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View Full Version : Duel: Warlock//Warmage vs. Wizard//Artificer



LeeMon
2007-04-09, 07:26 PM
Well, I didn't have this one planned...

Having secured a mode of rapid transit, my players have stopped off in the main city in the kingdom before moving on to their next objective(s). In the process, they stopped by the mage's shop to have their items identified.

Lucky for them, the mage is a gestalt (as are the PCs and all signficant NPCs). He's a Wizard//Artificer 9, and was easily able to identify their items, as well as provide some information on their histories.

However, this mage is a bit arrogant. He doesn't like other spellcasters (few understand the Art so fundamentally), and he despises adventurers (why risk your neck when selling trinkets to the masses is just as profitable?) He ignored the gnome Bard//Favored Soul (he just identified her magebane warhammer, and was unable to persuade her to give it up, so she avoids his ire). The air genasi Cleric//Shugenja was a curiosity, particularly heralding from a far-off land, but not a practitioner of the Art.

His sights set on his antithesis: the Warlock//Warmage. The character whose life tenets are that he resents authority, wants to do interesting things, and above all, wants to help people and protect those weaker than himself. The character is always perfectly roleplayed, since he's exactly like his player's personality. :)

Before anyone in the group really realized what happened, taunts were exchanged and the Warmage had agreed to a duel.

---

The two will probably meet outside of town, waiting one hour before proceeding. There's nothing preventing the other PCs from casting spells with durations greater than one hour beforehand.

The two will roll initiative. First round, they each cast one spell that affects only themselves. Second round, they ready an action to counterspell (not that it does the Warmage much good). Third round, they act.

Death effect spells are not permitted. Spells that deal damage must be pulled for half damage. Spells that incapacitate result in a defeat for the victim.

The Warmage will likely fly and use his 4th-level spells (He's CL8). If he's clever he'll use Black Tentacles... likely not, he'll probably use the Orb of Energy spells. He just got the warlock short-range dimension door ability (he calls it 'bamf' ala Nightcrawler) and really wants to use it tactically, despite the knowledge that his opponent can see where he appears.

Now, what should the wizard//artificer do?

I could attempt to outshow the warmage in damage potential. (I'm borrowing a previously posted tactic here.) I'd start with Greater Invisibility, then use Metamagic Item Infusion to apply Twin Spell to a CL5 Searing Light wand, then apply Empower Spell via metamagic spell trigger. With the Wand Mastery feat, the wand would Twin two ranged touch attacks (total of four), each for 4d6 x 1.5 damage... or roughly 24d6 damage. Pulled for half damage, the average damage taken would be 36; the Warmage has 48hp.

Or I could just save-or-lose him with Baleful Polymorph.

I'd like to avoid things that cause him to lose in one spell. What I'd REALLY like to do, however, is devise a tactic that forces the Warmage to think and do more than blast a Fireball every round. It need not be the most advanced or fail-proof strategy. From a roleplay perspective, there's going to be a crowd, and the local wizard wants to show his ability to turn away anything that's thrown at him, then turn the tables. If he's smart and lucky, the Warmage might win. If not... well, I don't think anyone will argue that he had the upper hand.

Any thoughts?

Indon
2007-04-09, 08:54 PM
If he's _really_ arrogant, he could try devoting most of his energies towards countering/humiliating his enemy. Spell Protection-type spells, energy fields, counterspelling, dispelling (Oh, you're flying? *yoink!*) are all good examples.

Hario
2007-04-09, 09:40 PM
Oh man is the warmage/warlock going to be PWT'd if you don't take it easy, that build is only for blasting. (makes me wonder why they did that for gestalt) You could always shivering touch him 3d6 dex damage, then cast slow on him, grease, you want to make him cower and regret it not kill him persay, Ray of Enfeeblement would be mostly useless in this, darkness is a good one, just make sure the wizard has some evocation spells prepared so he can counterspell the warlock//warmage's spells, you could always use felldrain magic missles which for a +2 LA makes your magic missles cause level drains, Touch of Idiocy, and touch of stupidity would be good spells in here. The artificer portion can make his armor or sheild (more likely shield) +5 if he spends an action point in 1 round, and give him SR 19 which should just phase just about most of his spells.

Nebo_
2007-04-09, 09:50 PM
Have the wizard use a lesser globe of invulnerability. That will make most of the magelock's spells useless, including eldritch blast. From then on it's just a matter of avoiding 4th level spells.

Merlin the Tuna
2007-04-09, 09:52 PM
On the contrary, Ray of Enfeeblement is emasculating for pretty much anyone. Both Warlocks and Warmages are likely to wear some form of armor, and they're also likely to have just -barely- enough strength to wear it. This will of course depend on the point buy (which tends to be either fairly tight or extremely loose in gestalt games, I've noticed), you could very well knock him down from a light load into a heavy one. He'll take a substantial hit to his speed, will very likely lose some AC (due to the change in Max Dex) ,and it opens up an opportunity for taunting.

