Make my bard work?

[Chronos Flame]

So I am about to jump into a bard but while I have played very bard-like characters in the past it has only been RP-wise and this is my first actual bard. I know where my levels are going to be going but I was looking for help with making some things work. Anyway, I am looking at:

Spellscale Bard8/SublimeChord2/Dracolexi10. We rolled stats and I have a very good str, int, and cha. I am intending to play him very scholarly but due to backstory Snowflake wardance actually works very well so I am looking at a sort of gish?

Aaaanyway, most of what I am running into on the concept side is action economy, so are there any not entirely cheesy ways to get my buffs up quickly? For example, Dragonfire inspiration is standard, haste is standard, mirror image is standard, etc. Without changing my levels is there a way to get a couple buffs up and maybe even attack in less rounds than normally needed? feats, spells(preferably at mid levels not late) or items?

edit: I should note that I know the full caster classes for 12 levels don't help the gish idea. I know the build isn't great, I am mostly looking for a way to make it a little better and keep me from sitting out for a few rounds every time I decide to jump into melee after casting spells. Thanks!

[GreyBlack]

So I am about to jump into a bard but while I have played very bard-like characters in the past it has only been RP-wise and this is my first actual bard. I know where my levels are going to be going but I was looking for help with making some things work. Anyway, I am looking at:

Spellscale Bard8/SublimeChord2/Dracolexi10. We rolled stats and I have a very good str, int, and cha. I am intending to play him very scholarly but due to backstory Snowflake wardance actually works very well so I am looking at a sort of gish?

Aaaanyway, most of what I am running into on the concept side is action economy, so are there any not entirely cheesy ways to get my buffs up quickly? For example, Dragonfire inspiration is standard, haste is standard, mirror image is standard, etc. Without changing my levels is there a way to get a couple buffs up and maybe even attack in less rounds than normally needed? feats, spells(preferably at mid levels not late) or items?

edit: I should note that I know the full caster classes for 12 levels don't help the gish idea. I know the build isn't great, I am mostly looking for a way to make it a little better and keep me from sitting out for a few rounds every time I decide to jump into melee after casting spells. Thanks!

One thing for bard maximizing to remember is Words of Creation. This doubles your inspire courage bonus. Also, snowflake wardance only works with one handed slashing weapons, so a high str might behoove you more to go power attack than wardance.

An option might be Bard/Warblade and take the White Raven feat that lets you activate inspire courage as a swift action.

[Chronos Flame]

One thing for bard maximizing to remember is Words of Creation. This doubles your inspire courage bonus. Also, snowflake wardance only works with one handed slashing weapons, so a high str might behoove you more to go power attack than wardance.

An option might be Bard/Warblade and take the White Raven feat that lets you activate inspire courage as a swift action.

Well the wardance fits the character well, but more than that doesn't it help out to have more to hit than less considering I am missing out on a decent bit of BAB? The concept I have in mind is singing dragonfire while fighting so that dragonfire hopefully does the damage and wardance makes me more on par with the fighters to hit. It's not a super high-op group, but I don;t want to sit by and waste a lot of time buffing. I want to be able to do some of it while I do other things.

Also, yeah, absolutely words of creation. It won't be for a couple levels because of some prereqs needed for classes and such, but absolutely.

Finally, I don't think white raven feat is an option. I will ask, as it would fit, but I believe we don't have access to ToB. Also I want 2 levels of SC and all 10 of Dracolexi.

Thanks for the suggestions by the way. :)

[Hiro Quester]

Two essentials for bard action economy.

Melodic casting lets you use a perform check instead of a concentration check, and lets you cast while singing.

The level 2 spell Harmonize (RoS; 10min/level) enables to to start a bardic music as a move action.

With these two, you can sing inspire courage and cast haste in the first round.

And at very high levels Arcane Spellsurge enables you magic to speed up, so std actions become swift, and full round becomes std. action.

With that haste becomes a swift action, bardic music as a move action, and a metamagiced spell as your standard action.

And if you want to bust action economy wide open, get a belt of battle as well.

On Gish Bard:
Learn the 4th level spell Sirine's grace will add +4 dex and cha, and add your cha bonus as a deflection bonus to AC.

Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows will add your Cha bonus in fire damage to every melee attack.

The X stat to Y bonus will give you lots of other options for using your high charisma in melee.

