Any way to add Rage without multiclassing?

[Amphetryon]

Specifically, to add Rage, even once a day, to an Investigator?

[avr]

You can get the rage spell/infusion if that helps. You could even get it as a potion and use alchemical allocation.

Get leadership and a skald cohort?

It takes a lot of feats but eldritch heritage qualifies you for the Raging Blood feat.

[bootzin]

Well, if you qualify, there is the proto-creature inherited template from Bestiary of Krynn (pg 88?).. You get the rage feature just as the barbarian does, but whenever you damage a foe in combat, you have to make a will save (DC 15) or enter rage

[Hecuba]

I'm assuming you need Rahe proper and not merely a simulacrum thereof.

Gutworm symbiont from Fiend Folio (has drawbacks if you're not evil).

If you can cherry pick the race to get Rage then Anthro Badger or Wolverine work, but both increase Ecl significantly.

[stack]

I'm assuming you need Rahe proper and not merely a simulacrum thereof.

Gutworm symbiont from Fiend Folio (has drawbacks if you're not evil).

If you can cherry pick the race to get Rage then Anthro Badger or Wolverine work, but both increase Ecl significantly.

Pathfinder tag.

[Jack_Simth]

The Berserking Sword (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/cursed-items#TOC-Sword-Berserking) could do the trick, but it has some drawbacks. Price is unclear in Pathfinder, 17,500 gp in 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#swordBerserking).

[deuxhero]

Rage is a third level extract

Beyond that you have Skill Focus+Eldritch Heritage+Raging Blood if you can mange the 13 charisma.

[Amphetryon]

Rage is a third level extract

Beyond that you have Skill Focus+Eldritch Heritage+Raging Blood if you can mange the 13 charisma.

Sadly, rolled stats leave me all but required to put a 9 in CHA (there's also a 6 to assign, so CHA isn't even the dump stat).

[Feint's End]

Sadly, rolled stats leave me all but required to put a 9 in CHA (there's also a 6 to assign, so CHA isn't even the dump stat).

Friends don't let friends roll stats.


Can you tell us what you need rage for? This would help us assess the situation and recommend accordingly.

[Amphetryon]

Friends don't let friends roll stats.


Can you tell us what you need rage for? This would help us assess the situation and recommend accordingly.

Samuel Vimes, Ankh-Morpork City Watch.

[atemu1234]

Friends don't let friends roll stats.

Yes, the point buy system Pathfinder has works much better (though I prefer the 3.5 one myself, though I rarely play purely pathfinder games).

[Feint's End]

Samuel Vimes, Ankh-Morpork City Watch.

Oh I see ... interesting concept. I see place for some brutal means but what makes you think it needs rage? I mean you can always dip and ask for extra rage.

[Psyren]

I don't know the character this concept is based on, but you can buy rage potions or ragechemist's mutagen until such time as you can make the former yourself.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Sadly, rolled stats leave me all but required to put a 9 in CHA (there's also a 6 to assign, so CHA isn't even the dump stat).


Samuel Vimes, Ankh-Morpork City Watch.


Um...wha?

Samuel Vimes definitely doesn't have a dump stat in Charisma. He may be a little disheveled and non-diplomatic at times, but his ability to command an audience (as seen countless times) is incredible.

I honestly don't think you can make Vimes with a 9 and a 6 as far as stats. He's probably got slightly above-average strength, decently high Dexterity, average-to-above-average Constitution, moderate Intelligence (he's not as dumb as he or others think he is, but he's not brilliant either), good Wisdom, and enough Charisma to fight off the Summoning Dark (which I'd treat as a combination of Will saves and Ego checks like the influence of an intelligent magic item).

Maybe something like:

Strength 12
Dexterity 15
Constitution 13
Intelligence 13
Wisdom 17
Charisma 16 (compared to Carrot's 18, for example)


In short: I understand you may have to work with what you have, but at least see if you can use point buy. I don't think your current stat array can do the character justice.

---------------

ON TOPIC: I don't think Vimes has Rage, actually. Whenever he does have his little moment he's actually still very capable of defending himself (often without being even really aware of it, as we see in Thud!)[/I]: he becomes unstoppable, not a beserker. I'd probably just model this in terms of role-play, or see if I could get a custom feat to represent The Beast, or a custom template to represent The Summoning Dark.

[Grod_The_Giant]

ON TOPIC: I don't think Vimes has Rage, actually. Whenever he does have his little moment he's actually still very capable of defending himself (often without being even really aware of it, as we see in Thud!)[/I]: he becomes unstoppable, not a beserker. I'd probably just model this in terms of role-play, or see if I could get a custom feat to represent The Beast, or a custom template to represent The Summoning Dark.
Something like Whirling Frenzy would work better, but I don't know if such a thing exists in Pathfinder.

