Keeping things shadowy

[PseudoPanda]

I'm currently DMing for a party of three level 12 PCs that consists of a spellcasting Druid, a melee Cleric and Duskblade. I'm planning an encounter where they face off against a level 9 Warblade and level 9 bard both with the shadow template applied (Only the cleric is necessarily strong/optimized so this is a fairly even match up).

The thing is, since they've had a few encounters with Shadow Plane related creatures (due to the storyline of the cmapaign) the Druid has daylight ready to cast most of the time which foils the main advantage of the Shadow template (Shadow Blend) making the fight significantly easy.

What should I do to maintain a challenging encounter? Are there ways to maintain at least shadowy illumination despite the effects of daylight? I know there's deeper darkness but the bard doesn't have access to that and it also creates a miss chance for the Warblade. Or should I just reward the party for having the proper spell prepared for the encounter? Or just scrap this idea for something else?

[ImperatorV]

Ring of couterspells set to daylight. Given that it's the one weakness of the shadow template and these two are fairly experienced, it makes sense they would think to invest in such a thing.

[Troacctid]

It sounds like it's not going to be an even matchup, given that you are pitting two 9th level characters against three 12th level characters.

I would make the enemies higher level, so that even if they lose their concealment, they are still a challenge.


Ring of couterspells set to daylight. Given that it's the one weakness of the shadow template and these two are fairly experienced, it makes sense they would think to invest in such a thing.

Given that the ring would only counter a Daylight spell targeted at the wearer, and Daylight targets an object touched, not a creature, that seems like a poor strategy.

[Bad Wolf]

Use Darkness in conjecture with Heighten Spell.

[PseudoPanda]

Well they're level nine NPCs with a template that adds +1 CR so that's two CR 10 opponents (EL 12) versus a three player party, that's "Very Difficult" according to this page (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/). I was thinking of just making them level 10 and maybe just scratching the shadow concept or accepting it being countered but that seems boring and for story's sake the template makes sense

[PseudoPanda]

Use Darkness in conjecture with Heighten Spell.

Wow, how did I not think of that? The only issue I'd have is the miss chance applied to the Warblade's attacks but considering he'll have total concealment I think it's a fair trade. This doesn't even feel too much like a jerk move because of course the shadowy bard knows darkness and if he's a spellcaster then he'd naturally have heighten spell.

[ImperatorV]

Given that the ring would only counter a Daylight spell targeted at the wearer, and Daylight targets an object touched, not a creature, that seems like a poor strategy.

*facepalm*

I need to read things better.

[Troacctid]

Imagine that the players were the shadow guys. Do you think they'd be favored against three 12th level characters? No way. More likely than not, they'd get their asses kicked halfway to next Tuesday. And that's exactly what'll happen to your two shadow guys.

If you want it to be a challenging encounter, then instead of two 9th level guys, make it three 10th level guys. Then you'll have a real fight on your hands. If you don't want to level up the monsters, then just accept that the encounter won't be very challenging. The daylight spell only exists to counter this sort of thing, so if your players are going to spend spell slots preparing it and standard actions casting it, they should be able to use it. Otherwise the option becomes a trap.


Wow, how did I not think of that? The only issue I'd have is the miss chance applied to the Warblade's attacks but considering he'll have total concealment I think it's a fair trade. This doesn't even feel too much like a jerk move because of course the shadowy bard knows darkness and if he's a spellcaster then he'd naturally have heighten spell.

If you must give the Bard a countermeasure, try dispel magic. Unlike deeper darkness, it's a Bard spell, and one that has utility in a wide variety of scenarios. Hitting the party with an area dispel would shut off daylight as well as any potential buffs they might have active, and it can be held up as a counterspell, too.

[Deox]

This may or may not be too difficult, but will keep in the theme of Shadow.

Start with a Shadesteel Golem (MM3) - their normal climate and terrain is the Plane of Shadow.

Advance the golem some HD, and add Rudimentary Intelligence (Dragon Magazine, adds intelligence score).

Depending on how high the HD of the golem has been raised, it could qualify for epic feats, including Exceptional Deflection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#exceptionalDeflection) and Infinite Deflection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection).

Have an Invisible Spell Shadow Evocation -> Continual Flame, heightened to 9th level cast on it as well.

[atemu1234]

Wow, how did I not think of that? The only issue I'd have is the miss chance applied to the Warblade's attacks but considering he'll have total concealment I think it's a fair trade. This doesn't even feel too much like a jerk move because of course the shadowy bard knows darkness and if he's a spellcaster then he'd naturally have heighten spell.

There's a fiendish graft that does allow people to see in magical darkness, I do believe.

[Brendanicus]

Well they're level nine NPCs with a template that adds +1 CR so that's two CR 10 opponents (EL 12) versus a three player party, that's "Very Difficult" according to this page (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/). I was thinking of just making them level 10 and maybe just scratching the shadow concept or accepting it being countered but that seems boring and for story's sake the template makes senseGod, I hate that ECL calculator. For the record, every encounter I've had in my campaign thusfar has qualified as "very difficult", yet I haven't killed a single player yet. And most of my party is first-time players.

[Flickerdart]

Well they're level nine NPCs with a template that adds +1 CR so that's two CR 10 opponents (EL 12) versus a three player party, that's "Very Difficult" according to this page (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/). I was thinking of just making them level 10 and maybe just scratching the shadow concept or accepting it being countered but that seems boring and for story's sake the template makes sense


God, I hate that ECL calculator. For the record, every encounter I've had in my campaign thusfar has qualified as "very difficult", yet I haven't killed a single player yet. And most of my party is first-time players.

That calculator uses WotC's own nomenclature. The problem is that the nomenclature is rubbish - a single level 12 fighter against a party of level 12s is "challenging."

Generally, I would send CR+2 or CR+3 encounters for an actually challenging fight. This means an 11th and a 12th level character or two 12th level characters against a 3-man party of 12s.