How to get players invested in a story or character.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Last night I DMed the first session of a new campaign, I had it start out with them in a tournament set up where they would get invitations to a bigger one in the capital city(which is where the story would start). After the tournament instead of going to the capital they decided they wanted to go to a near by village but none of importance really existed so I had to make one up. When they got there I tried to make it obvious that nothing important was going on so I said there was only like a longhouse and a couple houses with a windmill at the side. They decided they wanted to go to a tavern(ignoring that I told them there were none here) so I said fine there's one in the longhouse(at this point I decided that after they got bored there they could go talk to the village elder and do a simple bandit style quest then leave to the capital. I made up a bartender and 2 people in the tavern so it would look deserted. They decided to talk to one whom I said was just some drunk young man basically and suddenly they want to kidnap him. I think fine so I make up a story about his parents being gone because of bandits so they would be free to take him, fight bandits, and get back to the story. Well him going with them just wasn't enough for one of the players, he wanted a servant boy so after hours(OOC and in game) of the party arguing morality I finally just say sure he says he'll do it if you go fight the bandits. But halfway there one of the players from the anti-kidnapping side tries to steal the boy back and that player's dog. The player gets pissed and goes on a rant about how I'm a horrible DM for not having an actually planned out campaign and just railroading.

So basically they wasted hours forcing me to make stuff up because they didn't want to follow the story and then blame me for not having a coherent story. When I tried to explain this they said it was still my fault for not making them invested in the story or characters. So my question is, was I actually at fault here and if so how can I better invest them in a story or characters?

[YossarianLives]

In my experience no matter how good of a story you make or how interesting your planned npcs are, there is a good chance the players will ignore/not see your plot hooks and run off into the area you haven't planned out.

[Blackhawk748]

Short answer: No. You gave them invites to the tournament at the capital and they wanted to go to some random village for no apparent reason. They saw your plothook and said "Screw that noise" and this is where they wound up.

[MorgromTheOrc]

So what should I do next session, straight up tell them go to the capital, or just hope they've figured it out?

[kalasulmar]

You need irresistible bait on your plot hooks if you want a sure bite. If these players are known to you, give them a sniff of something that they can't pass up. Newer players may require some feeling out time to learn how to "railroad without railroading" them, to paraphrase Bruce Lee.

[Blackhawk748]

So what should I do next session, straight up tell them go to the capital, or just hope they've figured it out?

Id remind them that they have that invite, otherwise just let them run around and go all TES Oblivion on this world, until the Legion shows up.

[MorgromTheOrc]

You need irresistible bait on your plot hooks if you want a sure bite. If these players are known to you, give them a sniff of something that they can't pass up. Newer players may require some feeling out time to learn how to "railroad without railroading" them, to paraphrase Bruce Lee.

Well if you have ideas the group is a bard, a dragon shaman, a sorcerer, and a monk I buffed up that couldn't really play last night.

[Blackhawk748]

Well if you have ideas the group is a bard, a dragon shaman, a sorcerer, and a monk I buffed up that couldn't really play last night.

Money, gear, beautiful and easy Wenches??

[kalasulmar]

Depends more on player preferences, not character builds. Ask your players what they want out of the campaign, and tailor your quest arcs to be more in line with that.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Id remind them that they have that invite, otherwise just let them run around and go all TES Oblivion on this world, until the Legion shows up.

Yeah right at the end out of anger I sent 3 trolls after them(the players are level 5) to teach them a lesson about standing around in the middle of nowhere wasting time but they somehow beat them all without a scratch.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Depends more on player preferences, not character builds. Ask your players what they want out of the campaign, and tailor your quest arcs to be more in line with that.

Well the bard wants to build an evil empire but so far has ignored whenever I tell him about local warlords to fight and tries to kidnap people. I have no idea what the dragon shaman wants he just keeps trying to say that the dragon he grew up with is coming and doing things, which I've allowed for fluff stuff but mechanically I have to remind him there is no adult dragon coming to help him. And sorcerer in all campaigns I've ever seen her play just wants to become powerful but at the same time prevent other players from doing things(be controlling basically). And the monk just wants to be a martial artist, which fits perfectly with the campaign they ALL told me they wanted a couple months ago.

