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View Full Version : What are some of the most broken things Tier 1 Classes can do?



Man on Fire
2015-03-17, 10:22 PM
This is out of sheer curiosity - people talk all the time about how Tier 1 classes like Wizard, Psion, Cleric or Druid can break the game. But I was wondering what are the most broken things they can do? The most overpowered combos or just spells, RAW abuse and whatever else comes to mind. I want to see what makes them so memetically overpowered. What is the most insane stuff they are capable off? How can they reshape entire setting and make make DM cry?

Troacctid
2015-03-17, 10:28 PM
"I wish for [insert thing here] to happen." Aaaand it happens.

NeoPhoenix0
2015-03-17, 10:32 PM
does it count if i only use one level of wizard to abuse his spellbook and then go straight sorcerer?

I'm most familiar with optimizing with things that start below tier one.

eggynack
2015-03-17, 10:38 PM
Well, there's shapechange, which lets you break the universe in half with infinite wishes and other ridiculousness, but that's just a 9th level thing. For druids, the most broken stuff includes, but is not limited to, greenbound summoning for first level wall of thorns, aberration wild shape for nilshai form granting an extra standard action every turn along with a bunch of other random greatness, fey ring calling a siabrie for early vicarious access to shapechange, though without the infinite wishes thing, animate with the spirit for a movanic deva, granting a lot of early and powerful spells, planar shepherd using dal quor for crazy action economy breaking, oread summoning for early earthquakes, just flat out the spell control winds, venomfire on a fleshraker companion, dire tortoise form for even more action economy breaking, and an acorn of far travel for a bunch of arbitrary silliness.

AmberVael
2015-03-17, 10:50 PM
Lets just go with some straight up, normal uses of normal spells. 'cause frankly, that's what really makes them Tier 1. You don't need more than that, and that's really what most people talk about and think of.

Dominate. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm)
Its mind-affecting which has its drawbacks, but the effect is crazy. In combat it is a very efficient mode of attack if you can get it to work- it not only degrades the action economy of your enemies, it increases your own (by taking some of their actions and making them your actions). Outside of combat it can let you manage all kinds of things- need to frame someone? Dominate them and make them do it. Need to learn what someone did or some fact that they have? Dominate them and make them tell you. Need to take someone alive and keep them captive? Dominate makes it safe and easy, 'cause they'll just follow along with everything you tell them. And so on.

Raise Dead. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm)
You know how being dead can be problematic? How would you like to try not being dead? Its a great alternative.

Wall of Stone. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfStone.htm)
Instant castles, just add spell slots. Also, useful in combat.

Teleport. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm)
"The ring must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came. One of you must do this."
"I GOT THIS." *teleport, teleports back* "Okay done! Middle Earth is saved, what next?"

Hypercognition. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hypercognition.htm)
You just know something. There's no real defense and little chance of failure. There's no real limitations on what you can use it for either- it can be anything from "So who actually murdered the king?" to "Where is the McGuffin?"

NeoPhoenix0
2015-03-17, 11:00 PM
Don't forget Gate

use it to travel the planes, make contracts with powerful forces, summon emergency aid, leave open in the middle of a town or dungeon waiting for something to wander through.

Also i really don't want say what ice assassin can do. (partially cause i never bothered to make myself very familiar with it). so go look it up for yourself or wait for someone else to say it.

(Un)Inspired
2015-03-17, 11:07 PM
How about using nested persisted timestops, shape changing-SLA Wish based infinite money, create Demi plane, and the origin of species epic spell to create an entire plane with multiple planets populated with entire ecosystems in 5 seconds?

Even epic spells are achievable pretty easily pre-epic.

Really though, how could you define something as being the MOST broken. How can you compare something like infinite wishes to infinite actions?

Karl Aegis
2015-03-17, 11:09 PM
Multiple ways to become outright immune to everything.

The ability to solve any problem given enough time.

Being able to do anything you could possibly want to do better than anyone who specializes in doing that thing.

NeoPhoenix0
2015-03-17, 11:13 PM
Really though, how could you define something as being the MOST broken. How can you compare something like infinite wishes to infinite actions?

well, there is the measuring stick we use for pun-pun and the omniscifer, how fast they reach nigh-omnipotence and nigh-omniscience.

FocusWolf413
2015-03-17, 11:18 PM
How about using nested persisted timestops, shape changing-SLA Wish based infinite money, create Demi plane, and the origin of species epic spell to create an entire plane with multiple planets populated with entire ecosystems in 5 seconds?

