Raising an Evil Dragon

[Falcon X]

* Early HoTDQ spoilers

So, one of my players is a dragon scholar and managed to capture the Black Dragon eggs from Episode 3. She will likely want to hatch them and raise them as her own.

So, nature vs. nurture: Black Dragons are considered evil by nature. Is it possible to raise one to not be evil? Even so, will it be a constant struggle his whole life between good and evil? Is there an innate call to belong among other evil dragons? Etc...

Is there precedence in any D&D books (old and new) for answers to these questions?

[cobaltstarfire]

If you want to throw what is historically an always chaotic evil aliment aside I think it can be done but it would be really hard.

The 3.5 draconomicon states that they have a very large inherited set of practical knowledge from their parents (although they aren't aware of it until the situation dictates they remember it). I think they would be prone to dealing with problems in an evil or at least chaotic way, but could be taught that it isn't "good" to do things in that way.

They may still turn out evil, as they grow in size and power though, since there aren't as many dire consequences for something like a dragon if they decide to engage in evil deeds. So they'd have to have a very strong sense of morality and responsibility drilled into them probably?

Also a check is needed to keep them from treating whoever is trying to rear them as a captor. They're intelligent beings as soon as they hatch afterall.

[Envyus]

Dragons are born intelligent and believing themselves superior to those around them. Anyway lots of people don't notice this in the module. But the Eggs can't hatch on the road. They need to be in a murky place like that cave they were found in or submerged in swamp mud. Until that happens they just stay like they appear to be a week away from hatching. So unless they go to a swamp and dunk them in it or go back to the end of the cave and wait a week the eggs won't hatch.

Added on the Dragon would probably eat it's owners face eventually.

In Ghosts of Dragonspear castle. The characters stumble across a Black Dragon egg right as it hatches. It becomes attached to the first PC it sees and listens to straightforward commands. However it becomes increasingly violent the more it takes place in combat. Doing stuff like ignoring the PC it is attached to inorder to eat the bodies of those it has slain and attacking weak looking creatures even if they would be helpful to eat them.

If it meets it's parent or another black dragon it becomes more attached to them then to the PC's and will try and stay with them. If for some reason the PC's fight the parent dragon, it waits for the PC's to fall then runs over and drags their bodies away to eat them.

[cobaltstarfire]

If it meets it's parent or another black dragon it becomes more attached to them then to the PC's and will try and stay with them. If for some reason the PC's fight the parent dragon, it waits for the PC's to fall then runs over and drags their bodies away to eat them.


This is a direct contradiction to the 3.5 description for black dragons at least. The mother has nothing to do with the eggs (or even the father) after they are laid, and the father (who is responsible for keeping the eggs safe) will only tolerate the wyrmlings for a while before deciding they'd be nice to eat, or at least kill because get off my swamp ya darn kids!

[calebrus]

Anyway lots of people don't notice this in the module. But the Eggs can't hatch on the road.

Even if the book didn't say that, it's common sense.
An egg laid doesn't just automatically grow and hatch. It needs the proper environment. The PC took it out of that environment. Unless it gets placed back into a suitable environment pretty much immediately it will never hatch. The baby dragon inside is going to die very, very soon unless that gets taken care of right away.

[Falcon X]

Good leads, thanks!

I'm reading the Draconomicon now, and it seems to be exactly what I was looking for.


In Ghosts of Dragonspear castle. The characters stumble across a Black Dragon egg right as it hatches. It becomes attached to the first PC it sees and listens to straightforward commands. However it becomes increasingly violent the more it takes place in combat. Doing stuff like ignoring the PC it is attached to inorder to eat the bodies of those it has slain and attacking weak looking creatures even if they would be helpful to eat them.
This might also be a big help as it shows practically a progression the players might see. I'll try to get a copy of Ghosts of Dragonspear for inspiration.

As a whole, I expect the player to put the eggs into storage while the adventure goes on, or find a caretaker. I'll pretend the eggs are farther from hatching, because I'll want them to roleplay the hatching if possible. Assuming the character survives, by the end of our campaign (I'm integrating in other modules), she should have her own mansion and be wealthy enough to at least try to raise it the right way.
Then again... I'll be excited to play out the Ghosts of Dragonspear progression if she decides to take them with her.

