PDA

View Full Version : Looking for a system...



ddude987
2015-03-16, 10:44 AM
Hey giant!

one of my friends is looking for a system that has the following capabilities/features
1. Modern Era (not shadowrun or similar futuristic)
2. No magic (or can be played with no magic even if magic is in the rules)
3. Gritty rules (not a drama system like Savage Worlds or 7th Sea)

d20 modern is an option but we're looking for other options. Thanks!

also, there should totally be a dedicated looking for a system thread.

Mutazoia
2015-03-16, 11:13 AM
Hey giant!

one of my friends is looking for a system that has the following capabilities/features
1. Modern Era (not shadowrun or similar futuristic)
2. No magic (or can be played with no magic even if magic is in the rules)
3. Gritty rules (not a drama system like Savage Worlds or 7th Sea)

d20 modern is an option but we're looking for other options. Thanks!

also, there should totally be a dedicated looking for a system thread.

If you can track down a copy (not that hard actually), the old Top Secret S/I rules were pretty damned good :)

Kid Jake
2015-03-16, 11:21 AM
New World of Darkness might work, I've often considered running a Mafia type game using it.

Maglubiyet
2015-03-16, 11:25 AM
GURPS is the answer to almost any "which RPG would work with..."

Kiero
2015-03-16, 11:30 AM
New World of Darkness might work, I've often considered running a Mafia type game using it.

Indeed, the GMC updated version, using optional rules like Beaten Down would fit this pretty well.

ddude987
2015-03-16, 11:58 AM
New World of Darkness might work, I've often considered running a Mafia type game using it.


If you can track down a copy (not that hard actually), the old Top Secret S/I rules were pretty damned good :)


Indeed, the GMC updated version, using optional rules like Beaten Down would fit this pretty well.

I'll check these out! thanks

ddude987
2015-03-16, 05:15 PM
From what is written in the world of darkness source book, its a dramatic system. I haven't checked out the gmc update or beat down rules yet. I'll keep reading into it, but the DM doesn't want a drama system. He likes gritty rules for everything -___-

Karl Aegis
2015-03-16, 05:45 PM
Sounds like Terra the Gunslinger to me. If you want a newer version with a crossover with Tenra Bansho Zero you can check out Tenra War. Tenra Bansho Zero itself has magical giant robots and Buddhist Monks, so it probably doesn't count.

Mr Beer
2015-03-16, 05:53 PM
GURPS is the answer to almost any "which RPG would work with..."

+1

Also, GURPS is a good choice for gritty. In a no-magic, modern setting, combat is lethal.

SouthpawSoldier
2015-03-16, 05:55 PM
This is probably the 4th or 5th time I've shared this. Forget where I first saw it, but Google searches bring it up across many blogs and forums. I've even poster version sold as game-room décor.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_b_Wux_kl6mM/TT2yJBmttCI/AAAAAAAAAcw/bKml21bJ-y8/s1600/rpgchart14.gif

Kiero
2015-03-16, 06:30 PM
From what is written in the world of darkness source book, its a dramatic system. I haven't checked out the gmc update or beat down rules yet. I'll keep reading into it, but the DM doesn't want a drama system. He likes gritty rules for everything -___-

It's not "a dramatic system", it's a fairly regular rules-medium system with some largely meaningless fluff about what it's "supposed" to be for. You can easily ignore all the "personal horror" guff and use it to run regular people in contemporary setting games.

Eisenheim
2015-03-16, 06:37 PM
can you elaborate on what you mean when you contrast 'gritty' and 'dramatic' systems?

Milodiah
2015-03-16, 09:26 PM
BRP, generally known as Call of Cthulhu. Obviously it has the Cthulhu Mythos in it, but it's built the way Lovecraft wanted- make everything else as realistic as possible, so the sudden appearance of the monstrously impossible contrasts all the more. Cut the monstrously impossible, and it's one of the most realistic (simple) systems I've seen in a long time. For example, you can get a TPK in one round if the bad guy's got a Tommy gun, if your definition of "realism" translates to "how squishy are human beings".

VincentTakeda
2015-03-17, 05:29 AM
I am somewhat incensed that the above chart does not include heroes unlimited or ninjas and superspies...

