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Innis Cabal
2007-04-10, 10:07 PM
Calligrapher
While many artists walk the path of life perfecting their craft, there are always those that seek to bring their art to the pinnacle of achievement, and these few know that only through the power’s of the gods and inner perfection can art shine through the veil of reality. Through inner peace and fervent prayer, a calligrapher brings his art into life for all to see.
Adventurers: Calligrapher’s adventure for many reasons. Some search for the single pigment that can make their masterpiece truly perfect. Others go out into the world to bring life into their art. But as varied as their reasons, several things make calligraphers identical to their brothers and sisters. Calligrapher’s champion the arts where ever they roam and often times offer free lessons to the poor or under privileged.
Characteristics: Most calligraphers hear the calling of the great divine art in their youth, drawing and painting even if it is merely with chalk and a rock wall. Other’s take up the brush at the behest of their god or in the face of the natural beauty of the world around them and if one were to ask such a man or woman, they would tell you that the brush chose them, not they who chose the brush.
Alignment: Calligraphers range from good to neutral, and are just as often chaotic as they are lawful. Lawful good Calligraphers are rare, while Lawful neutral calligraphers are almost non-existent. Calligraphers can not be of anyl alignment, with good and neutral calligraphers being ardent champions of art while evil calligraphers are bitter and selfish creatures, using their twisted beauty to cause pain and suffering on those around him.
Religion: Religion is important to the Calligrapher’s due to their dependence of divine power for their abilities. While the particular worship of a single deity is not important as the general worship of the gods, most calligraphers worship gods that support creation, the arts, and learning.
Background: Calligraphers are a sorted lot, some coming from the rich upper echelon’s of society, training their brush work for years and honing their talents, while others come from primitive lands using only the beauty of nature to power their creative abilities.
Often times young Calligraphers, through their brush work, make contact with outsiders and divine beings, learning their first brush stroke that will shake the world around them. After their first encounter with such beings the seeds of power have been to deeply planted to be removed, and the next step is as predictable as the sun rise.
Races: Calligraphers can be of any race, though they tend towards educated races such as elves, human’s, and half elves. Dwarves and Halfling’s are sometimes drawn to the path of the calligraphers due to its creative nature. Though due to the nature of the calligrapher, any race, even monstrous ones, can be drawn to their path should their hearts, souls, and minds be drawn to it.
Other Class's: The Calligrapher appreciates the wizard and sorcerer’s ability to bring their dream’s into reality through studying and force of will. He sees the need for fighter’s and paladins though he often times looks down on them as being coarse and ignorant of the beauty of the world around him. Druids, cleric’s and rangers rise the curiosity of calligraphers for their connection to the divine and to nature, though they are seen much the same way as fighters and paladins for their lack of understanding of the arts. If a single class gained the true respect of the Calligrapher it would be the monk, who’s dedication to her body reminds the calligrapher of his own dedication to his art and soul.
Role: Calligrapher’s serve much the same role as a druid and sorcerer, blasting foes with their divine brush techniques while supporting other’s with buff’s and limited healing. Like a bard or warlock he often times fits in best with a party that already has both a healer and arcane caster, since his power’s only cover these bases minimally.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Calligraphers have the following game statistics
Abilities: A high Charisma score makes a calligrapher’s brush techniques harder to resist. A high Dexterity is very useful for the calligrapher who’s inability to wear most armor’s limit their combat abilities, while also allowing him to better aim his powerful divine slash while a good constitution is also useful.
Alignnment: Any
Hit Dice: d6