Edit:
a wand of Heroics gets you temp use of fighter bonus feats. (Better get it on a custom runestaff). Take advantage of DFI's sweet extra dice damage to every attack, by getting more attacks. Give yourself temporary use of TWF and ITWF.
Heroics also helps versatility in other situations: invisible enemies give yourself and BSF. Use of blindfight, etc.

[dextercorvia]

The Spell Matrix line (once Sublime Chord comes online) will let you get a couple spells up as a swift action. You could also just quicken your buff spells. Belt of Battle (MIC) will get you an extra move and standard action per day for 12K. There is no attunement so you could buy a couple and switch them out between fights.

Probably the most consistent of the less cheesy ways to do this is War Weaver from HoB. I recommend something like: Bard6/Dracolexi2/WarWeaver2/SublimeChord2/WarWeaver+3/Dracolexi+5.

Dracolexi is flavorful, but its powers aren't great. If you get silenced a lot, you might trade one level of Bard, War Weaver, or Sublime Chord for that 8th level of Dracolexi, but I doubt it is worth it in most campaigns.

[Chronos Flame]

Two essentials for bard action economy.

Melodic casting lets you use a perform check instead of a concentration check, and lets you cast while singing.

The level 2 spell Harmonize (RoS; 10min/level) enables to to start a bardic music as a move action.

With these two, you can sing inspire courage and cast haste in the first round.

And at very high levels Arcane Spellsurge enables you magic to speed up, so std actions become swift, and full round becomes std. action.

With that haste becomes a swift action, bardic music as a move action, and a metamagiced spell as your standard action.

And if you want to bust action economy wide open, get a belt of battle as well.

On Gish Bard:
Learn the 4th level spell Sirine's grace will add +4 dex and cha, and add your cha bonus as a deflection bonus to AC.

Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows will add your Cha bonus in fire damage to every melee attack.

The X stat to Y bonus will give you lots of other options for using your high charisma in melee.

Edit:
a wand of Heroics gets you temp use of fighter bonus feats. (Better get it on a custom runestaff). Take advantage of DFI's sweet extra dice damage to every attack, by getting more attacks. Give yourself temporary use of TWF and ITWF.
Heroics also helps versatility in other situations: invisible enemies give yourself and BSF. Use of blindfight, etc.

Melodic Casting is in line for feats I need. I've been playing a lot of Starwars saga of late and while 3.5 is my home system it is shocking to come back after a year and be so feat-starved.

Didn't know about harmonize. That is absolutely what I want. Move actions are the one thing nothing contends for really. Thanks!

Spellsurge is certainly something I saw and will probably grab, but it too has a short duration and so it almost feels like adding a buff to quicken my buffs. That said, I will probably be doing blasting and party buffing too so I'll be getting it when I hit that level anyway.

Belt of Battle I am unsure about. I have used it before, and it is crazy good. Tooo good. >> haha. But yeah, I will likely pick one up at some point if my DM allows.

And yeah, I am debating TWF. Right now I have more STR than DEX but I can switch them. I didn't want to have to waste a feat on finesse. Think switching is worth it since SFWD covers my to-hit anyway? I was looking at draconic might as a sort-of alternative to sirine's grace if I stuck with str.

[GreyBlack]

Melodic Casting is in line for feats I need. I've been playing a lot of Starwars saga of late and while 3.5 is my home system it is shocking to come back after a year and be so feat-starved.

Didn't know about harmonize. That is absolutely what I want. Move actions are the one thing nothing contends for really. Thanks!

Spellsurge is certainly something I saw and will probably grab, but it too has a short duration and so it almost feels like adding a buff to quicken my buffs. That said, I will probably be doing blasting and party buffing too so I'll be getting it when I hit that level anyway.

Belt of Battle I am unsure about. I have used it before, and it is crazy good. Tooo good. >> haha. But yeah, I will likely pick one up at some point if my DM allows.

And yeah, I am debating TWF. Right now I have more STR than DEX but I can switch them. I didn't want to have to waste a feat on finesse. Think switching is worth it since SFWD covers my to-hit anyway? I was looking at draconic might as a sort-of alternative to sirine's grace if I stuck with str.

If I were you, I would totally grab TWF rather than a str based. Your dpr will come more from DFI than power attack. Also, TWF synergizes with the wardance better than a str based build.

[Hiro Quester]

Plus dex also adds to your AC. And ranged attacks. Get a bow of song of you do that. I would totally go dex over strength. Weapon finesse isn't necessary, even.

The bard/Sc I played until last year put everything into dex and cha. A "giant strength" belt can help.