Even epic spells are achievable pretty easily pre-epic.

Really though, how could you define something as being the MOST broken. How can you compare something like infinite wishes to infinite actions?

*pushes up glasses and snorts*
Well, actually, they aren't as powerful as you claim. It takes SIX seconds, not five, you uncultured scum.

(Lol jk you're great)

Psyren
2015-03-17, 11:28 PM
*gestures vaguely towards conjuration and transmutation schools*

(Un)Inspired
2015-03-17, 11:29 PM
*pushes up glasses and snorts*
Well, actually, they aren't as powerful as you claim. It takes SIX seconds, not five, you uncultured scum.

(Lol jk you're great)

You can do some stuff with your move action before you spend your standard to cast the first persisted timestop so it's probably even less than 5 seconds but yeah I did kinda get that wrong.

Idk why I always assume rounds to be five seconds instead of six.

NeoPhoenix0
2015-03-17, 11:41 PM
because of the duration of timestop being kinda irregular, the rules aren't clear on how persistant timestop works. being a wizard however, you should still be able to get plenty of god-like acts done with some regular nested timestops.

oh, don't forget your craft contingent spells so you don't die, i forget what spells you need, it's been months since i looked at it.

A_S
2015-03-17, 11:58 PM
Mostly things that have been mentioned, at least in part, but the OP asked for combos, so:

Foresight + Celerity + Greater Arcane Fusion + Sanctum Spell (feat): Never be flat-footed (so you can always act, even if you get surprised) and take an arbitrarily large number of standard actions as an immediate action (preempting the actions of anybody who surprised you).
Shapechange (Zodar) + Wish (Su): Cast Wish without paying any of the associated costs. Feel free to wish for a Candle of Invocation (see Gate + Wish).
Gate + (somebody else's) Wish: Compel an Outsider of some variety who can cast Wish to do so on your behalf. Note that doing so typically takes a short enough time that it won't invoke the "ask your DM about rewards" clause for longer service.
Genesis + Astral Projection: Leave your body on a limited-access demiplane of your own creation. Interact with the world via a new copy of your physical body. If anything happens to it, you don't die, you just pop back to your demiplane.
Geas + Uncanny Forethought (feat): Command a creature to obey all your commands for 1 day/level with no save (feel free to recast as needed), as a full-round action.
Contingency + Time Stop + Feather Fall: Take 1d4+1 rounds worth of actions as an immediate action, whenever you need to (just key your Contingency to Feather Fall).
Gate + (somebody else's) Gate + ...etc.: Gate in a creature (such as a Solar) which is itself capable of casting Gate. Use this recursion to summon an arbitrarily large army of angels, each of whom casts as a 17th level Cleric (among its other abilities).
Consumptive Field + Greater Consumptive Field + Holy Word (or appropriately aligned equivalent): Pump your caster level arbitrarily high, then use that to kill all creatures of a certain alignment within a 40 foot radius, no save.
Consumptive Field + Greater Consumptive Field + Fimbulwinter: Same caster level trick as above. Turn your entire campaign world into Hoth for 4d12 weeks (recast as needed).
Tier 2 casters can do all of these things, too. The advantage of Tier 1's is that they can get up in the morning, decide which of these broken things they want to be able to do that day, and memorize their spells accordingly. Tier 2's have to dedicate character resources to doing so, which are hard to go back and change later.

Forrestfire
2015-03-18, 12:18 AM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384172-3-x-TO-complete) is probably relevant. Compiled list of the fastest ways to get a componentless wish-powered TO takeoff.

Turning into a living planet is also something they can do (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16069634&postcount=33).

(Un)Inspired
2015-03-18, 12:43 AM
well, there is the measuring stick we use for pun-pun and the omniscifer, how fast they reach nigh-omnipotence and nigh-omniscience.

Hypothetically, a game could exist in which those things weren't considered broken. Perhaps there a table where everyone is a pun pun and they exist in a state if infinite stalemate- merely playing with the universe cooperatively to keep from growing bored.

At this point it has lost it's position as "most broken thing" as it's no longer broken.

Bucky
2015-03-18, 02:17 AM
Pun-pun is the "most broken thing" because it copies everyone else's broken things.

