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NeoSeraphi
2015-03-17, 08:05 PM
All types of creatures have been represented by the phb and two unearthed arcanas, but we still don't have a race that gets +2 Wis yet.

Half-Orcs, Dragonborn, and Mountain Dwarves get +2 Str.

Elves and Halflings get +2 Dex.

Dwarves get +2 Con.

Gnomes get +2 Int.

Tieflings and Half-Elves get +2 Cha.

0 love for Circle of Land druids in this game, I swear.

Naanomi
2015-03-17, 08:13 PM
Wisdom races have always been much rarer than other stats, I can't think of one 2e (forest gnome?), though Charisma was rare then too

pwykersotz
2015-03-17, 08:14 PM
Aasimar in the DMG pg 286 have +1 Wisdom (and +2 Charisma). It's not the +2 you're looking for, but it's something.

Chronos
2015-03-17, 08:17 PM
You could pull it off with human and take something that gives +1 Wis for your feat. But that doesn't really count.

Personally, I'd swap the Wis and Cha on Aasimar. We already have enough Cha races.

NeoSeraphi
2015-03-17, 08:18 PM
Aasimar in the DMG pg 286 have +1 Wisdom (and +2 Charisma). It's not the +2 you're looking for, but it's something.

I mean, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Humans, and Half-Elves all get +1 Wis. The +2 Wis (for fairness and equal representation among the races) is what I'm looking for.

Technically speaking, a variant human can get +1 Wis and Resilient for +2 Wis at level 1, but that's a variant option and it's not the +2 because the race is inherently perceptive and empathetic that we'd be looking for.

It's just odd that races get stronger senses (Darkvision, Scent, Low Light vision) and Perception proficiency, but they can't have bonuses to their Wisdom. If acute senses aren't the main factor in determining how high your Wisdom is compared to other races, then what is?

ClockShock
2015-03-17, 08:22 PM
If acute senses aren't the main factor in determining how high your Wisdom is compared to other races, then what is?

Wise-ness?

Senses are based on wisdom, not the other way round.

Kd7sov
2015-03-17, 09:03 PM
Wise-ness?

Senses are based on wisdom, not the other way round.

The problem there - or at least the problem with phrasing it in that way - is twofold. First, what "wisdom" actually means is sufficiently hard to pin down that the task has defied philosophers for ages. And second, in D&D the WIS stat essentially is senses.

Take a look at the list of WIS-based skills. In 5e, that's Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Perception, and Survival. Looking further at the descriptions in the PHB, three of them - Insight, Perception, and Survival - appear to deal specifically with how well you notice what's around you. There are also elements of that in Animal Handling, though not the whole of the skill.

Totema
2015-03-17, 09:10 PM
Aasimar in the DMG pg 286 have +1 Wisdom (and +2 Charisma). It's not the +2 you're looking for, but it's something.

Since aasimar are not yet an officially recognized race (they're really only used as an "example" of a homebrew race) my version of them has +2 Wis and +1 Cha instead. Although I can totally foresee Wizards making another adventure module that features them entirely as they're printed in the DMG, which kinda sinks my boat.

eastmabl
2015-03-17, 11:10 PM
Much like Dexterity being the most powerful physical stat (generally speaking), Wisdom is the most powerful mental stat (generally speaking). You get five skills that the ability affects, include the all important Perception and Insight checks. Additionally, of all of the mental saving throws, Wisdom saving throws tend show up the most frequently.

Layer on top of this the classes which use Wisdom as a primary attribute - clerics and druids. Of all the classes which have been considered the most overpowered. While 5e designers did a good job at reigning in some of the excess power of these classes found in previous editions, the two classes remain fairly powerful.

However, if you make a race which makes the clerics/druids better than the average bear when it comes to these classes, you may pump them up to the point where you make them the best classes in the game again. The game designers may be trying to outthink the meta on this point.

(Some more +1 Wis races/subraces might be nice though).

TrollCapAmerica
2015-03-18, 01:02 AM
I'm holding out hope for Vanara from PF. Gimme my Monkey cult back dang nabbit.

rollingForInit
2015-03-18, 02:13 AM
Much like Dexterity being the most powerful physical stat (generally speaking), Wisdom is the most powerful mental stat (generally speaking). You get five skills that the ability affects, include the all important Perception and Insight checks. Additionally, of all of the mental saving throws, Wisdom saving throws tend show up the most frequently.

