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dragonwings
2007-04-09, 09:56 PM
Alright, I need a bit of advice. This is going to be a bit long, but I hope you guys can pass down the wisdom you've gained over your years of gaming to help me, since I still consider myself a newbie. I'm not the best with confrontation and something has been getting on my nerves recently about a buddy of mine and his passion for the monk class.

I can repsect that he really likes it. I, myself, am a big fan of the one warlock I'm playing in the same game. The problem comes when the DM stuck us in an arena situation where we're forced to fight whoever comes up on the dice roll. This has involved some PvP and all has been well. Sadly, this got our monk friend thinking of ways to kill everyone else (which, I think has gone through all our heads at some point). When he came to the warlock (me) he immediatly noticed that, at the level we're at, I have Fell Flight. 24 hours of a happy black cape that allows me to fly. This sets off bells in his head. Not to mention the DM has allowed me to have Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Maximize Spell-Like Ability from the Monster Manual because otherwise, I had a crap ton of useless feats. The monk's gears start turning. Beating flying things for a monk would be difficult if not impossible. If I were to win initiative, it would be a quickened Fell Flight and a full move thirty feet in the air out of his reach, then with enough luck, I'd try to pick him off with blasts. If he won initiative, he'd charge and attempt to stun me so I couldn't move. Then, he'd Flurry of Blows me to death and that would be that.

If this was where it ended, everything would be good and fine. It doesn't. He now complains, very loudly I might add, that "warlocks are overpowered" and "broken." :smallannoyed: He completely ignores the fact that the fighter that weilds a bow would have an easy time with me.

Wait. There's more. This is the same player who grabbed the Book of the Nine Swords for a game I almost ran and made a Sword Sage with skill points out the rear end.

Here's the question to you guys.
1. Is the Sword Sage's skill point total at first level a typo or mistake?
2. What can I do to make peace again? He has flat out stated he's not going to stop griping until I lose a fight to him. I told the DM that I'd be willing to throw a fight just to quiet our monk, but the DM just told me he was now tempted to give me a ring of True Strike (3/per day I think) so I could blow the monk to bits.
3. Are warlocks really overpowered?
4. What would you do in this situation?

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-09, 10:08 PM
I can't talk about ToB, but

2/3/4:
(Assuming we've ditched our story and are now headed for the OOC Thunderdome:) Don't show up for a session. In that session, ask your DM to throw as many CR-appropriate flying things at the party as he can (and, you know, snipers). Spam potions of fly. Make sure warlocks are totally absent, (but not, say, flying sorcerers, or archers on balconies)...

Actually, that's a pretty stupid idea.

Never mind.

Make ten characters. A ranger, a wizard, a sorcerer, a fighter, a barbarian (possibly with a potion of fly), a paladin, a druid, a bard, and a rogue. Pit them against your warlock. "Oh, hey, they basically all won. Huh."

Hario
2007-04-09, 10:09 PM
Alright, I need a bit of advice. This is going to be a bit long, but I hope you guys can pass down the wisdom you've gained over your years of gaming to help me, since I still consider myself a newbie. I'm not the best with confrontation and something has been getting on my nerves recently about a buddy of mine and his passion for the monk class.

I can repsect that he really likes it. I, myself, am a big fan of the one warlock I'm playing in the same game. The problem comes when the DM stuck us in an arena situation where we're forced to fight whoever comes up on the dice roll. This has involved some PvP and all has been well. Sadly, this got our monk friend thinking of ways to kill everyone else (which, I think has gone through all our heads at some point). When he came to the warlock (me) he immediatly noticed that, at the level we're at, I have Fell Flight. 24 hours of a happy black cape that allows me to fly. This sets off bells in his head. Not to mention the DM has allowed me to have Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Maximize Spell-Like Ability from the Monster Manual because otherwise, I had a crap ton of useless feats. The monk's gears start turning. Beating flying things for a monk would be difficult if not impossible. If I were to win initiative, it would be a quickened Fell Flight and a full move thirty feet in the air out of his reach, then with enough luck, I'd try to pick him off with blasts. If he won initiative, he'd charge and attempt to stun me so I couldn't move. Then, he'd Flurry of Blows me to death and that would be that.