The Valiant Turtle
2007-04-09, 10:05 PM
I don't think this poor character has much of a shot (and I think warlock/warmage is the worst gestalt I've ever heard of). I certainly wouldn't want to duel that guy.

I think I'd be asking if I can borrow that magebane warhammer (do either of those classes provide martial weapon prof?) Maybe if the rest of the party can majorly buff him, or if he can really use terrain to his advantage, or get into a grapple. I suppose if he can get really lucky and disrupt some spells as they are cast (readied edritch blast) he might just have a shot, but I doubt it.

Here is a list of nice humiliating spells for the wizard to use: silence, blindness/deafness, Hideous Laughter.

jjpickar
2007-04-09, 10:10 PM
Wow. Humiliating a player that role plays well. Ouch:smallfrown:

Hario
2007-04-09, 10:14 PM
Also as a cute note, a player can use a spell-trigger item like a wand in a silenced area ;P, when I had an artificer I had litterally 20 wands and over 50 scrolls so pick and choose, and don't let him out till he's crying and wimpering, you will be able to tell with the fear in their eyes and them bawling in the corner.

Indon
2007-04-09, 10:18 PM
Here is a list of nice humiliating spells for the wizard to use: silence, blindness/deafness, Hideous Laughter.

Blindness/Deafness is permanent; it'd probably be considered very bad form to use in a duel.

TheOOB
2007-04-09, 10:22 PM
Blindness/Deafness is permanent; it'd probably be considered very bad form to use in a duel.

It's also dismissable, after the duel you can just dismiss it. No harm no foul.

Douglas
2007-04-09, 10:25 PM
Permanent means dispellable in the absence of a specific statement otherwise. In this case it is also dismissable, so the caster can just wave his hand and end it once the duel is over.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-09, 10:27 PM
energy immunity (fire) would be a good one to use

Jack Mann
2007-04-09, 10:40 PM
Isn't playing a warlock//warmage punishment enough?

Hario
2007-04-09, 11:21 PM
Isn't playing a warlock//warmage punishment enough?NEVER!!! invent a spell for the wizard called Polymorph class and turn his warlock//warmage into a commoner/adept and knock his wisdom permanatly (I assume he dumped wisdom anyways) below 10, then the fun begins!

LeeMon
2007-04-12, 07:17 PM
Given that this is a public battle, I think the wizard's going to try to make the warmage look confused and inept, thus solidifying his place as the one competent mage in the region.

So, battle tactics:
* Cast Lesser Globe of Invulnerability in the first round.
* Ready a counterspell with Dispel Magic in the second round.
* Cast Greater Invisibility in the third round, then move 30ft in a random direction.

The warmage is in a tight spot at this point. No spells will work except 4th level spells. His best tactic (blow past Resist Energy and impose status conditions with all those 4th-level Orb of Energy spells) requires a ranged touch attack, and his target is invisible. Of his remaining 4th-level spells, one is illegal (Phantasmal Killer), and one is non-useful (Contagion). This leaves Wall of Fire (which will likely be countered by Fly), Blast of Flame (a 60-ft cone gives him a good chance to guess correctly), Shout (which imposes 20% spell failure if it hits) and Black Tentacles (which would stop any non-somatic spell, i.e. most of them). But each of those is a crap shoot against an invisible target.

At this point, the Wizard can just keep moving 30 feet in a new direction and readying Dispel Magic to counterspell anything he identifies as something that could actually effect him. Dispel Magic doesn't have a 100% chance of success, but he's overconfident. We use the spellpoint system, so he can spam Dispel Magic the entire duel. Since the Warmage is burning 7 points for each 4th-level spell and the wizard's burning 5 points on Dispel Magic, he'll be able to keep up, especially if the warmage tries lower spells first.

The warmage's eldritch blast is a 4th-level spell-like ability and would get through the Globe, but sadly, all the least/lesser blast shapes require a touch attack.

Eventually the wizard will attempt to end the match with, say, Hold Person or Ray of Enfeeblement. Or both.

At this point, I feel like I've made victory possible without being easily achieved. It's possible to win, but it'll take a combination of skill and luck. There's no chance of death (like I said, the 24d6 wandstrike could kill him if it rolls above half damage, even pulled for half damage to start with). I feel like I'm bringing an actual character and his persona to the table, instead of a stat block designed to counter everything the Warmage made his character to do (which wasn't the intention... the wizard's stats were set when the adventure started, and the duel came out of left field).

As compensation for this, if the Warmage succeeds, I have a trinket from the Magic Item Compendium for him... something that enhances one of his most-used class abilities.

