Rogue dip for Trickery Cleric?

[ZenBear]

What is the most optimized way to build a Trixy Cleric? Is it worth while to dip Rogue for SA, expertise and rapier proficiency?

[Myzz]

What is the most optimized way to build a Trixy Cleric? Is it worth while to dip Rogue for SA, expertise and rapier proficiency?

I did it as an ArchFey Warlock... Get DM to buy off on Deity=ArchFey with trickery nature... = WIN

Use Invoke Duplicity to cast your Eldritch Blasts for added protection.

Use of Medium Armor to boost defense, take Breastplate Armor so no disadvantage on stealth. Get Stealth skill in some fashion (so they dont spot you while your casting spells through your illusory self). Dex 14, AC = 18 (BP=14+2Dex+2Shield)

Dependent on the Campaign, you may or may not want to level 1 of the classes much.

I'd dip minimum of L3 in Lock to gain Pact Boon (Tome is my preference, with Book of Secrets Invocation = 5 Cantrips just from Warlock, 3 of which can come from any spell list and 2 L1 ritual spells from any list, you also can now add any ritual to your tome regardless of spell list).

I'd dip minimum of L2 in Trickster Cleric, for Invoke Duplicity... Perhaps even 6 eventually just to get to 2 Channel Divinity per short rest...

As I'm playing it as a caster, I'd not bother going to level 8 Cleric (Divine Strike is nearly useless to a caster, but you would get an ASI). AND L14 ArchFey Warlock gets Dark Delerium...

SO I'll probably go 6 Trickster Cleric / 14 ArchFey TomeLock

I'll be starting L4, so I'll be starting as 2 Trickster Cleric / 2 Archfey Lock, go to 4 Warlock to grab TomeLock and ASI, maybe 5th to get 3rd level slots, then back to Cleric to level 6, then finish as a warlock...

Just be sure to grab neat tricks in your spells, your combat dmg will be utterly depedent on EB+AB, everything else should be centered around screwing people over (Viscious Mockery as cantrip here can be fun)

[Myzz]

NOTE: TomeLock, frees up your spells known, so that you dont have to either know or have prepp'd ritual spells! (you would have to spend the gp to put them in your Book of Secrets however.... So as a minimum you get 2 Any spell list L1 rituals, AND all the Cleric Rituals you have spell levels for as you get the gold to put them in your book!

Which means more trickeration spells on hand to use!

[calebrus]

What is the most optimized way to build a Trixy Cleric? Is it worth while to dip Rogue for SA, expertise and rapier proficiency?

Depends on how Cleric-y you want to be, and how Rogue-ish you want to be.
You could simply be a Trickster Cleric.
Or you could toss a level or two of Rogue onto it.
Or you could multiclass 5 levels or so of Rogue.
Or you could multiclass 7 levels or so of Cleric onto an Arcane Trickster.
Or you could build a Wisdom based, Cleric spell list using subclass for Rogue called a Divine Trickster (or something) and not take any actual Cleric levels at all, and just toss some newly minted abilities on at levels 3/9/14 (or maybe use domain abilities there).
It all depends on what you're going for. There's no perfect answer to this question.

[calebrus]

AND all the Cleric Rituals you have spell levels for as you get the gold to put them in your book!

Nope.
You need the Warlock levels to add them to your spellbook. Doesn't matter if you have Cleric slots for them or not.
"When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell's level is equal to or less than half your Warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell."
If you don't have the Warlock levels, then you need to have the spell prepared as a Cleric to cast it as a ritual.
Your ritual caster level for Tome of Ancient Secrets is tied to your Warlock level, just like it is for every other caster.
The only way around this class based level restriction in the entire game is to take the Ritual Caster feat.

[Yorrin]

There are a handful of ways to handle it. Rogue x/Cleric x is certainly one option. Picking up a better at-will offense from a feat/race also works (Wood Elf for bows and shortswords, Magic Initiate for Shillelagh, etc.) Depends how you're visualizing your character and what options are easiest for you to access.

[ZenBear]

Depends on how Cleric-y you want to be, and how Rogue-ish you want to be.
You could simply be a Trickster Cleric.
Or you could toss a level or two of Rogue onto it.
Or you could multiclass 5 levels or so of Rogue.
Or you could multiclass 7 levels or so of Cleric onto an Arcane Trickster.
Or you could build a Wisdom based, Cleric spell list using subclass for Rogue called a Divine Trickster (or something) and not take any actual Cleric levels at all, and just toss some newly minted abilities on at levels 3/9/14 (or maybe use domain abilities there).
It all depends on what you're going for. There's no perfect answer to this question.

I'm aiming for a mostly Cleric build. I just don't know if taking a single level of Rogue is worth while or if I really need to invest more levels to make it so. I figure to focus on crossbow attacks for Divine Strike and get my DEX and WIS up as high as I can while still snagging a couple good feats in the mix. Medium Armor Master for full-plate AC in half-plate with no disadvantage to Stealth, Crossbow Master to keep shooting in melee perhaps. Maybe then I won't even need rapier proficiency.

