Weapon of Warning

[Bubzors]

Hey so in my group a PC died and he created a new character. The party is level 9 and have at least one or two minor to medium magic items, so I let the player have one or two items as well. He chose a +1 hammer of warning. partly my mistake but didn't fully read what that means in the Dmg, just figured an uncommon enchantment on a +1 weapon wouldn't be a big deal.

However, I did not realize that the weapon basically restricts options on encounters a lot. According to the item, as long as the party is 30 ft of each other, they are never surprised. Takes away a whole slew of ambushes I could try.

The questions I have are

A]Can I never get the drop on them again? Like even if you have archers set around a corner readied to fire arrows when the party comes around. do they never get a chance to fire the arrows first? Does the weapon alert him right before the corner? When exactly is "combat started" and everyone rolls initiative?
B]this ability seems a bit good for just uncommon Magic item. Am I wrong in thinking this?
C]this makes it difficult for things like an invisible enemy spying on them. Is he alerted as soon as the spy casts a spell like suggestion? Or would it be only if he fire balled him?

I guess I'm just a little unsure what you might consider actually combat starting

And yes I know magic items are optional, and it was my fault for allowing it without fully understanding the consequences, but just looking for general advice.

[Forrestfire]

"Surprise" has a specific game definition:


If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.

The weapon, as I read it, prevents that condition. Sure, it cuts down on the amount of damage that an ambushing enemy might do, but you can still ambush them. If the weapon made them unable to be surprised, then it would say something about divining the future, probably. The main use of the weapon is that the party can always act in the first round of combat, just like their ambushers. At that point, the answer is to give the ambushing group a decent initiative bonus, or maybe advantage, to represent them surprising them, but not "Surprising" them.

[Jbones]

Just because they can't be suprised doesn't mean they can't be ambushed. They just get a chance to react to the ambush with an initiative roll.

[Stan]

The holder gets advantage on initiative so it's going to be hard to go before them. The rest just get a chance to roll.

To me, the power reads as a last moment warning, so PCs can still be caught with their pants down. If they were sleeping, they wouldn't have their armor on. If ambushed, they wouldn't have any buffs up. A teleporting creature could be in their midst instantly. A hidden creature would have advantage on attacks.

Maybe a high level recurring villain would get annoyed enough to send an invisible stalker or something to try to steal the weapon.

[Mr.Moron]

I'd really just tell that player "Hey, I messed up and didn't vet things properly. I think that particular selection hurts the game more than it helps out and here's my reasons why. I think we should retcon that selection into something else. It's my fault not yours so let me throw in something a bit extra for the trouble."

If you feel like the removing the possibility of surprises is detrimental to the game, avoiding that is probably more important than keeping a freshly introduced item that was chosen-off screen with no context or history in the game.

[HoarsHalberd]

Hey so in my group a PC died and he created a new character. The party is level 9 and have at least one or two minor to medium magic items, so I let the player have one or two items as well. He chose a +1 hammer of warning. partly my mistake but didn't fully read what that means in the Dmg, just figured an uncommon enchantment on a +1 weapon wouldn't be a big deal.

However, I did not realize that the weapon basically restricts options on encounters a lot. According to the item, as long as the party is 30 ft of each other, they are never surprised. Takes away a whole slew of ambushes I could try.

The questions I have are

A]Can I never get the drop on them again? Like even if you have archers set around a corner readied to fire arrows when the party comes around. do they never get a chance to fire the arrows first? Does the weapon alert him right before the corner? When exactly is "combat started" and everyone rolls initiative?
B]this ability seems a bit good for just uncommon Magic item. Am I wrong in thinking this?
C]this makes it difficult for things like an invisible enemy spying on them. Is he alerted as soon as the spy casts a spell like suggestion? Or would it be only if he fire balled him?

I guess I'm just a little unsure what you might consider actually combat starting

And yes I know magic items are optional, and it was my fault for allowing it without fully understanding the consequences, but just looking for general advice.

Essentially the way surprise works is that the first round of combat is missed by the surprised side. However you can attack prior to the initiative roll by opening combat. The weapon just allows them to attack the first turn after, rather than a well prepared side getting two-three turns in each. If you want to simulate surprise with a group of ranged ambushers, have them all ready an action to attack when the combat opener attacks. Then roll initiative and attack.