NeoPhoenix0
2015-03-18, 02:23 AM
Hypothetically, a game could exist in which those things weren't considered broken. Perhaps there a table where everyone is a pun pun and they exist in a state if infinite stalemate- merely playing with the universe cooperatively to keep from growing bored.

At this point it has lost it's position as "most broken thing" as it's no longer broken.

so talking at a level where everything is optimized to pun-pun levels, the stalemate would only exist if the first one to get there let the others get there, hence the measuring stick. since any character capable of reaching that point would have the ability and advanced knowledge to stop any threat before it became a threat. this is why becoming all knowing and all powerful at level 4 is different than becoming all knowing and all powerful at level 5, also being within character wealth such.

Eldan
2015-03-18, 05:06 AM
Astral Projectoin is pretty bad in general. It is not only bad because it gives you an extra life, Mario-style, but also because it just copies all magical items you happen to carry. So, got some valuable scrolls that you need to use, but don't want to use up? Just astral project, use the astral copies, no money spent.

Shapechange/summon/planar binding, etc: need a power you don't have? Just open the monster manual. Something in there will have that power and one spell later, so can you!

Platymus Pus
2015-03-18, 05:51 AM
Killing several million NPC's and dealing over a billion dmg in a round

Deox
2015-03-18, 06:27 AM
The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?121334-The-Dream-of-Metal) stands out to me as pretty amazing.

avr
2015-03-18, 06:45 AM
Fell drain sonic snap; no-save no-attack level drain from a level one slot.

You may have heard of the Tippyverse, founded on the abuse of magical traps of create food and water, or cure disease or whatever.

Fabricate, wall of iron, wall of salt; how would you like nigh-infinite wealth to buy magic items with?

Simulacrum (or ice assassin); have your enemies as servants without even having to defeat them. Also, depending on interpretations, one of the ways to infinite wishes.

atemu1234
2015-03-18, 07:04 AM
Killing several million NPC's and dealing over a billion dmg in a round

Locate City Bomb?

I see your Locate City Bomb and raise you one Fell Drain Locate City, followed by using an item of Unlimited Use Control Undead to take control of all of the Wights therein produced, then siccing them on the rest.

Eldariel
2015-03-18, 07:06 AM
If talking about lower level things, Lesser Planar Binding (level 5 spell/ECL 9 without cheese) can bind a Nightmare and Nightmares can use Astral Projection and Etherealness at will. Have fun.

Simulacrums also don't lose any SLAs; any number of uses for that. And of course, Assume Supernatural Ability/Metamorphic Transfer + Polymorph/Metamorphosis (or the appropriate Wildshape) can get you almost any spell in the game as a Su-ability (Nightmares & Beholders are just the tip of the iceberg for Su'd spells). Feel free to peruse the rest of this thread for what manners of nonsense that enables. You can be an LA +0 Outsider to gain access to those forms through Polymorph and even your HD is buffable (Inspire Greatness, Awaken or probably Magic Jaring a body).

Oh, and through repeated castings the normal Magic Jar can be used to gain a new body permanently. True Mind Switch as well, of course. And there's the well-known permanent Polymorph Any Object by recasting it. But that's ECL15 so now that impressive anymore (unless you buy scrolls/castings).

(Un)Inspired
2015-03-18, 09:34 AM
so talking at a level where everything is optimized to pun-pun levels, the stalemate would only exist if the first one to get there let the others get there, hence the measuring stick. since any character capable of reaching that point would have the ability and advanced knowledge to stop any threat before it became a threat. this is why becoming all knowing and all powerful at level 4 is different than becoming all knowing and all powerful at level 5, also being within character wealth such.

Certainly the two are different but if they are no breaking the game for that table then surely they cannot be the "most broken things". In fact if they're not breaking anything (at that table) at all then I would venture to say that in certain circumstances they are not broken at all.

Amphetryon
2015-03-18, 09:43 AM
Fimbulwinter deserves at least a bit of a nod, given its area and duration. Add metamagic, and go.

atemu1234
2015-03-18, 09:45 AM
Fimbulwinter deserves at least a bit of a nod, given its area and duration. Add metamagic, and go.

Locate City Bomb is still far, far more fun.

