AOO help

[finaldooms]

ok so..once again im back because ( yes the exact same person) has yet again done something that irks me and i cant quite understand it


this time he has a monk ( wonderful) and he has picked up some feats..that make it so that he gets an AOO everytime!!! someone goes to attack him ..with combat relexes he has like 8 AOO a round. so my question here is..does that work on things with natural reach ? case in point would be a dragon..20ft reach bite ..does he get to punch the dragon when it puts its face in range?
also do AOO stop attacks, like they do with movement? and would he get to attack them each time they attacked in a full round action ( example : 1bite:punch then 2 claws:2 punches for a total of 3 on the one dragon?)
..there are other questions i had to this but i currently have the guy yammering in my ear and its slipping my mind so il add more later
thanks in advance

[Deophaun]

The feat in question I take is Robilar's Gambit. (Remember enemies get a +4 to attack and damage rolls)

1) Yes, it works with natural reach; provided the monk also has a 20' reach, he can smack the dragon. Of course, if the monk doesn't have a 20' reach and the dragon attacks outside of it, the monk doesn't have a valid target and so cannot attack.

2) By default AoO don't stop movement... so... why would they stop attacks?

3) Yes, every attack on the Monk provokes an AoO, so your dragon provokes three times.

[Doctor Awkward]

this time he has a monk ( wonderful)
...Monks suck.

Seriously. Probably the weakest core class.


and he has picked up some feats..that make it so that he gets an AOO everytime!!! someone goes to attack him ..with combat relexes he has like 8 AOO a round. so my question here is..does that work on things with natural reach ? case in point would be a dragon..20ft reach bite ..does he get to punch the dragon when it puts its face in range?

No.
Only opponents within his threatened range provoke attacks of opportunities from him.


also do AOO stop attacks, like they do with movement?
No.
They don't stop movement either, unless you have something like Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)


and would he get to attack them each time they attacked in a full round action ( example : 1bite:punch then 2 claws:2 punches for a total of 3 on the one dragon?)
No.
They don't provoke AoO's at all.
Unless you have a feat like Robilar's Gambit, which gives you an AoO every time someone swings at you. Or Karmic Strike which only works when they hit you.

Both of them require you to threaten the enemy though.

TL;DR: There's a chance he's doing it wrong.

[finaldooms]

it doesnt stop movement? ..oh we have been using aoo wrong then..we have been saying being hit interupts the turn..so if you were trying to move you stop where you are hit...

..and ok so the dragon biting at him as long as its more than 5ft away wont get punched?

[Doctor Awkward]

..and ok so the dragon biting at him as long as its more than 5ft away wont get punched?

So long as the monk can't reach more than five feet, that's right.

[finaldooms]

ok..just guna bookmark this thread now so that i dont lose it since i just learned something new about AOO lol

[Deophaun]

..and ok so the dragon biting at him as long as its more than 5ft away wont get punched?
Consider that making a ranged attack provokes attacks of opportunity. Were you letting the monk smack the archers with the composite longbows each time they shot an arrow at them from 240' away?

[finaldooms]

his arguement was that since the bite or claw is a melee attack he is allowed to punch the part of the body that comes into range ..it wasnt me being DM and the DM at the time allowed it ..i thought it was stupid

[Troacctid]

Robilar's Gambit is a pretty good feat, but given that a single-classed Monk cannot take it before level 18, and even a Fighter can't take it until level 12, I don't think you should be too concerned with it being overpowered. For the level you get it, it is powerful, but fair.

If your player is using Karmic Strike, well, that's powerful too, and can be taken at a much lower level...but remember that it only gives you an opportunity if they hit you. Attacks that miss you won't trigger it.

Note that an attack of opportunity can stop movement or cancel an attack if your Monk has something like Stunning Fist that he can add onto it. Robilar's Gambit has a clause that says your attack resolves before theirs, so if you stun them with your attack, it stops their attack. (Doesn't work with karmic Strike though.)

[Doctor Awkward]

his arguement was that since the bite or claw is a melee attack he is allowed to punch the part of the body that comes into range ..it wasnt me being DM and the DM at the time allowed it ..i thought it was stupid

The dragon is attacking with a natural weapon. That would be like allowing the monk to punch a halberdier in the axe head.

