Incense of Meditation - OP, or normal?

[thecrimsondawn]

Incense of Meditation: This small rectangular block of sweet smelling incense is visually indistinguishable from nonmagical incense until lit. When it is burning, the special fragrance and pearly-hued smoke of this special incense are recognizable by anyone making a DC 15 Spellcraft check.

When a divine spellcaster lights a block of incense of meditation and then spends 8 hours praying and meditating nearby, the incense enables him to prepare all his spells as though affected by the Maximize Spell feat. However, all the spells prepared in this way are at their normal level, not at three levels higher (as with the regular metamagic feat).

So....lets just say I am a cleric/wizard going into Mystic Theurge
Since the wording says that all spells that I prepare are effected as if Maximized.

Would this really work?!

[Ephemeral_Being]

I would go with "No." It specifies divine spellcasters. Not Arcane.

The logic is this. Clerics derive their power from (in this case) meditating and talking to their god. Spells like a Wizard gets are memorized, and then slept on. Spells from a Sorcerer use additional mental prowess to use. The incense is used to make communicating with your god easier, thereby getting you better spells. But that has nothing to do with your arcane spells that Mystic Theurge is boosting. It's specifically noted in the description in the class that the source of your arcane spells doesn't become Divine in any way. You can just cast both.

[eggynack]

Don't see why not.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Incense of Meditation: This small rectangular block of sweet smelling incense is visually indistinguishable from nonmagical incense until lit. When it is burning, the special fragrance and pearly-hued smoke of this special incense are recognizable by anyone making a DC 15 Spellcraft check.

When a divine spellcaster lights a block of incense of meditation and then spends 8 hours praying and meditating nearby, the incense enables him to prepare all his spells as though affected by the Maximize Spell feat. However, all the spells prepared in this way are at their normal level, not at three levels higher (as with the regular metamagic feat).

So....lets just say I am a cleric/wizard going into Mystic Theurge
Since the wording says that all spells that I prepare are effected as if Maximized.

Would this really work?!

Purely going by what's written there...

Divine Spellcaster? Check.

All his spells? Check.

It doesn't say "prepare all his Divine spells". It says "prepare all his spells". So if you prepare non-Divine spells, then they's Maximized.

If you were a spontaneous Divine caster, then the incense would do nothing for you, right?

[thecrimsondawn]

Well true the intent of the item is to only allow divine spells to be cast this way, but I am talking about the wording here. Like so many things in 3.5, bad wording has allowed the use of many classes, feats, special ability's, skills, and spells in ways they where never intended.

By its wording
I am a divine caster, so I can light it and get its benefit
it says I can prepare all my spells, not all my divine spells
and as a bit of flavor that has little to do with this argument, the Mystic Theurge picture shows him burning that incense.

The downside tho is that it requires 8 hours of meditation. That means unless I am an elf, I would need a ring of sustenance to lower my needed sleep to 2 hours - otherwise I would be sleeping 8 hours and then meditating 8 hours, taking away nearly the whole day.

[Allanimal]

The downside tho is that it requires 8 hours of meditation. That means unless I am an elf, I would need a ring of sustenance to lower my needed sleep to 2 hours - otherwise I would be sleeping 8 hours and then meditating 8 hours, taking away nearly the whole day.

In that remaining time, there is plenty of time for the standard 15-minute adventurer's workday.

[Zanos]

I'd argue that the biggest downside is that this costs 4.9k each time you do it.

But yeah, it does work.

[thethird]

Add unguent of timelessness for fun and profit.

[thecrimsondawn]

Add unguent of timelessness for fun and profit.

LOL
but is it even made of wood or some other matter that was once alive?
Or would I have to find where I saw that living spell template is first? :P

[Necroticplague]

I'd argue that the biggest downside is that this costs 4.9k each time you do it.

But yeah, it does work.

This. If you're going to blow almost 5k on something that only effects you for a day, it's probably gonna be pretty potent. A lot of the best spells don't really benefit much from Maximize Spell anyway. Cool trick, but not particularly powerful.

[thethird]

LOL
but is it even made of wood or some other matter that was once alive?
Or would I have to find where I saw that living spell template is first? :P

Of course, incense is made of plant material. source (http://books.google.es/books?id=7M9_cYNE0X4C&pg=PA15&dq=Incense+Composition&cd=2&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false).

Why would you use the living spell template in there? The incense is a magical item, not a spell.

[Snowbluff]

Add unguent of timelessness for fun and profit.

I like this.

[thecrimsondawn]

Of course, incense is made of plant material. source (http://books.google.es/books?id=7M9_cYNE0X4C&pg=PA15&dq=Incense+Composition&cd=2&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false).

Why would you use the living spell template in there? The incense is a magical item, not a spell.

Hey, ya learn something new every day!
Thanks! :)

and my mindset on living spell is was if it was once alive, and then died off, then it was still once alive lol

Edit: tbh tho, I dont even remember ever having uses or seen living spell in play, so I have no idea what its even added to. It was just the first thing that popped into my head :3

[Troacctid]

I don't know if Incense of Meditation is overpowered, but if it is, I'm pretty sure it isn't because of how it interacts with Mystic Theurges.

[thecrimsondawn]

I don't know if Incense of Meditation is overpowered, but if it is, I'm pretty sure it isn't because of how it interacts with Mystic Theurges.

Well there are only a couple of strong uses for this.

Assuming it works (and I feel I have a good argument that it does)
Then not only does that give me a full days worth of a +3 adjustment metamagic, that also allows me to apply other metamagic spells to greater effect.
If I was to twine - then both would be max
If I was to empower, then the effect would be 150% maxed

This would work best for a blaster or debuffer of course since most buffs are set in stone, and frankly, I am going to have 3 levels of incantrix as I see no reason to NOT get them lol

Hell, loosing one level to a divine caster to do this is not really a bad trade off if you think about it either.
cleric 1/wiz+whatever prestige classes 19..
Hmm lets see how that would effect a magic missile mage build

[atemu1234]

I'd argue that the biggest downside is that this costs 4.9k each time you do it.

But yeah, it does work.

At that point, it should work.