Flowchart to making a new character?

[jabberwocky9]

I have a difficult time trying to decide what character I want to run in accordance to picking classes to take. I just about want to be able to do everything from martial expert to spell casting prodigy and skill monkey. Factotum should seem something I should always start with.

Out of hilarity, is there a flowchart somewhere to help make decisions or you just make up %^$# as you go along...or do you complete a 20th level build before beginning at 1st or whatever level you decide to start with?

[Coidzor]

I mean, we could probably make a flowchart, though I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.

Do you wanna cast a spell? Yes > Go to Do you want to cast a lot of spells?
No > Go to Do you want to have mighty thews?

Do you want to cast a lot of spells? Yes > Do you want to be divine or arcane?
No > Do you want to use spells as weapons or as tools?

Do you want to have mighty thews? Yes > Go to Do you want to cleave skulls with a great big axe/sword/club?
No > Go to Do you want to be graceful as a quicksilver cat?

and so on and so on.

[jabberwocky9]

I mean, we could probably make a flowchart, though I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.

Do you wanna cast a spell? Yes > Go to Do you want to cast a lot of spells?
No > Go to Do you want to have mighty thews?

Do you want to cast a lot of spells? Yes > Do you want to be divine or arcane?
No > Do you want to use spells as weapons or as tools?

Do you want to have mighty thews? Yes > Go to Do you want to cleave skulls with a great big axe/sword/club?
No > Go to Do you want to be graceful as a quicksilver cat?

and so on and so on.

Greatly appreciate the sense of humor! I imagine that flow chart would be insane!

[jabberwocky9]

BTW, where can I find an updated link to character optimization?

[The_Ditto]

I have a difficult time trying to decide what character I want to run in accordance to picking classes to take. I just about want to be able to do everything from martial expert to spell casting prodigy and skill monkey. Factotum should seem something I should always start with.

Out of hilarity, is there a flowchart somewhere to help make decisions or you just make up %^$# as you go along...or do you complete a 20th level build before beginning at 1st or whatever level you decide to start with?

IF the issue is just "can't make up mind what to play", start jotting basic character ideas down on small cards/paper. either just the idea, or the full 20th level build summary - whatever works for you. Keep dumping them into a jar .. when it comes time to build ... draw one .. go for it .. ;)

Decision made ..
Challenge ... accepted? ;)

[Amphetryon]

BTW, where can I find an updated link to character optimization?

Could you clarify this question, please?

[eggynack]

Different people build differently, and sometimes two builds by the same person come from completely different methods. Personally, I tend to be a mechanics first kinda guy. In my case, that means that I say, "I want to use this class," or, "I want to use this particular variation on this class," or even, "I want to use this feat," and then I start putting together a character that would incorporate that stuff. From there, I go back from the character side stuff, and adapt the mechanics to fit what I've come up with, and I iterate until it feels good.

In your case, if you want to always be a jack of all trades, your first step might just be expanding your list of classes that can pull that. Factotum is great, but it's not the only class that can fight, magic, and skill. Bard is also obviously excellent in that role, as is beguiler, and high tier classes like the druid or cleric can be built to fit just about any set of roles. In the meantime, you may want to check out Person_Man's niche ranking system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?314701-Person_Man-s-Niche-Ranking-System), which gives a good idea of how any particular class can fill the roles in the game. If you like starting off of a long list of things you want to do, then that resource could get you from that point to the right class.

[Shining Wrath]

Sure. It goes like this:
1) Pick an ability score you want to be your primary ability
2) Flip through the books you have access to and pick one or two
3) Post your first attempt at your build here
4) Wait 24 hours and you'll have half a dozen solid builds posted, at least 3 of which will rely on a different base class

[jabberwocky9]

Could you clarify this question, please?

A list of character classes using a balance of mechanics to it's maximum capabilities.

[Tvtyrant]

A list of character classes using a balance of mechanics to it's maximum capabilities.

I am confused. Do you mean like tier 1 n/y, tier 2 n/y, etc. Mundane n/y, etc. And so on down the line? Because there are over 1,000 classes in 3.5, and I don't think you could fit them in a chart.

[jabberwocky9]

I am confused. Do you mean like tier 1 n/y, tier 2 n/y, etc. Mundane n/y, etc. And so on down the line? Because there are over 1,000 classes in 3.5, and I don't think you could fit them in a chart.

Yes, exactly.

[Pluto!]

Line 1: Do you want to be a sweet wizard?
->if y go to line 2, else go to line 3

Line 2: Play a wizard.
->sweet

Line 3: Wrong.
->go to line 1.

[Shining Wrath]

Yes, exactly.

To quickly compare and contrast base classes, Go Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?314701-Person_Man-s-Niche-Ranking-System).

Once you have some candidates in mind, use a search engine. For example, to optimize a Beguiler, search for "3.5 Beguiler Handbook". For most base classes you'll get one or two.

There's no one best character, or even no one best build of a particular class. Oh, and you ought to consider the rest of your party; filling gaps in party capabilities can make you very popular.

