How is the Aboleth in play?

[andhaira]

Has anyone here run it against their players, or fight it as a PC?

Does it's challenge rating hold up? IT has CR 10, which means it should be a hard encounter for a party of 4 level 7 PCs if I am interpreting this correctly.

[Occasional Sage]

I have not dealt with an aboleth in 5e, but they look to be even scarier than in previous editions (which is saying A LOT).

In the hands of a smart DM who uses them adroitly, I'd expect that CR10 aboleth should run the show against a party in the 12-14 range: they are more than intelligent enough to target their effects at players who won't have proficient saves; they will act from a distance rather than expose themselves to danger; they have no death-by-age and no problem retreating today so as to win tomorrow.

Oh, and they live in an environment naturally hostile to 99% of PCs, into which they can retreat easily if actually threatened.

[JFahy]

Its challenge level is going to depend heavily on how the DM plays it. If it runs in and melees it's a bit of a joke; if you play it as a genius-intelligence puppetmaster that can dominate people (semi-permanently) and works its 'know your deepest desires' ability it'd be nightmarishly powerful.

I've never run or fought one, but I think of them as archvillain material that I'd want to plan out well in advance - you should have to go through a whole web of agents and plots before you lay eyes on the aboleth.

[Kane0]

I've never run or fought one, but I think of them as archvillain material that I'd want to plan out well in advance - you should have to go through a whole web of agents and plots before you lay eyes on the aboleth.

This. Youd want to give them the attention and prep they deserve to truly show how powerful they can be. Which is to say, very.

[kaoskonfety]

Death is not the end, simply a grevious inconvinince. This does not mean you charge recklessly in, it does not mean the creature is a fool.

It means the current party is the latest in a line of countless hundreds (thousands? millions?) of such groups this thing has been opposed by. And it has been learning. Aboeths are experiance points you earn the crap out of.

You know all those filthy tricks you have in your DM grab bag to keep the villain at the advantage and safe from the heroes?
All of them. Some in triplicate.

You know all those little edges you give the party becuase the villain is "not prepared"? Almost none of them.

These things as the fluff advises have not been layed low by men, but by gods. Each of them is a threat to all freedom in the world.

Cats paw webs of concpieracies built up, who exist soley to be found out and dealt with by adeventurers - so that the Big Bad can take measure, learn their habits, strenghts and weaknesses. Watch, learn. Not for "if" a party of adventurers attacks you - When. The cunning little vermin with their sharpened sticks and rudamentury magics. I've heard they have recently figured out metal - how drool.

The final "dungeon" is going to be in a dark water filled cave with air filled chambers scattered seemingly randomly. Multiple dead ends and every passive resource drain possible for would be mortals. The cave can be madness indusing complex - Aboeths have perfect memory and literal eternities to have caves dug.

They make the short list of villains I allow to be some degree of "genre savy" - not 4th wall breaking, but they know the score. "I am unlikely to beat the heroes without great risk or them making poor choices - since I dislike risk, I shall give them many opportunities to make poor choices".

The main reason to have the party actually manage to kill one is that they do not actually FEAR death - destruction of a partcularly long term plan or vast lair is a greater danger than mere physical death. They can risk loosing a battle to further the war - a war whose end none of the PC's will live to see countless millenia in the future. As final thoughts go: "Have your fleeting victory tiny monkeys, I plot to kill your gods".

[ChubbyRain]

Jeff the Aboleth was a fun NPC/Monster to send against PCs back in 3e.

[Agmundr]

Death is not the end, simply a grevious inconvinince. This does not mean you charge recklessly in, it does not mean the creature is a fool.

It means the current party is the latest in a line of countless hundreds (thousands? millions?) of such groups this thing has been opposed by. And it has been learning. Aboeths are experiance points you earn the crap out of.

You know all those filthy tricks you have in your DM grab bag to keep the villain at the advantage and safe from the heroes?
All of them. Some in triplicate.

You know all those little edges you give the party becuase the villain is "not prepared"? Almost none of them.

These things as the fluff advises have not been layed low by men, but by gods. Each of them is a threat to all freedom in the world.