Given that you're running an investigator, maybe just refluff Studied Combat as the Beast? Add on Domino Effect (which is admittedly not the best Talent, but does make it a little more rage-y) and maybe Studied Defense, and you get a very focused, very dangerous fighter.

Either that, or ask for a custom archetype to trade Studied Combat/Strike for Rage, and the ability to take Rage Powers in place of Investigator Talents. That should be pretty balanced.

[avr]

Take a slightly different slant on it maybe? The True Love (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/story-feats/true-love-story) story feat gives a bonus to sense motive (appropriate for Vimes) and the completion benefit is a +2 attack/damage/skill bonus when at or below 1/4 hp. Vimes definitely seems to lose it when he's been worn down by his enemies, and he's got his true love.

[Psyren]

Something like Whirling Frenzy would work better, but I don't know if such a thing exists in Pathfinder.

It does (Controlled Rage, Urban Barbarian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/urban-barbarian) archetype - lets you choose which physical attribute to boost and still use skills), but getting that onto another class without multiclassing is even harder.

[NightbringerGGZ]

You might also try running an Inquisitor. You can get Rage through Domains/Inquisitions, a bunch of investigative abilities and spells and one of the archetypes lets you add Wisdom to various charisma-based checks.

[Amphetryon]

Psyren: You do not know Samuel Vimes? You don't know Discworld? You. . . wha. . . . Please, fix this now, for your own benefit.

Various comments about Abilities and how they represent Vimes: Objections and differences of opinion are duly noted. I choose to use the low (barely below average) CHA to represent his 'bloody-mindedness' that causes him to be unnecessarily brusque with strangers and superiors alike, with the low WIS representing his ability to come up with multiple theories of how a hypothetical crime might take place (like Vetinari's poisoning, or the theft of the Scone of Stone) without the capacity to stop and consider whether his theories have obvious defects that make them unlikely, in conjunction with the low WIS representing his struggles with alcohol and addiction. I feel (as does my DM, when I checked) that Rage does a good job of representing his occasional hyper-focus, with its accompanying increase in apparent physical prowess and perceptive abilities, in conjunction with the fatigue-to-exhaustion he inevitably exhibits when these bouts of hyper-focus subside.

On multiclassing/dipping Barb: Any multiclassing or dipping out of Investigator makes Vimes something other than a man with a badge, which is virtually his entire self-image. Vetinari attempted to make him a man without a badge, once. . . . ONCE.

[Secret Wizard]

Actually, addiction (including to alcohol) is represented by a number of failed FORT saves to the addictive effects of substances... but I guess you could also attribute it to low WILL...


Anyway, if you want hyper-focus rage, why not take the Investigator Talent for an Alchemist Discovery -> Mutagen?


Not to mention that hyper-focus is already in-built in the Investigator... what do you think Studied Strike is?

[The Glyphstone]

If that's how you see classes, then yeah, you're going to have a lot of trouble. But many people, myself included, consider a 'class level' to be as much a skill set as a job description; taking a level of Barbarian doesn't require spending years living amongst a primitive tribal culture any more than taking a level of Rogue requires becoming a professional thief. The sum of all a character's classes defines them, rather than each level being a discrete component of their personality.

But like I said, that's my view on stuff like this. In pure Investigator with low Charisma and PF-only material, you're pretty much stuck with Extracts/Potions of Rage, making your 'Vimes' just a seriously angry drunkard.

[Amphetryon]

Actually, addiction (including to alcohol) is represented by a number of failed FORT saves to the addictive effects of substances... but I guess you could also attribute it to low WILL...


Anyway, if you want hyper-focus rage, why not take the Investigator Talent for an Alchemist Discovery -> Mutagen?


Not to mention that hyper-focus is already in-built in the Investigator... what do you think Studied Strike is?To the first: Your difference of opinion from myself and my DM is duly noted.
To the second: Carefully studying the anatomy/movement of a foe before striking; I would think such was obvious from the name and description. Your question here appears to indicate (somewhat smugly) your belief that I'm somehow confused about what those words mean. To my understanding, they mean something very different than hyper-focus and an increase in physical strength and endurance.

[The Glyphstone]

To the first: Your difference of opinion from myself and my DM is duly noted.