[dascarletm]

4) Wait 24 hours and you'll have half a dozen solid builds posted, at least 3 of which will rely on a different base class

Addendum: You will also start 2-3 Xclass vs Yclass tangents, 2 people arguing why or why not one of your classes is a poor choice/stupid, and at least 1 person saying that what you are trying to accomplish is better done with <Insert Different System Than D20 Name>.

[Ferronach]

I usually start by thinking up a fun character as a person/backstory. I specifically avoid details that would pin it to one or two calsses.
I thin sit back and think of which classes would help the character to become what I am looking for and how those classes would mesh with the party.
Then I pick one of those classes or combos and roll with it.

If that fails, I go to my "Folder"
I keep a stack of lvl 1 - 20 build progressions in a folder. Every time I think up a character concept but don't use it, it goes into the folder.
Because all of the characters have their first 20 levels fleshed out, I can easily make them x level and tweak them to fit the party, the campaign, the DM and the op level.

[Troacctid]

A flowchart would be hard to make because you can approach character creation from loads of different directions. I'm thinking what you want is a system of tags that can help group classes together.

For example, you might tag the Duskblade as caster, melee, half-caster, high damage, single-target damage, spontaneous caster, Intelligence, Strength, combat mage. The Warmage might be tagged as caster, ranged, full caster, high damage, single-target damage, area damage, spontaneous caster, Charisma, combat mage. The Bard might be tagged as caster, half-caster, support, support mage, skills, trickery, noncombat utility, jack of all trades, spontaneous caster, party face, Charisma.

Then you'd pick a tag that interests you, like "caster". Narrow that down, maybe you want to be a "combat caster", and that rules out Bard. Narrow that down further, say you want to be melee, and you rule out Warmage. You'd still be looking at Duskblade, Psychic Warrior, Cleric, and so on, and you could make more selections to pin down your final decision.

[ComaVision]

I like this idea. Particularly for new players, it would save me the 20 questions to find out what sort of class they might enjoy playing. If anyone does make/find one, please post it here.

The sort of stuff I've seen like this has been restricted to core.

EDIT:

I have too much time on my hands. (http://i.imgur.com/9JAVm1L.jpg)

[rrwoods]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has piles of builds lying around. I index mine, by role and ability scores, so that if I have to roll for scores I can compare and see what matches up.

I have a collection of personal builds as well as a couple from IC and JYW here (really liked the marrulurk from round 1). When I enter a new campaign I see what other people want to play first, then pick one out of my index.

[jabberwocky9]

I like this idea. Particularly for new players, it would save me the 20 questions to find out what sort of class they might enjoy playing. If anyone does make/find one, please post it here.

The sort of stuff I've seen like this has been restricted to core.

EDIT:

I have too much time on my hands. (http://i.imgur.com/9JAVm1L.jpg)

Ha ha, yes you do!

[Ferronach]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has piles of builds lying around. I index mine, by role and ability scores, so that if I have to roll for scores I can compare and see what matches up.

I have a collection of personal builds as well as a couple from IC and JYW here (really liked the marrulurk from round 1). When I enter a new campaign I see what other people want to play first, then pick one out of my index.

It is reassuring to hear that there are others hahaha!


EDIT: I have too much time on my hands. (http://i.imgur.com/9JAVm1L.jpg)

Now to find a way to adapt this glorios flowchart to quick index my build files....
And yesm yes you do hahahaha! Unless you were at work when you made it and then no you don't! You are be productive and working while at work ;P

[Zaq]

Even for a single person, there's not only one way to make a character. Sometimes you know what kind of role the party needs, and you use that as a starting point. Sometimes you notice something about a class that you've never delved into before, and you want to make that a primary ability of the character, so you build around that. Sometimes you get a funny character concept (mechanical, fluff, or both) that cries out to be made, and you build to fit that concept as best as you can.

That said, I suppose I have done the whole "20 questions" thing to help other people make characters, so it's not like there's no value in thinking of it this way. ("Do you want to be front-line, mid-line, or back-line?" "Do you want to be a primary damage dealer or a support character?" "How magical do you want to be?" And so on.) I don't know if you could really hard-code a flowchart like this that would be robust enough to actually be worthwhile, though. Especially if you want to do more than just picking a base class, whether that would be accommodating for PrCs, taking different builds into consideration (ranged Rogue vs. melee Rogue, for example, or pure Scout vs. Swift Hunter, or casty Bard vs. melee Bard vs. DFI Bard, or whatever), looking at multiclassing, and so on.

In short, I think that I (or someone with an equivalent level of system mastery, so no small number of the people on this forum) could function as sort of a "human flowchart" to help with the character generation process, but I wouldn't trust anyone to be able to think up all the right questions in advance, or to put them in the right order to not shut off options that shouldn't be shut off.

[ComaVision]

You're right, a flow chart isn't comprehensive enough.

But I made this. (http://www.helloquizzy.com/tests/dampd-35-class-quiz)