Cats paw webs of concpieracies built up, who exist soley to be found out and dealt with by adeventurers - so that the Big Bad can take measure, learn their habits, strenghts and weaknesses. Watch, learn. Not for "if" a party of adventurers attacks you - When. The cunning little vermin with their sharpened sticks and rudamentury magics. I've heard they have recently figured out metal - how drool.

The final "dungeon" is going to be in a dark water filled cave with air filled chambers scattered seemingly randomly. Multiple dead ends and every passive resource drain possible for would be mortals. The cave can be madness indusing complex - Aboeths have perfect memory and literal eternities to have caves dug.

They make the short list of villains I allow to be some degree of "genre savy" - not 4th wall breaking, but they know the score. "I am unlikely to beat the heroes without great risk or them making poor choices - since I dislike risk, I shall give them many opportunities to make poor choices".

The main reason to have the party actually manage to kill one is that they do not actually FEAR death - destruction of a partcularly long term plan or vast lair is a greater danger than mere physical death. They can risk loosing a battle to further the war - a war whose end none of the PC's will live to see countless millenia in the future. As final thoughts go: "Have your fleeting victory tiny monkeys, I plot to kill your gods".

so much this!

[Naanomi]

Also remember that your adventuring may be ruining plans set in motion since time began; if that Aboleth escapes it has plenty of reason to devote a century ruining your life and that of your decendants

[Occasional Sage]

Also remember that your adventuring may be ruining plans set in motion since time began; if that Aboleth escapes it has plenty of reason to devote a century ruining your life and that of your decendants

There's no reason that didn't happen five generations ago, and today is the day Master Aboleth gets his revenge.

Kinda like a Gold Dragon, but in reverse.

[Shining Wrath]

From the MM:

Flawless memories
Plot patiently and eternally across eons
Mind readers
Never truly die


So not only have they been preparing for thousands of years in general for the day some mortals dared to enter their lairs, once you come within mind reading range, they are prepared in specific for you and your particular capabilities.

[andhaira]

Ok another thing that's bugging me folks:

The Ranger has an ability where he can burn a spell slot and learn if there any creatures of a certain type in an area. One of these types is aberration. So if I have a Ranger in the party, how can i keep the aboleth a secret?

If the ranger decides to use his ability while in range the player will know immediately there is an aberration nearby. If there is a large body of water in the game (which there is) they can guess it is an aberration.

How should I handle this without having to break the rules?

[Draken]

Ok another thing that's bugging me folks:

The Ranger has an ability where he can burn a spell slot and learn if there any creatures of a certain type in an area. One of these types is aberration. So if I have a Ranger in the party, how can i keep the aboleth a secret?

If the ranger decides to use his ability while in range the player will know immediately there is an aberration nearby. If there is a large body of water in the game (which there is) they can guess it is an aberration.

How should I handle this without having to break the rules?

It tells neither where not how many aberrations are around, so if your players are burning spell slots on that...

Well...

It is a 2 mile radius? Could be anything in that big an area. Gibbering Mouthers. Nothics. Maybe a stray otyugh.

Edit: potentially much bigger area and no actual way to pick what you are sensing. The ability is basically a Yes/No detection on "monsters" in the area. There could quite literally be anything in there.

[Shining Wrath]

Ok another thing that's bugging me folks:

The Ranger has an ability where he can burn a spell slot and learn if there any creatures of a certain type in an area. One of these types is aberration. So if I have a Ranger in the party, how can i keep the aboleth a secret?

If the ranger decides to use his ability while in range the player will know immediately there is an aberration nearby. If there is a large body of water in the game (which there is) they can guess it is an aberration.

How should I handle this without having to break the rules?

That ability only works in the ranger's favored terrain. So one (potentially cheesy) way out is to rule the bottom of a lake is NOT part of the favored terrain. A more sneaky way would be to provide a lesser aberration for the ranger to find; Chuul are aquatic. So he kills some Chuul but sees other Chuuls chillin' and chullin' on the other side of the lake.

[Occasional Sage]

Ok another thing that's bugging me folks:

The Ranger has an ability where he can burn a spell slot and learn if there any creatures of a certain type in an area. One of these types is aberration. So if I have a Ranger in the party, how can i keep the aboleth a secret?