{table]Level|B.A.B|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Words Known|Inkpoints
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Draw Wounds1d6, Steady is the Hand that Draws, Word (Substance)|1|5
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Create Minor Item|2|10
3rd|+2|+1|+1|+3|Draw Wound 2d6|2|15
4th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Energy Resistance 5|3|20
5th|+4|+1|+1|+4|Dance of the Cherry Blossom, Draw Wounds 3d6|3|25
6th|+4|+2|+2|+5|New Word (Substance, Form)|4|30
7th|+5|+2|+2|+5|Draw Wounds 4d6|5|35
8th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+6|Energy Resistance 10|6|40
9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+6|Draw Wounds 5d6|7|45
10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+7||8|50
11th|+8/+3|+3|+3|+7|Draw Wounds 6d6, New Word (Substance, Form, Construction)|9|55
12th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Energy Resistance 15|9|60
13th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Create Moderate Item|10|65
14th|+10/+5|+4|+4|+9|Draw Wounds 7d6|11|70
15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+9||12|75
16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|New Word (Substance, Form, Construction, Elemental|12|80
17th|+12/+7/+2|+6|+6|+10|Draw Wounds 8d6|13|85
18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11||14|90
19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Energy Resistance 20|14|95
20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Re-Writting Tapestry, Draw Wounds 9d6|15|100[/table]


what do you think for the fluff?
I was thinknig making the class along the lines of a warlock/druid/cleric so invocations, more on the slight healing/environment minipluation with limited shape changing abilities....so what do you think so far with the idea?

Maerok
2007-04-10, 10:32 PM
I think it'd be kind of cool. Sort of an Okami feel to it? Perhaps Marvelous Pigments would be an important item in such a case.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-10, 10:35 PM
ya its based off of Okami, made a prestige class but i think a whole class could be dedicated to it, any idea's? And marvelous pigments would certianly get their blood pumping

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 12:14 PM
Like the fluff so far, but i don't know much about the topic myself.
Only complant, why can't they be evil, we have evil druids
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 02:32 PM
yes but druids are the definition of nature, nature can be cruel and uncaring, almost hostile while the Calligrapher is the beauty of nature and art and the divine insperation that empowers it, and to me one can not be evil and have the true movement of soul and mind that comes along with this class

Nasrudith
2007-04-11, 02:45 PM
Calligrapher

Alignment: Calligraphers range from good to neutral, and are just as often chaotic as they are lawful. Lawful good Calligraphers are rare, while Lawful neutral calligraphers are almost non-existent. Calligraphers can not be of any evil alignment due to the respect of nature and beauty it takes to control the divine creation that flows through their veins.

You contradicted yourself there, just often chaotic as lawful then mention that the only lawful alignments availible are rare among them.

elliott20
2007-04-11, 02:51 PM
Yeah, a lot of calligraphy masters in China often talk about how calligraphy for them is a matter of zen and a matter of honing their instincts and making something divine out of the mundane. So, yes, even a slab of inkstone, applied to horse tail fur bundled together, can elevate a man to the sublime. In that very sense, I don't see how being evil can work with this zen level.

have you thought about abilities that this class will have?

I imagine it will get a number of monk like abilities such as diamond soul and what not. (To reflect the internal tranquility of his character)

I imagine that he will be able to use his calligraphy to cast spells. (Hell, something like a "diagramancer" kind of deal...)

Maybe he would cast divine spells in the same fashion as a sorceror or bard, drawing the very effects that he's trying to emulate.

I imagine that in the earlier stages, his drawings might do something as simple as a suggestion spell, just like a bard, but then eventually move up to being able to summon monsters and allies straight from the very paper he draws upon. Perhaps at some point, he will have a power word: stun that comes in the form of a single brush stroke, that when examined in greater detail, reveals an abyss of details and subtlety that drives the very target to the point of paralysis in it's beauty.

sigh, so many ideas. I like this class.

Telonius
2007-04-11, 02:53 PM
Interesting flavor. So they cast by, what, using brush motions? Or actual paint?

I can see a feature being something like Scribe Scroll, except you store a single letter or word on the scroll, with only other Calligraphers able to use it. (Can't think of the PrC that's like this ... Geometer? Cartogramancer?)

elliott20
2007-04-11, 02:56 PM
heck, why not be able to do both?

Maybe at a later level, the calligrapher can draw straight onto what ever medium he desires and create the effect that way. i.e. he casts an "arcane lock" spell by drawing on the door.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 03:10 PM
they will be as the warlock in casting. With a small number of "brush strokes" but they will be divine. And ya i kinda did mess up the alignment, ill change it so its not so silly. The prestige class had "ink points" much like power points but i beleive the warlock would be easiest class to use. Their will be a good deal of flavor on how they cast, which i guess i can leak a little now and get some input on it.

