HotDQ/RoT Spoilers - What's the cult's recruiting pitch?

[JFahy]

You saw the spoiler thing, right? Okay.

My group's almost done with Hoard, meaning they'll soon be getting back to civilization. As far as they know, the cult is this fringe group that raids small rural communities.

After the Draakhorn is sounded, I want to have an increasing cult presence along the coastal cities - starting with lone crazy guys preaching in the streets, and working up to neighborhoods and cities (and realms??) having uprisings and maybe going over to the cult as the skies fill with dark wings and it looks like they're going to be the winning team.

But for this to be credible, there need to be defensible reasons for people to hand over their material goods and quit their jobs and cheer for a dragon goddess. I have a few:

1. Tiamat won't hurt you if you submit, but her enemies are gonna die violently.

2. This world belongs to dragons. They're taking it back. Help destroy their enemies and you will be spared.

3. All wealth and power will belong to the dragons, meaning nobles won't boss you around anymore and you won't be poor anymore.

4. Rulers and the rich are going down, join the chaos, get a little payback and then party as the world burns.

5. The cult is Tiamat's favored ones - get in now and be one of the rulers of The New Order.

6. You will be eaten first. (http://io9.com/5742032/who-will-be-eaten-first----a-lovecraftian-parody-of-chick-tracts/) :smallwink:

A combination of 2, 3 and 5 is what I'm leaning towards, but can you think of any other angles? I think it's important that joining the cult not be an absurd decision. There are going to be politicians arguing for/against it, and street demagogues firing up crowds for/against it (I hope) and ideally none of them will just sound like irrational fools.

[bokodasu]

I'd say 1, 2, & 5 are the same and probably the main pitch from the actual faithful; mercenaries and other hangers-on will be pushing 4 with a side of 3 among the rabble. As more people join, more people will want to join - there will be a core of believers and a BIG contingency of Pascal's Wager-ers.

[Naanomi]

And for getting nobles and the powerful to join, an implicit dose of:

'A big change is coming, nothing can stop it, and everyone is screwed... Except you, who are so smart and clever and just better than everyone else that surely you can take advantage of the situation and will rocket up the cult's ranks and be ok in the end. Right?'

And, once things get rolling, some amount of 'hey join my cult or I will kill you' likely comes into play

[TheOOB]

Remember a large part of the cult are mercenaries and the red wizard exiles.

[Gritmonger]

Tiamat is immenent. She is not an abstract, a deity on another plane, but with us here, now.

She will be the horde-breaker, and the hoard-breaker. All will belong to her, so why not give yourself, now? Don't be one that gets your own hoard taken away, a petty pretender to the power of a dragon. Become part of the hoard instead - and be treasured, rather than having the material own you. Show your worth, rather than having it counted out to others. Be yet another shining jewel among those who have devoted themselves to a living god.

[JFahy]

Remember a large part of the cult are mercenaries and the red wizard exiles.

Totally true, but I think I have a better chance of ratching up the tension by having them win converts. I'd be disappointed if the big conflict hinged on who had the most liquid assets to hire mercs with. (...although that's a totally plausible thing for a war to hinge on, I want something dramatic and heroic, not 'and so the dragon queen was vanquished, because the Zhentarim had a diversified investment portfolio with various short-term investments that could be withdrawn without penalty after a 30-day administrative period'.)

[Gritmonger]

Totally true, but I think I have a better chance of ratching up the tension by having them win converts. I'd be disappointed if the big conflict hinged on who had the most liquid assets to hire mercs with. (...although that's a totally plausible thing for a war to hinge on, I want something dramatic and heroic, not 'and so the dragon queen was vanquished, because the Zhentarim had a diversified investment portfolio with various short-term investments that could be withdrawn without penalty after a 30-day administrative period'.)

But the FEES man! What about the FEES!?!

[TrollCapAmerica]

I always wonder where all these evil cults find all their recruits. You would imagine a guy chanting about how the end is here and a Dragon god is coming to rob and eat everything probably isnt going to be taken too seriously

[Rowan Wolf]

"The End is nigh, please note we also have pie."

[TheOOB]

I always wonder where all these evil cults find all their recruits. You would imagine a guy chanting about how the end is here and a Dragon god is coming to rob and eat everything probably isnt going to be taken too seriously

Keep in mind this is the Realms, when you create an evil organization evil minions just kind of pop up.

Besides, if you're a peasant farmer you A)have no education, and B)have no prospects in life.