[Toilet Cobra]

I know it sucks but it seems like the game you want to run is not the one your players want to play. You put your story out there and they immediately fled off the edge of the graph paper.

You have to adapt to the sandbox they seem to want. They're just going to run from any quest giver who says "Hey, you're strong! Why not test your might in the tournament over there??"

[MorgromTheOrc]

I know it sucks but it seems like the game you want to run is not the one your players want to play. You put your story out there and they immediately fled off the edge of the graph paper.

You have to adapt to the sandbox they seem to want. They're just going to run from any quest giver who says "Hey, you're strong! Why not test your might in the tournament over there??"

Yeah I suppose that's true but they all had fun at the tournament(well all save the sorcerer who was originally going to try her first martial characters but after I explained that martial characters don't just say what they do but instead roll to attack, she got really upset and made a sorcerer). So I don't get why they don't want to do it but I guess I'm fine doing something else. Wouldn't making up a new story be more railroading though?

[Kid Jake]

Yeah right at the end out of anger I sent 3 trolls after them(the players are level 5) to teach them a lesson about standing around in the middle of nowhere wasting time but they somehow beat them all without a scratch.

That's probably the wrong way to go about it, a DM generally shouldn't be trying to 'teach them a lesson', I mean I can't even say that without conjuring images of cartoon super villains shaking their fists impotently.

If your bait isn't working, use different bait. If you want them to go after bandits, have the bandits rob them and take one of their shinies; there isn't a PC alive that'll let an NPC get away with something like that. If you want them to go back to the city then have some of the bandits head in that direction to fence their stolen loot. They reach the city and beat up the bandits and still can't find their stolen merchandise? Oh, look at that: A nobleman with some connection to whatever it is you want them to be doing is the one that bought it.

When I want a PC to go in a direction then I generally slap him in the face with whatever I want him mad at and then leave it up to him if he's gonna just sit back and take that. Usually works itself out.

[Red Fel]

I think I'll take each of your posts in turn, and give you the best advice I can muster. First, a disclaimer: I dislike railroading. As a proponent of creative DMing, I tend to come down hard on DMs who seem to say "I made this story, what can I do to force the PCs to follow it?"


Last night I DMed the first session of a new campaign, I had it start out with them in a tournament set up where they would get invitations to a bigger one in the capital city(which is where the story would start). After the tournament instead of going to the capital they decided they wanted to go to a near by village but none of importance really existed so I had to make one up. When they got there I tried to make it obvious that nothing important was going on so I said there was only like a longhouse and a couple houses with a windmill at the side. They decided they wanted to go to a tavern(ignoring that I told them there were none here) so I said fine there's one in the longhouse(at this point I decided that after they got bored there they could go talk to the village elder and do a simple bandit style quest then leave to the capital. I made up a bartender and 2 people in the tavern so it would look deserted. They decided to talk to one whom I said was just some drunk young man basically and suddenly they want to kidnap him. I think fine so I make up a story about his parents being gone because of bandits so they would be free to take him, fight bandits, and get back to the story. Well him going with them just wasn't enough for one of the players, he wanted a servant boy so after hours(OOC and in game) of the party arguing morality I finally just say sure he says he'll do it if you go fight the bandits. But halfway there one of the players from the anti-kidnapping side tries to steal the boy back and that player's dog. The player gets pissed and goes on a rant about how I'm a horrible DM for not having an actually planned out campaign and just railroading.

So basically they wasted hours forcing me to make stuff up because they didn't want to follow the story and then blame me for not having a coherent story. When I tried to explain this they said it was still my fault for not making them invested in the story or characters. So my question is, was I actually at fault here and if so how can I better invest them in a story or characters?

Let's be clear what they actually expected you to do: They expected you to offer details. They expected you fill your world with NPCs with whom they could interact. How rotten of them.

