda is less then a normal Lich though. it takes damage from all water. so the jungles of Xendrik would kill him in a few mins with how much it rains in some parts. So I will pass on all water=holywater weakness.

[Blackhawk748]

Sandstorm is correct.

[Azrael9986]

Yuh but I edited above before you posted anyway it also oddly has a higher LA for having bigger weaknesses then the standard Lich seems like a odd thing. plus most of its abilities are dry environment related so it kinda loses a lot by not being in dry hot places.

[Blackhawk748]

Yuh but I edited above before you posted anyway it also oddly has a higher LA for having bigger weaknesses then the standard Lich seems like a odd thing. plus most of its abilities are dry environment related so it kinda loses a lot by not being in dry hot places.

Bugger, also theres a fairly good argument for not getting the LA as you get it as a class's capstone.

[Azrael9986]

I know but I have a class that is pretty much 10lvs to being a normal Lich. 6 levels to get to it so me being at lv 16 and already a Lich kinda really doesn't make me feel like going with the Dry Lich. Like I said above it kinda sucks if you are going wet places. Just forget about going underwater even as an undead. you die pretty fast as a Dry Lich to low level clerics with create water. I don't wanna give my DM ammo like that he can be a pain if you give him ways to mess you up that easy to get.

[Blackhawk748]

When i played one i got a ring of immunity to water, basically a ring of elemental immunity, so water didnt do anything to me. But ya it doesnt really fit your current build, however if LA buyoff is in play you can slap the Evolved Undead template on every 3 levels and then buy it off, simply rinse and repeat.

[torrasque666]

When i played one i got a ring of immunity to water, basically a ring of elemental immunity, so water didnt do anything to me. But ya it doesnt really fit your current build, however if LA buyoff is in play you can slap the Evolved Undead template on every 3 levels and then buy it off, simply rinse and repeat.
This requires having a group that can go 100+years between those levels. This tends to kill most groups.

[Blackhawk748]

This requires having a group that can go 100+years between those levels. This tends to kill most groups.

Thats a prereq? News to me, i just remember that being a recommendation i heard on here.

[Malimar]

If you've taken 10 levels in Walker in the Waste, anywhere you go is extreme desert, no matter what it was before you got there. The jungles of Xen'drik are going to have a hard time raining on you when they've been transformed to a desert by your very presence.


But ya it doesnt really fit your current build, however if LA buyoff is in play you can slap the Evolved Undead template on every 3 levels and then buy it off, simply rinse and repeat.

Do you often play campaigns that last very many in-game centuries? That's the time scale you're dealing with to acquire Evolved Undead once.

EDIT: Swordsage'd.

Also, though: I'd totally play a game that took place over many in-game centuries. That sounds like it could be awesome.


Thats a prereq? News to me, i just remember that being a recommendation i heard on here.

It's not listed amongst the template's prereqs, but the introductory text about Evolved Undead explains "When an intelligent undead creature survives for 100 years or more (or when the DM decides to create an undead monster with a twist), there is a 1% chance that [it acquires the template.] [...] Each additional 100 years of existence affords an additional 1% chance [...] plus an additional 1% chance for each previous evolution."

The "when the DM decides" bit gives you some leeway for the DM to give it to you without the wait if he's feeling super-generous, but that's barely a step above invoking Rule 0.

[Blackhawk748]

Ya just checked it, didnt realize that text was there, so that shoots that down, unless your DM is ok with you doing a ritual to get it or something.

[Azrael9986]

Okay well Like I said I don't like the weakness and the underwater thing still stands. as you cant dry up an ocean before the rest of the group dies of old age.

The evolved undead thing might be nice to snag once. for the built in fast healing and cha bonus. but thats about it. it really doesn't add all that much to the character.

+1 Natural AC
+1 random spell
+2 STR and CHA
+fast healing 3.
For +1 LA each time. I know my DM will shoot down the LA pay off thing.

[Blackhawk748]

The SLAs it gives are fairly nice, the worst IMO is Contagion, but ya if theres no LA buyoff its not that great. Fast Healing,a SLA, and two stat boosts are worth considering though, think of it as a class level with no HD or skills. Ok thinking of it like that its probably not worth it, still maybe it is, its primarily up to you.

[Azrael9986]

I know its a solid maybe for the moment. I really think we should get back on track here though. XD I was looking for ways to get those abilities or maybe something close to them. I mean if I had those three. I would think about getting the evolved undead as it would be a rather larger bonus when getting it.

The three abilities would add in this when gaining evolved undead based off its Cha gain.
1 X HD in HP
+1 Attack, +1 damage
+1 Deflection AC, +1 all saves.

ON top of what Evolved undead gives. almost making it a class besides the lose of a caster level every time I take it. That to me is the biggest issue I have with taking it. 1 level doesn't hurt too much. 2 levels is bad. 3 you can be crippled. 4 and you are a crippled caster.

[atemu1234]

This requires having a group that can go 100+years between those levels. This tends to kill most groups.

True, but undead parties aren't NOT an option. 10,000 year old party, any takers?

[Azrael9986]

True but its a pain to get the party to take a LA of any kind. I have tried in the past. They stick with +0LA things or nothing. I don't think there is a undead template that I can use that they would be interested in and losing a level is just as bad in their eyes so its a pain in my ass to get them to well become undead.

[Blackhawk748]

True but its a pain to get the party to take a LA of any kind. I have tried in the past. They stick with +0LA things or nothing. I don't think there is a undead template that I can use that they would be interested in and losing a level is just as bad in their eyes so its a pain in my ass to get them to well become undead.

But being undead is great, unless your a melee beatstick, then your kinda sad. Have they not heard "XP is a river"?

[Azrael9986]

Well the group is one ranger, two clerics (one is me), and I think a Monk1/wizard3-5/boneblade reaper6-8. I really don't know the groups levels XD this is just knowing what they are doing. So the boneblade reaper might be there forever.The ranger refuses on role play grounds and character build grounds(no I do not know the reasons but two days of me talking didn't convince him so ya.). The other cleric is more focused on smashing things for his god(The violent one in Eberron). The boneblade reaper is immune to being undead. So ya there are a bunch of reasons we can't. It takes considerable effort to get the stubborn asses to do anything they are not on board with 100% right off the bat. plus like I said we kinda got derailed and went from Unholy Grace, power, and toughness. to evolved undead that don't really give all that much without the unholy buffs. XD

[WeaselGuy]

I don't know what your build looks like, but, for what it's worth, I've had some success in the past with getting a DM to all me to combine Prestige Paladin with Paladin of Tyranny, to go from a LE Cleric into Prestige Paladin into whatever other prestige class. Paladin of Tyranny gets you Charisma modifier to saves, and Prestige Paladin 2 gets that ability, along with a level of spellcasting advancement.