[3.5] Shadow sun ninja - questions + advice

[Raezeman]

Greetings,

I'm working on a character concept, a shadow sun ninja (tome of battle) and as i never played a monk nor TOB class character before, i seek advice and have questions.

The build for now is:
monk 2/ swordsage 3/ shadow sun ninja 10.
Feats i'm almost certain off:
1: weapon finesse:
3: shadow blade
monk1: stunning fist
monk2: combat reflexes.

As you can see, i want to dump strength and be a DEX and WIS based character. Feel free to advice on these feats so far, but i mostly need opinions on the what feats are next:

superior unarmed strike: is the extra damage worth it?
Improved natural attack: is the extra damage worth it?
Law devotion: worth to take it without turning?
Improved trip: is needing combat expertise worth this?
Robilar's gambit: bab 12, really? how do i get this?
karmic strike: worth the dodge to take this?
rapid stunning + sun school: combining these 2 for the 'stun + stun = confusion' maneuvre worth the 2 feats.
And in general, what feats am i overlooking here?

Then, completely different question: do that WIS to ac bonus from monk and swordsage stack with eachother?

And finally, i haven't actually looked much at the maneuvres yet, but feel free to already give me advice on that one.

The race of this character will probably be raptoran, for story based purposes.

Most advice is welcome. Advice such as 'monk sucks, just go full warblade' is not so much appreciated...

Thanks!

[FocusWolf413]

Shadow sun ninja is a trap. Do monk 2 Swordsage 18 if you insist on multiclassing.

Adaptive style, darkstalker, craven, and staggering strike are amazing feats for you.

[Raezeman]

Shadow sun ninja is a trap. Do monk 2 Swordsage 18 if you insist on multiclassing.

Adaptive style, darkstalker, craven, and staggering strike are amazing feats for you.

Craven and staggering strike are sneak attack feats, so that doesn't work, right?

[FocusWolf413]

Assassin's stance gives you 2d6 sneak attack damage. When you're not in the stance, you don't get the benefits of those feats.

[Troacctid]

superior unarmed strike: is the extra damage worth it?
Improved natural attack: is the extra damage worth it?
Eh, probably not, since you could just be using an actual weapon. You'd probably get more benefit out of Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain) and leaving unarmed strike as your backup weapon.


Improved trip: is needing combat expertise worth this?
It's pretty solid if you're planning to focus on the Setting Sun maneuvers that let you trip with Dexterity rather than Strength, but otherwise, it really wants a high Strength score.


Then, completely different question: do that WIS to ac bonus from monk and swordsage stack with eachother?
Monks get the bonus when they're unarmored, Swordsages get the bonus when they wear light armor, so they're mutually exclusive.


And in general, what feats am i overlooking here?
I'll second the recommendation of Darkstalker. Very important to have if you want to be stealthy. I'll also second Adaptive Style--it's just a generally useful feat for a Swordsage to have. It's not something you want to use if you can avoid it, since spending a full-round action to do nothing is never good, but it is sometimes going to be necessary, and when it is, you'll be glad you have it.


And finally, i haven't actually looked much at the maneuvres yet, but feel free to already give me advice on that one.
Swordsages have a lot of sweet maneuvers to choose from, but once you go into Shadow Sun Ninja you'll be locked into Setting Sun and Shadow Hand. So if you want maneuvers from other disciplines, make sure to pick them up before you prestige.

One that you probably won't want to miss is Mountain Hammer. You have to have your feet on the ground to use it, but it bypasses damage reduction and hardness and deals 2d6 extra damage. It's great for smashing any objects that get in your way, since no matter how tough they are, you have unlimited uses and you'll break through them eventually. It's also very useful to have against enemies with DR.

The Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers are also very good. Mobility is extremely important for a melee combatant. You need to be able to get around unfavorable terrain and escape from any sort of effect that hinders your movement.

Sudden Leap may also be good for you with your +10 racial bonus to Jump.

[FocusWolf413]

I forgot the name, but one 2nd level shadow hand maneuver gives you greater invisibility. Take that. Diamond mind maneuvers of all kinds, particularly mind over body and the various nightmare blades, are heavenly. Check out the various swordsage handbooks for more.

I would highly recommend reducing the amount of levels in shadow sun ninja. It's generally not worth taking more than a couple levels. Touch of the shadow sun+Tomb Tainted Soul is beautiful.

Your race actually suggests using tiger claw maneuvers.

[justiceforall]

Assassin's stance gives you 2d6 sneak attack damage. When you're not in the stance, you don't get the benefits of those feats.

If your GM actually cares about RAW, I don't believe this works (although it appears to be a common house-rule). I recommend you ask permission of your GM.

[Darrin]

If your GM actually cares about RAW, I don't believe this works (although it appears to be a common house-rule). I recommend you ask permission of your GM.

Craven requires sneak attack as a class feature, as Curmudgeon likes to point out. Staggering Strike (like most other sneak attack feats) just requires sneak attack and +6 BAB.

As far as class features go... at my table, you get stances as a class feature. Assassin's Stance gives you 2d6 sneak attack, so that's a class feature as far as I'm concerned.

[Snowbluff]

I like Sand Dancer and Pharaoh's Fist from Sandstorm. Necropolitan SSNinja are fun.

Snap Kick would be worth it, if you can fit it in.

Rolimbar's > Karmic.

[justiceforall]

As far as class features go... at my table, you get stances as a class feature. Assassin's Stance gives you 2d6 sneak attack, so that's a class feature as far as I'm concerned.

Spells are a class feature as well though yes? I was told I couldn't get into Hulking Hurler even though I could cast Enlarge Person.

Regardless, asking the GM is probably a good idea anyway in the interests of avoiding head injuries caused by flying books?


Additional - if the OP intends to take more than one level of SSN, I also recommend they check the Disfunctional Rules thread(s) and find the SSN abilities that do not work as intended and get the GM to house-rule them for you.

[Darrin]

Spells are a class feature as well though yes? I was told I couldn't get into Hulking Hurler even though I could cast Enlarge Person.


Temporary spell effects don't count for meeting prereqs, but you can pay for a casting permanency on the enlarge person. You'll lose all your class features if it gets dispelled, though.

[Twurps]

I forgot the name, but one 2nd level shadow hand maneuver gives you greater invisibility. Take that.


it's Cloak of deception.
If you like invisiblity (And who wouldn't), there's an ACF for Monk called invisible fist (EoE) that gives greater invisibility once every 4 rounds. You give up evasion for it, but that's what a ring of evasion is for.