DM Struggle: Finally got one of my players to have Agency

[DontEatRawHagis]

Most of my players have a reason to be in the party.

Ranger was hired by the group to be their guide and stuck around.

Assassin's targets just so happen to be who the party is fighting against.

Mage wishes to redeem herself.

Warpriest is on a mission from God.

Fighter wants to just kill things.

And then there was the Healing Cleric...

Her main goal was to get rid of her multiple personality disorder. Which none of her personalities knew about. In fact early on in the game she said it was the mine and the party's job to cure her. Honestly we had a lot of discussions with her about how if this was real life the party would have left her with the nearest doctor/cleric and be done with her.

But I thought hey it wouldnt be too bad, I'll put a lot of ways to cure her of it and maybe have some fun exploring different personalities to throw at her.

That turned into a major debacle. Every personality she had was in conflict with the party except for one of them. In many cases the players were done with her shenanigans and called her out on it multiple times.

I tried setting up multiple times for her to get cured. Healing springs, genies, literal Deus Ex Machina, Towers setup to magically remove diseases, ect...

Each time she ignored them completely.

Finally I got her. A "magic" doctor who existed in the universe before was my out. He had true sight to see diseases so she could be told she had this problem and could fix it.

As long as she captured a demon in an artifact for him.

And thus began the longest session of my life. She had already befriended the demon before. So she had an in, but when she talked with the demon she never acted.

All she had to do was put the mask on him when he was distracted. I telegraphed this to her multiple times, "He's distracted it would be easy for you to trap him in the artifact." "His back is turned he seems like he's not paying attention". "He's holdig up a sign that says banish me right now, in neon letters."

It took the entire party yelling at her to get on with it before she finally realized what was going on.

Now she has her mind back in one piece and I gave her the goal to recover a missing piece, but now she knows her character is missing it as opposed to going around like a chicken without a head.

TLDR; Never let your player make a character that has a goal that their character doesn't know. And while you can easily Deus Ex Machina the problem away it is far better to do so and leave the player with a new plot hook as opposed to fixing everything completely.

[Beta Centauri]

Oof, yeah. Was there a lot of "Well, this is what my character would do?" and "Yes, but my character doesn't know that, and looks at you like you're crazy?" Players who know what's going on but don't think their characters should sometimes work very hard not be seen to be acting on that knowledge, which can reach a level of pig-headedness, even if the player's playing in good faith.

You were far more patient than I would have been. After the first session I probably would have asked the player to make a character who either knows what their goal is, or is actively trying to figure it out.

[Darth Ultron]

TLDR; Never let your player make a character that has a goal that their character doesn't know. And while you can easily Deus Ex Machina the problem away it is far better to do so and leave the player with a new plot hook as opposed to fixing everything completely.

Lesson One: Don't let a player make a character with a ''mental disorder''. It's a big red flag and a trap. Just ask yourself why does the character ''need'' a mental disorder? Ask the obvious question: why can't the player just play the characters personality anyway they want too? The trick is the player is trying to sneak permission in to act crazy and have the other players and the DM agree. Then that allows the player to act out, as badly as they want too and disrupt the game. All while hiding behind the permission and saying ''well everyone said it was ok''.

Lesson Two: Don't leave something like a ''mental disorder'' so vague that the character can simply do whatever they want. Remember the player can play the personality of a character anyway they want anyway. They don't need to have the mental disorder to role play any personality. The mental disorder is just an excuse the player can hide behind. Just imagine a player having a character that does something annoying to the group: say stealing and grabbing everything in sight. After a game or two the group might say to the player ''stop acting like a jerk'' and the player will sigh and do so. Now take the dreaded mental disorder kleptomania. So the character does the same things, but when the group complains the player just hides behind the kleptomania: ''sorry guys, I'm just playing my character. I have to play this way, my character has a mental disorder.''

If you really want a character with a mental disorder, at least have the player write out the details of exactly what they think the disorder is and how they will role play it. And when they hand over a paper of three multiple personalities that are all hostile, crazy and against the party, you might want to say no...or at least ask them to change the personalities.

Lesson Three You don't need to lead the horse to the water. If something needs to be done, then just do it. Don't waste hours and hours trying to get a single player to push the red button.

[VincentTakeda]

If something needs to be done, then just do it.