Now, if you're an inexperienced or new DM, or if you're following a module, or if you just feel like going with a linear story for a change, there's nothing wrong with being upfront about it and asking your players - in advance of the campaign - to get onboard with you. I'm not a fan, but I can respect it. You haven't made it clear, however, whether you asked your players to stay on the rails with you, or whether you simply expected them to. If it was the latter, you're suffering from clearly different expectations of the game - they plan to go where they want and do what they like, to whom they wish. You seem to be of the opinion that you may temporarily allow them to do these things, as long as they get back to your story. Do they share that opinion?

Because that might be important.


So what should I do next session, straight up tell them go to the capital, or just hope they've figured it out?

Frankly, from what you've described, your players are playing generic drunken CE murderhobos. I wouldn't trust PCs like that to figure out how to operate a saloon door. You can certainly tell the players, out of character, that you've prepared a story in the capital, but if they don't go along there's really not much you can do. You know the saying, you can lead a horse to water, but drowning him takes at least three people and will make a terrible mess.


Well if you have ideas the group is a bard, a dragon shaman, a sorcerer, and a monk I buffed up that couldn't really play last night.

As others have mentioned, classes are less helpful than personal motivation. And if they decide to abduct random NPCs on a whim, I don't have confidence that they have any real motivation or character complexity to speak of.


Yeah right at the end out of anger I sent 3 trolls after them(the players are level 5) to teach them a lesson about standing around in the middle of nowhere wasting time but they somehow beat them all without a scratch.

They beat the punishment trolls? How dare they. This is another thing that bothers me - imposing in-character consequences for out-of-character conduct. Let's be clear - you were frustrated with them for "wasting time" so you sent trolls after them "out of anger"? That's amateur, chief, pure and simple. You can do better than that. As a DM, you absolutely cannot let your anger get the better of you. Players will test your patience, drive you mental, if you let them. If you let your frustrations bleed over into the game, it becomes un-fun for you and un-fun for the players. If you're angry at them, tell the players, don't send monsters at them.

And don't get frustrated if they beat any challenge you send at them out of frustration. It's a vicious cycle.


Well the bard wants to build an evil empire but so far has ignored whenever I tell him about local warlords to fight and tries to kidnap people. I have no idea what the dragon shaman wants he just keeps trying to say that the dragon he grew up with is coming and doing things, which I've allowed for fluff stuff but mechanically I have to remind him there is no adult dragon coming to help him. And sorcerer in all campaigns I've ever seen her play just wants to become powerful but at the same time prevent other players from doing things(be controlling basically). And the monk just wants to be a martial artist, which fits perfectly with the campaign they ALL told me they wanted a couple months ago.

See, the Bard almost has motivation. I say almost, because "build an evil empire" is like "cure cancer" - a noble ideal, a great long-term dream, but there are a whole lot of little steps involved to which most poeple don't give a lot of thought. It sounds more like they plan to be generic drunken CE murderhobos, in which case, as mentioned, you're not going to motivate them to do very much at all.

Your best bet is to sit down with them, as a group, and ask them what they want out of the campaign. Not what their characters' goals are, because they don't seem terribly complex, but what the players want. Once you've done that, you have a choice to make. You can either redesign the campaign around what they want, or you can determine that it's beyond your willingness or abilities to provide, and step down as DM. But clearly, expectations are not lining up, and I expect things will get much worse before they get better.

Because expecting generic drunken CE murderhobos to go along with the plot is like herding cats. With only one hand. Also, the hand is missing three fingers.

[MorgromTheOrc]

That's probably the wrong way to go about it, a DM generally shouldn't be trying to 'teach them a lesson', I mean I can't even say that without conjuring images of cartoon super villains shaking their fists impotently.

If your bait isn't working, use different bait. If you want them to go after bandits, have the bandits rob them and take one of their shinies; there isn't a PC alive that'll let an NPC get away with something like that. If you want them to go back to the city then have some of the bandits head in that direction to fence their stolen loot. They reach the city and beat up the bandits and still can't find their stolen merchandise? Oh, look at that: A nobleman with some connection to whatever it is you want them to be doing is the one that bought it.