Layer on top of this the classes which use Wisdom as a primary attribute - clerics and druids. Of all the classes which have been considered the most overpowered. While 5e designers did a good job at reigning in some of the excess power of these classes found in previous editions, the two classes remain fairly powerful.

However, if you make a race which makes the clerics/druids better than the average bear when it comes to these classes, you may pump them up to the point where you make them the best classes in the game again. The game designers may be trying to outthink the meta on this point.

(Some more +1 Wis races/subraces might be nice though).

The +1/+2 difference isn't significant enough that it'll unbalance a class. Wisdom still caps at 20, and you'll get there as quickly anyway. Lacking a +2 Wisdom race mostly means that we're lacking a thematic Wisdom-based race, and that people who want Wisdom builds are locked in very more specific ability score distribution. That is, we are lacking variety.

Dexterity is, as you say, a powerful stat. Yet we have several races that get a +2 modifier to it.

Gnomes2169
2015-03-18, 02:33 AM
Hmmm... maybe homebrew the Xeph or a Githyanki? Both of them seem like prime candidates for a +2 wis.

Strill
2015-03-18, 02:36 AM
Since aasimar are not yet an officially recognized race (they're really only used as an "example" of a homebrew race) my version of them has +2 Wis and +1 Cha instead. Although I can totally foresee Wizards making another adventure module that features them entirely as they're printed in the DMG, which kinda sinks my boat.

I think they should just give +1 WIS, +1 CHA, and +1 to your choice of WIS or CHA. This satisfies both Aasimar paladins and Aasimar clerics.

drrockso20
2015-03-18, 05:04 AM
if for now we limit any possible new races for consisderation to ones that are in the current Monster Manual(since they'd probably have priority over most other D&D races, unless we get another setting specific mini-supplement like the Eberron one), I can't really think of any races likely to get a playable version that would be Wisdom dominant(except maybe Githzerai, but they seem just as likely to be Dexterity dominant), unless they either add in Monstrous Races with Level Adjustment/Racial Classes, or do heavily toned down versions of some of the more powerful monsters for playable versions, in which case I could see something like a Sphinx or Mind-Flayer be Wisdom dominant(although if we go beyond Monster Manual 1 monsters and some of the notable Setting Specific races not in the game already, I think one or two of the 4e PHB2 & PHB3 races would qualify as Wisdom dominant)

Balyano
2015-03-18, 05:09 AM
Maybe homebrew the Killoren back in as a +2 Wis race? Sure they didn't have a Wis bonus in 3.5, but they were kind of cool and I think they would fit as one.

The 4e Deva is another that fits for +2 Wis and has some nice fluff to it, and doesnt have the strong nature connection that the Killoren comes with.

In fact homebrew both in.

drrockso20
2015-03-18, 05:34 AM
Maybe homebrew the Killoren back in as a +2 Wis race? Sure they didn't have a Wis bonus in 3.5, but they were kind of cool and I think they would fit as one.

The 4e Deva is another that fits for +2 Wis and has some nice fluff to it, and doesnt have the strong nature connection that the Killoren comes with.

In fact homebrew both in.

I forget who are the Killoren?

Balyano
2015-03-18, 05:52 AM
They were a +0 LA fey race from 3.5. They didn't get any ability modifiers and couldn't use cold iron. They were nature focused and could enter one of three states. Aspect of the Ancients, Aspect of the Destroyer, Aspect of the Hunter. They were in Races of the Wild.

Description

Killoren resemble half-elves, and males and females alike average about 5-1/2 feet in height. They mature quickly, being full-grown by the age of 10, and live very long lives, hardly changing at all in appearance for their first century. Killoren have green or tan skin the texture of a soft, young leaf, and their limbs are unusually long and slender when compared with those of the humanoid races. An individual killoren's hair and eye color depends on which aspect of nature the killoren is currently manifesting.
Combat
Racial Traits
Fey: Killoren are of the fey type and are therefore not affected by spells such as charm person and hold person. Unlike other fey, killoren gain Hit Dice only by acquiring levels in a character class.
A killoren's base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Killoren can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Immunity to magic sleep effects and a +2 racial bonus on saves against enchantment spells or effects.
Racial Skills: Killoren have a +2 racial bonus on Handle Animal and Survival checks.
Cold Iron Anathema (Su): Killoren have a difficult time wielding weapons made of cold iron. Killoren take a —2 penalty on any attack roll they make with a cold iron weapon or a weapon made only partially out of cold iron, such as a cold iron spear or a bow firing cold iron arrows.
Manifest Nature's Might (Su): Killoren are forever bound to the raw forces of nature itself, manifesting this bond even in their physical form. A killoren can only manifest one aspect of nature's might at a time. Each morning as the sun rises, a killoren spends 10 minutes in quiet meditation, filling her spirit with the aspect of nature that is most needed for her current tasks. Once a killoren chooses an aspect, she manifests that aspect until the next morning, when she chooses again which aspect to manifest. Many killoren favor one aspect over the others and rarely choose to manifest one of the other two aspects.