If the ranger decides to use his ability while in range the player will know immediately there is an aberration nearby. If there is a large body of water in the game (which there is) they can guess it is an aberration.

How should I handle this without having to break the rules?

Six terrifying words:

The aboleth keeps a pet beholder.

[Naanomi]

Aboleth made half the abominations in the book anyways, when the ranger starts looking for signs and finds them everywhere in great variety...

[Battlebooze]

They are nasty, but I once played a low level party that killed one easily.

We just told a clan of Kender the big fish monster had cake. We checked it a week later and it had cut it's own throat.

[Occasional Sage]

They are nasty, but I once played a low level party that killed one easily.

We just told a clan of Kender the big fish monster had cake. We checked it a week later and it had cut it's own throat.

Are kender somehow immune to mind control and illusions? I'm unaware of those traits.

[M Placeholder]

Another thing - Make sure it has plenty of Skum and Kuo -Toa flunkies. For extra horror, perhaps turn an NPC beloved of the party into Skum.

Also, use the Aboleth art from the 3rd edition and Pathfinder. The 5th edition is okay, but the Pathfinder and 3rd edition art nailed something that just is not supposed to be comprehended by mere mortals like you and I.

[themaque]

Are kender somehow immune to mind control and illusions? I'm unaware of those traits.

I do believe it was merely touching that many kender minds at once that drove it mad, Mad, MAD! Sweet death's release was the only recourse.

[andhaira]

That ability only works in the ranger's favored terrain. So one (potentially cheesy) way out is to rule the bottom of a lake is NOT part of the favored terrain. A more sneaky way would be to provide a lesser aberration for the ranger to find; Chuul are aquatic. So he kills some Chuul but sees other Chuuls chillin' and chullin' on the other side of the lake.

Thanks @Shining Wrath and others, those are good ideas. Yeah if the Ranger does use the ability I will make sure to have some red herrings.

There is another method I was toying with, but that does not have explicit rules. The Aboleth are masters of mental abilities. Perhaps if the Ranger uses this ability, his mind briefly touches with a vast and alien mind (the Aboleth) and he is nearly driven mad? (some stat damage or lingering damage effect/madness?)

I would use this for flavor and maybe to stop the ranger from keep using this ability, but the thing is if I state the Ranger is touching an alien mind the players will know immediately it is an Aboleth. Sure the players can keep PK seperate from PC knowledge, but I still don't want to ruin the surprise too early for them if possible

[M Placeholder]

There is another method I was toying with, but that does not have explicit rules. The Aboleth are masters of mental abilities. Perhaps if the Ranger uses this ability, his mind briefly touches with a vast and alien mind (the Aboleth) and he is nearly driven mad? (some stat damage or lingering damage effect/madness?)

I would use this for flavor and maybe to stop the ranger from keep using this ability, but the thing is if I state the Ranger is touching an alien mind the players will know immediately it is an Aboleth. Sure the players can keep PK seperate from PC knowledge, but I still don't want to ruin the surprise too early for them if possible

The players might guess it was an Aboleth, or a mind flayer, or a beholder, or an Interlect devourer or a gibbering mouther (Throw some of them at the players). You could use different wording than alien, or just state "You feel a droning sensation in your mind that gets louder and louder, and it feels as though your brain is shuddering against your skull......"

[themaque]

Thanks @Shining Wrath and others, those are good ideas. Yeah if the Ranger does use the ability I will make sure to have some red herrings.

There is another method I was toying with, but that does not have explicit rules. The Aboleth are masters of mental abilities. Perhaps if the Ranger uses this ability, his mind briefly touches with a vast and alien mind (the Aboleth) and he is nearly driven mad? (some stat damage or lingering damage effect/madness?)

I would use this for flavor and maybe to stop the ranger from keep using this ability, but the thing is if I state the Ranger is touching an alien mind the players will know immediately it is an Aboleth. Sure the players can keep PK seperate from PC knowledge, but I still don't want to ruin the surprise too early for them if possible

Giving confusing answers on a power like that is fair, it's a general question. But outright punishing them could be a little much? Just saying there is a risk that they could see it as such and why I suggest using the first method.