Where normally I recommend against deux ex machina dm intervention, this seems like a hillarious moment to pull one... Just have some goblin/kender burst into the room, steal the mask and plant it on the bad guy, glare at the player, roll his eyes, grumble something under his breath and then storm offstage...

[Gritmonger]

This is a symptom of a special snowflake - they want their problem to be everyone else's problem, and be the focus of the adventure rather than exploring their own character development.

I had a character with a variant of PTSD and a commensurate drinking issue. It manifested after any combat in which somebody died that he couldn't save, even enemy characters, by him brooding a bit. It was more him exploring his own issues of "why superheroism" if he can't save people, even people that may have gotten on the wrong track. He was a healer, so it could at times be doubly difficult. The one time it really broke him was when another character he was mentoring outright killed an enemy - after failing to save the enemy, the character (who essentially was a medic with the ability to phase through materials) went to his "thinking room" - which had no door and was stocked with whiskey - to contemplate his failures in mentoring another character. That was the extent of his mental illness effect on other characters.

Quick check:


Is the illness mostly internal?
Is it likely to have an effect on roleplaying decisions by the player who has it?
Is it an opportunity for growth and development?

Illness away.


Is the illness mostly external?
Is it likely to have an effect on roleplaying decisions by all other players?
Is it an opportunity to steal focus in the campaign?

Don't do it.

[nedz]

It sounds like you have fixed broken her character. It seems likely that she wanted to explore the multiple personality thing and now that's gone.

That said: everything has it's day and this character concept is old already — at least as far as everyone else is concerned — so you have probably saved your game.

[Gritmonger]

It sounds like you have fixed broken her character. It seems likely that she wanted to explore the multiple personality thing and now that's gone.

That said: everything has it's day and this character concept is old already — at least as far as everyone else is concerned — so you have probably saved your game.

It really sounded like this person just wanted to stay as the focus of the campaign, which every attempt to offer a cure in-game played to, which would explain the player reluctance to have it cured, rather than the player, say, keeping their own journal and trying to communicate with their other selves, trying to find a way to have one personality anchored against the rest, trying to find a way to lock away their power or possessions until they could trust themselves.

Really, the big clue is it affecting everyone elses roleplay and not the players.

[Geddy2112]

It really sounded like this person just wanted to stay as the focus of the campaign, which every attempt to offer a cure in-game played to, which would explain the player reluctance to have it cured, rather than the player, say, keeping their own journal and trying to communicate with their other selves, trying to find a way to have one personality anchored against the rest, trying to find a way to lock away their power or possessions until they could trust themselves.

Really, the big clue is it affecting everyone elses roleplay and not the players.

Yeah, the mental disorder is not the issue here, it is constantly being a spotlight hog and thwarting the DM's attempt to un mary sue the mary sue.

Mental disorders can add a lot of depth and personality to a character, but it should never be something that is plot wrecking. It can be minor, like being slightly OCD over a number or a neat freak, or even something as major as cannibalism. I am okay playing a game with Hannibal Lecter, but I am not okay playing a game with Albert Fish.

[Gritmonger]

Yeah, the mental disorder is not the issue here, it is constantly being a spotlight hog and thwarting the DM's attempt to un mary sue the mary sue.

Mental disorders can add a lot of depth and personality to a character, but it should never be something that is plot wrecking. It can be minor, like being slightly OCD over a number or a neat freak, or even something as major as cannibalism. I am okay playing a game with Hannibal Lecter, but I am not okay playing a game with Albert Fish.

I also prefer it when people do some research. It's all funny to your school friends to pretend like somebody talks to themselves and argues with another personality of their own back and forth, but don't call it "schizophrenia" - because it isn't.

Mental illness is fine when applied as part of character creation, but really only adds to the drama when it's actually a problem for the character and not a big cartoon strait jacket applied like makeup and used as an excuse to act like a cretin.

[DontEatRawHagis]

Today I went drinking with some of my other players. Every single one of them said they were hoping I'd kick her out of game. But none of them said they had a problem because they were afraid I'd kick them out instead.

I didn't want to invite her into the group in the first place because she is a friend of one of my exes.

I almost kicked her out twice, but I thought I was biased and at one point personal stuff came up involving one of her family members.

