Unarmed strike and claw attacks

[bootzin]

Is there any way of transforming my unarmed strikes into claw attacks?

Please note that I do not want 2 claw attacks, but all unarmed strikes with my hands as claw attacks

That is due to the fact that I will have more than two hands

Also, If I have 4 arms and a BAB of +10/+5, how many attacks can I make with it? And suppose I had 6 arms and full BAB, would I be able to make 24 attacks?

[Karl Aegis]

Outside of certain feats, you cannot make iterative attacks with natural weapons.

[Necroticplague]

Is there any way of transforming my unarmed strikes into claw attacks?

Please note that I do not want 2 claw attacks, but all unarmed strikes with my hands as claw attacks

That is due to the fact that I will have more than two hands

Also, If I have 4 arms and a BAB of +10/+5, how many attacks can I make with it? And suppose I had 6 arms and full BAB, would I be able to make 24 attacks?

Think of an unarmed strike as a manufactured weapon you wield without using any hands. You don't get any more UAS attacks for having more hands. So you could make 2 attacks at 10/5 with a UAS.

As for the first part: I'm not sure what you're asking. You don't have an UAS for each hand. Would Beast Strike be sufficient for your needs?

If the part about multiple attacks is about claws, then I'd like to point out that natural weapons don't get iteratives, so you'd get 4 from BaB+6 natural weapons, assuming no rapidstrike of multiweapon fighting shenanigans were going on.

[bootzin]

The situation is as follows:

I want to build a grappling character, but grapple itself is hard to have as a main ability as it is a bit limited in use.

Based on that, I decided to go for an Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus, which will give me 6 humanoid arms treated all as natural weapons.

From then on, I intended to get multiattack feat so that I could effectively use all my arms in battle.

Also, I decided to go for the Dervish PrC, but the abilities of the class only work for slashing weapons. So I wanted to transform all my hand attacks into claw attacks, so that it would count as slashing.

Of all that I've seen until now, I only get a maximum of 2 claw attacks.

So my questions are: Is there any way of transforming all my "natural fist" attacks into claw attacks? And how many attacks to I get from haveing 6 natural weapons? 6 total or 6 for each attack form BAB? Or even 4 from BAB plus 5 from the other arms?

[Necroticplague]

The situation is as follows:

I want to build a grappling character, but grapple itself is hard to have as a main ability as it is a bit limited in use.

Based on that, I decided to go for an Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus, which will give me 6 humanoid arms treated all as natural weapons.

From then on, I intended to get multiattack feat so that I could effectively use all my arms in battle.

Also, I decided to go for the Dervish PrC, but the abilities of the class only work for slashing weapons. So I wanted to transform all my hand attacks into claw attacks, so that it would count as slashing.

Of all that I've seen until now, I only get a maximum of 2 claw attacks.

So my questions are: Is there any way of transforming all my "natural fist" attacks into claw attacks? And how many attacks to I get from haveing 6 natural weapons? 6 total or 6 for each attack form BAB? Or even 4 from BAB plus 5 from the other arms?

Bolded part is wrong, you have 6 tentacle attacks (the natural attacks of the base creature-2 for the tentacles that become feet). They aren't just 'arms treated as natural weapons'. They are natural weapons. Also, you have a bite attack you forgot to mention.

Italicized portion is also wrong. 2-level totemist dip can give you four on its own, Deformity(hand) can give you another, there are a couple spells that can give you more, the totemist dip can give you two more if you are dragonblooded.

The question about natural fists is invalid, for reasons I listed above. You'd get 1 attack per natural weapon (in your case, 6 tentacles and 1 bit), regardless of your BaB, though you could get extra attacks from your BaB by weilding a manufactured weapon and using your natural attacks, but this downgrades all your natural attacks to secondary natural weapons (which they may already be, I'm not sure).

[Boost]

The situation is as follows:

I want to build a grappling character, but grapple itself is hard to have as a main ability as it is a bit limited in use.

