Sorcerer element rehash

[Grayson01]

I am sure this topic has been done before but with the Element Companion (have not gone through all the spells yet) I wanna bring it back up. Is the Sorcerer Elemental Affinity worth it on any other element other then Fire?

[ChubbyRain]

I am sure this topic has been done before but with the Element Companion (have not gone through all the spells yet) I wanna bring it back up. Is the Sorcerer Elemental Affinity worth it on any other element other then Fire?

Good question, I need to look up the Sorcerer in the book to read the ability again but EE has given us some more Acid Spells.

However there are a lot of new fire spells...

[Chronos]

That depends. Why do you think it's only worth it with fire?

[Easy_Lee]

The reason for this common sentiment is the general lack of evocation spells for elements other than fire. Choosing fire is easy, cold less so, lightning is difficult, and anything else will have very few spells to choose from.

If you want to use a different element, I suggest discussing homebrewed spells with your DM. The simplest solution would be to just rebrand the existing fire spells with the desired element. A more complex solution would be to bring spells in from earlier versions, altering their effects as needed, but be careful not to create broken spells if you do so.

[Shining Wrath]

The flip side to lots of fire spells is lots of fire resistances - but cold is just as bad.
The up side is you are yourself resistant to fire.

[Naanomi]

With EE spells Fire got a small boost, Lightning and Cold got decent additions, Acid got good stuff but probably not enough to be viable, and Poison is still sad and alone

[ChubbyRain]

For being all about elements there sure is a lot of spells that deal piercing or bludgeoning damage (more so for the later).

Now casters can get around elemental damage resistance/immunity much easier. It may not be at-will but there are some decent damage dealers.

[Grayson01]

Yeah I still feel like the majoirity of the elements got the short end on the stick. But I am sooooo glad to see the return of Aganazzar's Scorcher!!!

[Chronos]

Eh, as a sorcerer you're limited in your spells known, anyway. It doesn't matter if there are only a few of your element, because you'd only be able to learn a few. Plus, a lot of the time you're going to be using a cantrip, and the fire cantrip is kind of underwhelming-- Yeah, it does high damage, but that's all it does. Those rider effects are nice.

[Easy_Lee]

Eh, as a sorcerer you're limited in your spells known, anyway. It doesn't matter if there are only a few of your element, because you'd only be able to learn a few. Plus, a lot of the time you're going to be using a cantrip, and the fire cantrip is kind of underwhelming-- Yeah, it does high damage, but that's all it does. Those rider effects are nice.

Trouble is, if you look through the evocation spells, you notice that elements are missing from levels. Fire has a new spell at most levels, and even has a ninth level spell. The same cannot remotely be said about sonic. And sometimes a low level spell cast out of a higher slot just doesn't cut it.

[ChubbyRain]

Trouble is, if you look through the evocation spells, you notice that elements are missing from levels. Fire has a new spell at most levels, and even has a ninth level spell. The same cannot remotely be said about sonic. And sometimes a low level spell cast out of a higher slot just doesn't cut it.

Sonic?

But on a more serious note, I feel bad for the Sorcerer, it seems that every other full caster makes him seem like a joke. They have a cool concept but they just lack that certain something that makes them unique and awesome.

Perhaps if they were made more like 13th Age Sorcerers then we would have a Sorcerer that wasn't so... I don't know... Kinda like the kid brother of full casters.

[Easy_Lee]

Sonic?

But on a more serious note, I feel bad for the Sorcerer, it seems that every other full caster makes him seem like a joke. They have a cool concept but they just lack that certain something that makes them unique and awesome.

Perhaps if they were made more like 13th Age Sorcerers then we would have a Sorcerer that wasn't so... I don't know... Kinda like the kid brother of full casters.

Regarding sonic, looks like I meant thunder. The name changes every so often, and I'm still used to the term used in Neverwinter Nights.

I don't feel bad at all for the sorcerer class. While they don't get as many spells, they get the only metamagic. Metamagic can be quite potent when used with creativity. For example, a sorcerer can haste two friends at once by twinning it. They also have Con proficiency by default. Honestly, sorcerers are my favorite caster class.

[Rhaegar14]

From what I've seen, Elemental Evil has added enough Cold spells for a White or Silver Dragon Sorcerer to be viable, especially if you're looking for thematics more than damage (for example, Sleet Storm and Wall of Ice don't actually deal damage, but very much fit the cryomancer theme). Lightning is also okay but for the gaping hole of a ranged cantrip.

[Strill]

Sonic?

