Golems; the easy way

[Inevitability]

Something I stumbled upon and would like to see confirmed here.

If you use True Polymorph to turn, say, a frog into a Flesh Golem, then the golem walks into an Antimagic Field, what happens?

1. The golem turns back into a frog. After all, the polymorph effect on it is suppressed, isn't it?

2. The golem remains a golem. To be turned in a frog would 'alter its form', and Immutable Form explicitly prevents this.

So, what happens?

[HoarsHalberd]

Wrong board? Polymorph any object isn't a 5e spell. If you mean true polymorph, then it depends. If it is within the hour long concentration period, it ends, otherwise the change is permanent so by RAW it probably wouldn't end. But as everything it is DM dependant.

[pwykersotz]

The Object into Creature part of True Polymorph would work.

It depends on the definition of permanent. When refering to self-polymorphing, I believe the developers intended it to be...well...permanent. So in that case, it would not revert in an Antimagic Field.

[Inevitability]

Wrong board? Polymorph any object isn't a 5e spell. If you mean true polymorph, then it depends. If it is within the hour long concentration period, it ends, otherwise the change is permanent so by RAW it probably wouldn't end. But as everything it is DM dependant.

Changed it.

[Gritmonger]

Something I stumbled upon and would like to see confirmed here.

If you use True Polymorph to turn, say, a frog into a Flesh Golem, then the golem walks into an Antimagic Field, what happens?

1. The golem turns back into a frog. After all, the polymorph effect on it is suppressed, isn't it?

2. The golem remains a golem. To be turned in a frog would 'alter its form', and Immutable Form explicitly prevents this.

So, what happens?

You find some magnificent entry in the MM that gives you a CR0 Flesh Golem?

One of the stipulations for creature-to-creature in True Polymorph is CR equal to or lower than the original.

However, if you took a large enough object, you're limited to CR9 - which includes flesh and clay Golems, so in that case you'd have the effect I think you might be looking for.

[Chronos]

Even permanent spells can still be dispelled or suppressed, unless they specify otherwise. True Polymorph does not specify otherwise, so it can be suppressed. Which, in turn, means that at some level, what you've got there isn't really a clay golem; it's a boulder that's polymorphed into a golem.

In fact, it might not even be possible to turn an object into a golem in the first place, or at least not for it to remain a golem for more than an instant. You could read it as the Immutable Form ability throwing off the True Polymorph ability immediately, as soon as it takes effect.

[pwykersotz]

Even permanent spells can still be dispelled or suppressed, unless they specify otherwise. True Polymorph does not specify otherwise, so it can be suppressed. Which, in turn, means that at some level, what you've got there isn't really a clay golem; it's a boulder that's polymorphed into a golem.

In fact, it might not even be possible to turn an object into a golem in the first place, or at least not for it to remain a golem for more than an instant. You could read it as the Immutable Form ability throwing off the True Polymorph ability immediately, as soon as it takes effect.

Can they always? I see no clarification of the Permanent duration in the PHB. Or did I miss it?

In fact, the one thing I can find is that under the Duration text it says "Some spells specify that their effects last until the spells are dispelled or destroyed." That would indicate the opposite, that a removal condition generally needs to exist.

Arguably dispel magic might would work versus the spell True Polymorph once it was permanent, but it's not certain. If the effect becomes permanent, the spell might not be 'present' on the creature or object anymore.