If this was where it ended, everything would be good and fine. It doesn't. He now complains, very loudly I might add, that "warlocks are overpowered" and "broken." :smallannoyed: He completely ignores the fact that the fighter that weilds a bow would have an easy time with me.

Wait. There's more. This is the same player who grabbed the Book of the Nine Swords for a game I almost ran and made a Sword Sage with skill points out the rear end.

Here's the question to you guys.
1. Is the Sword Sage's skill point total at first level a typo or mistake?
2. What can I do to make peace again? He has flat out stated he's not going to stop griping until I lose a fight to him. I told the DM that I'd be willing to throw a fight just to quiet our monk, but the DM just told me he was now tempted to give me a ring of True Strike (3/per day I think) so I could blow the monk to bits.
3. Are warlocks really overpowered?
4. What would you do in this situation?

Warlocks are hardly overpowered they are only good with a few things and blasting, which isn't all that great, it just happens the monk can't get in range which can happen, even your eldritch blasts shouldn't be affecting the monk much since his touch AC is more than likely through the roof, and has evasion (for other blasty spells). What I'd do in this situation is if he continously threatens you IC or even OOC prove him wrong, don't throw a fight, that just boosts his ego. the monk could take you out very easily in any other situation, its just one ability, and all casters like clerics (of travel domain), wizards, sorcerers, etc. get the spell, it'd be the same thing, besides you really don't even need to quicken it you still get the 30 feet of movement after the standard action. If the player doesn't stop simply sit him down with your DM and explain to him, he isn't being a player and should grow up, he obviously isn't mature (I'm assuming) and should relise its a game and its just that, nothing more, if he thinks the warlock is broken he better hope no one ever plays a cleric, wizard, sorcerer, druid, warmage, fighter,barbarian, ranger, paladin, (you get the idea) what can make a class that is actually underpowered is if you make the right decitions and play the character right and get lucky, it depends on the DM. So inform him the warlock is a vastly weak class, also so is the monk ;P

Lolth
2007-04-09, 10:14 PM
I can't help you on the Sword Sage bit, sorry. I don't own that book.

On the other side of things, honestly? Your fellow player is being a twit. And chances are good (I am guessing, based on my own experiences) that you being a woman are not helping his ego bruising.

Warlocks are, generally, considered underpowered, not over, by those who live and die by "Optimising" their PCs. But yours happens to have the right setup to kick the pootie out of his Monk. That's not an indictment of either class, that's a situational advantage you have with THIS Warlock against THIS Monk.

If he had tabi-socks of Air-Walking Quickly he could run up after you and probably break you in two, thus assuaging his gamer ego. And there would be no talk of Warlocks being overpowered.

Welcome to gaming - miles of fun, and the occasional fellow player who takes his PC's successes and failures a little too close to heart.

dragonwings
2007-04-09, 10:19 PM
I really appreciate all the comments. And thanks, Lolth. I didn't think about him getting his bum kicked by a girl being a factor. Now that I think about it, that may be a big part in it.

Though I have a few more questions. Both I, the DM, and the Monk have read every bit of the bit about warlocks and their happy little blasts. So far, none of us have found anything restricting how many times per day I can use them or how many times I can add an invocation (other than the "No two shapes" rule). Are we missing something?

Indon
2007-04-09, 10:27 PM
Monks know how to use crossbows, if I recall.

In fact, monks know how to borrow longbows and use them at a penalty to hit, too.

Your whiner/hypocrite, however, does not know monks.

Lolth
2007-04-09, 10:27 PM
You can use them all day long. It's basically all a Warlock does, mechanics wise.

And yes, it sounds like his problem is that basically, by his calculations (right or wrong), he can beat up every other party member but you, which makes his Gamer Ego unhappy.

