Feats Which Grant Other Feats?

[Rubik]

I'm after as many feats as is possible to get on a level 21 character, and I've just about expended the possibilities of feats granted by WBL, class, and race.

Next up: feats which grant other feats, even indirectly, or with additional expenditures of resources.

Vow of Poverty, of course, which gives you a number of different feats (most of which should be subbed out via the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, but that's another matter altogether).

Shape Soulmeld grants one of (potentially) several feats, depending on which soulmeld you shape and then bind.

Obtain Familiar grants Alertness, as well as whatever feats the familiar may have natively, as well as whatever you can eke out using Share Spells and Heroics, or whatever.

Psicrystal Affinity grants Alertness as well, as well as all the feats granted by the psicrystal's racial HD. Not to mention Share Powers and StP/Chirurgery'd Heroics and so on. Feat Leech can turn these feats into your feats directly.

Leadership grants you potentially hundreds of NPCs, each with feats of their own, which you can then use directly through Feat Leech, Metaconcert, Fusion, etc.

Item Familiar and Ancestral Relic, assuming you put item abilities in them which grant bonus feats.

This is all I can come up with at the moment, though I'm sure there are others.

[Jack_Simth]

Persistent Spell, when combined with the Bite of the [X] line grants some feats - Weapon Finess, Power Attack, Blind Fight, and Multiattack, depending on which spell. Combine with Favor of the Martyr and you get Endurance. Nightstalker's Transformation grants Weapon Finess, Strategic Charge gives Mobility.

[Know(Nothing)]

Hand Crossbow Focus from DotU is both Weapon Focus and Rapid Reload in one feat.

[Rubik]

Hand Crossbow Focus from DotU is both Weapon Focus and Rapid Reload in one feat.I don't think that counts. It doesn't give you the feats; it just gives you benefits similar to the feats, and it counts for prereqs.

Close, but not quite what I'm looking for. Note that this is for DCFSing into other feats. Abusive, but it's epic level; what else would I do?


Persistent Spell, when combined with the Bite of the [X] line grants some feats - Weapon Finess, Power Attack, Blind Fight, and Multiattack, depending on which spell. Combine with Favor of the Martyr and you get Endurance. Nightstalker's Transformation grants Weapon Finess, Strategic Charge gives Mobility.I can see this, and it's a good addition to the list. Persist is great, though in my particular case, I've already got the font of power/Temporal Reiteration hack going, so I can Persist+, basically for free.

[Vhaidara]

Note that this is for DCFSing into other feats. Abusive, but it's epic level; what else would I do?

Actually, if you're usin DCFS, couldn't you just cast Bite of the X, Shuffle it, dismiss Bite of the X, rinse and repeat ad infinitum?

[Rubik]

Actually, if you're usin DCFS, couldn't you just cast Bite of the X, Shuffle it, dismiss Bite of the X, rinse and repeat ad infinitum?No, because at that point Bite of the X is giving you whatever feat it is that you DCFS'd out for, so dismissing it would also dismiss the new feat.

[Cruiser1]

Persistent Spell, when combined with the Bite of the [X] line grants some feats - Weapon Finess, Power Attack, Blind Fight, and Multiattack, depending on which spell. Combine with Favor of the Martyr and you get Endurance. Nightstalker's Transformation grants Weapon Finess, Strategic Charge gives Mobility.
Other spells that actually grant feats, which can be Persisted to have them permanently (may require Reach Spell or Ocular Spell to actually make persistable) include:


Bite of the Werebear (Blind-Fight, Power Attack)
Bite of the Wereboar (Blind-Fight)
Bite of the Wererat (Weapon-Finesse)
Favor of the Martyr (Endurance)
Heroics (any Fighter)
Mirror Move (any visible effect non-metamagic feat from another person)
Substitute Domain (if you have a domain, and your patron deity has another domain which grants a feat)
Unfailing Endurance (Endurance)

[Vhaidara]

No, because at that point Bite of the X is giving you whatever feat it is that you DCFS'd out for, so dismissing it would also dismiss the new feat.

