charge into bull rush... how the **** does this actually work.

[rrwoods]

Point-by-point breakdown would be great. I don't know what it is about these rules that are confusing me but I'm completely confused by the simple statement "you may bull rush as part of a charge" makes me very confused about the sequence of events involved.

[Seerow]

Step 1) Move at least 10 feet, up to twice your move speed. Can't go over difficult terrain, turn, blah blah all the normal charge restrictions.

Step 2) Instead of making an attack, make a bull rush attempt. Reference the normal bull rushing rules.

Step 3) ???

Step 4) I'd say profit, but really you're better off just taking Knockback and charging normally.

[Darrin]

Step 2) Instead of making an attack, make a bull rush attempt. Reference the normal bull rushing rules.


Technically, the rules never say "instead". The bull rush rules say you can make one as part of a charge, but they never say when it actually happens, such as in place of the melee attack or after the melee attack.

[rrwoods]

Technically, the rules never say "instead". The bull rush rules say you can make one as part of a charge, but they never say when it actually happens, such as in place of the melee attack or after the melee attack.

This is exactly my issue. I know how a charge works, and I know how a bull rush standard action works, but I don't know how the charge + bull rush action works.

Previous poster: The character in question is a crusader initiating Charging Minotaur. No vanilla attack options here, rest assured :-)

[Elricaltovilla]

I'd just treat it as a free bull rush attempt at the end of the charge. If you have any movement left over you can choose to move with the creature as normal, otherwise you just knock them backwards with the force of your attack.

[Frostthehero]

This is exactly my issue. I know how a charge works, and I know how a bull rush standard action works, but I don't know how the charge + bull rush action works.

Previous poster: The character in question is a crusader initiating Charging Minotaur. No vanilla attack options here, rest assured :-)

The rules never said instead. They make an attack, and then bull rush.

It probably looks like your character bracing against their weapon, and then just pushing and stabbing at the same time. Or something like that.

[Darrin]

This is exactly my issue. I know how a charge works, and I know how a bull rush standard action works, but I don't know how the charge + bull rush action works.



The most common understanding is that the bull rush replaces the single melee attack.

If we go by the text in the PHB on page 155, the bull rush isn't mentioned until after the rules discuss making the melee attack. This might suggest the bull rush happens after the melee attack, but I don't see any convincing evidence that this is what the designers intended... except for the Rules Compendium, which changed the wording on resolving the attack:

"If your attack is a bull rush, you get a +2 bonus on the opposed Strength check."

This supports the "instead" reading. You only get one attack, and it's either a standard attack or a bull rush (which is another type of standard action attack) but not both.

However, I'm not sure the Rules Compendium wording is what appears in the PHBs published after the Rules Compendium. I suspect the most recent printings of the PHB have the original wording.