The calligrapher uses the "brush of his soul" to "paint" into reality. To the uninitiated the calligrapher merely seems to be waving his hand in strange directions, but in reality he is using his soul as a brush, so to him he is using the brush to paint a lock on door, as elliot so wonderfully put it, but to a fighter or non calligrapher(or warlock as they will act as innvocations do) they merely move their hand and the door is locked.

As for other abilities, i was thinking of slight shape changing as a druid, into animals and magical animals, perhaps at the end elementals or the like. THey will have an eldritch blast like ability as well, known as brush slash, which will be identical to the warlocks ability.

What do you all think?

elliott20
2007-04-11, 03:37 PM
the brush blast ability seems just a tad silly to me.

But also, I believe that the calligrapher should have a greater emphasis upon using his brush as a channel for his abilities. After all, he's trying to reach a new level of zen via his brush strokes. Without a brush in hand, he either must have reached a new level of enlightment or he's probably going to have a hard time focusing as well.

I also think that that instead of shape changing, he should have the power to create things through his brush instead. After all, as an artist, he's not placing himself in his work, he's CREATING works.

In Chinese calligraphy, a lot of the art is not just in the content of creation, but in the emotions and the feelings that his work conveys. So I feel that a line of compulsion/mind spells would be appropriate for works that he creates, while things like force effects would be his drawings coming to life.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 04:54 PM
it is based off of a game called Okami, and one of the many abilities you get is the ability to destroy things with a single quick brush stroke. The emphises is not so much on the real brush but the soul as a brush. He has gone past the bounds of brush and paper and into the realm of the soul and the tapestry that is reality. Though the create opbject ability does sound better.

The things i am going for with the innvocations is control over the world, so planet growth, the sun/moon/light/darkness, reapairing and healing, minor creation of objects(though a class ability does seem better) and control over the environment

I_Got_This_Name
2007-04-11, 07:53 PM
I thought that in Okami there was, in fact, an actual brush (or brush stand-in). Never played (just read the Wikipedia on it, actually), though, so I could be highly off-base.

Regardless, even if there isn't, I think that this is a case to break with the source material and require one as a focus.

Also, make the direct damage more flavorful. "Brush Blast" is silly. Very silly. If you want the ability to write something out of existence, a better way to do it would be to give them a stroke that they can learn to deal 1d6/level to an enemy with a save to negate, and disintegration if it kills them.

Another possible idea would be to use the Truenamer, rather than the Warlock, as the base, and base it on their Calligraphy (or Craft (Calligraphy)) skill, or possibly a level check (divine calligraphy transcends mortal).

If you use the Truenamer, do it right: Magic items don't add to the skill (Spells, Utterances, and Strokes do, though), the DCs don't scale as fast (possibly 15+CR+Stroke Level, or even lower the base to 10). Possibly also weaken the Law of Resistance (such as on a per-encounter basis).

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 07:57 PM
i was also thinking of making them a shadowcaster base, im still juggling with idea's and any suggestions are helpful. Also i am working on the "ANIME HERO" base class as well so my time is divided...and working on a gerneric "make a class" class...so i have alot of things on my plate

elliott20
2007-04-11, 08:58 PM
A shadowmancer class would be cool, but I believe it would also be somewhat limiting.

In a sense, I felt that the way you should handle should be a little like bardic magic and have a lot of abilities be based off of the calligraphy skill check.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 09:11 PM
warlock would be limiting as well, and i want there to be a limit. Though the true namer would be good to i guess.....as i said i have alot on my plate and any help with stats/ability ideas would be great, everything posted is on the doc file that ive written up and will be considered. Thank you all for yoru help and i hope that you take a look at the other two class's comming soon

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-11, 09:39 PM
Heh, wow, this got a lot more responses than my attempt. Guess I should include more Fluff. O_o (Though yours doesn't have, yaknow, stats for the most part...)

