Improving frontline ability for my fighter

[Cheesyy]

Hey

Currently I am a few sessions into a campaign and have recently hit level 4 playing 3.5e on Roll20. I am fairly new to the game having only played one other short campaign that fell apart due to players not being able to commit so i don't have a lot of experience with the game. I have access to most of the books due to my friend who is also the DM having all of the books and letting me borrow what i need and i plan on buying my own copies of the books as I go along and find them useful.

My issue im having currently is that when my fighter was level 3 I was not having any issues with combat and being the frontline for my party which consists of a rogue, bard and a shadowcaster/wizard. I now find myself taking a lot of damage and not being able to kill things as quickly. I am wondering what would be a good direction to go I want to still continue to use a 2 handed weapon i currently use a greatsword for flavour reasons as i like the idea of cleaving things apart with a giant sword however any form of 2 handed weapon would probably do. I want to stick with the playstyle of being able to run in and do damage however i don't know what is the best way to achieve this from where I am currently I was considering prestige classing into blackguard as it looked fun and so I had been putting some skill points towards that however I am not completely sold on the blackguard idea.

Anyways I will stop rambling and post Character stats and information


Race - Human
Class - Fighter level 4

Stats
HP - 29
STR - 19 Base +2 from gloves - 21
DEX - 16
CON - 13
INT - 12
WIS - 10
CHA - 10

Weapons
- Masterwork Greatsword
- +1 Composite Longbow (for a ranged option just in case)

Armor
- +1 Mithral Chain Shirt

Magic Items
- Crystal of Lifedrinking (10 charges per day restore 1hp on damaging an enemy)
- Gauntlets of Ogre Power (+2 STR)

Feats
- Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
- Power Attack
- Cleave
- Endurance
- Dodge
- Die Hard

Any ideas/suggestions for where to go from here would be useful also if I left out any important information please let me know and I will add it

Cheers

EDIT -
All books are available except unearthed arcana i think it was called as the DM says most of that stuff is broken

[atemu1234]

Well, the good news is that at level four, you're still in a perfectly manageable position to start taking levels in Warblade from Tome of Battle. You can have a melee character that at least stands a chance of keeping up with casters, and you'll still get ninth level maneuvers.

[Vhaidara]

First, we need to know what books are on the table.

Second, things to fix
1. Feats: Most of your feats are bad in an All Books environment. The only good one on its own is Power Attack (others are requirements for other good things). Particularly offensive are Endurance and Weapon Focus.
2. Equipment: Lifedrinking Crystal isn't very effective. It would be fine, but the armor equivalent (I forget the name) costs the same, and blocks 10 damage/day. That may sound like the same end result, but the weapon version requires you to land attack rolls for your damage negation, while the armor one is guaranteed to work.
3. Stats: If possible, swap your Int and Con. 13 Con doesn't really do much of anything. 13 Int, meanwhile, opens you up to the world of being a Control Fighter, since it unlocks Combat Expertise and, most importantly, Improved Trip. With a 16 Dex, Combat Reflexes is a solid feat for you, and grabbing a trip weapon would allow you to lock down a section of the battlefield.

Without knowing what books are available to you, this is the most I can really give for advice.

[Bronk]

If switching stats is on the table, I'd start by switching that 16 into Con, then get a set of full plate.

[Cheesyy]

Thanks for some good replies i have edited main post to add that i have access to almost all books except unearthed arcana

I like the idea of being able to keep up with casters in damage by looking into warblade as up until now i have been the only dealing any damage I had to take down an owlbear almost solo as my party either kept missing or just didn't do anything useful.

I'm not sure how many of my feats or stats i would be able to change. dodge has been useful for me up until now i only took it because my friend told me it was useful and i found out later there are better options.

[Vhaidara]

If switching stats is on the table, I'd start by switching that 16 into Con, then get a set of full plate.