Anonymouswizard
2015-03-17, 06:40 AM
Going by the suggestions above, I'd suggest nWoD if you want simple character creation, it may claim to be a dramatic system, but the actual narrativist rules show in 2e where they are still light enough to be ignored. The one time I ran a Vampire game it was action adventure instead of horror (by mistake, it never ran long enough to get to the war bit), and probably would have been gritty and realistic without all the vampire powers. Do no be turned off by it's claims.

GURPS is great if you don't mind complex character creation or building around provided templates. It requires a lot more up front than nWoD, but is probably closer to what you want.

BRP/CoC was mentioned, and deserves an honourable mention of being between the two extremes of nWoD and GURPS, although I'm not sure if it has an alternative to rolling stats, and I haven't seen the latest edition. As long as you like d% systems it's probably the best overall, but has it's quirks.

But really, I suggest Unknown Armies. Street-level campaigns are meant to be run without magic (but are fine when it is there), and the system has the following benefits:
-the system is simple, with 4 stats and DIY skills, and three ways to get rerolls/flip-flops for a short time.
-characters come out of character creation with an obsession, fear, rage and noble triggers, and some notches on the madness meters (of which 4 represent things that anyone could experience, and the fifth is 'freaky stuff').
-if you want more difference between characters while still remaining realistic, look at avatars. Their first two channels are generally things that you could encounter in real life, although rarely.
-It's gritty enough that the combat chapter begins with advice on avoiding a fight, and even without guns a fight with mooks can leave you with most of your party close to death. Unless your group is built to go first and hit hard you likely want to avoid meaningless combat, and I recommend going in with the best thing you can have a reason to legally carry (my only game in it we carried around an archery set, a metal cored kendo stick [a.k.a. the thwacky stick], a sledgehammer, and a golf club that was replaced by a sword disguised as an umbrella).

goto124
2015-03-17, 07:44 AM
a sword disguised as an umbrella).

Ordinary umbrellas make great weapons, shields, and parachutes :P

(Can you use an umbrella to slow down falls, and how well does it work?)

Mr. Mask
2015-03-17, 08:03 AM
For gritty, you could try Twilight 2013. It is intended for a post societal collapse setting, but I think it would be easy to bring it into the normal modern day (it might even have a sourcebook for it). The rules may be harder than your group wants, though.


EDIT: Warhammer is low fantasy?

Kiero
2015-03-17, 08:09 AM
EDIT: Warhammer is low fantasy?

It can be, depends where the game is set. Our long-running one was in the Border Princes, which is a much poorer, more sparsely populated place than the Empire. Actual users of magic were quite uncommon, besides the wizard we had in the party.

Mr.Moron
2015-03-17, 08:14 AM
It's not "a dramatic system", it's a fairly regular rules-medium system with some largely meaningless fluff about what it's "supposed" to be for. You can easily ignore all the "personal horror" guff and use it to run regular people in contemporary setting games.

What I think the OP means by this is that it contains meta-resources (Willpower) and RP directives (Vice, Virtue) that convey mechanical benefits.

Presumably in this context a "Gritty" system lets the dice fall where they do on a relatively flat curve and makes no distinction between PCs and "Nameless NPC #481" in terms of how the rules treat them, and what their power levels are.

Kiero
2015-03-17, 08:32 AM
What I think the OP means by this is that it contains meta-resources (Willpower) and RP directives (Vice, Virtue) that convey mechanical benefits.

Presumably in this context a "Gritty" system lets the dice fall where they do on a relatively flat curve and makes no distinction between PCs and "Nameless NPC #481" in terms of how the rules treat them, and what their power levels are.

If you have no supernatural stuff going on, the only thing Willpower does is give you three extra dice to roll when you spend it. The only thing Virtue and Vice does is provide opportunities to recover Willpower. There are no other meta-resources, there's no "dramatic editing" or anything like that. As I said, nWoD is a routine rules-medium system.

Lacking levels, and if you factor in stuff like Beaten Down, nWoD (post-GMC) does a much better job of flattened power ranges than the likes of D20 systems. Without supernatural powers, characters are limited in the amount of damage they can dish out, how many "lesser" opponents they can handle, and most critically of all their ability to recover from harm. nWoD actually has rules for starvation and other forms of deprivation, disease, blood loss and so on.

Forget the supernatural cruft grafted on top (which wouldn't be used here), the basic game is pretty damned gritty.