"I look for Abberations"
"You find them. Take -3 wisdome damage as I repeat meaningful flavor text"
"I'm trained to look for these twisted minds, but I'm not trained to protect myself from my own power? Not using THAT power again."

Vs.

"I look for abberations"
"yes, you sense them as I repeat flavor text in more diffrent way."
"Where?"
"EVERYWHERE"
"Right, what's my run speed again?"

[Battlebooze]

Are kender somehow immune to mind control and illusions? I'm unaware of those traits.


I do believe it was merely touching that many kender minds at once that drove it mad, Mad, MAD! Sweet death's release was the only recourse.

Things are about to get dark now.

Kender... are already controlled as a race by The Master Aboleth. Nothing else could explain the twisted nature of Kender.
Somewhere in the world is the key to ultimate power. It just looks like a small golden key, shiny, pretty... Someday, one of his minions will find it and bring it back to him, then all will live under his command, including the other Aboleths.

The Aboleth killed himself because even he couldn't take the truth!

[NoseFeratu]

Aboleths are easily the most terrifying encounters I've ever experienced as a player, as two of my favorite characters (Fei the Brawler 12 and Mizita the Marid Sorcerer 17) died to these bastards. The latter of these characters could one-shot Beholders, for a power comparison. the Aboleth's aquatic nature makes it harder for melee types to even approach, and an Aboleth is always smart enough to use its terrain to an advantage.

Basically, an Aboleth played right is a death sentence. One can only imagine what an Aboleth Mage could do... Still, played incorrectly, they're a joke. Basically think of Aboleths as Kobolds for high-level parties.

[Angelmaker]

Basically, an Aboleth played right is a death sentence. One can only imagine what an Aboleth Mage could do... Still, played incorrectly, they're a joke. Basically think of Aboleths as Kobolds for high-level parties.
Tucker's Aboleth's? Oh my freaking goodness. Somebody please play this and make a campaign log of this? Thanks!

[NoseFeratu]

Tucker's Aboleth's? Oh my freaking goodness. Somebody please play this and make a campaign log of this? Thanks!


This will be the DM's expression.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNkrF43SZEU

[Gritmonger]

I have to ask what the Aboleth has as a plan - and how it would plan for the contingency of such a spell as "Find Aberration"

If there are any settlements nearby, you could always have the Aboleth experimenting on them - turning most of the folks into aberrations, if only partially - which would set this off on a human settlement and perhaps require some more investigation... what its plans are for these humans are suspect - maybe it wants to make them aquatic so they can eventually serve it more directly, or be able to serve it and return to the surface. Maybe some of the townsfolk have gills...

[Mystral]

Use Steve. That's enough of a plan.

[Kane0]

I have to ask what the Aboleth has as a plan - and how it would plan for the contingency of such a spell as "Find Aberration"


Just off the top of my head, most of these go off the 'venegeance against the deities' concept:
- Slowly change widespread worship to deities or entities of their own choosing invention, siphoning valuable worship away form the gods that cast them down
- Slow aboleth-ification of anything they come across, just as a big middle finger to those that wished them removed from the multiverse
- Secret R&D into a mcguffin that can allow them to enslave things usually immune to mind-control. Deities for instance.
- Controlling other movers and shakers of the realms to become grand puppetmaster (dragons, fiends, celestials, etc)
- Finding out the limits and inner workings of the new favored mortals of the deities, humanoids especially.
- Mastering their own magical and mental talents, as well as refining creation of the most efficient minions
- Manipulating social, cultural and economic structures of other sentients to watch them kill each other off
- Toying with whatever is stuck in their lair, just for kicks while it thinks over its next couple dozen moves or waits for fruition of a plan
- Contacting and dealing with eldritch horrors from the far realm, just for a different point of view or some neat ideas
- And of course, all of the above

The end goal being to overthrow or kill off the powers that were audacious enough to try and wipe them out, then retake their rightful place as rulers of life, the multiverse and everything. But all in due time.

As far as avoiding 'Find Aberration', anything that could defy scrying and other divination attempts would be valuable, and their most reliable tactic might just be good old misdirection. Feed false information to those that might spill it and all of a sudden the 'sure method' of getting information isn't as accurate as it usually is.