Based on that, I decided to go for an Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus, which will give me 6 humanoid arms treated all as natural weapons.

From then on, I intended to get multiattack feat so that I could effectively use all my arms in battle.

Also, I decided to go for the Dervish PrC, but the abilities of the class only work for slashing weapons. So I wanted to transform all my hand attacks into claw attacks, so that it would count as slashing.

Of all that I've seen until now, I only get a maximum of 2 claw attacks.

So my questions are: Is there any way of transforming all my "natural fist" attacks into claw attacks? And how many attacks to I get from haveing 6 natural weapons? 6 total or 6 for each attack form BAB? Or even 4 from BAB plus 5 from the other arms?

If you want your hands to be able to deal slashing damage, you can use the Versatile Unarmed Strike Feat from PHBII:

Prereq: Improved Unarmed Strike
Benefit: As a swift action, you can opt for your unarmed strikes to deal your choice of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Once you make this choice, your unarmed strikes continue to deal the chosen damage type until you use another swift action to change it.

This option not only gives you slashing attacks for your dervish build, but also allows you to switch back to piercing or bludgeoning when you need to for bypassing DR.

As for the number of attacks: You'd get 6 attacks, BUT if you wield a weapon in just one of your hands, THAT hand can get additional attacks based on your BAB. This is the way a Marilith works. If you had a +16 BAB, you'd get four attacks with your main hand weapon at +16/+11/+6/+1, and then one attack per each of your other 5 hands, at +11 or +14 if you have Multiattack.

You can't normally get a full set of multiple attacks for ALL of your other 5 hands, but there are options that can give you some additional attacks. Such as the Multiweapon fighting, Impr Multiweapon fighting and Greater Multiweapon fighting from Savage Species. But those feats are also for manufactured weapons held in your multiple hands, not natural attacks.

Of course, you could try to convince your DM to houserule that you can get multiple attacks with a natural weapon.

[bootzin]

All anthropomorphic animals
have humanoid arms and hands.
Quoted from Savage Species

You are right in the point that they are natural weapons, but they are humanoid arms and hands too.

I didn't know abou the totemist, but I was thinking of a single source providing them.

The natural weapons are primary with the tentacles and secondary with bite.

If I wield one manufactured weapon in each hand, how many attacks would I have then?

My doubt is because I want to know if I get 5 attacks + 4 from full BAB or 6 attacks in each attack from BAB. Or maybe something else? I'm really confused about the number of attacks that I can get, but I do want to know how much would be the maximum, more for rules clarification than anything else. I've seen posts saying that I get 24 attacks, that I could throw a whole lot of thrown weapons due to the number of arms, but I haven't really found the rules for this :/

EDIT----

Thanks for the Reply, guys, that helped a lot. And I think that feat would suffice, thanks for the tip (:

That means that I could get 9 attacks in a single round considering one arm wielding a manufactured weapon, right?
And what if all of them are wielding manufactured weapons? Can I still make 9 attacks with it considering the multiweapon fighting feat?

And one last doubt: I've seen an ability somewhere that I think was called Superior Multiweapon Fighting.. Does it allows me to actually benefit from my BAB with every attack?

[Darrin]

You are right in the point that they are natural weapons, but they are humanoid arms and hands too.


The text for anthropomorphic animals doesn't explicitly say that you get humanoid arms and hands, although the artwork on page 215 sort of implies this. If we go by the strict rules text, you get all the natural attacks of the base creature except for two, which become your legs. You'll want to clarify with the DM if he wants to say that you get actual hands at the end of every tentacle, but if we go by the strict text of the rules, they are still treated as "tentacle" attacks even though they may now look like arms/hands.