[finaldooms]

i think its a prestige class that leting him hit before they hit him

its called ancient spirit from the dragon desendet class
..from dragon magic -.- ..the DM wanted everyone to pick something that made them related to dragons in some way and this is this persons choice

[jaydubs]

Robilar's Gambit has a clause that says your attack resolves before theirs, so if you stun them with your attack, it stops their attack.

I'm reading the opposite. I see it saying that your AoO from the feat is resolved after the triggering attack.

[Doctor Awkward]

I'm reading the opposite. I see it saying that your AoO from the feat is resolved after the triggering attack.

But you do hit them as soon as the attack is made. So if they have multiple attacks, you attack back between each one.



its called ancient spirit from the dragon desendet class
..from dragon magic

Sounds right. It still doesn't obviate his need to reach the guy to take his attack though.

[jaydubs]

i think its a prestige class that leting him hit before they hit him

its called ancient spirit from the dragon desendet class
..from dragon magic -.- ..the DM wanted everyone to pick something that made them related to dragons in some way and this is this persons choice

Ancient Ancestor from Dragon Descendant, if I'm reading this right. Yes, that would let him attack before they hit him.

Edit: Let me clarify that. It would let him attack a single time before each of their attacks. So in a full attack scenario, he attacks first (assuming he can actually make counterattacks) and then they trade off swinging.

Though you must be playing a high-ish level game or he got some prerequisites waived. You need to be a 9th level Dragon Descendant to get access to that. Considering it has a 8 ranks of Concentration prerequisite, that's what? Level 14 assuming no early entry tricks? (I'm mostly a PF guy, so I'm a bit rusty on 3.5 skill stuff.)

[finaldooms]

class skill for monks so lvl +3 lvl 5 would hit the requirement right there..still mind and the feats is what would slow it down..but yes we are lvl 16-18 i belive..the DM left and we havnt played them since but he was bringing up an arguement bout how he could punch anything to death without them ever being able to hit him

[Doctor Awkward]

class skill for monks so lvl +3 lvl 5 would hit the requirement right there..still mind and the feats is what would slow it down..but yes we are lvl 16-18 i belive..the DM left and we havnt played them since but he was bringing up an arguement bout how he could punch anything to death without them ever being able to hit him

You can qualify by 5th. Monks get Combat Reflexes for free at 2nd level, Still Mind comes at third, Dragontouched can be taken at 1st.

So yes, 14th is the lowest level he could be.

But it still doesn't let him hit things he can't reach. You cannot punch an enemy in the weapon.

[Deophaun]

class skill for monks so lvl +3 lvl 5 would hit the requirement right there..still mind and the feats is what would slow it down..but yes we are lvl 16-18 i belive..the DM left and we havnt played them since but he was bringing up an arguement bout how he could punch anything to death without them ever being able to hit him
Meh, let him enjoy his fantasies. It makes the tears of despair all the sweeter.

[Khedrac]

his arguement was that since the bite or claw is a melee attack he is allowed to punch the part of the body that comes into range ..it wasnt me being DM and the DM at the time allowed it ..i thought it was stupid
By RAW someone making an attack with a natural weapon from outside your reach cannot be hit. The same applies to Close Quarters Fighting when the creature attempts a Grapple check following an attack that has Improved Grab; this makes such feats a lot less useful.

However, that is RAW, and when I am DMing I do use the house-rule that if the attack would provoke if in threatened range and if the attack is made with a natural weapon then I do allow AoOs in these circumstances - melees have a bad enough time anyway without some of their few useful tricks being rendered useless by most attackers.
(Note: it matters a lot for CQF as most of the things that try to grab you have reach, and unless you are Grapple focused you won't stand a chance without the AoO bonus.)

As for AoOs stopping the causative action, a lot of people think that as most of the information about them relates to interrupting spells, but 90% of actions that provoke are not otherwise affected (unless you go unconscious/dead from the damage). If the rule do not explicitly state that the action is wasted it still happens.

[Curmudgeon]

his arguement was that since the bite or claw is a melee attack he is allowed to punch the part of the body that comes into range
In D&D all melee attacks are resolved in the attacker's space. Officially, no part of their body or weapon leaves their space; instead, the attack gets to the target via their "natural reach". In contrast, all ranged attacks are resolved in the target's space. This can make a huge difference if there are magic weapons and Antimagic Field involved.