Hario
2007-04-09, 10:31 PM
I really appreciate all the comments. And thanks, Lolth. I didn't think about him getting his bum kicked by a girl being a factor. Now that I think about it, that may be a big part in it.

Though I have a few more questions. Both I, the DM, and the Monk have read every bit of the bit about warlocks and their happy little blasts. So far, none of us have found anything restricting how many times per day I can use them or how many times I can add an invocation (other than the "No two shapes" rule). Are we missing something?
Warlocks can cast their invocations NI (infinite) amount of times per day, but they only have a couple invocations which makes them useful once in a while, they don't do the same damage as a fighter (which this class is a blaster) and only ever get to do 1 eldritch blast per turn (2 if one is quickened) and maxes out at 6d6, most encounters only last 1-5 turns and most wizards/sorcerers have enough good spells to last 20 rounds a day (4 encounters per day) the warlock totally is shafted if there is 1 or 2 a day but totally shines if there are more than 4 encounters a day. You can take a feat to get more invocations, and get ones like Eldritch glaive (which is my favorite IMOH) and later on cast spells you don't know by making scrolls or items via Use magic device. Overall the warlock isn't a fighter (though it tries to be a ranged one) isn't a good spellcaster, and isn't even a good gish (bad BAB and such) so the warlock's NI invocations isn't an issue at all.

dragonwings
2007-04-09, 10:47 PM
Monks know how to use crossbows, if I recall.

In fact, monks know how to borrow longbows and use them at a penalty to hit, too.

Your whiner/hypocrite, however, does not know monks.
And our DM has put us in an arena with weapons all across the walls at our disposal. We just have to make a search check for 'em.



And yes, it sounds like his problem is that basically, by his calculations (right or wrong), he can beat up every other party member but you, which makes his Gamer Ego unhappy.
Is this a common problem? I mean, until the PvP, I don't think any of us had even considered it. I want to know more of this Gamer Ego. Teach me please?

Nebo_
2007-04-09, 10:47 PM
1. Yes, that's a mistake, it hasn't been errata'd but it's been addressed in the FAQ, that should be x4

2. I really can't help on this, the other player is being unreasonable. There shouln't be PvP any way. He wouldn't be complaining if you were doing the same thing to help him in a fight.

3. No, Warlocks look good on paper, but they're really not that crash hot in game. They have great survivability and endurance, but that's about all. Still, they're really fun to play.

4. Show the other guy that warlocks aren't actually that good.

JoeFredBob
2007-04-09, 10:49 PM
1. Is the Sword Sage's skill point total at first level a typo or mistake?


I'm pretty sure it's a typo. NOTHING is x6 at first level.

Ranis
2007-04-09, 10:53 PM
People like this gain the spell-like ability "Tunnel-Vision." These poor, unfortunate gamers make up the general populace of any game you see online where people spam, don't type using complete grammar, and just plain get annoying, but you will smash them every time.

Sadly, there is very little that can be done with these gamers. These fanboys of one class and one class/race/spell/[insert fanboy item of obsession here] rarely respond to logic, whenever it is thrown at him, or any semblance of maturity shown, he generally hates it and attacks it like a rabid wombat in July. This is because it makes him look like the prick that he knows he's being, but, sadly, the fanboy continues to do the only thing he knows how: adding fire to fire, hoping that it will work. When it doesn't work, he throws a tantrum, refusing to accept the fact that he's wrong.

I suggest a healthy dose of Maturity with a side of STFU. And if that doesn't work, then ignore him. He may throw so much fire on the fire that he burns himself down, and that's always amusing to watch.

dragonwings
2007-04-09, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the clarification on the Book of the Nine!

PnP Fan
2007-04-09, 10:55 PM
Speaking for the gamer guys: The fact that you are a woman may or may not be a factor, seriously, we're not ALL like that (though I've met a few ;-) You would be the best judge of that.

Echo sentiments about your build vs. his build. Sometimes this happens, really not a big deal. You've built well (it sounds), and he may or may not have built well, but clearly didn't build with flyers in mind.