WeaselGuy
2015-03-18, 10:07 AM
I'm a fan of making the warrior obsolete by volunteering to be "the healer" in a group. Start out as a Human Cleric with the Planning and War domains, snag the Extend Spell metamagic feat from the Planning domain, and the Persistent Spell metamagic feat from level 1 and Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell from being a Human. At level 3 take Extra Turning. For the first 5-6 levels you can persist Vigor spells for the party, while being a competent "backup fighter". Take Power Attack at level 6 "so I can help kill stuff better guys!". From level 7 on, Persist Divine Power and Righteous Might every day. You need 14 turn attempts, so buy a Nightstick and max get your Charisma to at least 16, along with getting your Wisdom to 19 for 9th level spells. I recommend Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Knock-Down for your level 9, 12 and 15 feats, and use a Guisarme. Now you wade into combat as a Large sized, Full-Plate clad divine warrior, with a reach of 15 feet, full BAB, and plenty of hit points. You Power Attack your opponent, deal at least 10 damage to him, and provoke a trip attempt. If the attempt succeeds (which it should, due to your bonus strength and the guisarme) you get to attack again thanks to Improved Trip. When the tripped person tries to stand up, they provoke an attack of opportunity, during which you hit them for at least 10 damage, knock them down, and attack them again thanks to improved trip. All of this awesome melee combat utility, and you're still a full caster. At level 13, with your 7th level spell, you Persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and become even more awesome.

Avoiding the Wall of Text above:

Be a Human Cleric with War and Planning Domains.
Take Persistent Spell and Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell for your level 1 feats.
Take Extra Turning at level 3, Power Attack at level 6, Combat Expertise at level 9, Improved Trip at 12 and Knock-Down at level 15. Combat Reflexes at 18 would give you more Attacks of Opportunity.
Persist Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful to become a Large Angelic Holy Warrior of Awesomeness.
Revel in the power of full Divine Casting while still laying waste to the evildoers around you, while the Paladin and Fighter taper off right as you become amazing.

Snowbluff
2015-03-18, 10:20 AM
Fimbulwinter deserves at least a bit of a nod, given its area and duration. Add metamagic, and go.
Mhm.

You all are forgetting about the humble illusion. From level 1, you have one of the most inventive spells, Silent Image. It only gets better from there. The higher level spells give more effects that let you make more complex illusions.

You have the Shadow spells that can imitate other spells on the fly (albeit less effectively), the aforementioned Simulacrum (which makes a critter of your HD to do your work for you), and Ice Assassin (Makes a complete creature that hunts down it's real counterpart and kills it).

Eldan
2015-03-18, 10:35 AM
Locate City Bomb is still far, far more fun.

But there are several reasons why it is at least debated. It might not work.

Man on Fire
2015-03-18, 01:57 PM
The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?121334-The-Dream-of-Metal) stands out to me as pretty amazing.

This one killed me, this is material worth at least two campaings right there, all from one evil caster.

Chronos
2015-03-18, 02:09 PM
Meh, the Dream of Metal just doesn't click for me. You start by sleeping a long time to have a really elaborate dream about empires rising and falling, then completely unrelated to that you become a lich, and then you defeat the point of being a lich by hiding away your phylactery so thoroughly that if you ever need to use it, you end up completely cut off from reality.

(Un)Inspired
2015-03-18, 02:18 PM
Meh, the Dream of Metal just doesn't click for me. You start by sleeping a long time to have a really elaborate dream about empires rising and falling, then completely unrelated to that you become a lich, and then you defeat the point of being a lich by hiding away your phylactery so thoroughly that if you ever need to use it, you end up completely cut off from reality.

I'm with you. I think the metal dream would be really cool if you became a lich first, then hid your phylactery with the forced dreaming warforged in the water clock. That way, if any crummy adventurers come break you clock to get to you phylactery time resets.

Psyren
2015-03-18, 02:49 PM
I also question whether simply waking up from a dream is truly "killing an entire universe." If it was all a dream and thus never happened, what exactly did you "kill?" It would be like saying a paladin should fall every time he wakes up because he destroyed whatever he was dreaming about.

Telonius
2015-03-18, 03:08 PM
More broken things a Tier 1 can do:

Gain +Yes to your skill checks (Guidance of the Avatar).
Implant or remove memories in a target. (Modify Memory).
Completely rewrite a target's personality (Mindrape, and its "Good" counterpart, Sanctify the Wicked)

AvatarVecna
2015-03-18, 07:52 PM
Infinite money, infinite feats, infinite XP, infinite spells. All are within reach of a mage willing to go the distance and exploit the rules, if they work hard enough. Throw in some metamagic cheese, and you get some ridiculous combos. Let's assume a Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5 with roughly all the money/feats/spells/XP they could ever want decides to go on a killing spree. They could use any of these tricks to decimate the world's population:

Round 1
-Cast "Elemental Body", with "Arcane Thesis (Elemental Body)" in effect; select the fire elemental. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Extend Spell (-1), Fiery Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Irresistible Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 7th.