When I want a PC to go in a direction then I generally slap him in the face with whatever I want him mad at and then leave it up to him if he's gonna just sit back and take that. Usually works itself out.

It was more of a way to get them to stop standing around arguing, I had the kid be kidnapped by someone to get them to look for him but the bard suddenly decided he didn't care about him even though he just spent an actual 3 hours trying to get the kid to come with him.

[Blackhawk748]

That's probably the wrong way to go about it, a DM generally shouldn't be trying to 'teach them a lesson', I mean I can't even say that without conjuring images of cartoon super villains shaking their fists impotently.

If your bait isn't working, use different bait. If you want them to go after bandits, have the bandits rob them and take one of their shinies; there isn't a PC alive that'll let an NPC get away with something like that. If you want them to go back to the city then have some of the bandits head in that direction to fence their stolen loot. They reach the city and beat up the bandits and still can't find their stolen merchandise? Oh, look at that: A nobleman with some connection to whatever it is you want them to be doing is the one that bought it.

When I want a PC to go in a direction then I generally slap him in the face with whatever I want him mad at and then leave it up to him if he's gonna just sit back and take that. Usually works itself out.

This strategy boils down to "Kill a PCs father, well that just happens. Steal their bootlace? S**t just got personal!"

Or as one of my PCs put it, once a PC gets the scent of blood they are worse than a pack of rapid wolves.

So ya, slap them with the thing you want angry at and then nature will take its course.

[MorgromTheOrc]

I think I'll take each of your posts in turn, and give you the best advice I can muster. First, a disclaimer: I dislike railroading. As a proponent of creative DMing, I tend to come down hard on DMs who seem to say "I made this story, what can I do to force the PCs to follow it?"



Let's be clear what they actually expected you to do: They expected you to offer details. They expected you fill your world with NPCs with whom they could interact. How rotten of them.

Now, if you're an inexperienced or new DM, or if you're following a module, or if you just feel like going with a linear story for a change, there's nothing wrong with being upfront about it and asking your players - in advance of the campaign - to get onboard with you. I'm not a fan, but I can respect it. You haven't made it clear, however, whether you asked your players to stay on the rails with you, or whether you simply expected them to. If it was the latter, you're suffering from clearly different expectations of the game - they plan to go where they want and do what they like, to whom they wish. You seem to be of the opinion that you may temporarily allow them to do these things, as long as they get back to your story. Do they share that opinion?

Because that might be important.



Frankly, from what you've described, your players are playing generic drunken CE murderhobos. I wouldn't trust PCs like that to figure out how to operate a saloon door. You can certainly tell the players, out of character, that you've prepared a story in the capital, but if they don't go along there's really not much you can do. You know the saying, you can lead a horse to water, but drowning him takes at least three people and will make a terrible mess.



As others have mentioned, classes are less helpful than personal motivation. And if they decide to abduct random NPCs on a whim, I don't have confidence that they have any real motivation or character complexity to speak of.



They beat the punishment trolls? How dare they. This is another thing that bothers me - imposing in-character consequences for out-of-character conduct. Let's be clear - you were frustrated with them for "wasting time" so you sent trolls after them "out of anger"? That's amateur, chief, pure and simple. You can do better than that. As a DM, you absolutely cannot let your anger get the better of you. Players will test your patience, drive you mental, if you let them. If you let your frustrations bleed over into the game, it becomes un-fun for you and un-fun for the players. If you're angry at them, tell the players, don't send monsters at them.

And don't get frustrated if they beat any challenge you send at them out of frustration. It's a vicious cycle.



See, the Bard almost has motivation. I say almost, because "build an evil empire" is like "cure cancer" - a noble ideal, a great long-term dream, but there are a whole lot of little steps involved to which most poeple don't give a lot of thought. It sounds more like they plan to be generic drunken CE murderhobos, in which case, as mentioned, you're not going to motivate them to do very much at all.

