View Full Version : Rethinking the mage (Pathfinder)

2015-03-12, 08:40 PM
So I want to roll Wizards and Sorcerers into a single class, but I despise the arcanist.

The combined class will be called Sorcerer and will have two paths for entry: Sage (book sorcerer) or Blood Mage (bloodline sorcerer). No bonded items or familiars, neither fits into my world, though I'm considering leaving the ability to have a familiar in the rules. Either path would have shared abilities but there will be specialities to separate one from the other, much like Rangers.

I love Bloodlines and Favored/restricted schools and all the bonuses you get from both but I don't know how to combine them. In short, I need help. Any thoughts?

2015-03-12, 08:54 PM
Spell books aren't necessary as when you learn a spell, you are able to call forth the spell you want anytime until you lack the energy to cast spells of that tier (read level). Instead, spellbooks are mostly fluff as they are merely a record of a Sage's forays into the arcane. A Sage can use his spell book to copy down other Sages spells and, after careful study and practice (or one level), the sage may add that spell to their spell list.

2015-03-14, 12:07 PM
So the Wizard class loses its familiar/bonded object and is now a Sorcerer (Sage), but all spells known may be cast spontaneously? That sounds like a significant improvement to me, depending on the availability of spells and the nature of the customization options. I'd recommend having some limit on the number of spells known at one time, but that might be too much like the Arcanist for your liking. It might be helpful if you explained why the Arcanist is not what you are looking for.

Also, what exactly is the draw of combining the two classes versus homebrewing the Wizard to work a bit differently? You seem to make distinctions between the two kinds of Sorcerer from the outset (the sources of their magic), but then you mention a desire to combine bloodlines and favored schools which seems it might negate that distinction. Clarification on this issue would also be helpful.

2015-03-14, 11:03 PM
I had hoped with the arcanist that the best abilities of both the wizard and sorcerer would be combined and we would have a cool mage class. Instead, we have a caster who has a ki like pool of energy, a convuluted prepping system, and a crude attempt at Mage type Rogue Talents. The arcanist adds multiple layers of needless complexity to an already complex game. As such, I can't stand them.

Conversely, I do like the idea of a Sorcerer being able to choose a different ability every say 3 levels, like a rogue or barb.

I think it would be cool to have a new ability every few levels, with advanced options becoming available later on.

If you chose the Blood Mage path, bloodline powers would take the place of some of your options at 3rd, 9th, 15th, and 20th levels, maybe. At 1st level, a Blood Mage would choose his heritage and gain a physical abnormality corresponding to his bloodline, something to mark him for what he is.

A Sage would gain two Sorcerer Talents at first level instead of the bloodline and have the option to choose all of his future Talents.

EDIT: the reason I wish to combine the two is mostly from a campaign setting standpoint and I don't think, with them being so similar, there is a good enough reason for the two to be separate.

2015-03-14, 11:42 PM
Write a Sorcerer archetype that switches your casting stat to Int and includes wizard-y powers? Say, trading your Bloodline and Escrow Materials for Scribe Scroll, bonus metamagic feats, and +1 spell known/spell level?

2015-03-15, 12:00 AM
I think taking the wizard abilities from the schools of magic, with those available at 8th level as advanced talents, and making them a list of options would work.

IMO, the schools of magic are a good example of prime material plane magic whereas bloodlines are extra dimensional race magic manifested in the material plane due to demonic/celestial/draconic/etc. dabbling. So a Sage should be able to choose from a list of school magic abilities to better reflect the constantly changing interests of the sage.

A little context, which may/may not help:
In my setting, magic is manifested by using your will to force the spell into the physical world. Complex verbal, somatic, and material components are unnecessary, only a simple gesture or word is enough for you to visualize the change you wish to cause. As such, you don't need to meditate or study everyday, you just need 8 hours to rest to replenish your energy.

2015-03-15, 12:16 AM
I toyed with the idea of just having standard sorcerers with the wizard as an archetype but I felt it didn't preserve the flavor of both classes like I wanted.

As an aside, Eschew Materials has been removed since my group doesn't keep up with material components in standard PF games and because material components are unnecessary to cast spells in my world, barring higher powered spells like resurrection and wish. See my last post for more details about magic in my campaign setting.

2015-03-15, 12:52 AM
Sorcerer using Words of Power but can switch out spells known at the beginning of the day to any of the words on the wizard/Sorcerer list. That would make a caster who works like a combined wizard/sorcerer but not as overpowered as a pure combination.

2015-03-15, 10:00 PM
Tvtyrant, that is one of my biggest problems. I am terrible at balance and it makes class building a nightmare, thus the post.

As to the Word Magic idea, despite liking the alternate system, I am in the process of overhauling the core system to better fit my group's playstyle so I'm sticking with the CRB only.

I'm writing up something I think will work and I'll post it later for all you lovely folks to pick over until it's balanced. Cheers.