your weapon is merely a vehicle

[bjoern]

For delivering your damage bonus.(for damage dealing guys, not trippers, disarmers, etc) The difference between 1d4 and 2d6 is pretty small when you have +30 or more to damage. What really matters about your weapon is what kind of a vehicle it is. Does it have 4wd, how many people can it fit, what kind of tires?
For the weapon, what kind of immunities does it bypass, what are its damage types, reach...

For example, I got hung up for a while on wanting to use a large glaive as my reach weaponbecause of the 2d8. WHen really a Lucerne hammer is the better choice at 2d6. It has two damage types, that's twice as many times that I'm not losing my damage to DR or switching to a back up weapon for a different damage type and losing all the enchantments from my primary weapon. So for me, an adamantine Lucerne hammer along with a vial of silver sheen in my pocket allows me to deal with 4 different things thatmmight reduce or negate my damage.

Is my logic way off track?

[Maglubiyet]

Apt analogy, especially since most cars are just branding ploys to bolster a driver's self-identity (classy, practical, sporty, rugged, family, etc.)

In reality it's just a box with wheels gets 90% of us to and from a job with no particular fanfare or need for special features.

[Cruiser1]

Is my logic way off track?
Your logic is sound, at least at high levels. :smallsmile: At low levels before you have +30 to damage and combat is all about overcoming immunities, a non-masterwork 2d8 glaive is better than a non-masterwork 2d6 lucerne hammer. Similarly, at low levels AC is important, but at high levels you don't care about AC as much as miss chance.

[Elric VIII]

Damage dice only matter for 2 things: levels 1-5 and stacking size increases. Other than that, you are right.

[bjoern]

Apt analogy, especially since most cars are just branding ploys to bolster a driver's self-identity (classy, practical, sporty, rugged, family, etc.)

In reality it's just a box with wheels gets 90% of us to and from a job with no particular fanfare or need for special features.

This is somewhat true. But there's more to it than just vanity and cosmetics.

Can a ford Taurus haul my trailer?
Can a Chevy 1500?
Can a denali?

When it snows 17" overnight can my caravan get out of my garage and down the ally to the street?
Can my 4wd truck?

For me a vehicle is all about use ability. Does it let me do something other than whatiI can already do now?

Being able to have a pick up available is extremely handy for things that you wouldn't expect until you need it.

A sports car.....not so much , unless you need to tell someone " I have more money than you" and don't want to actually say it.

[Maglubiyet]

This is somewhat true. But there's more to it than just vanity and cosmetics.

I know, I was kind of having fun. For some people that statement is 100% true, but for those whose vehicle is part of what they do (work, family, or hobby), make/model/performance is extremely important. I know a lot of people in the former category.

[bjoern]

I know, I was kind of having fun. For some people that statement is 100% true, but for those whose vehicle is part of what they do (work, family, or hobby), make/model/performance is extremely important. I know a lot of people in the former category.

Oh yeah, so do I. Heck at one time I thought it actually mattered. Then I grew up. Some people never grow up.

[With a box]

If your weapon is a vehicle, then what your spellcasting is? A helicopter with missile? An ironman suit?

[bjoern]

If your weapon is a vehicle, then what your spellcasting is? A helicopter with missile? An ironman suit?

Nah, its the office depot button

Or unlimited money. Throw money at all your problems. They will either go away or be crushed to death under the weight of $100 bills.

[P.F.]

Being able to have a pick up available is extremely handy for things that you wouldn't expect until you need it.

A sports car.....not so much , unless you need to tell someone " I have more money than you" and don't want to actually say it.

Compared to a pickup truck (or sedan, SUV, etc), a real sports car (not my cousin's 1990-something mustang) will have higher top speed, faster acceleration, and a smaller turning radius. It may also have better gas milage, shorter stopping distance (relative to speed of course) and tighter transmission, ratchet shifter, etc.

Not that I need a car that can go 150 mph on residential roads. Of course, I don't need a katana either, whatever advantages it may have over a French chef's knife. An adventurer, on the other hand, might opt for the sports car, and not just because it impresses the tavern wench.

[bjoern]

Compared to a pickup truck (or sedan, SUV, etc), a real sports car (not my cousin's 1990-something mustang) will have higher top speed, faster acceleration, and a smaller turning radius. It may also have better gas milage, shorter stopping distance (relative to speed of course) and tighter transmission, ratchet shifter, etc.

Not that I need a car that can go 150 mph on residential roads. Of course, I don't need a katana either, whatever advantages it may have over a French chef's knife. An adventurer, on the other hand, might opt for the sports car, and not just because it impresses the tavern wench.

True. Rp flavor can play a heavy role when you have a certain feel in mind for your guy.

[Deophaun]

Of course, I don't need a katana either, whatever advantages it may have over a French chef's knife.
A kukri, on the other hand, is an awesome chef's knife and tree-trimming tool all in one.