Now I feel like an idiot that I didn't kick her out of the game earlier. All my players were having a horrible time but no one said anything.

luckily we are on the last session of the campaign. Unluckily I ruined the game experience of all of my players in the process.

[1337 b4k4]

Now I feel like an idiot that I didn't kick her out of the game earlier. All my players were having a horrible time but no one said anything.

To be fair, this one is on your players. The players have a responsibility to communicate to the DM what is or isn't working for them in the game, including how or when another character is hogging the story spotlight. That doesn't mean the player is always right, but it's entirely unfair of the players to expect you to do something about something they view as a problem without saying something to you first.

[mephnick]

To be fair, this one is on your players.

Pretty much. I was in a similar situation a couple of campaigns ago. I thought one of my players was bothering everyone else, but I tried to make it work because I didn't want to be a **** and no one had mentioned it. Eventually one person got up the confidence to talk to me and then all the other players agreed that it was becoming a problem. I told the problem player that he wasn't working well with the group and thankfully he bowed out without a confrontation. The rest of the campaign ended up going really well. It pains me that think that one of my best campaigns could have been a failure because the players wouldn't have spoken to me about the problem.

[themaque]

I'm gonna back up the last two posters. I always ask for "Problems, Questions, or Concerns" at the end of my games, and actively encourage players to approach me with ideas to make the game better.

I've been at tables where the players and the GM are not having fun because of that ONE player, but no one wanted to approach him/her. I took him aside in this instance and talked to him. I wasn't the DM just another player. He didn't even know there WAS a problem. Things smoothed out for a while after that.

Communication, communication, communication.

[Vknight]

Mental Disorders need be handled with care and/or respect. Part of that is making sure it does not ruin the game for others.

A member of the, LOST generation should have some interesting mental disorders. But should thematically fit with being a LOST.
That is one of the key things with mental disorders is the balancing act of good to bad.

[Aquillion]

While she sounds horrifically frustrating and I would never want to play with her (and wouldn't let people play a concept like that in the first place, since it would tend to cause that character's issues to take over the game), I can sort of understand her reluctance to be healed. It's pretty obvious that the multiple-personality thing was what she liked about the character -- healing it would ruin what she enjoys about the game, so it'd be something she'd only want at the very end or in an afterwards.

(I've run into this problem before with any sort of character focused on a disability -- a blind swordsman is a cool concept! Having your cleric constantly pester you with the fact that he can, you know, restore your vision with one spell sort of ruins the concept, and there's not really any way around it.)

None of this changes the fact that her character's particular plotline was becoming a kudzu-like nightmare taking over the story, of course, and getting rid of her makes total sense. But I can understand the frustration of playing a character whose whole concept is based around some disability or ailment and then being confronted with the fact that it can be magicked away with a single spell. You can't play a cool swordsman based on Okita Sōji who is unbeatable in combat but who coughs up blood after fights and eventually dies of tuberculosis when your party cleric knows Cure Disease.

[Gritmonger]

While she sounds horrifically frustrating and I would never want to play with her (and wouldn't let people play a concept like that in the first place, since it would tend to cause that character's issues to take over the game), I can sort of understand her reluctance to be healed. It's pretty obvious that the multiple-personality thing was what she liked about the character -- healing it would ruin what she enjoys about the game, so it'd be something she'd only want at the very end or in an afterwards.

(I've run into this problem before with any sort of character focused on a disability -- a blind swordsman is a cool concept! Having your cleric constantly pester you with the fact that he can, you know, restore your vision with one spell sort of ruins the concept, and there's not really any way around it.)

None of this changes the fact that her character's particular plotline was becoming a kudzu-like nightmare taking over the story, of course, and getting rid of her makes total sense. But I can understand the frustration of playing a character whose whole concept is based around some disability or ailment and then being confronted with the fact that it can be magicked away with a single spell. You can't play a cool swordsman based on Okita Sōji who is unbeatable in combat but who coughs up blood after fights and eventually dies of tuberculosis when your party cleric knows Cure Disease.

From what I'm picking up, her goal in roleplaying it was to have the attention of the group, not to explore the roleplaying opportunities. I don't think her alts had awareness of one another or triggers or situational motivations. They were just pulled out when attention drifted from her character. The Hulk is a decent example of roleplaying multiple personalities. He had a trigger, knowledge of his alts...but each alt had control and only a little memory was shared.