As for the invisible spy, spells like suggestion don't usually initiate combat, thus the weapon has no effect unless you as DM want it to.

[rollingForInit]

The group can still be ambushed and "surprised" in a broader sense. If the party attains a reputation for being difficult to surprise by conventional means (which should happen) their enemies will seek out more innovative means. Some examples:

* Magical traps. The party walks into an area that's magically trapped, triggering some sort of initial attack. After that, enemies assault them. This trap could be anything from causing pure damage to applying debuffs.
* The party walks into an ambush where the enemies have a distinct advantage. For instance, archers might be lined up in such a way that it'll take at least a full round just approach them. So the enemies would still get one turn of free fire without interruption (especially if they're spread out so a Fireball can't take them all out). The only difference is that with surprise, the ambushers would get an even greater advantage. And speaking of advantage, you could rule that due their placement, the ambushers have such great lines of sight that they get advantage on all attack rounds during the first round.
* The party is attacked when they aren't ready. For instance, they're ambushed during sleep. Even if the weapon would instantly wake them (does it, though?) they wouldn't have their armour and they wouldn't have refreshed their spells, etc.
* The party's fast reactions could be exploited. Perhaps the enemies are aware of their supernatural reactions, plan on being counter-attacked ... and then have a bunch of previously unseen ambushers waiting with readied actions to fire on sight. Also, traps would could be useful here as well.

All this does, really, is to force the DM to sometimes be a bit more innovative with ambushes. Clever enemies will always find a way to get an advantage.

[Randomthom]

Anti-divination magic non-detection spells could render the weapon's ability as useless.

Also, fluff matters here. How does the warning manifest itself? Is it like Bilbo's sword was when orcs were close or does it just manifest as a feeling in the mind of the wielder? Does it give details?
If it's like Bilbo's sword then trick the players into blindfolding themselves (petrified adventurers in frightened poses give clues of a Basilisk that has long-since moved on) so they won't see the warning.
If it's just a feeling then perhaps place them somewhere where the feeling is ever-present (think like the Marines in Aliens) so they get readiness-fatigue and can then be surprised again.
Surprise them while they're already in combat (with an additional combatant who is late-to-the-fight).
Perhaps it's an auditory warning but the players just set off a silence trap and now full-plated blackguards are running up behind them.

Like I said, fluff matters. If you just take the rule as it is "cannot be surprised" it's unimaginative and inflexible. If you and the player know that the weapon shouts "INCOMING" then you can work with this so there are circumstances under which it isn't working.

There's always anti-magic and thieves too... :)

[Gritmonger]

I'm not sure I would try and work around it, really. If the player has it, then they don't end up vulnerable to assassins unless they lose initiative, and even then with advantage on initiative checks, it's unlikely that would happen.

What's the lore of the weapon? Is it somehow special? Do other people recognize it, does it have a history?

In my game the player with the weapon of warning has it manifest as a property of the weapon that is audible - so that's how other players come to be ready instead of surprised, but it also has the downside of being an audible effect if the players are trying to sneak.

[Submortimer]

This isn't so bad. The weapon doesn't allow them to see into the future, it prevents the surprised condition. Think of it like "Spidey-Sense" : He knows something bad is coming and gets ready for it, but doesn't know what it is till it tries to hit him.

[Bubzors]

Good advice all around. I'll talk over some of the ideas with him. Don't think I'll strip it from him. Just gonna make encounters a bit different. Also might cement his place in the party once they figure out he's good for keeping surprises at bay

[Ghost Nappa]

This isn't so bad. The weapon doesn't allow them to see into the future, it prevents the surprised condition. Think of it like "Spidey-Sense" : He knows something bad is coming and gets ready for it, but doesn't know what it is till it tries to hit him.


This is my understanding of the situation exactly. You know something is coming and you're on your guard but you don't know where you're going to be attacked from or why.


You can have the party walk into a clearing and know that they're about to be attacked and then have the attackers reveal themselves...to be giant moles!

[jamwno]

I realize this is some thread necromancy, but this thread is the first google hit for "Weapon of Warning" and I wanted to correct a misconception.
The Weapon of Warning is a magic weapon, but does not have a +1. This is different from past editions of D&D, where all magic weapons had at least a +1 bonus.
So it will be able to hit things that are resistant or immune to non magical weapons, but doesn't provide the +1 bonus to attacks and damage that a weapon +1 gives.