If you plan to go for just damage, go for this and switch over to levelling Warblade. Focus on Iron Heart and Diamond Mind, those two disciplines are fantastic.

[Cheesyy]

If you plan to go for just damage, go for this and switch over to levelling Warblade. Focus on Iron Heart and Diamond Mind, those two disciplines are fantastic.

Wouldn't that be an issue for movement? I have always been advised against full plate to be as mobile as possible

However I am not sure myself and that's just off the advice of my party

[Feint's End]

Echo what everybody else has said.

-ask to redistribute attributes. 16 to con, 12 to dex and 13 to int (for feat requirements)

-go straight warblade from here onwards

-ask for retraining for all feats except power attack ... We can help you with options. If retraining is not an option then you can get manifested psychic reformation by a psion of at least 7th level. This however implies you'll be able to find one with relative ease.

Focus on diamond mind and stone dragon if you want to go tanky

Edit:

Wouldn't that be an issue for movement? I have always been advised against full plate to be as mobile as possible

However I am not sure myself and that's just off the advice of my party

Mobility doesn't come from movement speed. You need other things for that. Generally it's a much better idea to just keep enemies near you via various lock down options.

[Telonius]

Before giving any more advice, I'd like to ask a few things first. You mention that the rest of your party hasn't really been contributing all that much. How experienced are they? What sort of things have they been casting?

The reason I ask this, is that it sounds like you have a very inexperienced or low-powered group, if you're talking about a wizard that multiclasses to Shadowcaster, two classes that are kind of tricky to improve (Rogue and Bard), and a DM who bans Unearthed Arcana (of all things). The people on the boards here are usually used to players having kind of the opposite problem: Fighters not keeping up with the game-breaking potential of things like Wizards and Clerics. If it's just a matter of not taking damage and dealing more damage, there are a few really easy ways to do just that. People can also suggest things things that will turn you into a half-aberration monstrosity that can shoot laser beams out of its eyes after pledging your soul to the forces of Dark Chaos to gain psionic abilities instead of your fighter feats.

If you're really outshining the rest of your party as it is, I'd be at least a little cautious about going all-out Warblade (or more likely Crusader, if you want to make taking damage work for you instead of against you). That's the kind of thing that can turn an inexperienced DM off of ToB for good. You've made some good choices already - Power Attack and Greatsword is the standard-issue melee combination for a reason. Instead of multiclassing, I'd suggest just taking a few feats of Martial Study and Martial Stance. Get your Iron Heart Surge and Wall of Blades. Get the Shock Trooper feat. Then, look for some items to shore up your weaknesses. Check out Shax's Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29) for some ideas.

[Bronk]

Wouldn't that be an issue for movement? I have always been advised against full plate to be as mobile as possible

However I am not sure myself and that's just off the advice of my party

Your land movement speed would probably drop to 20' (because of wearing heavy armor) unless you can get a mithral version (which would make your full plate medium armor). Perhaps you could sell your current set to defray the costs.

It shouldn't really be that much of a problem though. For overland travel you can use a mount, and in battle... you're the tank, so your teammates will just have to adjust.

Also, when you hit fifth level, see if you can convince the wizard to cast 'haste' on everyone before battle. That'll give everyone another attack on a full attack as well as boosting AC, ref saves, and land speed.

[Cheesyy]

Before giving any more advice, I'd like to ask a few things first. You mention that the rest of your party hasn't really been contributing all that much. How experienced are they? What sort of things have they been casting?

The rest of the group are fairly new also however the DM has been playing for 8 years and a DM for 7 i'm not sure entirely why he banned unearthed arcana he just doesn't like some of the stuff in there.

I will check out that page thanks. I think I am getting a bit of an idea into where i want this character to head with some of the information provided

[Cheesyy]

Your land movement speed would probably drop to 20' (because of wearing heavy armor) unless you can get a mithral version (which would make your full plate medium armor). Perhaps you could sell your current set to defray the costs.

