Bloodrager and rage cycle

[PilgraM]

Hi guys I'm preparing for a campaign and I have created a Bloodrager with the Arcanist bloodline, I'm also new to Pathfinder and have only played a handful of RPGs. Now my question is I've read about barbarians rage cycle, I just wondering how this works and how it works with a bloodrager?

[Feint's End]

Hi guys I'm preparing for a campaign and I have created a Bloodrager with the Arcanist bloodline, I'm also new to Pathfinder and have only played a handful of RPGs. Now my question is I've read about barbarians rage cycle, I just wondering how this works and how it works with a bloodrager?

Well simple answer is you need a way to deal with the fatigue condition.
Rage cycling basically is entering, stopping and reentering rage every round or every other round so you can use 1/rage rage powers as often as possible.
For that to work you need immunity to fatigue, since you can't start raging with it present.

On how to get immunity to fatigued you need to ask other posters here. It's not really my speciality.

[Frosty]

Take 5 levels of Oracle with the Lame curse, and you'll be immune to fatigue.

[Psyren]

Cord of Stubborn Resolve (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cord-of-stubborn-resolve) is the best method, as it works on any build. You can clear the nonlethal after the fight in a variety of ways.

Human with the Heart of the Fields racial works at the lowest levels in a pinch.

[grarrrg]

Take 5 levels of Oracle with the Lame curse, and you'll be immune to fatigue.

Sort of.
Non-Oracle levels count as 1/2 for Oracle Curse Bonuses.
So you only need 1 level of Oracle and 8 levels of Bloodrager (or 2 Oracle + 6 Bloodrager, or...).


Another way is to get a Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon Ioun Stone (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/scarlet-and-green-cabochon), this converts all Fatigue instantly into Sickened instead. Then at level 8, you take the Internal Fortitude (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/internal-fortitude-ex) Rage Power which makes you Immune to Sickened while Raging (Bloodragers can access Rage Powers through Primalist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager/archetypes/paizo---bloodrager-archetypes/primalist) archetype).


Another way is take the Roused Anger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/roused-anger-ex) Rage Power so you can enter Rage while Fatigued, but when Rage ends user is Exhausted, add 2 levels of Horizon Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/horizon-walker) choosing 'Desert' for Terrain Mastery, this converts all Exhaustion into Fatigue.


Another way is to Variant Channel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/variant-channeling) Farming>Heal. This lets you Ignore Fatigue for 1 minute. Either dip Cleric/Life-Oracle for 1 level and get it yourself, or see if an ally will do so.


Another way is to take Leadership and give your Cohort an ability that removes Fatigue (various spells, Paladin Mercy, etc...).


Another way is to just take 17 levels of Barbarian/Bloodrager and not become Fatigued when ending (Blood)Rage :smalltongue:

[atemu1234]

Take 5 levels of Oracle with the Lame curse, and you'll be immune to fatigue.

Five levels is a bit long for a dip...

[Psyren]

Five levels is a bit long for a dip...

As grarrg mentioned, you can get it with 1 Oracle level if you're willing to wait.

[PilgraM]

Cheers guys thanks for the help, you have definitely given me some options.

[ghanjrho]

Rage cycling on a bloodrager isn't a very good idea at all. First off, you won't have very many rage powers to start with (none if you don't grab Primalist), so you can easily avoid grabbing 1/Rage powers. Second, take a closer look at Greater Bloodrage. Starting at Bloodrager 11, whenever you enter Bloodrage, you free action cast a spell on yourself, that lasts as long as that rage does.

[DarkOne-Rob]

With the Primalist archetype you can have as many Rage Powers as a standard barbarian, and the archetype gives up nothing, so every Bloodrager should be a Primalist...Rage cycling is definitely still a potentially worthwhile option.

[Psyren]

With the Primalist archetype you can have as many Rage Powers as a standard barbarian, and the archetype gives up nothing, so every Bloodrager should be a Primalist...Rage cycling is definitely still a potentially worthwhile option.