Point of order: in Pathfinder, his 'opinion' is actually factually correct by RAW. Anything else is a houserule, though an easily justifiable one.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs

[Amphetryon]

Point of order: in Pathfinder, his 'opinion' is actually factually correct by RAW. Anything else is a houserule, though an easily justifiable one.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs

As indicated in my quoted response, my DM is, and has, ruled otherwise.

[Psyren]

Psyren: You do not know Samuel Vimes? You don't know Discworld? You. . . wha. . . . Please, fix this now, for your own benefit.

I "know" of Discworld, and even played the old CD-ROM game way back in the day (though I never finished it - this being pre-internet and me not having grown up in the USA, hints when I was stuck were hard to come by.) But as far as the books, they were not available to me as a child and I haven't really had time for them since.

Anyway, you seem to have a very set view of how this character should be built mechanically, so I'll echo Glyphstone's comments and wish you best of luck otherwise.

[Amphetryon]

I "know" of Discworld, and even played the old CD-ROM game way back in the day (though I never finished it - this being pre-internet and me not having grown up in the USA, hints when I was stuck were hard to come by.) But as far as the books, they were not available to me as a child and I haven't really had time for them since.

Anyway, you seem to have a very set view of how this character should be built mechanically, so I'll echo Snowbluff's comments and wish you best of luck otherwise.

I missed Snowbluff's comments in the thread; which ones do you reference?

[Psyren]

I missed Snowbluff's comments in the thread; which ones do you reference?

Sorry, meant Glyphstone.

[The Glyphstone]

Sorry, meant Glyphstone.

We are legion...

[Grod_The_Giant]

To the first: Your difference of opinion from myself and my DM is duly noted.
To the second: Carefully studying the anatomy/movement of a foe before striking; I would think such was obvious from the name and description. Your question here appears to indicate (somewhat smugly) your belief that I'm somehow confused about what those words mean. To my understanding, they mean something very different than hyper-focus and an increase in physical strength and endurance.
That, uh, sound pretty similar. Don't get so hung up on the name-- look at the actual effects. When the ability is active, you zero in on one enemy at a time and gain a significant bonus to wreck his face. When he's dead, your focus shifts to your next foe and you continue your rampage. Is it perfect? No. But that only plausible alternative seems to be to take a level of... well, not Barbarian, because Vimes is definitely lawful, but how about, oh, Ranger (Wild Stalker, Urban Ranger)? Looking at the archetypes, the first four levels look pretty Vimes-y to me, apart from being stuck with Wild Empathy. You get:

Strong Senses: Low-light vision developed from his years on the night watch
Track: Makes sense for a watchman, though I wouldn't give him any actual ranks in Survival. (He can find clues occasionally, but he's not good at it)
Trapfinding: He's got rogue-y skills alright.
Favored Community: Literally perfect for a cop, and Vimes does know Ankh-Morpork like the back of his hand.
Rage: Ta-da.

Heck, you could probably add on the Skirmisher archetype and play him as a straight Ranger. That might even be more fitting-- of the Investigator's three focuses (smarts/logic, alchemy, and being good at all the skills), none of them really fit Vimes' dogged, determined style of policing.

[Secret Wizard]

OP, please take a chill pill.

I pointed you to the rules on addiction, noted that Mutagen (which is almost rage) is accessible to Investigators, and told you Studied Strike can be flavored as anything you want (you know, just like how you reflavored drug addiction).

[Amphetryon]

OP, please take a chill pill.

I pointed you to the rules on addiction, noted that Mutagen (which is almost rage) is accessible to Investigators, and told you Studied Strike can be flavored as anything you want (you know, just like how you reflavored drug addiction).

I'm not upset, though I'm confused as to your apparent need to address me in this consistently condescending tone.

[atemu1234]

I'm not upset, though I'm confused as to your apparent need to address me in this consistently condescending tone.

That's not condescension. That's using turn-of-phrase to get across a sentiment; namely, that you were directed to two (workable) effects, which you didn't like, through no fault of Secret Wizard's. If anything, calling RAW - backed statement 'opinion' is the most condescending thing here.

[Orion Hamby]

That's not condescension. That's using turn-of-phrase to get across a sentiment; namely, that you were directed to two (workable) effects, which you didn't like, through no fault of Secret Wizard's. If anything, calling RAW - backed statement 'opinion' is the most condescending thing here.

Hey you might as well "admit" that you're being condescending because he will keep arguing otherwise I will say this though the way you told him of studied strike was a little rude sounding but i know you didn't mean it like that🎲

[Incorrect]

To answer the title,
Broken Chain of the Beast or the Torc of Bloody Rage, can grant rage.