But yes, with IC, and SFWD, your to-hit can skyrocket if you can boost CHA (as you would of course do). Even more with slippers of Battledancing (but make sure your DM agrees that the untyped bonus there stacks with that from SFWD).

My bard's to-hit was high enough that I occasionally used TWF without the feat,because I could often eat the penalties.

Of course STR is also important for damage, but the slippers of battle dancing and snowflake wardance and DFI and Gauntlets of HFB can help make at less of a issue.

War Weaver is a decent option for this character, especially if you wish to release a whole slew of buffs for your party as a swift action in the first round of combat.

If you go that route though though, make sure you get a custom runestaff to add some of the better low-level buffs that are on the wizard and sorcerer spell list but not on yours.

And keep a scroll of joyful noise on you, to counteract the silence spell your DM will inevitably heave at a Bard/Dracolexi

[Darrin]

Aaaanyway, most of what I am running into on the concept side is action economy, so are there any not entirely cheesy ways to get my buffs up quickly? For example, Dragonfire inspiration is standard, haste is standard, mirror image is standard, etc. Without changing my levels is there a way to get a couple buffs up and maybe even attack in less rounds than normally needed? feats, spells(preferably at mid levels not late) or items?

Melodic Casting will help you activate command-word items and spell-trigger items while using dragonfire inspiration/inspire courage. I'd suggest an Elvencraft (+300 GP, Races of the Wild) longbow/quarterstaff with a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape). You'll want to put a wand of instant of power (Forge of War, buy from a druid for only 750 GP) and something else with swift action activation, such as instant diversion (Races of the Dragon), swift invisibility (SC), or inspirational boost (SC). Presumably, you'll be maxing out UMD, so stock up on plenty of wands (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15150359&postcount=16). Add a Dwarven Buckler Axe (A&EG/Races of Stone) to each arm with a wand chamber, and make sure at least one has a Least Crystal of Deflection (2500 GP, MIC).

For getting a leg up on the action economy, a Masterwork Potion Belt (FRCS) full of Tempo Bloodspikes (Magic of Eberron) can be quite nifty for turning swift actions into move actions. But what you really need are Glyph Seals (1000 GP, MIC), and lots of them. You can "key" them to pockets, spell components, or arrows, which lets you activate them as free actions. If you give one to each PC, this lets you load up a 1st/2nd level buff spell that they can activate themselves, freeing up your first couple of rounds for other spells. If you'd prefer something more disposable, spell-storing arrows or shurikens cost 167 GP each and can store up to 3rd level spells. To get more buffs off, ask if Sorcerer-only spells can be learned by Sublime Chords. If so, then grab arcane fusion (Complete Mage) and arcane spellsurge (Dragon Magic).

Feats: Silverbrow Human qualifies you for Dragonfire Inspiration, but there are other Dragonblood options with additional benefits. Taking the Dragontouched feat lets you take other Dragonblooded feats as if you were a sorcerer, which lets you take Draconic Heritage to switch your Dragonfire Inspiration to a more interesting energy type. Dragonborn of Bahumat lets you swap an existing feat for Dragon Wings or Dragon Tail. If you need a feat to swap, if you want to keep your human bonus feat, or if you just want more fuel for the Dark Chaos Shuffle, you can add a couple of feats to a bard. First, if you say your bard is from Salkiria, you gain EWP: Bola Flail as a free bonus feat (Ghostwalk p. 141/errata). Second, you can use Music of Creation (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 34) to swap your Bard 6 suggestion ability for Song of the Heart or Music of Making. When you go through the Ritual of Rebirth, you can lose your EWP: Bola Flail instead of your human bonus feat and you can swap Music of Making for Dragon Wings/Tail.

Equipment: Bola Flail is actually an awesome debuffing weapon. If your DM allows you to get EWP outside of the Ghostwalk campaign setting, you might want to keep it. Playing a mandolin (Complete Adventurer p. 126) increases your Dragonfire Inspiration damage by +1d6. Playing a harmonica (Song & Silence p. 45) gives you a +4 bonus on Bluff/Diplomacy/Disguise/Gather Information checks for 1d6 hours against "simple folk". A steel flute (Secrets of Sarlona) can be used as a club, gives you a +2 bonus on countersong attempts, and can be used to steal a Grammy award from Metallica. Also, Shax's Haversack is pretty much designed to allow a bard to crack open a dungeon like a piñata and shower himself with lootcandy.