Actually you give up bloodline powers to select rage powers, so it's not totally free; in fact, some bloodlines have good stuff all the way up (e.g. Arcane) so there can in fact be pretty good reason not to be a Primalist. Also, you can only do this at 4th level and every 4 levels after, so you're always going to have your 1st-level bloodline power - which is unfortunate, because some of the 1st-level powers suck while some of the 4th-level powers are pretty good, so you could end up waiting till 8+ to get even one rage power. (For example, Aberrant's 4th-level power to boost your reach is useful, while the 1st-level power Staggering Strike is pretty weak... and the 8th-level power Aberrant Fortitude is also useful, so Primalist may not be a good choice for this bloodline either.)

Primalist is useful for trading out the duds in a bloodline, like Abyssal and Celestial's miniscule energy resistance.

[Mithril Leaf]

Actually you give up bloodline powers to select rage powers, so it's not totally free; in fact, some bloodlines have good stuff all the way up (e.g. Arcane) so there can in fact be pretty good reason not to be a Primalist. Also, you can only do this at 4th level and every 4 levels after, so you're always going to have your 1st-level bloodline power - which is unfortunate, because some of the 1st-level powers suck while some of the 4th-level powers are pretty good, so you could end up waiting till 8+ to get even one rage power. (For example, Aberrant's 4th-level power to boost your reach is useful, while the 1st-level power Staggering Strike is pretty weak... and the 8th-level power Aberrant Fortitude is also useful, so Primalist may not be a good choice for this bloodline either.)

Primalist is useful for trading out the duds in a bloodline, like Abyssal and Celestial's miniscule energy resistance.

I think you can trade out your first level Bloodline Power in order to get a familiar, if that would be more useful to you. It's an option.

[Psyren]

I think you can trade out your first level Bloodline Power in order to get a familiar, if that would be more useful to you. It's an option.

That would be neat, where is that?

Alternatively you could go Crossblooded, though that hurts your will save quite a bit.

[Mithril Leaf]

That would be neat, where is that?

Alternatively you could go Crossblooded, though that hurts your will save quite a bit.

I think that's what they're saying here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar#TOC-Bloodline-Familiars)

[Red Fel]

I think that's what they're saying here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar#TOC-Bloodline-Familiars)

Wow. That's more than a bit useful. Particularly that Fey Familiar... Fey Bloodline was potent to begin with (for Sorcs, anyway); this makes it even sicker. (Also, do you think that works for Wildblooded? Because a Sorc with Sylvan Bloodline would get a familiar and an animal companion...)

But yeah. I could see the use of, say, the Abyssal familiar as a capable flanking-buddy on a Bloodrager.

[Psyren]

I think that's what they're saying here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar#TOC-Bloodline-Familiars)

Ah, I didn't see that passage before. That's very useful indeed.

I'd be interested in a dumb Bloodrager with a very smart (Improved) familiar berating him all the time. "You WOULD crush his head! I told you we needed that one!"

[Red Fel]

I'd be interested in a dumb Bloodrager with a very smart (Improved) familiar berating him all the time. "You WOULD crush his head! I told you we needed that one!"

So, a Sage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/sage-familiar-archetype) archetype? (And am I the only one who looks at that archetype and thinks, "By gum, that's a pokedex?")

[Mithril Leaf]

Ah, I didn't see that passage before. That's very useful indeed.

I'd be interested in a dumb Bloodrager with a very smart (Improved) familiar berating him all the time. "You WOULD crush his head! I told you we needed that one!"

Hell, you could go with a Sage one. I don't think anything about it prohibits the Archetypes.

EDIT: Damnable swordsages.

[Psyren]

So, a Sage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/sage-familiar-archetype) archetype? (And am I the only one who looks at that archetype and thinks, "By gum, that's a pokedex?")

Yeah that'll do it :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure they're eligible for the archetypes since they're in the same book.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Actually you give up bloodline powers to select rage powers, so it's not totally free...
The archetype is free - the powers are not. My point still stands, that Rage Cycling in a Bloodrager is every bit as potentially useful as it is in a Barbarian.

[Psyren]

The archetype is free - the powers are not. My point still stands, that Rage Cycling in a Bloodrager is every bit as potentially useful as it is in a Barbarian.

Sure, I'm not denying that - but your secondary claim based on it being 'free' was that, and I quote, "every Bloodrager should be a Primalist." To which I was simply pointing out - if you have a bloodline where all the 4th and higher powers are good (like Arcane or Aberrant), you have a decent reason to choose not to be a Primalist in those cases.