[cobaltstarfire]

I always wonder where all these evil cults find all their recruits. You would imagine a guy chanting about how the end is here and a Dragon god is coming to rob and eat everything probably isnt going to be taken too seriously

It's been strongly implied that most members in the cult of the dragon are atleast somewhat insane. And the original founder was definitely insane.

It seems like there has been a shift in the cult though, since it used to be 'Undead Dragons rightfully own this world, and we will help them in their rise to power, all who stand against them shall fall' As well as 'Hey you evil dragon, how do you feel about lichedom? We can totally make that happen for you'

[Easy_Lee]

Half dragons are a thing. I'd say it comes down to:

Be on the winning side
If you serve well, you will become a faithful servant in a casteless society where all humanoids are equal and ruled by superior dragons.
If you serve very well, become a half dragon or full dragon yourself one day, or foster children that are half breeds.

Plus the whole power thing. Bad sorts in D&D seem to be obsessed with vague promises of unspecified power, if RA Salvatore novels are anything to go by.

[Drakefall]

Tiamat's the goddess of greed and vengeance, yeah?

I could see a charismatic recruiter gaining a lot of converts from the destitute, abandoned and otherwise sidelined members of society.

"No, my brothers and sisters, it is they who betrayed you! They broke you across their knees and denied you what is rightfully yours! Alone you are powerless against them, but together, as a family, with the favour of our mother the Dragon Queen we can claim it all! All the vengeance and riches denied to you will be yours, you need only take my hand..."

That kind of thing. Further brainwashing and propaganda presumably follows. You'll get greedy bastards just out for a buck and a place to sleep, murderous dregs just looking for an excuse to get away with stabbin', the poor and desperate, and perhaps even the occasional zealous convert to the church of tiamat.

[JFahy]

That kind of thing. Further brainwashing and propaganda presumably follows. You'll get greedy bastards just out for a buck and a place to sleep, murderous dregs just looking for an excuse to get away with stabbin', the poor and desperate, and perhaps even the occasional zealous convert to the church of tiamat.

Nice. I was kind of considering that one and your version has made me like it a lot more. Marxist class struggle plus dragons. :smallwink:

[JFahy]

If you serve very well, become a half dragon or full dragon yourself one day, or foster children that are half breeds.


Wait whoa wait -

I guess I assumed half-dragons happen when a dragon polymorphs into a member of [humanoidRace] and then does a member of [humanoidRace]? No?

And how does somebody get 'promoted' to half/full dragon?

[Gritmonger]

Wait whoa wait -

I guess I assumed half-dragons happen when a dragon polymorphs into a member of [humanoidRace] and then does a member of [humanoidRace]? No?

And how does somebody get 'promoted' to half/full dragon?

Collecting enough box-tops?

[TrexPushups]

Wait whoa wait -

I guess I assumed half-dragons happen when a dragon polymorphs into a member of [humanoidRace] and then does a member of [humanoidRace]? No?

And how does somebody get 'promoted' to half/full dragon?

Polymorph?!?!!

[Easy_Lee]

Half dragons are just that; genetically half dragon and half something else. It's not a polymorphed dragon, and doesn't look like one. When a dragon takes on human form, it's still a full dragon, but looks human.

[TrexPushups]

Half dragons are just that; genetically half dragon and half something else. It's not a polymorphed dragon, and doesn't look like one. When a dragon takes on human form, it's still a full dragon, but looks human.

I really feel for the Gregor Mendel of faerun, greyhawk and the rest.

[Person_Man]

Most people join a religion (especially cults) for social/pragmatic reasons (as opposed to ideological), and then change their beliefs after the fact to align with their new community. People who evangelize take the time to learn your name, ask about your feelings and past, invite you to their social functions, give you free food and drink, sing songs together but don't make fun of your voice, read together and listen to your opinion on what you just read, and so on. They become your friends. They listen to your problems. They treat your opinions seriously. They hate the same people that I hate. Then they promise that the solution to your problems come from their beliefs. These people are your friends and care about you, and most other people are jerks (and reality itself is capricious and painful), so why shouldn't I agree with this religion? And then if other people threaten your friends, wouldn't you take steps to protect them?

The actual solutions or beliefs that the religion offers are basically beside the point, and are often completely ludicrous.

So I would just have this cult spread like every other cult. (And by the way, no one ever calls themselves a cult). Recruit people on the fringes of society by showing them respect, preaching against their (real or perceived) enemies, and giving them free stuff. Cohesive theology is something that comes decades or even centuries after the fact, if it ever comes at all.