Spells with material components but no somatic components

[Zorgoth]

If you are casting a spell with material components but no somatic components, do you need to be able to reach into your component pouch or have it in your hand? Or is having it on your person enough?

[Necroticplague]

Still need them in hand. It's implied by the grappling rules, where casting a spell while grappled requires the spell to both have no somatic components and that you have the material or focus in hand.

[Grek]

RAW says you have to "possess" them. Your DM will almost certainly rule that you need to at least be able to touch them, though.

[atemu1234]

RAW says you have to "possess" them. Your DM will almost certainly rule that you need to at least be able to touch them, though.

People still use the rules for non-pricey material components? That's one of the things I kicked out the window right off the bat.

[Barstro]

People still use the rules for non-pricey material components? That's one of the things I kicked out the window right off the bat.

You get rid of one of the few things that keep tier-ones in check? :smallwink: At least make them take the feat.

[Flickerdart]

You get rid of one of the few things that keep tier-ones in check? :smallwink: At least make them take the feat.
A 5 gp item doesn't keep anybody in check. Buy a backup! Buy two backups! Buy 50 backups!

[Karl Aegis]

A 5 gp item doesn't keep anybody in check. Buy a backup! Buy two backups! Buy 50 backups!

Make the entire campaign about collecting special commemorative one-of-a-kind spell component pouches to go with your 50 backups. Why risk your life fighting dragons in dungeons when you can play stick hockey for schwag?

[Flickerdart]

Make the entire campaign about collecting special commemorative one-of-a-kind spell component pouches to go with your 50 backups. Why risk your life fighting dragons in dungeons when you can play stick hockey for schwag?
I'll swap you two Thayan Vellums for your ultra-rare Waterdeep Silk.

[Karl Aegis]

I'll swap you two Thayan Vellums for your ultra-rare Waterdeep Silk.

Is it all right if the Waterdeep Silk is also a lich's phylactery that a third party wants to create a grisgol with?

[Seclora]

Is it all right if the Waterdeep Silk is also a lich's phylactery that a third party wants to create a grisgol with?

I'm no wizard, but it seems like an ultra-rare collectible Component bag would be wasted on making a Grisgol. Sparring partner every 1d10 days on the other hand, along with lovely collector's piece, great use of resources.

Sidenote; best idea for a phylactery ever! Nobody even remembers they have the thing, it's basically the only item in the game that won't get looted.

[Barstro]

A 5 gp item doesn't keep anybody in check. Buy a backup! Buy two backups! Buy 50 backups!

No, it doesn't keep anybody in check. Enforcing the rule that they need to have it does keep them in check. Then they need to buy/find it. They need to not have used it all up in the last fight. They need to be able to access it to cast the spell.

It's a small rule, but ignoring it makes a Tier-1 even easier.
A Fighter doesn't get to say; I drop my +1 dagger and attack with my normal Battleaxe. Sure, I wasn't carrying a battleaxe, but it's a mundane weapon that I could have bought in the last town so I'm just hand waiving the requirement that I cannot draw a weapon for free or even possess it in the first place.:smalltongue:

[Karl Aegis]

No, it doesn't keep anybody in check. Enforcing the rule that they need to have it does keep them in check. Then they need to buy/find it. They need to not have used it all up in the last fight. They need to be able to access it to cast the spell.

It's a small rule, but ignoring it makes a Tier-1 even easier.
A Fighter doesn't get to say; I drop my +1 dagger and attack with my normal Battleaxe. Sure, I wasn't carrying a battleaxe, but it's a mundane weapon that I could have bought in the last town so I'm just hand waiving the requirement that I cannot draw a weapon for free or even possess it in the first place.:smalltongue:

Where does it say that a spell component pouch gets used up? Someone might get confused if you tell them your house rules are the actual rules.

[Barstro]

Where does it say that a spell component pouch gets used up?

True (and not even a house rule). Post edited.

I was mainly (poorly) responding to the idea of getting rid of certain requirements for already overpowered classes.

Thank you for notifying me that I could have confused the issue.

EDIT: But my post did not mention that items in the pouch gets used up. The caster does, however, need a pouch to begin with (not allow the pouch to get stolen, not Magic Jar someone without a way to get a pouch), be able to access it (not in a backpack, not have both hands immobilized), and other rules.

[Flickerdart]

No, it doesn't keep anybody in check. Enforcing the rule that they need to have it does keep them in check.
No. It doesn't. It's a token pittance they spend, and then they don't worry about it. If component pouches were hard to get, that would be something, but as-is the component rules mean nothing and are literally a joke (look up the components for Fireball or Grease or Lightning Bolt, for example).


The caster does, however, need a pouch to begin with (not allow the pouch to get stolen, not Magic Jar someone without a way to get a pouch), be able to access it (not in a backpack, not have both hands immobilized), and other rules.
The whole "steal their pouch" idea is cute, but if you have a T1 caster of the kind that needs to be "kept in check" then your thieves aren't going to do much. Attacking their components is a tactic that works best on the casters that deserve it least.

[Segev]

I seem to recall somewhere that it says you must have your material components on your person, but need not have them in hand, if the spell requires no somatic components. That said, it isn't in Still Spell's text (at lest, not in the hypertext SRD), where I thought it was, so I could be misremembering.

Given that material components usually have to be used in some specific way as part of the casting - the sulfer and guano becomes the pellet that you fire to explode into the Fireball, the powdered silver gets mixed into the water to be transformed into holy water, the spider gets eaten for Spider Climb - it would be a little peculiar to remove the somatic component and just have the material one vanish. This gets especially odd with spells where the gesture is part of actually making the action of the spell function, but that's more a problem with Still Spell than somatic-less spells.

[Firest Kathon]

The rules (D20 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#choosingASpell)/PF (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Choosing-a-Spell)) say you have to manipulate the components:

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any).

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any).

[Zorgoth]

OK thanks everyone! I thought that was probably the case. I can't afford to take the feat so I will just have to make sure to have some material-free escape mechanisms (e.g. blink). Sonic scorching ray should actually get out of a lot of places too, 0 level metamagic feat lets me do 100% damage to objects (I have arcane thesis (scorching ray) and a ring of wizardry II so as long as there aren't adamantine manacles involved, I think I'm good). Of course the players have more to worry about than the NPC wizard does...