Your best bet is to sit down with them, as a group, and ask them what they want out of the campaign. Not what their characters' goals are, because they don't seem terribly complex, but what the players want. Once you've done that, you have a choice to make. You can either redesign the campaign around what they want, or you can determine that it's beyond your willingness or abilities to provide, and step down as DM. But clearly, expectations are not lining up, and I expect things will get much worse before they get better.

Because expecting generic drunken CE murderhobos to go along with the plot is like herding cats. With only one hand. Also, the hand is missing three fingers.

Before I say anything let me take a second to say, oh my god Red Fel posted on this. But yeah I definitely see what you mean I know at least 2 of them fairly well so I can talk to them anytime. I'm hoping to not have to redesign the whole thing so I'm going to shoot for compromise. And as far as the trolls go you're 100% right it was the result of sitting through literal hours of arguments with them sitting around in field accomplishing nothing and trying to push back to story. I might just have the story bait be more generic and flesh out the area more so they can wander as much as they want then get back to it if they want.

[johnbragg]

I think the trolls were more a reward than a punishment--something to do, something to kill.

[kalasulmar]

I'm a big fan of using modules when they fit the situation and pcs, but I have noticed that some of my more memorable DM incidents are when the party goes off the rails and I have to pull stuff out of thin air. Having unforeseen circumstances pop up can really get the creative juices flowing and make for tons of fun for everybody. That moment when one of the members says "I wonder what's behind this door?" and you kinda start sweating because you haven't decided what is behind that door yet. Some of my finer moments have included a murderous clown and an undead kid that tried to exterminate her whole family. I use published adventures and settings to save time because life doesn't revolve around my gaming table, not because I am unable to generate fun ideas and concepts for my players. Having said that, the only real limitation I place on my players is consequence. They can walk down Murderhobo Highway if they want but I make sure they understand that this isn't some Elder Scrolls type place where murder and theft are only ever punished by a few days in a cell. The world itself is a living, breathing thing and will react accordingly to any and all perceived threats to the current state of affairs.

[Karl Aegis]

I would figure out how these villagers got back from the tournament grounds before the players could find the village. You would think they would have at least spent a night at the city after a night of squandering their wealth. Makes me wonder if this barkeeper has some sort of hidden agenda. Or why the bandits weren't still at the tournament festival or why they hadn't mugged anyone on the way back to town.

[Sacrieur]

[text stuff]

My faith is now restored in humanity. Thank you kind sir.

[Maglubiyet]

When the players are chaotic stupid, some amount of hand holding might be necessary to keep the action moving. If you really want them to go to the capital you could "give them a ride".

"Congratulations brave heroes! Your standing in the tournament ensures you a place in the games in the capital. We travel there in the traditional victory caravan tomorrow morning. Get some rest, you'll need it!"

-- or now that they're slightly off task --

"We are the victory caravan en route to the capital for the tournament games, stopping to water our horses in this one windmill village. Are you not the four brave heroes who did so well in the regional competition yesterday? Come, you must join us! We will ride together!"

They might focus on their own objectives along the way, but the overall narrative will move in the direction you've set.

[atemu1234]

In my experience no matter how good of a story you make or how interesting your planned npcs are, there is a good chance the players will ignore/not see your plot hooks and run off into the area you haven't planned out.

Unfortunately, this is true in my experience too. And once I even had a player try to convince me, as the DM, who wrote the mission and the NPCs, that the LG King was collaborating with the assassin's giguild to gain political power, somehow.

[bjoern]

At times I've been that player. Sometimes what seems like an obvious plot hook to the DM might not be so obvious to the player.

If my DM has an adventure planned, I want to play it ! Sometimes I'm blind to the hints he's dropping for us though.

Just cause my character has +20 to spot and listen doesn't help when I have a -10 to detect plot direction.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Well I've decided to talk to the players to try and figure out what they want. And I'm also making a planned side quest with the boy that will involve him being captured by an evil succubus/witch who tortures young men and turns them into slaves. She also sends the ones she tires of off to the BBEG who is a high priest of an elder god, so that they can undergo a horrible ritual/transformation. If you know the anime tokyo ghoul and have watched to the end of the first season I want to base this off of kaneki ken's transformation at the end of the first season. This way he actually becomes an interesting character and those 3 or so hours aren't actually that wasted. But really it's whatever the players say they want, if you think this is a good idea and/or are familiar with the show and character I mentioned then I would like suggestions on how to mimic his powers.

