Damage per round?

[Kd7sov]

The DMG has a section on creating monsters. A considerable portion of the part on calculating CR relies on a "damage per round" number.

How is that calculated for a creature with multiple action options? For instance, the example Werewolf, 4th Level Barbarian has its Bite, Claws, and Spear (or whatever weapon the DM may choose to substitute) options, plus the possibility of Rage that would add +2 damage - and an extra attack if they're Path of the Berserker. Things get even more complicated when magic gets involved, whether that's SLAs or Innate Spellcasting or caster levels...

So do I go by the most damaging option, regardless of its attack-roll modifiers, and take the average damage of that? Or the max? Or do I average the damage from all the options (presumably ignoring any save-for-half), including 1/day stuff? Or what?

[mephnick]

I think the assumption is you use the most damage you can possibly do.

I find the calculations in the book pretty useless, honestly. Especially for judging NPCs with class levels.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

[Sullivan]

I use it as a rule of thumb. I add together the high end and low end my my creatures damage then look at where that falls. Then the AC to find that CR and then pick a bonus that will push it up or down depending on where I want the creature to fall. I average all three CRs and it seems to work good for the most part.

My personal step by step is really easy.
My party has an average h.p of ~90 and I want to make a dude that hit's hard.
So I give it a one a day that can averages 55 points of damage(2/3rds hp).
two a days that do a modest 35-40.
and three attack that average 20ish(with one hit, so 6d6). So low end 3 high end 8 CR is 5.5
I have 7 pc at 12th level FML. 31,500 xp for a deadly, so this guy needs to be a little beefy
so an attack bonus of +8 and an AC of 17 gives me two 11's
making my CR 8ish (3,900) but they're outnumbered, so I can pull three of these guys and some mid CR adds.
and because of the final CR their h.p. is 176-190.

also a for finding average
2.5 x #d4's
3.5 x #d6's
4.5 x #d8's
5.5 x #d10's
this method isn't a 100%, but it work's fine.

side note: remember you're on your players team and you shouldn't try and kill them, but making monsters is a really fun. Once you get a good feel for how you're players like to navigate encounters(if you don't already) and build monsters around that. For me, I noticed that my caster players like to watch the melee get beat while they threw bombs from the back without consequences. I made some fast little guys that paired with a caster that could throw silences around and a wall of fire. it pushed everyone out of their comfort zone and suddenly they had to earn a win.

also watch for what feats or spells they pick. If a player has something that does cold damage throw them a creature that is weak to it, and if they have a resistance to necrotic or something, throw necrotic at em'. It's always a good feeling when you have the perfect tool for the job.

[Tenmujiin]

DPR is calculated assuming all damage rolls are average, all attacks land, all saves are failed and all AoEs hit two people (i think, it might be 3).

The monster should be assumed to use the most powerful attacks available to it and the DPR should be the average of the first three rounds for anything that has non-at will abilities.

For example, a spellcaster should have its DPR calculated at its most powerful damage spell in the first round, its second most powerful damage spell in the second and its third most powerful in the third round.

[Kd7sov]

I use it as a rule of thumb. I add together the high end and low end my my creatures damage then look at where that falls. Then the AC to find that CR and then pick a bonus that will push it up or down depending on where I want the creature to fall. I average all three CRs and it seems to work good for the most part.

My personal step by step is really easy.
My party has an average h.p of ~90 and I want to make a dude that hit's hard.
So I give it a one a day that can averages 55 points of damage(2/3rds hp).
two a days that do a modest 35-40.
and three attack that average 20ish(with one hit, so 6d6). So low end 3 high end 8 CR is 5.5
I have 7 pc at 12th level FML. 31,500 xp for a deadly, so this guy needs to be a little beefy
so an attack bonus of +8 and an AC of 17 gives me two 11's
making my CR 8ish (3,900) but they're outnumbered, so I can pull three of these guys and some mid CR adds.
and because of the final CR their h.p. is 176-190.

also a for finding average
2.5 x #d4's
3.5 x #d6's
4.5 x #d8's
5.5 x #d10's
this method isn't a 100%, but it work's fine.

side note: remember you're on your players team and you shouldn't try and kill them, but making monsters is a really fun. Once you get a good feel for how you're players like to navigate encounters(if you don't already) and build monsters around that. For me, I noticed that my caster players like to watch the melee get beat while they threw bombs from the back without consequences. I made some fast little guys that paired with a caster that could throw silences around and a wall of fire. it pushed everyone out of their comfort zone and suddenly they had to earn a win.

also watch for what feats or spells they pick. If a player has something that does cold damage throw them a creature that is weak to it, and if they have a resistance to necrotic or something, throw necrotic at em'. It's always a good feeling when you have the perfect tool for the job.

Thanks! That looks complicated at the moment, but I imagine it'll all fit once I actually try it.


DPR is calculated assuming all damage rolls are average, all attacks land, all saves are failed and all AoEs hit two people (i think, it might be 3).

The monster should be assumed to use the most powerful attacks available to it and the DPR should be the average of the first three rounds for anything that has non-at will abilities.

For example, a spellcaster should have its DPR calculated at its most powerful damage spell in the first round, its second most powerful damage spell in the second and its third most powerful in the third round.

Also thanks! Is this from somewhere in the books/website/other, or is it a personal method like Sullivan's?

[Sullivan]

I was a little out of it then I posted last night, so it's not my most concise piece of writing. It's not as complicated as I made it seem so if you need me to clarify anything let me know.