Non-lethal damage and immunities

[Uncle Half]

Hello everyone!

I had a thought about some stuff recently. I've been reading about Bone Knight PrC, and it says that at 4th level, his bone armor grants him immunity to stunning attacks and non-lethal damage.
The question is, if this character somehow gains Regeneration (Ex) ability, does he become immune to most forms of damage (excluding fire, acid, that stuff), because Regeneration converts them to non-lethal, which is he immune to? Bone Knights are still alive, so they are able to regenerate. What do you think about that? :)

[Barstro]

Hello everyone!

I had a thought about some stuff recently. I've been reading about Bone Knight PrC, and it says that at 4th level, his bone armor grants him immunity to stunning attacks and non-lethal damage.
The question is, if this character somehow gains Regeneration (Ex) ability, does he become immune to most forms of damage (excluding fire, acid, that stuff), because Regeneration converts them to non-lethal, which is he immune to? Bone Knights are still alive, so they are able to regenerate. What do you think about that? :)

I'll go with some Rules Lawyering here (Based on rules I found on the Internet)
Your language

his bone armor grants him immunity to stunning attacks and non-lethal damage

Regeneration

Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage.

Looking at those two and Real World Physics (much like dividing by zero, this is where multiple interpretations come in).
1) Enemy attack with lethal damage. Rolls high enough to get past the bone armor's bonus, and hits.
2) This hit did lethal damage of (we'll just say) 20 points.
3) Regeneration turns that damage into nonlethal damage.
4) That change in damage type happened AFTER the armor had its effect, so there is nothing that the armor can use its ability on.

In summary, the armor cannot retroactively prevent damage that was already dealt.

[Uncle Half]

Thanks for the reply.
But again, if (somehow) a character would gain an immunity to non-lethal damage as an ability, not an enchantment from char's equipment, then how it would work? Would the conversion be applied first, or the immunity?

[AmberVael]

I would disagree with Barstro's assessment of the situation. Regeneration states that all damage you take is nonlethal, so when you take damage, it is nonlethal, thus your bone armor immunity applies. Just because you applied the armor bonus from bone armor earlier doesn't mean you don't use the rest of it later. And the way regeneration is worded is that damage you take just is nonlethal, so it should be applying pretty much before anything else.

And yes, this combination gives you immunity to the vast majority of damage forms, and its an idea that has been bandied about before (see: Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?101587-D-amp-D-3-5-The-Emerald-Legion-Mass-Producing-Ikea-Tarrasques) among others.)

[claypigeons]

Magic is magic. If your armour grants you an effect/ability, you have it until you take the armour off (or get hit with disjunction).

You don't "get past the armour bonus" without removing the armour, which negates the effect.

It's no different than if you had a spell that granted Regeneration. Damage dealt to you is nonlethal, except for the type(s) that bypass your Regeneration.

[Barstro]

and Real World Physics (much like dividing by zero, this is where multiple interpretations come in).

See? I told you. :smallbiggrin:

[Fouredged Sword]

The rules strongly suggest, if not outright state, that a creature that is immune to non-lethal damage loses any regeneration. While this falls into a rule loophole, it would not fly at my table as opposed to the spirit of the rules.

[DeltaEmil]

The rules only state that a creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration special ability.


A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

Most creatures immune to nonlethal damage just happen to be creatures that don't have a Constitution score (undead and constructs), and thus couldn't have the regeneration ability. Being a bone knight just gives you undead-like qualities.

[Uncle Half]

The rules only state that a creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration special ability.



Most creatures immune to nonlethal damage just happen to be creatures that don't have a Constitution score (undead and constructs), and thus couldn't have the regeneration ability. Being a bone knight just gives you undead-like qualities.

And that's why i noted that Bone Knight is still a living creature, while having this immunity. Thank you all for the explanation :)