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 10:05 PM
Make brush blast be more like brush slash
The calligrapher draws a wound in the air, a pen slash and a wound appears on the target
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 10:07 PM
wondered when you would get here EE, that name is alot better, and the name was really the only thing i could think of, to Mojotech, and i was the one that made the PrC first ;), and stats are comming sometime soon, after i get alot of my other stuff out of the way

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 10:12 PM
wondered when you would get here EE, that name is alot better, and the name was really the only thing i could think Mojotech, and i was the one that made the PrC first ;), and stats are comming sometime soon, after i get alot of my other stuff out of the way

Thanks, i've played a bit of the game myself.
Also, just one more attempt on aligment
Couldn't some people use their zen to get in touch with their inner darkness, thus producing a twisted but powerful corruption of the sacred art. The people use the inner void in their soul to produce the same effect as the good or neutral calligraphers, but theirs is one based on egotisiom and lonelness
Maybe a Prc instead?
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 10:14 PM
there is a PrC called the Brush god, and you make a good argument on alignment

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 10:16 PM
there is a PrC called the Brush god, and you make a good argument on alignment

Thanks.
I would like to point out, while i have not yet seen the complete crunch, i really love the fluff. One of my players has been complaing about wanting to play somebody like this for years, and i'd finally not only got hte class, but a great fluff for it as well
I'll keep in touch
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 10:18 PM
thanks EE, please do it will be done by next week i promise, and look for the anime hero, and the villian that wil lbe comming along with it!

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 10:22 PM
thanks EE, please do it will be done by next week i promise, and look for the anime hero, and the villian that wil lbe comming along with it!

Sweetness, sounds quite cool, i'm ready to put it into my oriental adventures game.
nice avatar by the way
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 10:23 PM
thank you very much, that is one of my all time fav characters i ever played, Loopyzebra was nice enough to make it for me, now we dont look like we double post. And thank you for the positive feed back on the class, now that someone really wants to see it i have an excuse to make it

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 10:36 PM
thank you very much, that is one of my all time fav characters i ever played, Loopyzebra was nice enough to make it for me, now we dont look like we double post. And thank you for the positive feed back on the class, now that someone really wants to see it i have an excuse to make it

wait one question, what character?
I just thought you avater was a drawing, who is it?
and i look forward to the class
from,
EE

EvilElitest
2007-04-11, 10:39 PM
thank you very much, that is one of my all time fav characters i ever played, Loopyzebra was nice enough to make it for me, now we dont look like we double post. And thank you for the positive feed back on the class, now that someone really wants to see it i have an excuse to make it

whoops, double post,
Nothing to see here
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-11, 10:57 PM
the avatar is named Tebryn Cabal, a character i have been playing since the start of 2nd ed, and was a house ruled half drow. In 3.5 rules he is a level 57 character who's ultimate goal is to forge a country for the half elves of his world, which is a home brew my best friend created so long ago...., and become a god king, his character life has been rough, and he is one of two characters who were level one at the start, and sadly the game has ended with a simple "and thus their goals were achived" so i made him my avatar

god that brought up so many old memories....

Reptilus
2007-04-11, 11:13 PM
yes but druids are the definition of nature, nature can be cruel and uncaring, almost hostile while the Calligrapher is the beauty of nature and art and the divine insperation that empowers it, and to me one can not be evil and have the true movement of soul and mind that comes along with this class
Evil can appreciate beauty and make it as any other alignment. It's simply more selfish. I disagree very stongly that someone's bad morals prevent them from making good art. Salvador Dali was a wonderful draughtsman and an all-time great among painters, but he also dedicated most of his personal life to angering other people for his personal amusement; he became a fascist just to piss off a fellow surrealist named Andre Breton. Things like that are almost a textbook definition of the evil alignment, yet his works are still beautiful and give insight into the human sould and the nature of the worldaround them.
Or look at Cao Cao, a figure in Chinese history and master of nature poetry, yet a cruel, vengemful, amoral, paranoid, and violent general. Even those on his side and among his closest advisors spoke of his legendary wickedness and hatefulness; his only good traits were his carefulness and ruthless cunning. He is one of the least morally sympathetic characters in history and literature, yet his poetry on the subject of nature is honestly deeply inspiring and poetically nearly flawless in organization and sound combinations.