As far as Dervish goes, the only ability that really requires slashing weapons is Dervish Dance. We can make unarmed strikes deal slashing damage with the Versatile Unarmed Strike feat (PHBII), but turning tentacles into claws... that's a bit more complicated. But if all you want is slashing weapons, then we don't need to add claws... regardless of whether you have hands at the ends of your tentacles, the text says they can now wield weapons: "An anthropomorphic animal has the natural attacks of the base creature, but it can also use weapons if it did not have hands already." So all you need here is to take the Multi-Weapon Fighting feat, and you can wield six scimitars, one for each tentacle. Even better, the Dervish's Slashing Blades ability lets you treat them as light weapons.

Unfortunately, as your tentacles are busy wielding scimitars, you don't get to use them as natural weapons. But if you need more arms, there are other ways to add them (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15034740&postcount=11).



I didn't know abou the totemist, but I was thinking of a single source providing them.


The Girallon Arms soulmeld is a little tricky, as it doesn't say if the extra pair of arms overlaps on top of your existing arms/claw attacks. Adding the Claws of the Wyrm soulmeld on top of Girallon Arms is also not clear if you can designate which arms get which claws, or if they just overlap each other. You *can* get six claw attacks at once with both Girallon Arms and Lamia Belt bound to your totem chakra, but you need the Double Chakra feat and 9 meldshaper levels to get that to work.



If I wield one manufactured weapon in each hand, how many attacks would I have then?


If you add Multi-Weapon Fighting, one primary weapon, five offhand weapons, and one secondary bite attack.



My doubt is because I want to know if I get 5 attacks + 4 from full BAB or 6 attacks in each attack from BAB.


If you're using Multi-Weapon Fighting, your primary weapon would get iterative attacks based on your BAB. You'd have five offhand attacks with just Multi-Weapon Fighting. If you add Improved Multi-Weapon Fighting (from Savage Species or the Divine section of the SRD), you'd get ten offhand attacks, and Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting would give you fifteen offhand attacks. You wouldn't get any tentacle attacks because they are busy wielding weapons. You would still get the bite attack as a secondary natural attack (as it's only busy wielding teeth).



I've seen posts saying that I get 24 attacks, that I could throw a whole lot of thrown weapons due to the number of arms, but I haven't really found the rules for this :/


With 16+ BAB and all three Multi-Weapon Fighting feats, you'd get about 20 attacks:

4 iterative attacks with your primary weapon
15 offhand attacks
1 secondary bite attack

Rapid Shot could add another attack on top of that, but you'd take a -2 penalty on all your attacks for that round. Snap Kick (Tome of Battle) could add another attack, as would adding more natural weapons, grafts, magic items, spell effects, etc.



That means that I could get 9 attacks in a single round considering one arm wielding a manufactured weapon, right?


Yes. Primary would get 4 iterative attacks, and then your 5 remaining tentacles are either wielding offhand weapons, or making secondary natural attacks.



And what if all of them are wielding manufactured weapons? Can I still make 9 attacks with it considering the multiweapon fighting feat?


Yep. Plus the bite.



And one last doubt: I've seen an ability somewhere that I think was called Superior Multiweapon Fighting.. Does it allows me to actually benefit from my BAB with every attack?

This part of the Multi-Headed template (also in Savage Species). This would add two racial HD to the build along with LA +2, and you'd be limited to only one extra head on a medium-sized creature. Even though you'd have two heads and six arms, the rules text says your attack penalties for wielding multiple weapons is zero, and the number of attacks and damage for each weapon is calculated as if it were a primary weapon. So if you had 16+ BAB and were wielding six manufactured weapons, you'd get 24 attacks with no Multi-Weapon Fighting penalties.

If you ever found a DM insane enough to allow such a thing... it would be GLORIOUS.

[Psyren]

Quoted from Savage Species

You are right in the point that they are natural weapons, but they are humanoid arms and hands too.

That line doesn't mean all the tentacles become arms and hands. It means your anthropomorphic octopus has a bunch of tentacles (like an octopus), as well as two legs and two arms with hands on the end (like a human.)