Aspect of the Ancient: While manifesting the aspect of the ancient, a killoren embodies the deep and ancient secrets of nature itself. With this bond to nature's secret lore, a killoren gains a racial bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks equal to her Hit Dice and gains an additional +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment effects. This bonus stacks with the killoren's normal racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment effects. While a killoren manifests the aspect of the ancient, her hair turns white and her eyes turn to the color of a blue summer sky.

Aspect of the Destroyer: Many races revere nature for its power to destroy, but none more so than a killoren manifesting the aspect of the destroyer. Once per hour (up to a maximum number of times per day equal to the character's Charisma bonus, minimum 1), a killoren manifesting the aspect of the destroyer can make a special smite attack that deals extra damage to the foes of nature. When making this smite attack, a killoren adds her Charisma bonus to her attack roll and deals an extra 1 point of damage per Hit Die. This smite attack works only against aberrations, constructs, humanoids, oozes, outsiders, and undead. If a killoren accidentally smites a creature that is not one of the creature types listed above, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that hour and counts against the total uses per day. While a killoren manifests the aspect of the destroyer, her hair and eyes turn a deep, lusterless black; many find the gaze of a killoren destroyer's coal-black eyes to be unnerving.

Aspect of the Hunter: The hunt affects nearly every aspect of nature and claims a place of great prominence and importance in the cycle of life. A killoren manifesting the aspect of the hunt is bound to nature's ancient tradition of the hunt, and her senses sharpen to an amazing degree. While manifesting the aspect of the hunt, a killoren gains a +2 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks, and a +2 racial bonus on initiative checks. While a killoren manifests the aspect of the hunter, her hair and eyes turn a deep forest green, and her skin tone becomes a deeper brown than when manifesting one of the other aspects.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Auran, Elven, Gnome, Ignan, Terran.
Favored Class: Druid.

Naanomi
2015-03-18, 08:59 AM
We have an example of a subrace getting +2 to a stat (mountain dwarf), maybe a +2 Wisdom subrace is possible?

Shining Wrath
2015-03-18, 09:12 AM
If they brought back adjustments for aging, that would be a natural way to give some pluses to Wisdom - trade Wisdom for physical skills.

Aside from that, homebrew races until WotC gives us a canonical +2 WIS. My homebrew Dragonborn come in chromatic and metallic flavors, depending on whether it was Tiamat or Bahamut that mucked about with humans to produce the dragonborn - and Bahamut had different goals than Tiamat, and thus my metallic ancestry dragonborn get +2 CON, +1 WIS.

Demonic Spoon
2015-03-18, 09:57 AM
If they brought back adjustments for aging, that would be a natural way to give some pluses to Wisdom - trade Wisdom for physical skills.


So my eyesight gets better (perception bonus) as I age? What?

Aging adjustments were always terrible and janky.

Vogonjeltz
2015-03-23, 06:57 AM
The problem there - or at least the problem with phrasing it in that way - is twofold. First, what "wisdom" actually means is sufficiently hard to pin down that the task has defied philosophers for ages. And second, in D&D the WIS stat essentially is senses.

Take a look at the list of WIS-based skills. In 5e, that's Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Perception, and Survival. Looking further at the descriptions in the PHB, three of them - Insight, Perception, and Survival - appear to deal specifically with how well you notice what's around you. There are also elements of that in Animal Handling, though not the whole of the skill.

Historical veracity of that claim aside, the PHB has a definition of how attuned you are with the world around you and perceptiveness and intuition.

Oh and Elves are all proficient in Wisdom (Perception) checks. So presumably that's your race that's super in tune with it's surroundings. Humans are also capable of having +2 Wisdom and the Observant feat, so they'd be the other highly perceptive/intuitive capable race.

ZenBear
2015-03-23, 01:21 PM
what "wisdom" actually means is sufficiently hard to pin down that the task has defied philosophers for ages.
To quote Tim Lanning of the Drunks and Dragons Podcast:

"Knowledge is knowing that Frankenstein is the doctor.
Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein is the monster."