EvilElitest
2007-04-12, 09:26 AM
Evil can appreciate beauty and make it as any other alignment. It's simply more selfish. I disagree very stongly that someone's bad morals prevent them from making good art. Salvador Dali was a wonderful draughtsman and an all-time great among painters, but he also dedicated most of his personal life to angering other people for his personal amusement; he became a fascist just to piss off a fellow surrealist named Andre Breton. Things like that are almost a textbook definition of the evil alignment, yet his works are still beautiful and give insight into the human sould and the nature of the worldaround them.
Or look at Cao Cao, a figure in Chinese history and master of nature poetry, yet a cruel, vengemful, amoral, paranoid, and violent general. Even those on his side and among his closest advisors spoke of his legendary wickedness and hatefulness; his only good traits were his carefulness and ruthless cunning. He is one of the least morally sympathetic characters in history and literature, yet his poetry on the subject of nature is honestly deeply inspiring and poetically nearly flawless in organization and sound combinations.
Yeah i know Cao Cao's work, but he was not quote as bad as you say, he die get the lolty of his men
I'm just keeping this thread alive until Innis Cabal gets his crunch up
And innis, you got the guy to level 57 from level 1 ?

Damn
from,
EE

elliott20
2007-04-12, 11:03 AM
cao cao only got pooed thanks to one man - Liu Bei.

He was made into a villain in Romance of the Three Kingdoms for the express purpose of giving Liu Bei a legitimate enemy and foe.

i do agree about the alignment though. I think it is possible for a person, in his twist perception of reality, still be able to attain the zen that is needed for this art but be evil at the same time.

salvador dali is a great example. Good call, Reptilus.

as for the brush blast, well, while I understand that it's drawn from Okami and all, I felt that a brush blast makes the class feel too video-game-esque. Draw Wound I think makes sense. And you can do that by just giving him the "cause wounds" spell series.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 01:32 PM
i am very well aware of Cao Cao, and yes his art is beautiful, and elliott20 hit the nail on the head about him. I have already said it will be changed, thanks to EE's first obserbvation and the draw wound ability is one of the hang up's and reasons this is taking time, i thank you all for your input, i am really surprised at the ammount of feedback i have gotten, normaly my stuff gets ignored it seems. I will work on it tonight as much as i have time, i hope to get this thing done by wed's of next week so keep looking back

And EE, i played the character off and on for about 10 years, so 1 to 57 is pretty good, i really want to keep playing him, i think i might remake him in the next game i run

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 02:29 PM
ok guy's here are some idea's i have penned down

Steady is the hand that draw's: +4 to all craft checks invloving drawing, painting, or calligraphy

The Wounds that Bind: At 1st level a calligrapher is able to reach
out and with a single deft stroke of his brush, he is able to cuase wounds to erupt from this that seek him harm. This ability is identical to inflict minor wounds, save that it does not heal undead, and is a spell like ability. As the calligrapher's brush becomes stronger in the world around him, so to does his ability to cuase wounds to those who hinder his work. This ability scale as if the calligrapher was a cleric of equal level. This ability is usable 4X the charisma modifier of the calligrapher, its DC is equal to 10+spell level+Cha modifer.

Breath of the Cherry Blossom: As the calligrapher's power over reality grows, so to does his soul become closer to the perfection of the simple paint brush. At 5th level a calligrapher becomes immune to posions and disease's

Re-writting Taperstry: With a final brush stroke upon the world, the calligrapher feels a power wash over him, cleansing him, making him something better then he was, and it is at this moment he knows his soul and brush have become perfect. At 20th level the calligrapher's type changes to outsider.


