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View Full Version : Pathfinder Thought experiment for multiclassing houserule



Thiyr
2015-03-17, 12:24 AM
Given that one of my longtime DMs is gonna start giving pathfinder a shot, I've been looking into stuff. And while there's plenty of stuff that I can work with changing for the better/worse, I'm finding that no matter how much I look at it, I'm not a huge fan of how much PF seems to disincentivise multiclassing. I know it was one of their design goals to, depending on perspective, either make it less appealing to become Captain Multiclass the Frontloaded, or make it actually viable to go straight 20 in a class. And that's a perfectly good goal. Just not one that lines up with how I like playing the game. So keep in mind that the following is with the intended design goal of making multiclassing more viable without making straight-classing 20 levels an obsolete choice again.

For any given non-spellcasting class ability which is based upon class level (explicitly or implied), instead scale it by character level. This does not apply to class abilities which scale by being gained multiple times as shown on the class's table (such as sneak attack).

Thus, being a 15th level character with a single level in barbarian gets you 30 rounds of rage (plus 4+con), but you are still only getting a +4 to str/con unless you take more. The size of a monk's ki pool would be based on character level, but they'd still need to have 16 actual monk levels to punch past DR/Adamantine. A summoner's Summon Monster ability would not grow any more potent, but would have an appropriately high duration for their character level

This seems to be a fairly simple to understand/implement change, but obviously my system knowledge for PF is limited. This seems like a nice way to give at least something back to multiclassing without shutting down single classed characters, but maybe this cracks open some previously closed box of cheese? Only thing I can think of is being able to take a level in monk to basically get full BAB on a flurry, but that's about it, and given that this is the realm of houserules, that's not a hard thing to give a specific "no" to. Anything else you can see being terribly flawed, or other opinions?

Spore
2015-03-17, 06:27 AM
Full HD is turning PF into a "dip fest". Half HD however seems absolutely reasonable. So a Barbarian 2/Rogue 10 counts as Barbarian 5 for purposes of rage powers and class features. Just not as prerequisites for feats.

I would even go so far as to advance spellcasting with 1/2 hit dice since dipping out of a full caster is almost always for flavor and not power. Also this would make a dual caster viable earlier and scale it normally (without the -3 CL the Mystic Theurge provides).

Sacrieur
2015-03-17, 09:20 AM
You may want to look up the way Path of War handles this for maneuvers. It lets you add half of your non-martial classes to your initiator level.

Psyren
2015-03-17, 11:02 AM
It makes dipping more attractive, but given that the main reasons to dip in 3.5 (PrC qualification and getting additional class skills - which are often used for the former ) are very muted in PF, I don't see it affecting a whole lot in the end.

Thiyr
2015-03-18, 01:01 AM
Full HD is turning PF into a "dip fest". Half HD however seems absolutely reasonable. So a Barbarian 2/Rogue 10 counts as Barbarian 5 for purposes of rage powers and class features. Just not as prerequisites for feats.

I would even go so far as to advance spellcasting with 1/2 hit dice since dipping out of a full caster is almost always for flavor and not power. Also this would make a dual caster viable earlier and scale it normally (without the -3 CL the Mystic Theurge provides).

Out of curiosity, is there a specific reason you'd say it would go full-on Dipperpalooza? My gut reaction on that idea was that it basically trades depth of abilities for breadth of abilities given that you wouldn't be getting more than, say, one or two rage powers (more than 4 levels and I don't know if I'd call it a dip anymore). You have more time during which you can rage, and if any rage powers scale based on level (are there any at that low of a level?), they'd be bumped up, but I get the feel that it would still end up more as a nice option more than dipping becoming a thing everybody does. Half HD feels like it might be a nice middle ground, but given the delay on your "main" class abilities/sacrificing your capstone still feels like you might be giving up a lot for the full HD, I'm not sure.

avr
2015-03-18, 06:59 AM
My first thought is that there are hundreds of abilities this might apply to (thousands including PrC's) and there are sure to be some for which it is wildly unbalanced, and many others which will remain worthless on a multiclass character.

I.e. If your players are good at optimising this will break the game, if they're fair at it it may break the game if they stumble across/into the right option, and if they're poor at it they'll probably be lured into trap options.

If they're good at optimising but will actively choose to avoid breaking the game you don't need this house rule.