oWoD Kindred of the East vs Normal Kindred

[Bellberith]

Which ones are superior for combat and which ones do you prefer? Explain your reasons.


Thanks~~~

[JeenLeen]

I always had the impression that Kuei-jin (Eastern vampires) were stronger than Kindred (Western vampires), since the fluff is that a Kindred in China will die quickly, but after reading the books more, I don't think there is a great power disparity. I think they are somewhat on par, but with different specialties.

If I were in a mixed game, I would probably prefer Keui-jin because their limitations and weaknesses are different than Kindred, so most folk who are trying to 'fight a vampire' would prepare for the wrong type, giving me an advantage. Yang-focused ones can pretty easily pass as human, too. The big advantage Kindred have is the blood-bond, allowing them to recruit mortals rather easily. I think Keui-jin can learn a power to do a 'soul bond' that works similarly in the end, but it's not an innate power every Keui-jin has.

Although, for straight up 'kill you now', a Kindred with high Celerity, high Potence, and using a dagger for low difficulty would probably wind up killing a Keui-jin pretty quickly. Keui-jin have a power that can emulate Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude, but its versatility is at the cost of power and it costs to use each round (opposed to how Potence and Fortitude are static changes to the Kindred).

In a high-power game, I built a character that would be invisible (persists even in combat) with extended limbs, allowing to attack from range. It seemed a fun build, but I never wound up using it in play.

[comicshorse]

I always had the impression that Kuei-jin (Eastern vampires) were stronger than Kindred (Western vampires), since the fluff is that a Kindred in China will die quickly, but after reading the books more, I don't think there is a great power disparity. I think they are somewhat on par, but with different specialties.

If I were in a mixed game, I would probably prefer Keui-jin because their limitations and weaknesses are different than Kindred, so most folk who are trying to 'fight a vampire' would prepare for the wrong type, giving me an advantage. Yang-focused ones can pretty easily pass as human, too. The big advantage Kindred have is the blood-bond, allowing them to recruit mortals rather easily. I think Keui-jin can learn a power to do a 'soul bond' that works similarly in the end, but it's not an innate power every Keui-jin has.


While I agree that Kindred's ability to create Ghouls is a big edge Kue-Jin somewhat make up for it with soul bound minions and the ability to make deals with spirits.
Kue-jin also score by having multiple ways of dealing aggravated damage, particularly dealing aggravated damage at range which is rare(ish) among Kindred. Kindred disciplines that do that are ( as far as I remember) usually tightly guarded by the clans that have them whereas Kue-jin have Yang and Yin Prana, Demon shintai, Bone Shintai and scariest of all Ghost Flame Shintai which turns the Kue-jin into a walking flame thrower.


Although, for straight up 'kill you now', a Kindred with high Celerity, high Potence, and using a dagger for low difficulty would probably wind up killing a Keui-jin pretty quickly. Keui-jin have a power that can emulate Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude, but its versatility is at the cost of power and it costs to use each round (opposed to how Potence and Fortitude are static changes to the Kindred).

Yeah Black Wind isn't as good as Potence or Fortitude or Celerity. However a must for a combat orientated Kue-jin is Blood Shintai 3 (Flow like blood) which gives the Kue-Jin an automatic Dodge roll against ALL attacks for the next 3 rounds. This goes a long way to neutralising a Kindred's Clerity advantage.
Iron Mountain is the Kue-jin damage soaker put I can't really compare it to Fortitude because I've seen so many different definitions of Fortitude

Also all Kue-jin can get Nushi (basically Pack totems as in Werewolf) which give bonuses and can learn Rituals

Personal preference I think I prefer Kue-jin because dealing with Spirits is always fun and I'm huge Hong Kong movie fan

P.S
As I remember while Kindred can automatically pump their stats using blood Kue-jin can only improve Stats if they've got the corresponding Discipline

[JeenLeen]

While I agree that Kindred's ability to create Ghouls is a big edge Kue-Jin somewhat make up for it with soul bound minions and the ability to make deals with spirits.


Is that in the core rulebook for Keui-jin (Kindred of the East)? I never saw that, or only saw it as a high-ranked Discipline (forget which).
It is very true that Keui-jin (especially while in the east) would be less likely to be attacked on sight by spirits and fera, and I can see them making alliances with spirits or ghosts. If you read the book about hunters in the eastern countries (Demon Hunter X?), it mentions that there's usually a 'do not be too evil or disrupt the balance, and we do not kill you without good reason' respect-treaty between hunters and keui-jin.

Another plus is that they can, at least with the rank 5 of the yin and yang Disciplines, make a portal to the underworld (for yin) or umbra (for yang). I forget if they can go there themselves, but that would at least let some allies through... at least if it doesn't also create a Maelstrom in the underworld that would damage any ghostly allies and/or drive them insane. BUT my point is they can more easily get ghost or spirit allies, agreeing with your statement.



P.S
As I remember while Kindred can automatically pump their stats using blood Kue-jin can only improve Stats if they've got the corresponding Discipline
I think that's right. Something like each Discipline, or some of the main Disciplines, is linked to a stat.


Another big one is that they frenzy differently. Kindred frenzy, and how that work is pretty well-known. Kuei-jin are temporarily dominated by an alternate personality that usually tries to undo what they are working towards (or at least act in excesses they would usually frown upon). It's different, and not sure if worse or not. Also, newly made Keui-jin are mindless monsters for a while, feeding upon flesh, until they 'mature' enough to feed upon blood. Very high rank Keui-jin (not for PCs, generally) can 'feed' upon the ambient yin and yang in the environment, with no need for blood.

[TheCountAlucard]

The important thing is whether or not they can team up in time to destroy the Meyerpires. :smallyuk:

[JeenLeen]

The important thing is whether or not they can team up in time to destroy the Meyerpires. :smallyuk:

Heh. I think in nWoD, there's a bloodline (Ventrue-based?) that is of vampire poseurs. Might actually be called Poseurs. Basically, they are so into pop culture vamps, that they take on some of the weaknesses of them, usually stuff like garlic. I could definitely see some of them starting to sparkle in light from believing that's how vampires work. They'd probably get confused when they start to catch on fire as well, though :smalltongue:

[comicshorse]

The important thing is whether or not they can team up in time to destroy the Meyerpires. :smallyuk:

From what I've heard of them Sparkly Vampires are ridiculously powerful so all Kue-jin having going for them is not being dumber than a bag of hammers :smallsmile:
(This is one of the problems with THOSE books, why the hell didn't vampires conquer the world)