Devils_Advocate
2007-04-12, 08:13 PM
Oh, gods, the spell point system. That variant basically gives prepared spellcasters the benefits of spontaneous casting without the drawbacks, right? Bwaahahaha! Oh, man. The warmage is so screwed if he doesn't come up with something clever. As if he wasn't already.


Wow. Humiliating a player that role plays well. Ouch:smallfrown:
Humiliating the character does not necessarily equate to humiliating the player.

LeeMon
2007-04-12, 08:49 PM
Spellpoints do that to a degree... Memorizing casters still have to track a list of "spells prepared" but can cast any of them freely. Thus, they never memorize more than one copy of a spell. They still have to prepare separate metamagic versions of their spells, but yes, it makes them more like sorcerors. Sorcerors have many more spellpoints, and their "spells known" are generally higher than the Wizard's "spells prepared" until you hit 7th level spells or so.

I use it because it means less paperwork for the players, and they prefer it to the Vancian system. ("What do you mean, I can cast Fireball three more times but can't use Magic Missile?")

I'll admit that the Sorceror loses some power next to the Wizard in this case... I do allow my players to take the Battle Sorceror variant from UA. (Basically, lose the familiar and one spell known for each spell level, and change spellpoints to Wizard progression; gain d8 hit dice, the cleric BAB, and proficiency in light armor (including casting) and one martial weapon.) No one's taken it, however. The Warmage preferred automatically knowing a bunch of spells at each level, and wanted a high-Int character that made use of the Warmage Edge ability.

What can I say, the character has the same joys in life as the player: making the world a better place, and blowing stuff up.

storybookknight
2007-04-13, 11:54 AM
Is Globe of Invulnerability dispellable? Does the magelock have voracious dispelling or any of the other fun tricks? Because dispelling the crap out of the dude isn't a bad plan.

What about the sight trick that lets you see invisible?

Ohgodhe'ssoscrewed.

Aquillion
2007-04-13, 12:36 PM
The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty. Note that the globe is visible and will not be made invisible by Invisibility, so the Warmage can dispel it easily (but might not want to--it would make it easy to target level-4 area spells.)

Also note that the globe is centered on the caster when it appears, but does not move with them (hence 'You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.) This makes it a bad combination with Invisibility in any case, since it forces you to stay in one place.

Bryn
2007-04-13, 02:39 PM
On the other hand, it could be used to convince the other person of your location: they keep targeting 4th-level spells at the Globe, while you stand invisibly somewhere else and laugh.

Going Batman on the Magelock might not be very fun for him though: you might want to deliberately use suboptimal tactics to give him a challenging experience that he can still win. I know, somebody's almost certainly said that already...

LeeMon
2007-04-13, 02:47 PM
Aquillion: Ooh, thanks for the tip. He has a better chance than I thought. I'll have to decide which of the two to use.

storybookknight: Nope, I believe he took Eldritch Spear, Hideous Blow, and Sickening Blast for lesser invocations, and Fell Flight and Flee the Scene as lesser invocations. He mostly uses his warlock abilities to either 1) keep shooting when he's out of spellpoints or 2) stop getting stabbed. He's walked into an invisible enemy more than once, and has been full-attacked by a rogue and a dragon on separate occasions. This led to both the flight and "bamf" choices... though honestly, flight got him INTO those messes to start with! :)

The game's Sunday; we'll see how it goes.

Douglas
2007-04-13, 06:00 PM
Hideous Blow? Why did he pick that? It's pretty much the most craptastic invocation ever. Sure, you get to add your (not very high) weapon damage to your eldritch blast damage, but you A) have to be in melee (and it's still an invocation so you provoke AoOs when using it) and B) change the touch attack to a normal attack, sending your chance to hit way down. If you don't mind passing on some advice, tell him to ditch that for See the Unseen at the earliest opportunity, they're both Least invocations so he can just switch them out directly the next time he gets a chance.

Aquillion
2007-04-13, 11:29 PM
Going Batman on the Magelock might not be very fun for him though: you might want to deliberately use suboptimal tactics to give him a challenging experience that he can still win. I know, somebody's almost certainly said that already...One other thing that occured to me (although someone might've already said this). If you use invisibility, have the wizard shout taunts each round, which gives the PC a chance to make listen checks for a general location. This would be in-character for the wizard's arrogance and overall attitude, I think.

PinkysBrain
2007-04-14, 06:59 AM
Buff with a widened anticipate teleport (spell storing item infusion combined with metamagic item infusion). Tactical teleportation is an extraordinarily bad idea in the modern game when facing wizards. Knowing your opponent is half the battle, and the warlock should know this ... if not now, then the next time ;)

Use some battlefield control spells to show him how it's done, solid fog is a good one (could again have a widened one with spell storing item and metamagic item, the duration on both is longer than an hour).

PS. I'm going to assume both are smart enough to have see invisibility.