It shouldn't really be that much of a problem though. For overland travel you can use a mount, and in battle... you're the tank, so your teammates will just have to adjust.

Also, when you hit fifth level, see if you can convince the wizard to cast 'haste' on everyone before battle. That'll give everyone another attack on a full attack as well as boosting AC, ref saves, and land speed.

Even the Mithral version making plate into medium armor would make my land movement speed 20' however I think I could work around this or would i be better to just go for a mithral chainmail to keep the 30' movement?

[ComaVision]

Even the Mithral version making plate into medium armor would make my land movement speed 20' however I think I could work around this or would i be better to just go for a mithral chainmail to keep the 30' movement?

You could just gets Boots of Springing and Striding to make up the difference. Armour is much more reliable AC than the Dodge feat.

[bjoern]

Even the Mithral version making plate into medium armor would make my land movement speed 20' however I think I could work around this or would i be better to just go for a mithral chainmail to keep the 30' movement?

The usual go to armor is mithril breastplate. Counts as light so you keep your movement, cheaper than putting mithril on a suit of full plate, +5 to AC and +5 max dex bonus. Throw a little more gold at it to make it +1 or +2 also.

Edit--
For 5200 you can get +1 mithtil breast plate. That gives +6AC and +5 max dex. For another 3k you can give it another +1AC.

mithril breast plate is very comparable to full plate when a comparable amount of money is invested in it. But it let's you keep your movement at 30' and has lower ASF and armor check penalties.

[rrwoods]

I have to second the notion that entering a tome of battle class in a party this low-op could give the wrong impression. If you're going to be asking to retrain feats and reassign stats, and multiclass into warblade, you want to be very careful you don't outshine the group as a result, or maybe offer them assistance in the same manner the helpful folks here have just assisted you.

[Cheesyy]

well....

before i got to implement any of this we just had a session and i got eaten by a hydra.....

so rerolling time thanks everyone for input though any suggestions on a new class for being a frontline melee damage because we pretty much dont have any other melee

[Lerondiel]

well....

before i got to implement any of this we just had a session and i got eaten by a hydra.....

so rerolling time thanks everyone for input though any suggestions on a new class for being a frontline melee damage because we pretty much dont have any other melee


Best. Reply. Ever.



But to throw my voice in as well...if that was your 2nd ever character, the complexity of crusaders/warblades isnt really where you want to go yet.

Taking fighter all the way can be a great plan while you're exploring all the tactical options that feats can give. Players Handbook 2 and Complete Warrior have a lot.
Look up Shock Trooper (as mentioned before), Improved Trip, Melee Weapon Mastery, Karmic Strike/Robilars Gambit, Elusive Target, Weapon Style feats, etc

[chaos_redefined]

I'd suggest a Barbarian for a new player over a Fighter. Power Attack -> Imp. Bull Rush -> Shock Trooper.

[Seharvepernfan]

Well, dodge/endurance/die hard aren't doing you many favors. You'll be much better off with power attack, cleave, and combat reflexes.

Spiked chains are the best weapons.

You're a fighter, put on some heavier armor. I know speed is very useful, but armor is better.

It's too bad you don't have a cleric. Shield Other really helps, as does bless/protection from evil and other such buffs. The bard can help you out there, if they are willing. If not, just buy them wands once you can afford them.

A wand of enlarge person for the wizard to use on you would be very helpful. Being large is a huge benefit (no pun intended) most of the time.

Yeah, once you hit about 3rd level, **** starts getting hard for fighters. You really have to utilize planning and the environment or else you'll just fail against CR equivalent enemies. Don't think that just because you're an x-level fighter that you're the equal in combat of an x-leveled monster; they are often much deadlier. You are expected to fight them with the full benefits of a party.

Damage is only useful if it can end the fight for you before the fight ends you. If it can't, you need to screw with your enemies until it can. Trip, disarm, sunder, overrun, bull rush; these are your tools. You are proficient with tower shields, I suggest getting one. In certain situations, they are total life savers.