What to do: First of all, any situation in which you are forced to fight PvP is something you want to avoid. I mean, if your characters are adventuring buddies, I would think you are violating your friendships in order to participate in this arena thing. To me this means either a) it's a sporting event, in which case no one dies and it really doesn't matter at all, or b) you are captives. In case "b" you should refocuse the group by trying to get everyone to band together and escape. Don't play the game that the monk and the DM want you to, play the game you want to play, take charge, and break out. Have your CHARACTERS conspire to determine who wins the fight, instead of actually fighting it out. Think outside the box/arena.

Okay your actual questions:
1. I agree, it seems a bit high, but I think this is because many of the kewl powerz of ToB require skill rolls in order to make them happen (as opposed to spells)
2. See above. Also, don't pander to his ego. I assume that, prior to the arena nonsense, you were friends with this guy. Before the game, do a little social engineering. Try and recall some adventures/encounters when you and he actually worked *well* together, and share those stories. Try and relate them to the current situation. Sometimes people just need to be reminded of why they are actually at the table, especially if they get caught up in the details of a particular encounter. I know it sounds silly, 'cause it's an emotionally manipulative sort of thing, but I find that good feelings make better friendships than sound, logical arguments.
3. General wisdom is that Warlocks lie somewhere below full spellcasters in power but probably better than straight mellee types. They don't have the variety of spellcasters, obviously, but they have a lot more staying power than a spellcaster, though that hardly ever comes in to play in most games. They sit above mellee types for precisely the reason your monk friend is so worried. They have options that take them out of mellee without neutering them.
4. see above.

PnP Fan
2007-04-09, 10:59 PM
lol!
I never noticed the x6 multiplier! The standard is x4, so I never even looked!

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-09, 10:59 PM
The monk player is an idiot. Warlocks are underpowered. Granted so are monks, so really both of you are about equal.

If he can't handle a flying opponent then he should stop complaining.

Jade_Tarem
2007-04-09, 11:04 PM
I want to know more of this Gamer Ego. Teach me please?

No, you don't want to know more of it. It's ugly and nasty and it crashes otherwise worthwhile games.

Fine, you asked for it.

There comes a time, in every young person's life, where he or she begins to take an interest in members of the opposi- Wait! Wrong talk! :smalleek:

There comes a time, in every DnD gamer's life, where he or she wants to establish his or her dominance and position among the gamers in their group - to achieve glory, prestige, and the immortal Kleos. This is usually about the time when they *begin* to clearly see how rules stack up, but not necessarily after they've begun to grasp the enormously complex rock-paper-scissors facet of DnD. He or she begins to compare the power of thier character to each of the other characters in the group, and the comparisons are usually internalized and biased. ("I could take him by doing X, Z, and Q. I could take her by doing J, L, and R...") This also usually occurs at a time when he or she is still relying on first impressions to make judgments about classes/monsters/etc - so seeing a wizard get owned by some unidentified assailant may convince them that wizards are underpowered, even though the assailant was actually 13 levels higher than the wizard or something.

So now your buddy is trying to size up your warlock - but spellcasting and alternate eldritch rules really mess that up, there. What your gamer buddy is seeing is that he put a lot of time and energy into a character that he really likes and sees as superior, and then finds out with the same kind of shock associated with being hit by a toilet seat from orbit that warlock really shines in 1 on 1 combat with nonflying melee opponents - you are the paper to his rock. What he doesn't see is that warlock is not even close to overpowered unless you really optomize it - it's the opposite, really. Nonetheless, he sees that you can, with the application of a little thought, beat him easily when he had already assumed that he could take anyone in the group. This does two things at once - hurt his ego by making him lose (and no one likes to lose) and dispel his fantasy about his pet project monk. However, he still has to prove that he's better than everyone, so he can't possibly be wrong, to his thinking - thus, warlocks must be broken! Then, even if you win, he can console himself by saying you had a ton of unfair advantages, and he can make that clear to the group by taking a stance of righteous umbrage - by lashing out and making stupid demands and claims that only show him up as a sore loser - and an inexperienced one, at that.