[Boost]

So I am about to jump into a bard but while I have played very bard-like characters in the past it has only been RP-wise and this is my first actual bard. I know where my levels are going to be going but I was looking for help with making some things work. Anyway, I am looking at:

Spellscale Bard8/SublimeChord2/Dracolexi10. We rolled stats and I have a very good str, int, and cha. I am intending to play him very scholarly but due to backstory Snowflake wardance actually works very well so I am looking at a sort of gish?

Aaaanyway, most of what I am running into on the concept side is action economy, so are there any not entirely cheesy ways to get my buffs up quickly? For example, Dragonfire inspiration is standard, haste is standard, mirror image is standard, etc. Without changing my levels is there a way to get a couple buffs up and maybe even attack in less rounds than normally needed? feats, spells(preferably at mid levels not late) or items?

edit: I should note that I know the full caster classes for 12 levels don't help the gish idea. I know the build isn't great, I am mostly looking for a way to make it a little better and keep me from sitting out for a few rounds every time I decide to jump into melee after casting spells. Thanks!

Use the Extend Spell feat to make some of your buffs last longer than normal. A spell that normally has a 10 min/level duration, doubled, will last for hours. A spell that normally has a 1 min/level duration, doubled, will at least last you for several battles. And a spell that normally has a 1 round/level duration, doubled, will at the very least last you long enough that you can spend a few rounds outside the door to a room, cast several spells in a row, then open the door fully buffed and still with enough duration on each buff that it will stay up.

Then when you're high enough level, your hour/level or 24 hour duration spells can start lasting more than a day. I used to cast Energy Immunity (Spell Compendium, level 7) which has a 24 hour duration, extend it to 48 hours, and be able to cast it for every energy type using only three castings per day instead of five (plus another spell, I forget which, using the same slots). Between my 2-day long spells and my regular buffs, I played a character who was walking around with over a dozen active buffs on her all the time.

Then take a feat that lets you use quicken spell as a spontaneous caster (arcane preparation?) and you can quicken-cast anything else you need mid-battle.

[Chronos Flame]

Plus dex also adds to your AC. And ranged attacks. Get a bow of song of you do that. I would totally go dex over strength. Weapon finesse isn't necessary, even.

The bard/Sc I played until last year put everything into dex and cha. A "giant strength" belt can help.

But yes, with IC, and SFWD, your to-hit can skyrocket if you can boost CHA (as you would of course do). Even more with slippers of Battledancing (but make sure your DM agrees that the untyped bonus there stacks with that from SFWD).

My bard's to-hit was high enough that I occasionally used TWF without the feat,because I could often eat the penalties.

Of course STR is also important for damage, but the slippers of battle dancing and snowflake wardance and DFI and Gauntlets of HFB can help make at less of a issue.

War Weaver is a decent option for this character, especially if you wish to release a whole slew of buffs for your party as a swift action in the first round of combat.

If you go that route though though, make sure you get a custom runestaff to add some of the better low-level buffs that are on the wizard and sorcerer spell list but not on yours.

And keep a scroll of joyful noise on you, to counteract the silence spell your DM will inevitably heave at a Bard/Dracolexi


Use the Extend Spell feat to make some of your buffs last longer than normal. A spell that normally has a 10 min/level duration, doubled, will last for hours. A spell that normally has a 1 min/level duration, doubled, will at least last you for several battles. And a spell that normally has a 1 round/level duration, doubled, will at the very least last you long enough that you can spend a few rounds outside the door to a room, cast several spells in a row, then open the door fully buffed and still with enough duration on each buff that it will stay up.

Then when you're high enough level, your hour/level or 24 hour duration spells can start lasting more than a day. I used to cast Energy Immunity (Spell Compendium, level 7) which has a 24 hour duration, extend it to 48 hours, and be able to cast it for every energy type using only three castings per day instead of five (plus another spell, I forget which, using the same slots). Between my 2-day long spells and my regular buffs, I played a character who was walking around with over a dozen active buffs on her all the time.

Then take a feat that lets you use quicken spell as a spontaneous caster (arcane preparation?) and you can quicken-cast anything else you need mid-battle.

Battledancing and TWF don't synergize very well considering the need to move for the slippers and the usual need to not move for a full attack.

As for weaver, I think I need to pass on that. I like the effects but in many ways it doesn't fit the concept, and I would like not to give up Dracolexi although I do know it is suboptimal. I will certainly be picking up a runestaff though either way.