Does it? I thought this might be one of those areas where DCFS breaks things (like how Elves can shuffle out 4 MWP)

[Rubik]

Does it? I thought this might be one of those areas where DCFS breaks things (like how Elves can shuffle out 4 MWP)Well, elves can shuffle out their Weapon Proficiency feats, as can all the classes that the Armor & Shield Proficiency feats say get them (anything that's not wizard, sorcerer, and monk, basically).

But the spell is still granting you the feat; it just happens to be filtered through the DCFS. Remove the spell, and that feat (whatever it happens to be by then) goes bye bye.

[Chronos]

Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment gives you the domain power of any one cleric domain, and several of those grant feats. The War domain grants two.

[Darrin]

Planar Touchstone (www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9236967&postcount=3) (Planar Handbook) and Touchstone (Sandstone) can be used to pick up feats. I'm quite fond of using Catalogues of Enlightenment to get the War domain power, pick up both EWP and Weapon Focus with only one feat.

[Necroticplague]

There's an Illithid Heritage feat that grants you Ability Focus with something as a bonus feat. The exact details escape me.

[WhamBamSam]

Shape Soulmeld grants one of (potentially) several feats, depending on which soulmeld you shape and then bind.I don't think this is the case. All the soulmelds I can think of just give you the benefits of feats, which are a defined thing subtly different from the feat itself. (The benefit is the bit that goes under "Benefit" in the feat description, which is fine if you actually want the feat, but not if you want to Chaos Shuffle it or use it for qualification purposes.)

Re: Catalogues of Enlightenment. Note that this means Planar Touchstone is a 1:3 feat for Chaos Shuffling purposes, since you can shuffle the two War Domain feats and then the Planar Touchstone feat itself.

[Chronos]

Not under Rubik's (unorthodox, but less broken) interpretation, that the shuffled feat is still coming from the same source. Under that interpretation, if you shuffled away the Planar Touchstone feat, then you'd lose the feats you gained from it. It's still two-for-one, though.

[Rubik]

I don't think this is the case. All the soulmelds I can think of just give you the benefits of feats, which are a defined thing subtly different from the feat itself. (The benefit is the bit that goes under "Benefit" in the feat description, which is fine if you actually want the feat, but not if you want to Chaos Shuffle it or use it for qualification purposes.Maybe, but I know that astral vambraces can grant Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Natural Attack, Mobility, or Power Attack.


Re: Catalogues of Enlightenment. Note that this means Planar Touchstone is a 1:3 feat for Chaos Shuffling purposes, since you can shuffle the two War Domain feats and then the Planar Touchstone feat itself.You wouldn't be able to sub out Planar Touchstone, but you still get an extra feat out of the deal, which is still excellent.

[WhamBamSam]

Maybe, but I know that astral vambraces can grant Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Natural Attack, Mobility, or Power Attack.Huh. Yeah, you're right. It looks like the vambraces do work. Neat. You need them bound to your arms chakra to accomplish that though.

[Rubik]

Huh. Yeah, you're right. It looks like the vambraces do work. Neat. You need them bound to your arms chakra to accomplish that though.Binding them via psionics is easy enough. Also, through feats and spells and meldshaping classes.

[WhamBamSam]

Binding them via psionics is easy enough. Also, through feats.True. Doing it through feats kinda defeats the point of this exercise though, since it's effectively locking down two feats for one shuffleable feat based on your reading of the rules. But yes, opening the chakra via powers or spells is a viable way to go.

Is there a level stub for this ultra-feat build or is that still in flux?

[Rubik]

True. Doing it through feats kinda defeats the point of this exercise though, since it's effectively locking down two feats for one shuffleable feat based on your reading of the rules. But yes, opening the chakra via powers or spells is a viable way to go.

Is there a level stub for this ultra-feat build or is that still in flux?The vast majority of the feats are from DCFS'd items, primarily weapons crafted using the properties lifted from the Battleaxe of the Bull, Breaking Blade, Disarming Flail, Glorious Pearl, Mighty Sweeping, Ioun Blade (with a dark blue ioun stone), and Pearl Trident properties. Each weapon also has the ringsword property and a poison ring which also has the above properties (sans ringsword, of course).