We had the same thing happen in my group as far as warlocks were concerned. There was a PvP style battle where the warlock managed to kill another player, and that player got really mad and stomped out of the session, blaming WotC, the DM, the Warlock, and the universe for making warlocks overpowered. It was pretty childish. About the same time that he was starting his car to go home, the warlock was smoked by the sorcerer.

Ranis
2007-04-09, 11:15 PM
We had the same thing happen in my group as far as warlocks were concerned. There was a PvP style battle where the warlock managed to kill another player, and that player got really mad and stomped out of the session, blaming WotC, the DM, the Warlock, and the universe for making warlocks overpowered. It was pretty childish. About the same time that he was starting his car to go home, the warlock was smoked by the sorcerer.

Sad thing is, this EXACT thing happened to me. Creepy, really. Except the Warlock got pwned by the monk.

Irony.

dragonwings
2007-04-09, 11:17 PM
Wow. I really had no idea it was so complex, Jade_Tarem. Thanks for explaining that. I feel enlightened with all this assistance. Thank you, everyone that has given me their two cents. You guys have given me a few more options to think about.

Lolth
2007-04-09, 11:25 PM
Jade Tarem's explanation is as good as it gets, and probably more delicately phrased than mine would have been.

My guy friends generally hate that I know more about baseball than some of them too. VoRP?

This surely does not apply to all gamers, but I've observed the following:

Most gamers tend to be a little brighter than the average bear, but not nearly as bright as they think they are.

Most gamers' "Gamer Ego" is inversely proportionate to their social aptitude, though this is not universal.

Many gamers love the idea of a gurl at the table, but find themselves threatened by the reality of it. If, you know, we're not there to play a pretty princess or as someone's girlfriend who they get to show how to bounce dice and patronize with the best of intentions.


I don't mean this as meanly as it might come across, but sometimes you just gotta roll up your sleeves and show 'em that being a gaming geek does NOT require dangly bits.

Bassetking
2007-04-10, 12:28 AM
I don't mean this as meanly as it might come across, but sometimes you just gotta roll up your sleeves and show 'em that being a gaming geek does NOT require dangly bits.

I've got two women who game in my regular group. They have never had to prove to any of the men in the group that they needed danglybits to be a geek...

No, One did that when she used a Defenestrating Sphere to solo the BBEG when he was approximately five or six levels above her...

The other managed to roll a true 100 on a DI check, and proceeded to bench-press an adult green dragon, Because she had just aquired a temporary Portfolio.

In response to Wings; The thing is... And yeah, I know this has already been gone over... But the thing is... A monk in PvP combat is Scary.

This guy probably took a look at his sheet, and said "Holy CRAP. I can really kick some ass! Against the fighter, I can use my unarmed progression to bypass his AC and DR, Against the casters, I've got Evasion, and can make use of stunning fist to disrupt casting long enough to unleash a flurry of blows and end them in one brutal Chuck-Norris-Esque Chop-socky Bonanza, Against the CODzilla, I can buff my wisdom, and go up against them with an AC that puts the fighter to shame, in addition to making use of my ability to move nearly double their distance per round in order to control the encounter...."

And then he realized the fatal flaw all Monks have to come to terms with eventually.

For a Monk to be able to DO anything... they have to be able to engage in Melee.

Monks can be brutal and effective in close-quarters PvP, but once they have to face an enemy they can't actually engage, they lose all potential.

He may easily be miffed because he took a look at the arena, saw a chance to really shine, to really make himself look big and bad in front of a group of peers he feels respects him... And realized that your character can whip his sorry butt, and all those thoughts of respect and adulation turned to ash in his mouth.

You're not just a threat to his ego, you're a threat to his chance for glory, for spotlight... For RESPECT.

The good news? You're not actually going to cheat him out of any of these. He's a social misfit, and losing will do him some good.