[Blackhawk748]

Well I've decided to talk to the players to try and figure out what they want. And I'm also making a planned side quest with the boy that will involve him being captured by an evil succubus/witch who tortures young men and turns them into slaves. She also sends the ones she tires of off to the BBEG who is a high priest of an elder god, so that they can undergo a horrible ritual/transformation. If you know the anime tokyo ghoul and have watched to the end of the first season I want to base this off of kaneki ken's transformation at the end of the first season. This way he actually becomes an interesting character and those 3 or so hours aren't actually that wasted. But really it's whatever the players say they want, if you think this is a good idea and/or are familiar with the show and character I mentioned then I would like suggestions on how to mimic his powers.

Havent seen it, but you could look at Half Farspawn or Psuedonatural from LoM. Hell pretty much anything in Lords of Madness is good for an Elder God's minion.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Havent seen it, but you could look at Half Farspawn or Psuedonatural from LoM. Hell pretty much anything in Lords of Madness is good for an Elder God's minion.

The tentacle thing is a definite must, the character is basically a ghoul with tentacles and a huge amount of fast healing.

[Blackhawk748]

The tentacle thing is a definite must, the character is basically a ghoul with tentacles and a huge amount of fast healing.

Well make him a Ghoul (i know there is a template somewhere if you want to go that way) and i know that Shadow creature gives Fast Healing 2, but im sure someone has a better template than that unless you want an uber sneak.

[GreyBlack]

Last night I DMed the first session of a new campaign, I had it start out with them in a tournament set up where they would get invitations to a bigger one in the capital city(which is where the story would start). After the tournament instead of going to the capital they decided they wanted to go to a near by village but none of importance really existed so I had to make one up. When they got there I tried to make it obvious that nothing important was going on so I said there was only like a longhouse and a couple houses with a windmill at the side. They decided they wanted to go to a tavern(ignoring that I told them there were none here) so I said fine there's one in the longhouse(at this point I decided that after they got bored there they could go talk to the village elder and do a simple bandit style quest then leave to the capital. I made up a bartender and 2 people in the tavern so it would look deserted. They decided to talk to one whom I said was just some drunk young man basically and suddenly they want to kidnap him. I think fine so I make up a story about his parents being gone because of bandits so they would be free to take him, fight bandits, and get back to the story. Well him going with them just wasn't enough for one of the players, he wanted a servant boy so after hours(OOC and in game) of the party arguing morality I finally just say sure he says he'll do it if you go fight the bandits. But halfway there one of the players from the anti-kidnapping side tries to steal the boy back and that player's dog. The player gets pissed and goes on a rant about how I'm a horrible DM for not having an actually planned out campaign and just railroading.

So basically they wasted hours forcing me to make stuff up because they didn't want to follow the story and then blame me for not having a coherent story. When I tried to explain this they said it was still my fault for not making them invested in the story or characters. So my question is, was I actually at fault here and if so how can I better invest them in a story or characters?

How can you get them invested in a campaign? Appeal to what they want. My 3 rules of DMing are Know thy Endgame, Know thy Style of Play, and Know thy Players. Are your characters interested in gold? Then promise a big pay day of they follow the plot. Are they just looking to kill stuff? Maybe a side quest to kill minions of the BBEG and a well placed plot hook (Goblins work well for this). Perhaps they're glory hounds? Give a huge contract with the king of the land upon completion. Basically, as long as you know your players, their play style, and your endgame, things will work out.