[JAL_1138]

This will be the DM's expression.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNkrF43SZEU

Or possibly this.
http://youtu.be/hU-rjwi7jNU

[Gritmonger]

Ring of mind shielding prevents knowing creature type...as well as the rest of its benefits.

[Shining Wrath]

Aboleths are easily the most terrifying encounters I've ever experienced as a player, as two of my favorite characters (Fei the Brawler 12 and Mizita the Marid Sorcerer 17) died to these bastards. The latter of these characters could one-shot Beholders, for a power comparison. the Aboleth's aquatic nature makes it harder for melee types to even approach, and an Aboleth is always smart enough to use its terrain to an advantage.

Basically, an Aboleth played right is a death sentence. One can only imagine what an Aboleth Mage could do... Still, played incorrectly, they're a joke. Basically think of Aboleths as Kobolds for high-level parties.

"As you approach the lake, you see an aboleth. Make a stealth check to see if you surprise" - said the most inept DM ever.

[themaque]

It's why Aboleths are the end boss of my favorite campaign. They work AMAZING for nearly any long term campaign, working and manipulating from great distances deep within the earth.

[Battlebooze]

Aboleth are terrible and ridiculous as enemies. And not in a good way. Oh, a good GM might be able to run one in an interesting way. I think the best way to use one would be as a (very untrustworthy) information source, or the badguy that the character find worse than say, Mindflayers.

I've never actually ran into one in play, thank god.

GM:"HAHAH I Screwed you all over with a monster that has plot fiat ultimate knowledge and planning skills, but unlike you, didn't actually spend his time playing and working it's way up. Hahahah! Suckers!"

Players: Walk out.

GM: "I showed them! AHAH... Come back?"

[Gritmonger]

...I'm not seeing where it says they can out-and-out read minds. They can probe telepathically - but it only gets access to your desires if you respond. At least, as written in the 5th edition Monster Manual. And unless your greatest desire is to see the aboleth defeated, it doesn't necessarily gain access to that automatically. Without that, and without detect thoughts (its telepathy is listed under languages), you could possibly sneak up on it. Its telepathy is listed as the same range as its darkvision - so it can't try and target you telepathically before it can see you. Its enslave is only 30' - so it has to get pretty darn close before it can charm.

And with regard to it hiding under a lake - that lake is going to be the most befouled, hideous lake around even if the Ranger can't directly detect the Aboleth or aberration.

[JNAProductions]

It can do a lot through its illusion, though.

An aboleth is, honestly, the kind of foe who exists way past its CR. It's a planner, a plotter, a schemer, and it can easily have plans that require 20th level characters to finally thwart. In a fight? Even with a lot of tricks, it just isn't that powerful. For real Aboleth fun, build a custom monster of the appropiate CR and load it up with tricks instead of just numbers.

For a regular CR? Remember that dying isn't a big deal to an Aboleth, so it's just opposing the adventurers out of formality's sake, really. It'll have tricks and traps, but not everything, and will go down without too much spite.

[Gritmonger]

It can do a lot through its illusion, though.

An aboleth is, honestly, the kind of foe who exists way past its CR. It's a planner, a plotter, a schemer, and it can easily have plans that require 20th level characters to finally thwart. In a fight? Even with a lot of tricks, it just isn't that powerful. For real Aboleth fun, build a custom monster of the appropiate CR and load it up with tricks instead of just numbers.

For a regular CR? Remember that dying isn't a big deal to an Aboleth, so it's just opposing the adventurers out of formality's sake, really. It'll have tricks and traps, but not everything, and will go down without too much spite.

...the only way they have illusion in the new MM is if they use their telepathy (?) to "override senses" - there is no illusion text, no mention of illusion abilities, or abilities to cast illusions. Just Phantasmal Force, and then only in-lair.

[JNAProductions]

I mean its lair actions/effects. AFB at the moment, so my bad if I misrembered how it gets used.

[Feddlefew]

Use Steve. That's enough of a plan.

Who's Steve?

[JAL_1138]

Who's Steve?

Excellent question. Seconded. Steve who?