There's a rogue in your party; use it. Knowing of a fight before it happens can completely change the equation for you. Fighting an enemy after a full-round + surprise round of sneak attacks is much easier for you. Get that rogue to flank with you sometimes.

Or you can puss out and play a warblade. :smalltongue:

[Red Fel]

so rerolling time thanks everyone for input though any suggestions on a new class for being a frontline melee damage because we pretty much dont have any other melee

Okay. I'm going to throw out three options. Two are fairly straightforward options, classwise, but require you to keep track of abilities (similar to how a spellcaster tracks his spells); the third is simpler in terms of resources, but would likely require you to look into switching into a PrC at some point. Here they are: Warblade. As others have said, Warblade is one of the golden children of melee combat. The right build can turn a Warblade into a melee blender, and with its high optimization floor, it's hard to do badly. The upside is that you'll be able to remain highly relevant, as melee goes; the downside is that you'll need to keep track of your maneuvers. By using the maneuver cards (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) that WotC has made available online, however, you can do so fairly easily, and ToB mechanics aren't hard to wrap your head around with some practice. Crusader. Others have mentioned the Warblade, as have I, and with good reason; but it would be a sin to ignore the Crusader, ToB's other crown prince of melee. While his options are fewer and his recovery mechanic is more dubious, he is the undisputed (shut up, Knight, I said undisputed) king of lockdowns. With the Thicket of Blades stance and a few choice feats, you can completely freeze anyone within your threatened area; with a few other choice feats and a couple of key maneuvers, you can force enemies to attack you or take penalties (and provoke AoOs, resulting in more lockdown). An enemy that can't fight is an enemy you can kill at your leisure, and Crusader makes it happen. Like Warblade, Crusader is a strong class with a high optimization floor, and can easily be taken from levels 1-20 without much concern. (If you find yourself feat-starved, a two-level dip in Fighter couldn't hurt.) Barbarian. Others have mentioned this, but it bears repeating; Barbarians are beasts. Even ignoring Unearthed Arcana, there are some great ACFs for the Barbarian, including the Spirit Lion Totem in Complete Champion, which trades out Fast Movement for the coveted Pounce ability. With the right race choice, a Pounce-barian can murder enemies in groups before they can land a single attack. No maneuvers needed, so that's simple. If you want to spice him up, grabbing a PrC like Frostrager or Fist of the Forest can prove overwhelmingly powerful, but you probably want to take a PrC that gives you more class features, as Barbarians, while tough, could do with a bit more versatility.
As an aside, if you're really worried about losing movement speed, consider playing a Dwarf. Yes, you have reduced movement speed at the outset, but wearing heavy armor doesn't make it worse. Further, being a Dwarf opens up one of my favorite PrCs, the Ironsoul Forgemaster from MoI. (Check my extended sig for a handbook.)

[DMVerdandi]

oooh. Now that you have the ability to re-roll a new character, it is tiem.

Roll yourself up a cleric, my friend.

If you can get heroics on your list,DO IT. (You can swap one cleric spell for another of equal level, or simply add them by speaking with the DM[as it says in the DMG]).


Other than that beautiful jewel, cleric has some really REALLY awesome buffs for becoming a combat monster. Also, take the spontaneous domain casting ACF. Essentially, it swaps out your spontaneous healing/inflict spells that you normally get as a cleric for your domain.
I really like it because it really lets increase the impact of your domain, and takes away that heal-bot connotation.

Personally, I also suggest an atheist cleric, as you can just be a hero for whatever concept you like, rather than necessarily being tied down to a pre-made doctrine.


Since everyone seems to be at an unoptimized level, I am NOT going to suggest Divine Metamagic.

Instead, possibly just metamagic feats on their own and maybe some item creation feats.
Extend spell, Smiting Spell, and Apprentice[Spellcaster] are decent feats. Divine feats can be cool too.