Dread Necromancer > Ultimate Magus Build

[Jicnon]

I have an idea for a DN base class leading in to an ultimate magus as a PrC. This idea came from the fact that Ultimate Magus allows you to add metamagic feats and the DN can combine this with divine metamagic for what I can see have the potential to be a very interesting build. I have read the handbook on WotC's forums for both DN and UM but have not found much information about mixing the two together in a build.

Does anyone have a character like this that they have created? I would definitely be interested in seeing your builds or builds/discussions about such a class combination to see if it is in fact viable and how best to go about playing it. Thanks!

[Jicnon]

I should also mention that the DM is fine with spontaneous caster's using metamagic enhancements without the full round penalty, especially since none of the player's are trying to break the game through it and we will be fighting high level enemies.

[dysprosium]

I think the problem you are going to have is that the feat Divine Metamagic is only for well, divine magic.

The Dread Necromancer casts arcane magic and even though it has rebukes per day (like a cleric) you can't actually use them for Divine Metamagic since there is no divine magic involved.

[Jicnon]

ah, i just reread the fine print on divine metamagic. I would still be interested in trying to build an ultimate magus around dread necromancer's though as the other parts would work well with it I believe.

[Troacctid]

Divine Metamagic is not really a combo with Ultimate Magus, since it only works on divine spells, not arcane spells. And Dread Necromancers don't really prestige as well as other casters, since their natural class features are better, so they're giving up more.

It probably makes more sense to just play a Necromancer minus the "Dread".

[daremetoidareyo]

This thread may help a tiny bit: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?399040-Prepared-caster-vs-spontaneous-caster-list-for-Ultimate-Magus-Shenanigans&p=18831221&viewfull=1#post18831221

The second issue is that you will be likely to be casting off of two different attributes (int and Cha) unless you get BAB 6 for the pittance of spells offered by corrupt avenger. An option then, is to be an illumian and base your spells off of dex or str.

[Jicnon]

That thread is very useful, and we rolled stats with me being lucky enough to do well in 2 of them (16 and 17) so that can go into INT and CHA or I could go the corrupt avenger path like you mentioned. This is especially true since with this class setup I will likely not be doing much aside from casting so my other stats are less relevant.

[daremetoidareyo]

It probably makes more sense to just play a Necromancer minus the "Dread".

Another option, playing off of troacctid, is to human necromancer 2 (precocious apprentice + necromantic bloodline)/archivist 3 (kin mastery)/mystic theurge 10/5 levels of good class

or...if you want to get crazy with it:

necromancer 2 (precocious apprentice)/archivist3/dread necromancer 1/mystic theurge 1 (necro + archiv)/true necromancer13 (theurge as a divine level+dread necro)

wizard accesses CL 16 (8th level spells)
Archivist accesses CL 17 (9th level spells)
Dread necro accesses CL 12 (6th level spells)

[Jicnon]

Isnt True necromancer bad? also I was thinking of using practiced apprentice and precocious spellcaster to do 1 Wujen/3 DN/ 10 UM/ PrC and then retraining those two feats once they have served their puprose.

[Taveena]

Strictly speaking if you have access to the Alternate Source Spell feat, your Arcane spells can be turned into Divine ones at a small caster level penalty (which is negated by Practiced Spellcaster), but you'll need to either dip somewhere else or spend a feat on Southern Magician to qualify.

[Fouredged Sword]

The most optimized solution to this build is likely something like

Dread Necromancer 10 / Ur-Priest 1 / Mystic Thurge 9. This grants 9th level dread necromancer casting and 9th level Ur-Priest casting. You get rebuke undead to power divine metamagic on your Ur-priest side and use your dread necro side for more normal undead creation spells.

If you REALLY want to be a Ultimate Magus, consider the following.

Dread Necromancer 8 / Spellthief 1 / Bard 1 / Sublime Chord 1 / Ultimate Magus 9.

I am AFB, but you loose 3 levels of necromancer casting, so I THINK you lose 9th level spells. That said, you get 4-8th level spells from Ultimate Magus to apply metamagic to your dread necro spells. Spellthief evens out your spell progression from Ultimate Magus so you can apply the uneven spell progression as all dread necro advancement.

[Jicnon]

I had not even looked at Mystic Theurge or Ur-Priest. There are a lot more prestige classes than I had first anticipated. My original plan with UM was to try and throw as much metamagic into the necromancer spell list as possible. I was curious how twinning/quickening etc stuff like the debufs and negative energy sprays would work, especially in a campaign were the other characters agreed to take Tomb Tainted Soul