I started with two arms, got a pair of warforged mighty arms grafts, and use the arms of the naga from Savage Species (since having arms doesn't preclude them). Also, Extra Item Space (Ring/Hand) and Extra Rings, so I can wear extra rings directly and wield additional weapons. And then we have direct enhancements, from things like monk and Ancestral Relic (Fists).

Ringsword weapons:

Sleeve blades (6)
Knee blades (2)
Boot blades (2)
Braid blade (1)
Tail scythe/club (1)
Hand-held weapon (6)
Armor spikes (1)
Animated shield bash (1)
Shield spikes (1)
Horned helm (1)
Unarmed strike (1)
Fists (6)
Battlefist (6)
Bracers of striking (3)
Necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Chronocharm of the celestial wanderer/necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Chronocharm of the fateweaver/necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Chronocharm of the grand master/necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Chronocharm of the laughing rogue/necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Chronocharm of the horizon walker/necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Chronocharm of the uncaring archmage/necklace of natural weapons (unarmed strike/claw/claw/bite) (4)
Poison ring (8+66)

[Zubrowka74]

Nobody mentioned the Otyugh Hole yet?

[Rubik]

Nobody mentioned the Otyugh Hole yet?Is that a feat which grants another feat? Because I'm pretty sure it's not...

[Jack_Simth]

Is that a feat which grants another feat? Because I'm pretty sure it's not...
Magical location, Complete Scoundrel, grants Iron Will. There's a couple of others in the same book that grant other benefits, but no, not a feat.

[Seerow]

Magical location, Complete Scoundrel, grants Iron Will. There's a couple of others in the same book that grant other benefits, but no, not a feat.

He mentioned that he already got as many feats as he could via WBL (which finding an Otyugh Hole I think counts towards. Something like 2k gold), so it wouldn't be worth mentioning. Specifically since it is not a feat.

[georgie_leech]

If you're using the somewhat sane interpretation that once you've gained a Feat from a source (like a spell), taking away the source would remove the Feat altogether, why do other Feats get a pass? If I have Feat X that grants Feat Y, why wouldn't I lose Feat Y (or whatever it gets changed to) if I DCFS away Feat X?

[Seerow]

If you're using the somewhat sane interpretation that once you've gained a Feat from a source (like a spell), taking away the source would remove the Feat altogether, why do other Feats get a pass? If I have Feat X that grants Feat Y, why wouldn't I lose Feat Y (or whatever it gets changed to) if I DCFS away Feat X?

I would assume he's just looking to get some free feat benefits on top of his DCFed feats. Or is looking for feats that grant more than one feat (examples he gave included stuff like Vow of Poverty, where he could spend one feat and gain 10 of them).

[Rubik]

If you're using the somewhat sane interpretation that once you've gained a Feat from a source (like a spell), taking away the source would remove the Feat altogether, why do other Feats get a pass? If I have Feat X that grants Feat Y, why wouldn't I lose Feat Y (or whatever it gets changed to) if I DCFS away Feat X?Seerow hit it, yes. But note that I'm not DCFS'ing away feat X. I'm DCFS'ing away feat Y and keeping feat X for whatever other benefits it provides.


I would assume he's just looking to get some free feat benefits on top of his DCFed feats. Or is looking for feats that grant more than one feat (examples he gave included stuff like Vow of Poverty, where he could spend one feat and gain 10 of them).Yes, this. Of course, I'm not using VoP (bleh), but it IS an example, and I included it for completion's sake.

[edit] The Skin of the Construct feat grants any of the Menu A abilities from an Astral Construct for a short time. Persist or otherwise extend the duration of the Astral Construct feat (such as through the constructor PrC) to improve the effect considerably.


He mentioned that he already got as many feats as he could via WBL (which finding an Otyugh Hole I think counts towards. Something like 2k gold), so it wouldn't be worth mentioning. Specifically since it is not a feat.Actually, I skipped the magical locations. I can craft for REEEEEEEEEEEALLY cheap (5% cost, for most items, far less for others), and so adding a half-dozen feats on a weapon is way cheaper than any magical location you could name.

[edit] I decided to take Psionic Body and then Psionic Talent 700 times, just for shiggles. That, and there just aren't enough decent feats to fill out over 1,400 slots.