But on a more serious note, I feel bad for the Sorcerer, it seems that every other full caster makes him seem like a joke. They have a cool concept but they just lack that certain something that makes them unique and awesome.

Perhaps if they were made more like 13th Age Sorcerers then we would have a Sorcerer that wasn't so... I don't know... Kinda like the kid brother of full casters.

You could try giving them Spell Points. It would make them more flexible, and fits thematically.

[Madfellow]

But on a more serious note, I feel bad for the Sorcerer, it seems that every other full caster makes him seem like a joke. They have a cool concept but they just lack that certain something that makes them unique and awesome.


From what I've seen, Elemental Evil has added enough Cold spells for a White or Silver Dragon Sorcerer to be viable, especially if you're looking for thematics more than damage (for example, Sleet Storm and Wall of Ice don't actually deal damage, but very much fit the cryomancer theme).

http://demotivationalposter.despair.com/share/8834471.jpg

[Hopeless]

http://demotivationalposter.despair.com/share/8834471.jpg

Okay now I'm interested in picking up 5e!:smallwink:

Not sure if I'll ever get to run it but you have made me more inclined to pick up the base rules instead of just the dmg anyway!

[Madfellow]

Okay now I'm interested in picking up 5e!:smallwink:

Not sure if I'll ever get to run it but you have made me more inclined to pick up the base rules instead of just the dmg anyway!

I'm here to help. :)

[ChubbyRain]

Regarding sonic, looks like I meant thunder. The name changes every so often, and I'm still used to the term used in Neverwinter Nights.

I don't feel bad at all for the sorcerer class. While they don't get as many spells, they get the only metamagic. Metamagic can be quite potent when used with creativity. For example, a sorcerer can haste two friends at once by twinning it. They also have Con proficiency by default. Honestly, sorcerers are my favorite caster class.

Eh, I wouldn't call twin buffs creative so much as basic tactics.

Half of the metamagic is pretty much untouched by anyone who wants to have an effective sorcerer.

Careful Spell, Distant Spell, Empower Spell, and Quicken Spell all are metamagics that either aren't all that useful or come with DM baggage (quicken). I've seen so many arguments about quicken, outside of forums, that I'll stay away. Sure they may have a niche, but not one you would generally want to build around.

You can't be effective if your DM rules weirdly on quicken.

Extended, Heighten, Subtle, and Twinned are all good metamagics, but they aren't things you can get creative with. It isn't rocket science to know when to use any of these.

[Chronos]

So the sorcerer is unsubtle. There's nothing wrong with that. If you want to be subtle, then sorcerer just isn't the right class for you, in much the same way that barbarian isn't the right class, either. Both are in-your-face classes that prefer the direct route.

[ChubbyRain]

So the sorcerer is unsubtle. There's nothing wrong with that. If you want to be subtle, then sorcerer just isn't the right class for you, in much the same way that barbarian isn't the right class, either. Both are in-your-face classes that prefer the direct route.

Technically if you want to be Subtle then the sorcerer might be the best casting class. Actually I would vote for it being the best at being subtle...

Subtle spell for the win :smallcool:

[Joe the Rat]

If you want to use a different element, I suggest discussing homebrewed spells with your DM. The simplest solution would be to just rebrand the existing fire spells with the desired element. A more complex solution would be to bring spells in from earlier versions, altering their effects as needed, but be careful not to create broken spells if you do so.

Retuning the elements on existing spells, and using 5e versions to gauge the damage should be pretty straightforward, unless there's some hidden elemental rarity and resistances principle that's supposed to balance damage types.

Yeah, I don't think so either. Bring on the Toxic Sphere!

[silveralen]

Going only by the books, things are slightly challenging but not unmanageable.

Cold: you have a decent spell at most levels, plus some alright cantrips. You have a bit of a rough patch for lvl 3 slots, right when fire and lightning gain their most iconic spells, which is the biggest problem in my mind.

Lightning: lots of fairly good spells hampered by lacking a ranged cantrip. If you don't mind being a close range caster (dragon sorcerer can arguably pull this off with a decent con/dex) it can end up working well. Multi turn spells (witch something? Away from book) can further help.

Acid: still basically a no.

[Chronos]

Witch Bolt is a trap, as to continue to use it, you have to use your action each round. At that point you might as well just keep cantripping and save the slot.

[silveralen]

Witch Bolt is a trap, as to continue to use it, you have to use your action each round. At that point you might as well just keep cantripping and save the slot.

Well yes but that's the point, no lightning damage ranged cantrip, so witch bolt can stand in for it to a degree.