Lemur
2007-04-10, 12:48 AM
1. Already addressed, it's a typo

2. If the DM's willing to give you free magic items, totally go for it :smallamused: Oh, wait, you wanted to make peace. Go for the magic items, and rub it in his face. Bah, I'm no good at this.

In all seriousness, if even the DM is getting bothered by it, the DM should tell him to stop. Giving another player stuff to spite another player isn't a good way to resolve this sort of conflict (but really, from a player's perspective, free magic items rule). I know it's not really your place to give the DM advice on what to do, but perhaps the DM could fudge a roll and face the monk against an NPC warlock that can't fly or otherwise avoid melee, or a group of levitating wizards who just float and mock him instead of fighting. Or, barring that, just find DM torture methods for the character until he agrees to shut up.

3. No. They are pretty good at looking out for themselves and staying out of melee, but they really don't have much tricks at their disposal. The only reason this guy seems to think they're overpowered is because they can fly, which is the obvious weak point of any melee character. Heck, a level 3 wizard with levitate is safe from a monk.

4. If it were me, I'd challange the player to a fight, then give up on the first round. I'd be really dramatic about it, like "My character crumbles to the ground and cries 'Gadzooks! I've been defeated! How unfortunate!' or 'Blunt trauma! My one true weakness!' (or something similarly absurd)"

Mainly I'd be trying to demonstrate the pointlessness of worrying about fighting other party members. I'm not known for my tact, though.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-04-10, 01:10 AM
Remind him that he adds dex and wis to his AC, making him probably one of the hardest targets for a warlock to hit. And if he's not smart enough to think up a way to hit a flying opponant then that's his problem. Warlocks are not overpowered, but they are strong again idiots who can't plan and like to complain when things don't look good for them.

What would I do in that situation? Make your warlock powerful, give it the power it deserves, all those meta-spell-like-ability feats are good ideas and I never play a warlock without them.
Fly up, and do your best to blast his lawful ass.:smallwink:

ken-do-nim
2007-04-10, 08:55 AM
My goodness. Potions of fly are 750 gp, expensive but not like break-the-bank. As a card-carrying monk lover & player, I make sure I always have at least one handy. Tell your monk player that if he really wants to learn how to kill all the other party members, he should PM me. Wait, that's encouraging him isn't it?

Aquillion
2007-04-10, 12:24 PM
I am curious what his plan to kill the party wizard was. He does know they learn Fly, don't they?

...but, anyway, yeah. I suggest you just drop broad hints that there are magic items out there that grant flying abilities. He'll have to save up for a continuous one, but it's completely worth it (flying is worth as much as a major class feature, really.)

Olethros
2007-04-10, 12:47 PM
If all of the very good ideas that have been mentioned don't work. And no amount of discussion, logic, social engenering, real time examples, etc will get him to shut up and leave off. I suggest ceeping your eye out for a new player that isn't 5, as this will likely only be the first in a long line of tantrums he will throw when things don't correspond to his (fantacy)world-view. Your DM sounds a resonably sot, and eventually may be forced to cut him for the greater good.

Thrawn183
2007-04-10, 12:56 PM
Part of the problem I'd say is the fact that your warlock is essentially flying 24 hrs/day. This is NOT broken. I am NOT accusing you of trying to play the most twinked out character you can. But keep in mind that as closing to melee combat is often a monk's greatest difficulty, your fellow player sees it constantly. There is no, "well, maybe if I got lucky things might go my way" at least, not with the build that I interpreted him going with (melee only and screw ranged). To him this is a constant aggravation, something that is present with every single character interraciton. Again though, you are doing NOTHING wrong. This problem falls on his shoulders.

Just mention to him that you are tired of the PvP garbage and that his character (I'm assuming here) shouldn't even be wasting time planning such a thing. Show solidarity with the DM and the other gamers and the message will make it through. Please, think long and hard about too rough a confrontation. I have had to repeatedly apologize to my friends for snapping at them because they kept going with something when I thought I had made it clear I wanted them to stop. Actually, my friends are cool enought that we all end up apologizing and deciding that we all really just want to play and get back to the table.