-Cast "Greater Consumptive Field", with "Reserves of Strength" and "Arcane Thesis (Greater Consumptive Field)" in effect. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deceptive Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Sculpt Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Transdimensional Spell (-1), Widen Spell (+1), Irresistible Spell (+2), Quicken Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 7th.

Elemental Body gives you immunity to stunning and the burn ability, which makes anybody you hit in melee (or anybody hitting you in melee) have to make a Ref save to avoid taking damage. Irresistible Spell makes this save impossible/virtually impossible, depending on whether you use errata or not. In any case, that's just to make sure that the swarms die. Speaking of...

Round 2
-Cast "Summon Swarm" with "Arcane Thesis (Summon Swarm)" in effect; select the bat swarm. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deceptive Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Repeat Spell (+1), Twin Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 2nd.

-Cast "Summon Swarm", with "Arcane Thesis (Summon Swarm)" in effect; select the bat swarm. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deceptive Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Repeat Spell (+1), Quicken Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 2nd.

These two castings of "Summon Swarm" result in a total of 8 swarms being summoned right on top of you. This triggers the burn ability you received from Elemental Body (Fire); they either automatically or eventually fail the save, taking (1d6+1 fire damage)/round. This averages around 4.5 damage per round; a single round of damage puts the average bat swarm at 8 hp, triggering Greater Consumptive Field (which they also either automatically or eventually fail the save against, dying). Each dead swarm contains 5000 bats; each dead bat increases your caster level by one, to a maximum of infinite (since Reserves of Strength removed the restriction). Thus, once all 8 swarms are dead (probably by the start of round 4), your caster level is effectively 40020.

Round 4
-Cast "Frostfell", with "Arcane Thesis (Frostfell)" in effect. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Extend Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Repeat Spell (+1), Widen Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2).

-Cast "Fimbulwinter", with "Arcane Thesis (Fimbulwinter)" in effect. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Energy Substitution (Cold) (-2), Invisible Spell (-2), Lord of the Uttercold (-2), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Flash Frost Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Empower Spell (+0), Fell Drain (+0), Maximize Spell (+1), Repeat Spell (+1), Widen Spell (+1), Quicken Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2). Final Spell Level: 8th.

Frostfell lets you set the climate, while Fimbulwinter lets you take advantage of it. The casting of "Fimbulwinter" lets you create 4 winter storms; the center of each storm must be within 80042 miles, and has a radius of 80042 miles (note: such a storm with a radius of roughly 12500 miles would be sufficient to cover the IRL planet Earth). Furthermore, each storm deals 8 points of cold damage and 8 points of negative energy damage to everyone in the area, as well as dealing them a negative level; both effects happen every 6 seconds without allowing SR or a saving throw to protect them. Each storm lasts 4d12+96 weeks (100-144 weeks), meaning there's gonna be a lot of deaths unless everybody on the planet is immune to cold damage, negative energy damage, and negative levels.

This ECL 20, high tier character just spent 6 spells (levels 9, 8, 7, 7, 2, and 2) to blanket the entire world in deathly ice and snow for 2-3 years.

Round 1Round 1
-Cast "Elemental Body", with "Arcane Thesis (Elemental Body)" in effect; select the fire elemental. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Extend Spell (-1), Fiery Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Irresistible Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 7th.

-Cast "Greater Consumptive Field", with "Reserves of Strength" and "Arcane Thesis (Greater Consumptive Field)" in effect. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deceptive Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Sculpt Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Transdimensional Spell (-1), Widen Spell (+1), Irresistible Spell (+2), Quicken Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 7th.

Elemental Body gives you immunity to stunning and the burn ability, which makes anybody you hit in melee (or anybody hitting you in melee) have to make a Ref save to avoid taking damage. Irresistible Spell makes this save impossible/virtually impossible, depending on whether you use errata or not. In any case, that's just to make sure that the swarms die. Speaking of...

Round 2
-Cast "Summon Swarm" with "Arcane Thesis (Summon Swarm)" in effect; select the bat swarm. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deceptive Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Repeat Spell (+1), Twin Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 2nd.