[Boost]

For delivering your damage bonus.(for damage dealing guys, not trippers, disarmers, etc) The difference between 1d4 and 2d6 is pretty small when you have +30 or more to damage. What really matters about your weapon is what kind of a vehicle it is. Does it have 4wd, how many people can it fit, what kind of tires?
For the weapon, what kind of immunities does it bypass, what are its damage types, reach...

For example, I got hung up for a while on wanting to use a large glaive as my reach weaponbecause of the 2d8. WHen really a Lucerne hammer is the better choice at 2d6. It has two damage types, that's twice as many times that I'm not losing my damage to DR or switching to a back up weapon for a different damage type and losing all the enchantments from my primary weapon. So for me, an adamantine Lucerne hammer along with a vial of silver sheen in my pocket allows me to deal with 4 different things thatmmight reduce or negate my damage.

Is my logic way off track?

I'd also consider the crit range on a weapon as a big factor. There's a big difference between a character wielding an 18-20(x2) weapon vs a 20(x3) weapon. If you're looking from a strict "how much damage" perspective, this can affect the results.

[Doctor Awkward]

A sports car.....not so much , unless you need to tell someone " I have more money than you" and don't want to actually say it.

Meh.

The purpose of my vehicle is to get me from Point A to Point B as quickly as safely possible. I occasionally spend days delivering for work, and since I get paid by the hour I take my time. I greatly enjoy driving when I have the time, but if I have somewhere I need to be then I don't want to spend any more time on the road then I have to.

Very simple physics will tell you that when two objects are headed towards the same destination the object with the greater velocity will reach it first.
So as long as I'm single with no kids and not responsible to anyone but myself, if I have to choose between the car that can handle a curve at 45 mph, vs another one that can safely and easily handle that same curve at 60 mph, I'm picking the latter one every single time.

...As long as it's manual.

[WhamBamSam]

Damage dice only matter for 2 things: levels 1-5 and stacking size increases. Other than that, you are right.There are a few things that key specifically off of weapon damage, like the Vampiric Blade/Claws of the Vampire powers.

In general though, yes. The primary important thing for your weapon once you get into the mid-level range is whether it works for all your mechanics as a way to deliver your hits and the bonus damage/effects that come with them. If you're a power attacker, it's important that it be a two-handed weapon. If you want Dex to damage it'd be nice if it were a Shadow Hand weapon. If you're a tripper it should be able to trip. What are your reach needs? And so on.

Weapon choice does amount to more than cosmetics/flavor, but damage dice are generally not the reason why from the mid-level range onward.

[Seerow]

The main things that matter on a weapon are, in order:
1) Reach, or lack thereof
2) Crit Threat Range/Multiplier (less important for rogue-esque classes with a focus on bonus dice)
3) Is the weapon Bludgeoning?
3a) Do you have access to Greater Mighty Wallop? If so, pay attention to weapon damage dice. Else, don't bother.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Yeah, I pretty much came to regard my glaive as simply a vehicle for Crusader strikes and AoOs. Of course, as a Knight Templar of the Silver Flame I made it a silvered sacred weapon, so like most vehicles it reflected the personality of its owner.

[Jormengand]

If your weapon is a vehicle, then what your spellcasting is? A helicopter with missile? An ironman suit?

If your weapon is a vehicle, your spellcasting is an alien mothership with a fully-functioning FTL drive, a cloaking field, a spontaneous matter generator, nigh-invulnerability to anything up to and including a black hole, and a small armada of spaceships each of which carries enough missiles to take out the solar system.

[bjoern]

If your weapon is a vehicle, your spellcasting is an alien mothership with a fully-functioning FTL drive, a cloaking field, a spontaneous matter generator, nigh-invulnerability to anything up to and including a black hole, and a small armada of spaceships each of which carries enough missiles to take out the solar system.

Could have just said polymorph and saved some breath.

[Keld Denar]

Agreed. Contrast a falchion with a greatsword. 2d6 vs 2d4, but 18-20 crit instead of 19-20. At medium size, its the difference of 1 average damage vs 5% crit range. That favors the crit range significantly. Reach, also, is big (pun intended). Contrast a whole extra attack on average per encounter vs 1 or 2 average damage per hit. It takes a lot of hits to make up the difference.

The weapons abilities and non-damage attributes nearly always count for much more than it's damage die.

[Dimers]

Weapon damage is -- very generally speaking -- correlated to whether the weapon is simple or martial and to whether it's light, one-handed or two-handed. Both of those are important factors in other decisions. So you might sometimes choose the higher-damage weapon with fewer features because it lets you take better advantage of Power Attack, or you might have to use a low-damage one without features to save a feat.

But yeah, basically, the weapon's damage is icing on the cake in 3.X.

[goto124]

Does my car come with flamethrowers?