Monk variant

[thecrimsondawn]

Hi all,
I was thinking about making alt class features for the base monk class that work just like any other var class options. If I was to do that, would it be ok to post it here when it is done to get opinions on it/for players to use?

It always bugged me that there where monks, who spent time in an order gaining various supernatural ability's and no real martial artistes (tome of battle aside)

About to head to work now, so asking ahead of time :)

[Telonius]

The Homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design) forum would be the place for it. And absolutely, post for comments! That's what the forum is for.

Monk is one of those classes that generates a lot of controversy, and there are already a ton of homebrew Monk variants because of that. So, do be aware that at least 12 years worth of Playgrounders (many of whom are very experienced theoretical optimization folks) have been banging their heads against the Monk problem.

[(Un)Inspired]

What is a real martial artist?

[Flickerdart]

What is a real martial artist?
I'm guessing OP means mundanes who kick butt through intense training and sweet techniques, instead of being able to phase through walls while speaking to rocks.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm guessing OP means mundanes who kick butt through intense training and sweet techniques, instead of being able to phase through walls while speaking to rocks.

Isn't phasing through a wall a sweet technique?

Can't a fighter potentially kick butt, qualify as a mundane and use sweet techniques? Does that make them real martial artists?

Why is this the set of criteria that qualifies one for being a real martial artist?

[Ephemeral_Being]

Why is this the set of criteria that qualifies one for being a real martial artist?

Well. Doing things that martial artists do? Improved Jump/Tumble, for one. Upon dodging an attack, attempting to disarm their opponent or knock them prone? More Jet Li, less Dalai Lama. I think that's one of the biggest complaints with the Monk from people just flipping through the PHB. It's not what they're expecting.

[(Un)Inspired]

Well. Doing things that martial artists do? Improved Jump/Tumble, for one. Upon dodging an attack, attempting to disarm their opponent or knock them prone? More Jet Li, less Dalai Lama. I think that's one of the biggest complaints with the Monk from people just flipping through the PHB. It's not what they're expecting.

So a martial artist is someone who does what martial artists do ? I think we might have moved into cyclical territory.

Additionally, whatever these real martial artists that the OP is searching for are, we know that the only currently existing classes that qualify are in ToB.

I believe this means that classes like the fighter or rogue are not real martial artists but can dodge attacks, disarm their opponent and knock them prone. Doesn't this mean that those acts are not what qualifies a class as a "real martial artist"?

[thecrimsondawn]

The idea I have will be very TOB compliant, I always felt that that book was missing a monk type class
You got warblade that is more or less fighter done right
You get swordsage that is like 3 prestige classes worth of rogue options
and you get Crusader that is like a Paladin

I know that swordsage has the unarmed option, but that still does not fix the core issues.

[Karl Aegis]

The idea I have will be very TOB compliant, I always felt that that book was missing a monk type class
You got warblade that is more or less fighter done right
You get swordsage that is like 3 prestige classes worth of rogue options
and you get Crusader that is like a Paladin

I know that swordsage has the unarmed option, but that still does not fix the core issues.

You mean the issue that every initiator has 1-4 disciplines with unarmed strike as an associated weapon?

[RedMage125]

Pathfinder has a new book coming out called Pathfinder Unchained that will be out in late April and will have new variant versions of Monk and Barbarian.

They realized that they pretty much have their own system now, and there was no need to adhere to D&D's templates for those classes.

[gorfnab]

You could do something like:
1. Barbarian - Spirit Totem: Lion ACF (CC), Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA) or Ferocity (Citys), City Brawler ACF (Drg#349) , Skilled City Dweller (Citys, trade Ride for Tumble)
2. Barbarian - Wolf Totem ACF (UA)
X. Warblade
X. Shou Disciple (optional)
X. Bloodclaw Master (optional)

Throwing on stuff like Snap Kick, Stormgaurd Warrior, Robilar's Gambit, Stand Still and what not will make a decent unarmed combatant that looks similar to a "monk".

[thecrimsondawn]

You could do something like:
1. Barbarian - Spirit Totem: Lion ACF (CC), Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA) or Ferocity (Citys), City Brawler ACF (Drg#349) , Skilled City Dweller (Citys, trade Ride for Tumble)
2. Barbarian - Wolf Totem ACF (UA)
X. Warblade
X. Shou Disciple (optional)
X. Bloodclaw Master (optional)

Throwing on stuff like Snap Kick, Stormgaurd Warrior, Robilar's Gambit, Stand Still and what not will make a decent unarmed combatant that looks similar to a "monk".

But you see, you should never HAVE to do that.

The way I see it, pathfinder had the right idea
Core classes should have plenty of easy to find and use options, always get useful skills and progression and have a capstone that is good enough to question if multiclassing is worth it.

What I dont agree with is how pathfinder kinda deviated away from prestige classes so hard, that many of my top faves (loremaster for one) where nerfed rather roughly.

In my eyes, everything you can do in d&d could be thought of a pie chart, where a base class is a small slice of that pie. A prestige class is an even smaller slice of that pie, but as a trade off, the things that slice does far away blows the base class out the water.