-Cast "Summon Swarm", with "Arcane Thesis (Summon Swarm)" in effect; select the bat swarm. Alter the spell with the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deceptive Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Extend Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Repeat Spell (+1), Quicken Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2), Persistent Spell (+4). Final Spell Level: 2nd.

These two castings of "Summon Swarm" result in a total of 8 swarms being summoned right on top of you. This triggers the burn ability you received from Elemental Body (Fire); they either automatically or eventually fail the save, taking (1d6+1 fire damage)/round. This averages around 4.5 damage per round; a single round of damage puts the average bat swarm at 8 hp, triggering Greater Consumptive Field (which they also either automatically or eventually fail the save against, dying). Each dead swarm contains 5000 bats; each dead bat increases your caster level by one, to a maximum of infinite (since Reserves of Strength removed the restriction). Thus, once all 8 swarms are dead (probably by the start of round 4), your caster level is effectively 40020.

Round 4
-Cast "Disintegrate", with "Reserves of Strength" and "Arcane Thesis (Disintegrate)" in effect. Alter the spell using the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deafening Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Transdimensional Spell (-1), Empower Spell (+0), Fell Drain (+0), Split Ray (+0), Chain Spell (+1), Fell Animate (+1), Guided Spell (+1), Maximize Spell (+1), Repeat Spell (+1), Twin Spell (+2). Final Spell Level: 6th.

-Cast "Disintegrate", with "Reserves of Strength" and "Arcane Thesis (Disintegrate)" in effect. Alter the spell using the following metamagic feats: Invisible Spell (-2), Sanctum Spell (-2), Deafening Spell (-1), Enlarge Spell (-1), Silent Spell (-1), Still Spell (-1), Transdimensional Spell (-1), Empower Spell (+0), Fell Drain (+0), Split Ray (+0), Chain Spell (+1), Fell Animate (+1), Guided Spell (+1), Maximize Spell (+1), Repeat Spell (+1), Quicken Spell (+2), Twin Spell (+2). Final Spell Level: 6th.

These castings of Disintegrate result in a total of 336 disintegration rays flying around. Each ray targets touch AC, ignores up to 9/10 cover/concealment, and continues trying to hit for up to 13340 rounds; once they eventually hit, each ray deals 20010d6+240126, for an average of 310161 (thanks, Reserves of Strength!). Each target also gets a negative level and, if slain, rises as a zombie under your control. Your HD controlled maximum is 80042, meaning that even if every ray takes out a target, said target will be under your control (unless the group as a whole had an average number of HD higher than 238, of course). Add more castings of this Super-Disintegrate as you wish; if the targets aren't resistant/immune to acid damage, Persistent "Melf's Acid Arrow" can make a good substitute.

I'll list other tricks if I decide it's worth the time, but for now, I'll just leave this here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6571.0).

Snowbluff
2015-03-18, 08:04 PM
You know, I bet that can be cheesed further with Arcane Archer, Arrow Split Splitting, and Wings of Flurry for a smaller area of damage. How does ~3x that sound?

With chicken infested, you could get a lot more dead critters in a turn, since making one is a free action with quickdraw.

ben-zayb
2015-03-18, 08:59 PM
I thought Incantatrix capstone can't reduce below +1.

Also, you can't kill a Summon IIRC. Just abuse them for Dark Speech shenanigans.

AvatarVecna
2015-03-18, 10:01 PM
I thought Incantatrix capstone can't reduce below +1.

Also, you can't kill a Summon IIRC. Just abuse them for Dark Speech shenanigans.

My bad about that. That said, with essentially infinite feats, XP, spells, attributes, and money, I'm sure this problem can be solved. The point is that, whether through the use of tons of purchased "Rods of Metamagic", tons of Arcane Thesis feats, tons of Sudden Metamagic feats, and tons of other metamagic reduction feats, this can still be easily accomplished by said Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5. Arcane Thesis, for instance, reduces all metamagic feats applied by 1, but not below the spell's original level. Incantatrix reduces it to at least +1, and there's other methods that can be combined with those to make this happen.

I'm not aware that there's any rule saying you can't kill summoned creatures, or that you can't kill your own summoned creatures. That said, I'm sure that the W5/I10/A5 could find a way to produce any necessary bat swarm at least once a day to trigger that persistent Greater Consumptive Field. Hell, maybe that's why the Batman (Wizard) lives in a cave full of bats--so that he has access to naturally occurring swarms to kill.