Surely not Stephen the Rock, BBEG of the first published adventure in history?

[Shining Wrath]

...I'm not seeing where it says they can out-and-out read minds. They can probe telepathically - but it only gets access to your desires if you respond. At least, as written in the 5th edition Monster Manual. And unless your greatest desire is to see the aboleth defeated, it doesn't necessarily gain access to that automatically. Without that, and without detect thoughts (its telepathy is listed under languages), you could possibly sneak up on it. Its telepathy is listed as the same range as its darkvision - so it can't try and target you telepathically before it can see you. Its enslave is only 30' - so it has to get pretty darn close before it can charm.

And with regard to it hiding under a lake - that lake is going to be the most befouled, hideous lake around even if the Ranger can't directly detect the Aboleth or aberration.

Under "Gods in the Lake" header:
Aboleths use their telepathic powers to read the minds of creatures and know their desires

Under "Actions: Enslave" header:
The aboleth targets one creature it can see ... SNIP ... the aboleth and the target can communicate telepathically with each other over any distance

Under "Probing Telepathy" header:
If a creature communicates telepathically with the aboleth, the aboleth learns the creature's greatest desires if the aboleth can see the creature

Combine Enslave with Probing Telepathy and an aboleth knows the deepest desires of anyone it can enslave for a single round. "Gods in the Lake" is fluff, no mechanism specified, but suggests that mind reading goes beyond the listed creature features.

[Gritmonger]

Under "Gods in the Lake" header:

Under "Actions: Enslave" header:

Under "Probing Telepathy" header:

Combine Enslave with Probing Telepathy and an aboleth knows the deepest desires of anyone it can enslave for a single round. "Gods in the Lake" is fluff, no mechanism specified, but suggests that mind reading goes beyond the listed creature features.

Right, but that requires getting within thirty feet in the first place (enslavement's range is 30') - and yes, it requires willing telepathy as a first part to reading desires which can be accomplished with the charm from enslavement...

So, really - it's not as out-and-out plot breaking as it might seem at first - it says it can read your greatest desire, not your greatest fear, or anything else specific about you - while the greatest fear might come in handy with Phantasmal Force...

[JAL_1138]

Practically speaking, they use their telepathy to know whatever the DM feels like they ought to. I know, I know, that's not in the rules, but that's how it's probably going to be used.

[Battlebooze]

Actually there would be another fun way to use an Aboleth, and I prefer this variant to the stock "Uber" version. It would still be scary, but funny in dark way as well.

Ok, so Aboleth have this vast storehouse of knowledge they inherit at birth, from earlier generations of slimy under-deep aquatic pit dwelling antisocial alien freak monsters.

They really shouldn't be that flexible mentally. Strong, perhaps, but set in their ways most likely.

They probably don't understand emotions very well, especially ones like love and sympathy. Their understanding of Surface culture is probably twisted and distorted, only being fragments that it has ripped from it's tormented slaves minds. For every dark secret , they know 1000 things that are OUT OF DATE and NO LONGER APPLY.

I love the idea of Aboleth taking over people, but always bungling the long term plans because their slaves act totally bizarre. (Following orders of the Aboleth.)

For example: The Aboleth takes over a highlevel bard, then sends him to seduce the Queen. Under the influence of the Aboleth, the bard sings his heart out, and it's really good. Unfortunately the love song the Aboleth commands him to sing is about how romantic it is to eat the still beating hearts of your fleshy underlings.

So.

Aboleth are the Cobra Commanders of D&D

[andhaira]

Great replies folks.

Quick question: What are some good Aboleth published modules for d20 (D&D, Pathfinder, etc)? I know about Night Below, and From Shore to Sea (PF module). Any others? I want to mine them for ideas...

[The J Pizzel]

The other DM in my group ran one in a one-shot. Atmospherically it was an amazing one-shot....on the other hand, we wiped the floor with it.

I can't remember the specifics, but he had taken up deep in the earth and had a small army of gith as slaves. His lair was a far realms ship with pools and tunnels of water. Granted, it was a random one shot hack and slash and not story driven and didn't have lots of crazy DM shenanigans, but we butchered that thing. And I have no idea what level we were.

jP