Yeah extend will be helpful. When I hit Dracolexi4 all spells will be extended assuming my reading is not off, so that is built in.

The STR/DEX is for some reason very hard for me to decide on. STR means better to hit without a feat. It also means dragon might rather than sirine's grace, which is just a longer lasting buff I don't have to think about. Dex though unlocks twf as an option though I suppose, and any dex that is still below 28 will allow a fairly inexpensive magic armor to not restrict movement...

[Hiro Quester]

Battledancing and TWF don't synergize very well considering the need to move for the slippers and the usual need to not move for a full attack.

As for weaver, I think I need to pass on that. I like the effects but in many ways it doesn't fit the concept, and I would like not to give up Dracolexi although I do know it is suboptimal. I will certainly be picking up a runestaff though either way.

Yeah extend will be helpful. When I hit Dracolexi4 all spells will be extended assuming my reading is not off, so that is built in.

The STR/DEX is for some reason very hard for me to decide on. STR means better to hit without a feat. It also means dragon might rather than sirine's grace, which is just a longer lasting buff I don't have to think about. Dex though unlocks twf as an option though I suppose, and any dex that is still below 28 will allow a fairly inexpensive magic armor to not restrict movement...

For the need to move with Slippers: Tempo Bloodspikes get you an extra move action (with small penalties for another if you need it). A belt of battle will also grant extra move actions.

For dex and armor: Gnome Twistcloth (races of stone) has no dex limit. Nightscale also has a high dex limit. But get bracers of armor, and use the light armor simply to hold armor enhancements (like greater fortification, etc), armor crystals (e.g. greater lifekeeping).

Extend spell is essential. At high levels, with extend spell, the 10 minute/level spells (Glibness, Harmonize, Heroics, Battle Magic Perception, Dragonskin, protection from energy) become 20 min/level and can last practically all day with two castings (once in the morning, again mid-afternoon).

And consider Persistent spell at high levels. My bard was persisting a whole bunch of buffs, including, swift fly, bladeweave, Shield and Sirine's grace (used Practical Metamagic to reduce Persistent spell's level increase by 1). and 24 hour spells like MindBlank last two days.

Edit: You'd have to get your DM to agree that the Draconic word that give free extend spell should also count for the prerequisite to persistent spell.

And if your DM doesn't accept that Sublime Chord should also give you access to sorcerer spells at lower levels, invest in a custom Runestaff to learn the relevant buff spells. that's how my bard learned, Shield, Heroics, etc.

[Chronos Flame]

For the need to move with Slippers: Tempo Bloodspikes get you an extra move action (with small penalties for another if you need it). A belt of battle will also grant extra move actions.

For dex and armor: Gnome Twistcloth (races of stone) has no dex limit. Nightscale also has a high dex limit. But get bracers of armor, and use the light armor simply to hold armor enhancements (like greater fortification, etc), armor crystals (e.g. greater lifekeeping).

Extend spell is essential. At high levels, with extend spell, the 10 minute/level spells (Glibness, Harmonize, Heroics, Battle Magic Perception, Dragonskin, protection from energy) become 20 min/level and can last practically all day with two castings (once in the morning, again mid-afternoon).

And consider Persistent spell at high levels. My bard was persisting a whole bunch of buffs, including, swift fly, bladeweave, Shield and Sirine's grace (used Practical Metamagic to reduce Persistent spell's level increase by 1). and 24 hour spells like MindBlank last two days.

Edit: You'd have to get your DM to agree that the Draconic word that give free extend spell should also count for the prerequisite to persistent spell.

And if your DM doesn't accept that Sublime Chord should also give you access to sorcerer spells at lower levels, invest in a custom Runestaff to learn the relevant buff spells. that's how my bard learned, Shield, Heroics, etc.

Belt of battle may be the way to go because I think the few books we may not gain access to will be setting specific books. I know it's not really un-lore-friendly, and will of course try and bug the GM at some point for them, but tempo bloodplikes may be a no-go. It's why I may have to give up on trading a song for song of heart. We shall see.

Mithral Chain shirt will last until bracers are needed too I suppose.

Yeah, extend will happen no matter what, probably just via dracolexi. My plan for this guy is pretty starved for feats so I don't think persist and practical metamagic will work out, but that is always something to go for if and when we hit that level.

And yeah, I'll be going for a runestaff no matter what whenever I have the money and custom crafting is open to me.

Thank you!