PS. Odd example: We had a rogue (played by a woman) who loved stealing from the party. I had a problem with this and voiced it rather, um... loudly. What I didn't realize is that the player really felt loyal to the character she had created and felt trapped between a character and her friends. The next campaign? She played a mage who's the epitome of party helpfulness. Actually, now that I think about it, I may owe her an apology too. *Sigh*, it seems like all I do now days is make up for past mistakes at the table. Don't make the same mistakes as me. Err on the side of politeness/caution.

Maxwell
2007-04-10, 01:10 PM
Kill the monk. Then challenge said monk's player to a rematch with switched characters. Your a monk, he's a warlock. Crossbow, potion of fly, or any other way, kill him again. This should prove him wrong but at the very least it will be wickedly fun.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-10, 01:15 PM
Kill the monk. Then challenge said monk's player to a rematch with switched characters. Your a monk, he's a warlock. Crossbow, potion of fly, or any other way, kill him again. This should prove him wrong but at the very least it will be wickedly fun.What a great idea. It's not like you might want to ever play in a group with this guy, ever again. Do this, and he's likely to go all Bonzo Madrid on you.

Saph
2007-04-10, 01:16 PM
Is this a common problem? I mean, until the PvP, I don't think any of us had even considered it. I want to know more of this Gamer Ego. Teach me please?

I've been in this kind of situation before. I really hate it. Jade_Tarem summed it up pretty well, but he's left out the worst part of it:

There is no way to make another player quit once he's decided that you're a threat to his Gamer Ego, at least not by yourself. If you just ignore him, he'll get emboldened and try and do something worse. If you tell him to get lost and point out the stupidity of trying to turn D&D into a PvP game, he'll just keep arguing. If you fight him and win, he'll want a rematch. If you fight him and lose, he'll want a rematch anyway.

There are only two ways for a Gamer Ego grudge to be ended:

a) He stops of his own accord once he figures out how stupid it is to base his self-esteem on whether his D&D character could kill his teammate.

b) You crush him so completely that he realises that he's never going to beat you in a million years, and finds an easier target.

The first one is the "good" solution, where you make friends, realise that the true lesson of D&D is in teamwork, link hands, and dance off into the sunset singing happily, etc. The second one is the "evil" option and requires a change of approach. Instead of trying to get him to leave you alone, you turn on him and hurt him enough that all he wants is for you to leave him alone.

Choose whichever suits you. :)

- Saph

Telonius
2007-04-10, 02:02 PM
First of all, proceed with caution. I believe you may have stumbled upon an Evil Munchkin in its larval stage. If certain conditions are met - if he discovers the existence of the CharOp boards, for example - you will be dealing with the player who thinks he can win D&D. That's the first barrier you have to overcome, because he's going to try to do just that. His competitive instincts are aroused.

Your DM has handled this pretty poorly, by forcing you into a situation where intraparty conflict is pretty much assured. He needs to not do this ever again. Having said that, I think that one thing that he could do, would be to engineer a situation where everybody - and I mean everybody - gets pwned by something that should be no threat at all. Enter: Tucker's Kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/). Force your DM to read that link; use blackmail to do so if necessary. The point of the exercise should be that, given the right conditions, everybody can be defeated. Having a powerful build matters, but using your brain is worth even more.

Daneel the Sane
2007-04-10, 02:23 PM
Personally, as my group's DM, I would privately approach the player of the monk, and have the following conversation:

Me: *SMACK!* Knock it off! You are ticking me off royally and being a pain in the patoot!
Him: But-but-but... Warlocks are too powerf-
Me: *SMACK!* The warlock is your TEAMMATE! You WANT powerful teammates!
Him: But... my Gamer Ego cannot handle the...
Me: *SMACK!* Get over it! It is a game, a**hat! Now put that thing back in your pants and get back to gaming. And while you are at it, go get a date... with a WOMAN! Have a nice day, and thank you for shopping at Daneel's World.


But that is just me... Oddly enough, this approach works well on some of my players.