[Necroticplague]

If I wield one manufactured weapon in each hand, how many attacks would I have then?Attacks granted by BaB+5. Multiweapon fighting uses the same rules as two-weapon fighting, except that you have more than one offhand (and obviously, use the MWF line instead of TWF line).


My doubt is because I want to know if I get 5 attacks + 4 from full BAB or 6 attacks in each attack from BAB. Or maybe something else? I'm really confused about the number of attacks that I can get, but I do want to know how much would be the maximum, more for rules clarification than anything else. I've seen posts saying that I get 24 attacks, that I could throw a whole lot of thrown weapons due to the number of arms, but I haven't really found the rules for this :/The people who said 24 attacks are full of it. You'd get the attacks from your BaB with your main hand weapons, then one per weapon in your off-hand. Feel free to throw in your natural attacks as secondary natural weapons to all of this (though that downgrades them to secondary naturaal weapons, all the better to go with Multiattack).


That means that I could get 9 attacks in a single round considering one arm wielding a manufactured weapon, right?
And what if all of them are wielding manufactured weapons? Can I still make 9 attacks with it considering the multiweapon fighting feat?Answered about your attack amount above.


And one last doubt: I've seen an ability somewhere that I think was called Superior Multiweapon Fighting.. Does it allows me to actually benefit from my BAB with every attack?
Nope, not that I know. The closest I could find was Superior Two Weapon Fighting, which merely eliminated the penalties (and was provided by the multiheaded template).

Edit:

If you're using Multi-Weapon Fighting, your primary weapon would get iterative attacks based on your BAB. You'd have five offhand attacks with just Multi-Weapon Fighting. If you add Improved Multi-Weapon Fighting (from Savage Species or the Divine section of the SRD), you'd get ten offhand attacks, and Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting would give you fifteen offhand attacks. You wouldn't get any tentacle attacks because they are busy wielding weapons. You would still get the bite attack as a secondary natural attack (as it's only busy wielding teeth).Hey, where's the bolded part in the rules? I can never find it as a rule, though I see people mention it all the time.

[Darrin]

Hey, where's the bolded part in the rules? I can never find it as a rule, though I see people mention it all the time.

This is one of the more notorious "unwritten rules". It's not in the text anywhere. It has to be inferred from the stat blocks in the Monster Manual. Whenever a creature is listed with both manufactured and natural weapons in the same full attack, they lose the natural weapon that is wielding a manufactured weapon. The troglodyte is a good example:

"Full Attack:
Club +1 melee (1d6) and claw –1 melee (1d4) and bite –1 melee (1d4);
or 2 claws +1 melee (1d4) and bite –1 melee (1d4);
or javelin +1 ranged (1d6)"
(line breaks added for clarity)

If you want to argue by strict RAW that an anthropomorphic octopus gets six weapon attacks *and* six tentacle attacks... good luck with that.

[Bronk]

One way to do this is to be a monk and take two levels of 'Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries' from Draconomicon, giving you 'claws of the dragon', which turns all unarmed strikes into slashing weapons.

[atemu1234]

That line doesn't mean all the tentacles become arms and hands. It means your anthropomorphic octopus has a bunch of tentacles (like an octopus), as well as two legs and two arms with hands on the end (like a human.)

In fact, later in that same section (unless I am mistaken) they say that creatures with multiple limbs keep those limbs. Which is easily breakable.

[Darrin]

In fact, later in that same section (unless I am mistaken) they say that creatures with multiple limbs keep those limbs. Which is easily breakable.

The text also says:

"Attacks that rely on a nonhumanoid shape, such as hind-leg rakes, trampling, or a snake's constriction, are no longer available."

Since humanoids don't have tentacles...

Yeah... Savage Species was a bit of a "hot mess".

[bootzin]

But that quote of yours is regarding special attacks..
A tentacle is nothing but a normal natural attack, nothing special about it..

One could argue that the anthro loses his improved grab ability, although that is not strictly related to tentacles themselves.. But he definitely doesn't lose his 6 attacks