[Yorrin]

I'm aiming for a mostly Cleric build. I just don't know if taking a single level of Rogue is worth while or if I really need to invest more levels to make it so. I figure to focus on crossbow attacks for Divine Strike and get my DEX and WIS up as high as I can while still snagging a couple good feats in the mix. Medium Armor Master for full-plate AC in half-plate with no disadvantage to Stealth, Crossbow Master to keep shooting in melee perhaps. Maybe then I won't even need rapier proficiency.

If that's your goal I'd say try for 2-3 Rogue levels for Cunning Action and perhaps a specialization. Assassin could get you a nice opening Crit with that crossbow or Arcane Trickster could open up a couple new spells and prevent the loss of a caster level.

[ruy343]

If that's your goal I'd say try for 2-3 Rogue levels for Cunning Action and perhaps a specialization. Assassin could get you a nice opening Crit with that crossbow or Arcane Trickster could open up a couple new spells and prevent the loss of a caster level.

This is a great way to learn some handy cantrips too: you automatically get mage hand, along with two other illusion/enchantment cantrips from the wizard list. Sounds like a good idea to me...

[Molotov_Fiesta]

This is exactly the build that I am playing in my current 5e game.

As of today, I am bent on doing this build a Cleric 17/Rogue 3.

3 Levels of rogue gives you 2d6 on your Sneak Attacks, Cunning Action, Expertise and an Archetype to choose, I personnaly plan on taking the Assassin archetype and the only other viable option, IMHO, is Arcane Trickster for some early Illusion spells to accomodate the build.

So that's what I think for the levels...

Now myself, as of late, I'm having issues to choose my weapon, for the moment I am using a light crossbow to have that d8 damage, but the thing is every time I want to shoot a bolt from this 2 handed weapon, I need to drop my shield and I go from 17 AC to 15 AC. So I'm thinking of going for a sling, to keep that ranged/sneak attack option going... Of course I go from 1d8 to 1d4, but at least my AC is always 17 and I don't have to deal with those actions/bonus actions to drop/pickup my shield. That shield is also my Divine Focus to cast spells. So I really need to switch to that sling.

Any thoughts on the weapons you guys use for this build?

[Myzz]

just as a note Half Plate does have disadvantage on stealth (till you get a Mithril one).

AND I think, going crossbow user fails to take advantage of the Trickster Clerics best ability "Invoke Duplicity", even Wizard schools don't get to cast through illusions of themselves... AND it gives you advantage to spell attacks when the illusion is within 5 ft of a target!

AND Cleric only gives proficiency in Light crossbows, and Rogue only adds proficiency in hand crossbows. TBH if your doing this with Divine Strikes, dual hand xbows with Crossbow Expert is the way to go! The lower damage die from the hand crossbow will be overshadowed by the ability to get an extra attack on bonus action if you miss!

[Person_Man]

I think strait Cleric works fine.

You have respectable damage from your weapon + Spiritual Weapon, which can be bumped much higher via Animate Dead, Conjure Whatever, and other direct damage spells at mid-high levels.

Between your class, background, and race you can get plenty of Skill Proficiencies, whose results can be pushed higher via Guidance and Enhance Ability or the Help action. And some of your spells replace (and can be better then) the functions of some Skills in certain circumstances (Charm Person, Invisibility, Freedom of Movement, etc).

You can push up your AC with Shield of Faith and/or Feats. (And its noteworthy that a strait full casters gets normal progression of both spells and Ability Score Increases/Feats, whereas dipping into a non-caster class usually significantly delays access to Feats).

It's not that big of a deal either way, but I personally do not advise taking levels of Rogue for a mostly Cleric build. Your primary source of power is your spells, and multi-classing into a non-caster class nerfs them. As noted above, Cleric spells can boost Skills, making Expertise less important. Many Cleric spells (and Crossbow Expert) use your Bonus Action, and thus you are less likely to be regularly using Cunning Action. And you have plenty of ways to add to your damage.

Having said that, if you want to play a tricky divine caster, you might also want to consider Druid. They get most of the Cleric's Skill replacing spells, but also get access to Shillelagh (Wis to hit), Pass Without Trace (+10 Stealth), Wildshape (fly/swim, Skill buffs, plus who suspects a rat is really a PC?). They're really a much better scout/sneak then the Cleric, which is more of a leader/buff class.

[ChubbyRain]

I have to vote for the following...

Rogue 4/Cleric 8/Shadow Monk 8

Some change in levels works fine, say dropping Monk down to 5 (you always want Stunning Fist and Extra attack though) and boosting Cleric levels is nice.

[Molotov_Fiesta]

@Person_Man;

I kind of agree with everything you say, but I don't want to. Some part of me really really wants to make this multi-class cleric/rogue work.