EDIT: Another key I usually do is telling the players a general idea of what the campaign style will be, e.g. "Horror" or "High Fantasy" or "Epic Fantasy" or "Steampunk," so they know sort of what to expect. For example, my most recent campaign I pitched as, "Dungeon Crawl with Dark Fantasy elements," to which my players drew up characters who might work on that framework.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Well make him a Ghoul (i know there is a template somewhere if you want to go that way) and i know that Shadow creature gives Fast Healing 2, but im sure someone has a better template than that unless you want an uber sneak.

Do you think a refluffed vampire would work better as a ghoul with fast healing? And then just add the pseudonatural template for tentacles?

[Sam K]

Your players clearly have ADD (which should not be confused with having AD&D).

My suggestion; run some "lost" style encounters. Have them run into random encounters that make little sense (dire camels in a swamp, effiminate dwarven bandits with french accents), each with some possible hook (all the dire camels have mumified riders (not the undead type) each holding parts of a map, one of the dwarves is dressed up to resemble a characters mother).

Just keep throwing stuff like that at them until they decide that one of the hooks is something worth following. The trick with CN players is to give them CN problems, and go from there. Might not be the game you want to run, though...

[Sacrieur]

When the players are chaotic stupid, some amount of hand holding might be necessary to keep the action moving. If you really want them to go to the capital you could "give them a ride".

Not at all. If they're chaotic stupid the world will react to them. You can't just go around taking slaves and doing as you please without at least a paladin or some other fierce force of law taking notice. They will bear down on you like a cat on a freshly caught still flopping tuna fish.

PC's have free will and it's a deadly sin to remove this from them. They have the final say in what their characters do, full stop.



They might focus on their own objectives along the way, but the overall narrative will move in the direction you've set.

Or you know, they could just read a novel.



Unfortunately, this is true in my experience too. And once I even had a player try to convince me, as the DM, who wrote the mission and the NPCs, that the LG King was collaborating with the assassin's giguild to gain political power, somehow.

That sounds like a fun plot. There are ways to hide your alignment. As a general rule, there are always exceptions to the rule. If there isn't one then make something up.



Well I've decided to talk to the players to try and figure out what they want. And I'm also making a planned side quest with the boy that will involve him being captured by an evil succubus/witch who tortures young men and turns them into slaves. She also sends the ones she tires of off to the BBEG who is a high priest of an elder god, so that they can undergo a horrible ritual/transformation. If you know the anime tokyo ghoul and have watched to the end of the first season I want to base this off of kaneki ken's transformation at the end of the first season. This way he actually becomes an interesting character and those 3 or so hours aren't actually that wasted. But really it's whatever the players say they want, if you think this is a good idea and/or are familiar with the show and character I mentioned then I would like suggestions on how to mimic his powers.

This is really positive. You're taking steps forward to have the world react to the players in a very interesting way.

A vast knowledge of literature, TV, and cinema can aid you immensely when building a world. It permits you to draw upon tropes in a natural way, knowing what to avoid and what to implement and how, because it's already been done before. I particularly enjoy anime as a source, since they can have a literature-esque plot with a strong presentation to use as a base. When I'm designing something for players I'll often think what would Higurashi do?

[atemu1234]

That sounds like a fun plot. There are ways to hide your alignment. As a general rule, there are always exceptions to the rule. If there isn't one then make something up.

True; but he was trying to convince ME that it was. He wasn't trying to convince the players. Basically he was telling me that I was somehow fooled by the king or something... it was an odd situation, but it got better.

[Maglubiyet]

Not at all. If they're chaotic stupid the world will react to them....
Or you know, they could just read a novel.


I know, the ultimate question of "to railroad or not to railroad".

Clearly in this case the players want something more but for some reason just aren't getting the hints the DM is dropping for them. I've been a player in that type of world and it can get frustrating. You want to know what the storyline is but the DM will only initiate it if you follow the precise course of action he is looking for, like an 80's text-based adventure game ("push door", "pull door", "open door", " unlock door" -THE DOOR IS CLOSED. IT IS THE ONLY EXIT OUT OF THIS ROOM.).

Sometimes for the sake of the game the DM needs to move things along. Otherwise it degenerates into the murderhobo scenario described that only appeals to a few types of players.