[The Random NPC]

Sure, I'm not denying that - but your secondary claim based on it being 'free' was that, and I quote, "every Bloodrager should be a Primalist." To which I was simply pointing out - if you have a bloodline where all the 4th and higher powers are good (like Arcane or Aberrant), you have a decent reason to choose not to be a Primalist in those cases.

I think the idea is that since you can choose either bloodline powers or rage powers every 4 levels, you should be a Primalist to give yourself options. Even if you decide to choose all bloodline powers, you lose absolutely nothing.

[Psyren]

I think the idea is that since you can choose either bloodline powers or rage powers every 4 levels, you should be a Primalist to give yourself options. Even if you decide to choose all bloodline powers, you lose absolutely nothing.

I don't see how you can call yourself a Primalist if you don't actually make any swaps. It would be like a monk calling himself "Qinggong" but keeping all of the basic features.

[The Random NPC]

I don't see how you can call yourself a Primalist if you don't actually make any swaps. It would be like a monk calling himself "Qinggong" but keeping all of the basic features.

It's exactly like that. Plus there's some indication that archetypes have to be chosen at character creation (or at least that's how it's been implied to me), so if you ever want to choose one the alternate features, you have to choose an archetype at game start.

[grarrrg]

Particularly that Fey Familiar... Fey Bloodline was potent to begin with (for Sorcs, anyway); this makes it even sicker. (Also, do you think that works for Wildblooded? Because a Sorc with Sylvan Bloodline would get a familiar and an animal companion...)

I'm going to go with "not compatible" in this case.
Sylvan Bloodline trades away the 1st level bloodline power, and Bloodline Familiar trades away your 1st level bloodline power. Since you can't trade away the same thing twice, they are not compatible.

[Red Fel]

I'm going to go with "not compatible" in this case.
Sylvan Bloodline trades away the 1st level bloodline power, and Bloodline Familiar trades away your 1st level bloodline power. Since you can't trade away the same thing twice, they are not compatible.

Yeah... I saw that after re-reading the Bloodline Familiar rules... And you can't go with Eldritch Heritage, either, since Sylvan comes from an archetype instead of the basic (Fey) Bloodline.

Pity.

[grarrrg]

Plus there's some indication that archetypes have to be chosen at character creation (or at least that's how it's been implied to me), so if you ever want to choose one the alternate features, you have to choose an archetype at game start.

Ah-ha!
Finally found it. Thought it was a FAQ entry at first, but it's actually hiding in the Retraining Rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining)

Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype.

So you can freely declare/change/adjust what archetypes you have up to the point where the archetype actually DOES something.
This makes a lot of archetypes "Schrodinger's Archetype". They exist in two states until such time as they are observed.

To use Primalist as an example: There is effectively no such thing as a "level 3 Primalist", as the archetype doesn't have any effect until level 4 at the earliest.
On the flip side EVERY Bloodrager that is NOT level 20 can also be considered a Primalist.

[The Random NPC]

Ah-ha!
Finally found it. Thought it was a FAQ entry at first, but it's actually hiding in the Retraining Rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining)


So you can freely declare/change/adjust what archetypes you have up to the point where the archetype actually DOES something.
This makes a lot of archetypes "Schrodinger's Archetype". They exist in two states until such time as they are observed.

To use Primalist as an example: There is effectively no such thing as a "level 3 Primalist", as the archetype doesn't have any effect until level 4 at the earliest.
On the flip side EVERY Bloodrager that is NOT level 20 can also be considered a Primalist.

Well, that's good news. I'll have to point this out to my GM. Thanks!

[Psyren]

Ah-ha!
Finally found it. Thought it was a FAQ entry at first, but it's actually hiding in the Retraining Rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining)


So you can freely declare/change/adjust what archetypes you have up to the point where the archetype actually DOES something.
This makes a lot of archetypes "Schrodinger's Archetype". They exist in two states until such time as they are observed.

To use Primalist as an example: There is effectively no such thing as a "level 3 Primalist", as the archetype doesn't have any effect until level 4 at the earliest.
On the flip side EVERY Bloodrager that is NOT level 20 can also be considered a Primalist.

My point exactly - until the archetype actually replaces something, you are not in that archetype. So a more accurate statement would be that no Bloodrage is a Primalist, until such time as they actually choose to replace their bloodline powers with rage powers, whether they do that at 4 or 20.