Range: Personal - Swarms and you

[thecrimsondawn]

So the rule for any swarm is that it cant be affected by a spell or attack that targets any number of creatures. However range personal sounds to me like its effecting you as a whole, not just one of you.

So if a swarm was to have spellcasting ability, would it be able to use personal ranged buffs on itself?

[GilesTheCleric]

Swarms are dense masses of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that would not be particularly dangerous in small groups, but can be terrible foes when gathered in sufficient numbers. For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet—gigantic hordes are actually composed of dozens of swarms in close proximity. A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. It makes saving throws as a single creature.

Personal
The spell affects only you.

A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disinte- grate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, com- pulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.

It's probably a terrible idea to use grammar to adjucate dnd, but in english "you" can mean either a plurality or a singular (since the designers don't use y'all or yinz for plurals). By that reading, swarms can be subjected to range:personal. Perhaps a MM1 written in a romantic language would be able to clarify through its use of either the singular or plural you.

Edit: my google-fu fails at finding a french copy of the PHB.

[Urpriest]

Southern Personal:

This spell affects only y'all.

[Ephemeral_Being]

Edit: my google-fu fails at finding a french copy of the MM1.

I know a guy with a German copy of MM1. Give me a bit, and I'll try to find the relevant section.

What, exactly, are we supposed to be checking, though? The Swarm description you posted doesn't have a usage of "you" to check for du/sie/Sie/Ihr.

[Necroticplague]

I know a guy with a German copy of MM1. Give me a bit, and I'll try to find the relevant section.

What, exactly, are we supposed to be checking, though? The Swarm description you posted doesn't have a usage of "you" to check for du/sie/Sie/Ihr.

You should check the Spell Range section, and see if the "you" in "This spell only effects you" for Personal is multiple or singular.

[Eloel]

This is getting into RAT territory from RAW territory.

[GilesTheCleric]

Southern Personal:

This spell affects only y'all.

Now I want to make a character for a one-shot who uses only dialect and southern versions of things. "God willing the creek don't rise!" *casts Create Water* Maybe that would be too campy, though.


This is getting into RAT territory from RAW territory.

If we have to start looking at old 80's dnd material to solve it, it might end up in RATT territory *ducks*. Besides, if the limitations of the language that the rules are written in prohibit an accurate reading of them, it makes sense to me to look at a language with the appropriate support.

But in all seriousness, I think the swarm rules should allow for personal-range spells regardless: "For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet" is the general rule, then "A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures" is a specific rule. I don't think "you" is ever considered a number elsewhere (and is instead a qualitative difference like allies/foes), so personal range would affect a swarm as if it were a single creature.

There's also that creature that's actually a pair of bonded twin creatures, but as I recall it had a whole lot of verbiage about how exactly spells and effects worked for a creature with one soul but two bodies. Those rules didn't seem very general to that sort of situation, though.

[astrerouge]

While my french version is 3.0, personnal range spell has this to say : « le sort n'affect que celui qui le lance.»*
This is open to interpretation to me since in the case of a swarm, it is a collectivity that cast the spell even if the mentionned sentence use the singular celui. I believe that it would be justified to permit it since that celui is in that case more of a ceux still acting as a single mind. The debate then lies in if the entity must be one of body or one of spirit, or both to be a legit target for such a spell.

I hope that this can help, if only a little.




* Monte Cook, Jonathan Tweet, Skip William. Manuel du joueur, Livre de règles 1, donjons et dragons 3.0, Wizards of the coast, page 148, consulté le 23 mars 2015.

[Hiro Quester]

A druid can have a vermin swarm as an animal companion. See the Wizards' article "What's Bugging You?" here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a). this guide includes a centipede swarm and a locust swarm as possible animal companions.

It also says that the "share spells" ability of a druid also applies to these vermin swarms. So the druid's normal buffs she can cast on herself (as well as spells with a target of "you") can also be cast on the swarm:


the druid may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself.

So a swarm can (in this circumstance) be the target of any buff spell a druid can cast with a target of "you".

By that reasoning (yes, I know, logic and Wizards' rules aren't always the best of friends) an intelligent swarm with a hive mind should be able to cast the same kinds of buff spells on itself in the same ways.

[thecrimsondawn]

A druid can have a vermin swarm as an animal companion. See the Wizards' article "What's Bugging You?" here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a). this guide includes a centipede swarm and a locust swarm as possible animal companions.

It also says that the "share spells" ability of a druid also applies to these vermin swarms. So the druid's normal buffs she can cast on herself (as well as spells with a target of "you") can also be cast on the swarm:



So a swarm can (in this circumstance) be the target of any buff spell a druid can cast with a target of "you".

By that reasoning (yes, I know, logic and Wizards' rules aren't always the best of friends) an intelligent swarm with a hive mind should be able to cast the same kinds of buff spells on itself in the same ways.

That is quite helpful
Now I have something to display in any type of debate about it instead of simple conjecture :)

[atemu1234]

A druid can have a vermin swarm as an animal companion. See the Wizards' article "What's Bugging You?" here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a). this guide includes a centipede swarm and a locust swarm as possible animal companions.

It also says that the "share spells" ability of a druid also applies to these vermin swarms. So the druid's normal buffs she can cast on herself (as well as spells with a target of "you") can also be cast on the swarm:



So a swarm can (in this circumstance) be the target of any buff spell a druid can cast with a target of "you".

By that reasoning (yes, I know, logic and Wizards' rules aren't always the best of friends) an intelligent swarm with a hive mind should be able to cast the same kinds of buff spells on itself in the same ways.

Time to make a Walker in the Waste Druid with a Locust Swarm companion.