How many templates?

[Kon Owens]

So, its been a while since I last asked for help here, but I've run into a problem I hope the playground can help with.

Recently, my GM has decided to run a game for us, set in his custom setting, with some special classes and races. Most are rather... over powered to put it bluntly, and I declined using them. Instead, he let me play a Warforged, which I have been wanting to play for a while, and okay-ed the use of Incarnate Construct after glancing it over
(Feasibility of Incarnate Construct working on a Warforged aside...)

Now, here's the question: I feel I may be underpowered in his game, and I want to make best use of whatever templates I can. However, I don't want to lay on the cheese with my choices. Can anyone suggest any templates that wont make him throw heavy objects at me? We get 5 levels at character creation, and I'm thinking of going straight Fighter into the Juggernaut prestige class.

Thanks in advance, hope you can help me.

[Maglubiyet]

You get 5 template levels? Or an ECL of 5?

[OldTrees1]

Consider a:
Warforged + Adamantine Body feat + Dragonborn(Wings aspect) transformation + Mineral Warrior(acquired template)[+1 LA].

Dragonborn removes many racial traits but you retain
1) Your Living Construct subtype (since all subtypes are preserved)
2) Your Adamantine Body feat (since dragonborn still count as their race for prerequisites)

Mineral Warrior removes existing flight not later flight and Dragonborn only gains flight at 6th HD.

Thus you end up with a metallic flying draconic warforged
Humanoid Type (valid for Enlarge Person)
Living Construct subtype (lots of immunities that Juggernaut extends further)
Adamantine Body feat (prerequisite for Juggernaut)
DR 8/adamantine
Natural Armor +3
Speed 20ft, Burrow 10ft, Fly(Average) 30ft
+2 Str, +8 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -4 Wis, -4 Cha

[Kon Owens]

Sorry, I should have clarified. We get ECL 5, and I wanted to take a template or two to balance out the power difference between a standard character and his custom races.

Going Dragonborn as Warforged? I had never considered it. That actually seems like a really cool idea! But, I've never heard of Mineral Warrior before. What book is it from?

Edit: Sorry, that's the Dragonborn of Bahamut, right? From Races of the Dragon?

[Blackhawk748]

Sorry, I should have clarified. We get ECL 5, and I wanted to take a template or two to balance out the power difference between a standard character and his custom races.

Going Dragonborn as Warforged? I had never considered it. That actually seems like a really cool idea! But, I've never heard of Mineral Warrior before. What book is it from?

Edit: Sorry, that's the Dragonborn of Bahamut, right? From Races of the Dragon?

Here it is (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) Its a very sexy template for melee bruisers.

[OldTrees1]

Sorry, I should have clarified. We get ECL 5, and I wanted to take a template or two to balance out the power difference between a standard character and his custom races.

Going Dragonborn as Warforged? I had never considered it. That actually seems like a really cool idea! But, I've never heard of Mineral Warrior before. What book is it from?

Edit: Sorry, that's the Dragonborn of Bahamut, right? From Races of the Dragon?

Mineral Warrior is found on WotC site here: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e
It is an excerpt from the Underdark book.

It costs you 1 level (so you would be Mineral Warrior _race_ Fighter 4 instead of _race_ Fighter 5). However it gives you DR 8/adamantine and +4Con.

[Kon Owens]

Holy cow! How is this listed as LA +1? Thats crazy! Also, so very happy that I now know about it. Thank you so much!

[OldTrees1]

Holy cow! How is this listed as LA +1? Thats crazy! Also, so very happy that I now know about it. Thank you so much!

Well, I can easily name 10+ combat feats that I would value equally or more than Mineral Warrior and usually you can get 1 feat/notable feature per level. The real winner in my opinion is the Flight from Dragonborn.

[Kon Owens]

Hmm, fair point. Flight is relatively hard to get. Though, I've never used Dragonborn before. Don't you loose just about everything from the base race besides typing and ability modifiers?

[OldTrees1]

Hmm, fair point. Flight is relatively hard to get. Though, I've never used Dragonborn before. Don't you loose just about everything from the base race besides typing and ability modifiers?

You keep:
Ability modifiers
Type and Subtypes (I forgot you remain a Construct)
Racial Identity (aka you continue to count as your race for all prerequisites)
Speed and alternative speeds(Burrow/Flight/Swim)
Languages
Favored Classes
Size
Racial Hit Dice
Powerful Build

So it is a rare race that does not lose much important
Dragonborn Goliath remain powerfully built and have easy access to Knockback and Mountain Rage(turn large sized)
Dragonborn Warforged remain constructs with great immunities
Dragonborn Raptorians retain their Raptorian flight and can pick up Dragon breath

[atemu1234]

Hmm, fair point. Flight is relatively hard to get. Though, I've never used Dragonborn before. Don't you loose just about everything from the base race besides typing and ability modifiers?

Pretty much, but how much do you really need? Also, acquired templates can be applied afterwards.

[Blackhawk748]

Holy cow! How is this listed as LA +1? Thats crazy! Also, so very happy that I now know about it. Thank you so much!

Because its an actual even distribution in Ability scores for one, (which i frankly find shocking with WotC) and while you get DR and Nat armor, thats really all your get. Oh and a cool Smite like ability, but thats a 1/day so its not a game breaker or anything. Basically i can see these features being spread over a 3 lvl PrC or something, they just condensed it and gave it LA 1 and negative mental stats. Still worth it though.

[Kon Owens]

You keep:
Ability modifiers
Type and Subtypes (I forgot you remain a Construct)
Racial Identity (aka you continue to count as your race for all prerequisites)
Speed and alternative speeds(Burrow/Flight/Swim)
Languages
Favored Classes
Size
Racial Hit Dice
Powerful Build


Ah, thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot more sense. Hmm, so Warforged come out fairly well off from the rebirth? I will have to look into it, seems like a decent option.


Pretty much, but how much do you really need? Also, acquired templates can be applied afterwards.

I don't NEED flight, but its always nice to have just in case. Like, if my DM throws my character off a building. Again.


Because its an actual even distribution in Ability scores for one, (which i frankly find shocking with WotC) and while you get DR and Nat armor, that's really all your get. Oh and a cool Smite like ability, but thats a 1/day so its not a game breaker or anything. Basically i can see these features being spread over a 3 lvl PrC or something, they just condensed it and gave it LA 1 and negative mental stats. Still worth it though.

Hmm, that's actually a neat idea, as a PrC. Still, you're right. Looking at the class again, it does seem balanced. But DR 8/Adamantite is just so nice, it surprised me that it was such a low LA.

[Troacctid]

Probably because DR 8/adamantine is strong early on but tapers off in power once you reach the lategame.