Anonymouswizard
2015-03-17, 08:34 AM
Ordinary umbrellas make great weapons, shields, and parachutes :P

(Can you use an umbrella to slow down falls, and how well does it work?)

We never actually checked if the umbrella part worked, because it would have revealed the swordblade.

If RP directives are out, then out of the four I suggested that leaves only GURPS and BRP, at which point you should decide if you want to use 1d% or 3d6.

Knaight
2015-03-17, 04:53 PM
Most of what I've suggested has already been suggested. With that said, I would also add Nemesis. It's free, it's a quick read (60 pages), and it actually manages to get in a surprisingly high amount of crunch. As for whether or not it's gritty, there is a table regarding how hard it is to shoot through various objects (so hiding behind a car door in a gunfight works somewhat more poorly than in other games). One of the things that explicitly was listed was human shields. It also has a built in psychological trauma system, and is calibrated towards action-horror, though it can be easily moved towards one or the other.

mikeejimbo
2015-03-18, 04:30 PM
To echo others, GURPS is good at doing modern, gritty, and no magic.

ddude987
2015-03-19, 03:44 PM
What I think the OP means by this is that it contains meta-resources (Willpower) and RP directives (Vice, Virtue) that convey mechanical benefits.

Presumably in this context a "Gritty" system lets the dice fall where they do on a relatively flat curve and makes no distinction between PCs and "Nameless NPC #481" in terms of how the rules treat them, and what their power levels are.

Basically this. Rules heavy so the DM doesn't have to completely make up rules from scratch. DnD does this pretty well, but we were looking for something that wasn't d20 modern.


Most of what I've suggested has already been suggested. With that said, I would also add Nemesis. It's free, it's a quick read (60 pages), and it actually manages to get in a surprisingly high amount of crunch. As for whether or not it's gritty, there is a table regarding how hard it is to shoot through various objects (so hiding behind a car door in a gunfight works somewhat more poorly than in other games). One of the things that explicitly was listed was human shields. It also has a built in psychological trauma system, and is calibrated towards action-horror, though it can be easily moved towards one or the other.

I'll check it out.

Also, thanks to the magic flo-chart I'll be checking out top secret as well. Additionally, I'm going to keep reading into WoD!:D

Jayabalard
2015-03-19, 03:59 PM
I'll echo others and suggest GURPS.


If you can track down a copy (not that hard actually), the old Top Secret S/I rules were pretty damned good :)odd coincidence... while I've lost almost all of the RP books from my youth, I recently found a box that had the top secret administrator's guide, equipment inventory and administrator's screen. (along with D&D Expert game adventure X1)

Elderand
2015-03-19, 04:07 PM
Ordinary umbrellas make great weapons, shields, and parachutes :P

(Can you use an umbrella to slow down falls, and how well does it work?)

No, you can't, umbrellas have neither the surface area needed to slow you down, nor the structural strength to resisting inverting themselves when falling.

aspekt
2015-03-19, 04:29 PM
No, you can't, umbrellas have neither the surface area needed to slow you down, nor the structural strength to resisting inverting themselves when falling.

Bedsheets from the roof of your one story house at age 6 don't work either.

Deadline
2015-03-19, 04:51 PM
Let's see, I'll suggest these two:

Spycraft (http://www.amazon.com/Spycraft-Roleplaying-Game-Version-2-0/dp/1594720371/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1426801639&sr=8-6&keywords=spycraft+d20)

Alternity (http://www.amazon.com/Alternity-Players-Handbook-Sci-Fi-Roleplaying/dp/0786907282/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426801884&sr=8-1&keywords=alternity) (just use humans, no psionics, and a modern tech level)

themaque
2015-03-19, 05:03 PM
I love Shadowrun 5th Edition. It's near future Sci-Fi with Magic, but both of those can be easily ignored. It's got a rules heavy system with a gritty feel. Combat can be deadly.

NoldorForce
2015-03-19, 07:05 PM
What are you or your friend looking to do with the system, anyway? There have been a number of suggestions above which are specialized towards one aim or another, and it would be useful to have some means by which your search can be narrowed.

goto124
2015-03-20, 01:02 AM
No, you can't, umbrellas have neither the surface area needed to slow you down, nor the structural strength to resisting inverting themselves when falling.

I meant in-game, although I'm not sure if the system supports umbrella falling.