[Envyus]

This is a direct contradiction to the 3.5 description for black dragons at least. The mother has nothing to do with the eggs (or even the father) after they are laid, and the father (who is responsible for keeping the eggs safe) will only tolerate the wyrmlings for a while before deciding they'd be nice to eat, or at least kill because get off my swamp ya darn kids!

It's the father in this case. One Egg the "PC's" Wyrmling hatched before the others. (And the others have been corrupted by an alter to Olhydra the father stole and are going to hatch as weird water elemental dragon things.) In this case the father just does not want his mate to know he screwed up and had one of the Eggs stolen from him.

[Envyus]

Even if the book didn't say that, it's common sense.
An egg laid doesn't just automatically grow and hatch. It needs the proper environment. The PC took it out of that environment. Unless it gets placed back into a suitable environment pretty much immediately it will never hatch. The baby dragon inside is going to die very, very soon unless that gets taken care of right away.

In this case it's stated the Baby Dragon just sort of stays in status until put back in the proper environment. Probably something to do with the magic nature of dragons.

[jaydubs]

* Early HoTDQ spoilers

So, one of my players is a dragon scholar and managed to capture the Black Dragon eggs from Episode 3. She will likely want to hatch them and raise them as her own.

So, nature vs. nurture: Black Dragons are considered evil by nature. Is it possible to raise one to not be evil? Even so, will it be a constant struggle his whole life between good and evil? Is there an innate call to belong among other evil dragons? Etc...

Is there precedence in any D&D books (old and new) for answers to these questions?

To quote the Monster Manual:

The alignment specified in a monster's stat block is the default. Feel free to depart from it and change a monster's alignment to suit the needs of your campaign. If you want a good-aligned green dragon or an evil storm giant, there's nothing stopping you.

[Pyon]

Well the way I would rule it, a dragon would have to be taught through superiority. If the PC showed themselves to be the "Alpha" since the dragon is born, they could probably teach it morals and stuff. The PC would just have to stay constantly stronger than the dragon. Or at least seem like it.

[JFahy]

I'd expect chromatic hatchlings to have some nasty tendencies, and overcoming them would be a serious struggle.

Maybe ask the player, the first time they're trying to influence the baby dragon's behavior, how they're doing it. Don't place any obvious emphasis on the question, but use it to determine what kind of relationship the two end up having...

Animal Handling: Effective at first, losing effectiveness as the dragon's Intelligence ticks upwards. Probably leads to the dragon biding its time until it sees a good chance to go for the throat.

Intimidate: Effective for exactly as long as the dragon perceives the character to be stronger.

Persuasion + consistently kind treatment + a little help from 'non-intrusive' abilities that dragon won't resent later, like Bardic Inspiration or Calm Emotions: Up to you - gotta decide what you and your group are comfortable with. Many people will tell you that one non-evil drow was way too many, but maybe after a long bumpy road you'll decide you can live with one non-evil chromatic. :smallsmile:

[Inevitability]

Realize that many people may dislike black dragons. When one of those destroyed your village and ate your children last year, you are probably not too happy when you see a few adventurers raising some dragons.

Also, make sure to have the black dragon in chapter 6 catch word of the PC's activities. Maybe he drops by once they arrive in his swamp?

[Falcon X]

Realize that many people may dislike black dragons. When one of those destroyed your village and ate your children last year, you are probably not too happy when you see a few adventurers raising some dragons.

Also, make sure to have the black dragon in chapter 6 catch word of the PC's activities. Maybe he drops by once they arrive in his swamp?
Speaking of, do we really know where these 3 eggs came from? For all we know, they are from the dragons in Chapter 6, as they are allies of the Cult of the Dragon.

[cobaltstarfire]

Just keep in mind that Black Dragons don't especially care about their offspring, and are quite happy to eat them.

Although these ones since presumably the eggs have a purpose may still want the wyrmling(s) back in order to serve their original purpose.

[JFahy]

Speaking of, do we really know where these 3 eggs came from? For all we know, they are from the dragons in Chapter 6, as they are allies of the Cult of the Dragon.

I don't think they ever say - I had the cult transporting them to Chapter 6 to be 'fostered'.
Luckily the PCs never asked anybody where the eggs came from, and the eggs had an
accident en route, so problem mostly solved.

I agree it makes sense for a creature in Chapter 6 (avoiding spoilers) to take an interest in them.