What do you think? There will be more abilities between 5 and 20 but thats what i have thought up so far. Casting is still up in the air but i am really pleased with the idea of a warlock type casting power. A limited number of brush strokes that can be used over and over and over seems to fit more with the class then a limited amount of times the calligrapher can affect the world seems silly to me

elliott20
2007-04-12, 03:32 PM
yeah, that's the problem with the D&D system. Everything needs to be scaled to a per day schedule else all the abilities will run out of control.

The way I see it, you can do this in several ways -

either keep all of the infinity use abilities fairly minor and low powered so it's continued use will not be problematic

or

you can write up the abilities so that the character either has to take some risks when using the ability, i.e. arcane failure chances or what not

or

you can do it so that it takes a significant amount of time to do. i.e.
A calligrapher can draw a creature that looks so convincingly lifelike that upon it's completion the beast will come to life for X rounds and function just like a summon monster spell. However, completing the painting will take a number of rounds or a number of XP (as he has to put his own soul and essence into his work)

or

you can just give them a spell list and treat them like warlocks.

btw, the brush wound ability might need a little more since inflict minor wounds will deal effectively 1 point of damage and it doesn't scale with level.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 03:40 PM
i mean scale in level as you get the next spell in the tree, so you will have inflict moderate wounds, mass at 20th level or what ever the max is, i don't have my books on me since im at work.

If i go with the innvocation build it has arcane spell failure chances, so thats not a big deal. Look at any of the warlock moves and tell me if they are over powered. I really think its the way to go myself, though i like the idea of having a "make a check" ability..perhaps some class abilities will take that into consideration

elliott20
2007-04-12, 03:50 PM
ahh I see. well, you might want to be more specific as to how that progression maps out when you get to your books, as having 20-30 inflict critical wounds spells a day is pretty damn good.

warlock stuff is generally not overpowered, IIRC. In fact, they're basically a blast-o-mancer with an easier trigger finger.

I like the abilities you've written down so far. The wound ability needs to be define better, but I think you're going in the right direction.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 03:52 PM
ya, it is just concept as of now, with all the people that seem to be watching i am taking this thing one ability at a time, its like walking on nails really...and the wound ability will be reworked of course.

with all the great input i think it wouldn't be to hard a stretch to make a think tank...for other base class's and the like...if anyone is interested i would be glad to have you all at my side.

Angafirith
2007-04-12, 04:58 PM
I just had an idea about casting that you might find interesting:

You get a certain number of ink points per level (the ink pool), which may be modified by some stat or another. You also have an ink regeneration rate, that is dictated by your level, feats, and perhaps magic items. This is the number of ink points you recover on your turn.

Depending on the technique you use, a different number of points is taken out of your ink pool. This way, you can have stronger techniques take more ink points. If you use a technique like Inferno (Fireball?), it might take 3 points where a simple wound would take one. You could pretty much use plain old Arcane spells, since they seem to be quite similar to many Okami techniques.

If you have an ink pool of size 12 and a regeneration rate of .5, you could still use Inferno, just that you would not be able to keep it up. If Power Slash costs 1 ink point, you would be able to keep it up for longer.

Now, if you get a feat that boosts regeneration rate (Golden Ink Pot?), maybe it'll add .5 to your current rate for a total of 1. You could use Power Slash at will, but not Inferno.

Of course, you would have to be careful to dictate exactly how much damage a Power Slash does, to make sure that it's not too much more powerful than attacking. Perhaps it's a 2d6 ranged touch attack?

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 05:04 PM
i had that in the prestige class, and i was thiking of keeping it, but im not sure...if you go back through the home brew section you will fidn the brush god, and the power slash will stay as writen. Its going to have roots in Okami but i think its already moved beyond Okami in scope and application. Though your input is greatly apprciated, and i really am thinking of making it a power point base warlock class....though that seems like a lot of work

Reptilus
2007-04-12, 09:55 PM
I think Romance of the Three Kingdoms was kinder on Cao Cao than he deserved. Same goes for Liu Bei and the Sun family, though. Most monarchs at the time were pretty despicable, but he did stand out for sheer psychotic brutality and paranoid fits. Oh, well, I have a harsher opinion on leaders than most folks do. Anyway, I'm sorry I missed the earlier post about alignment change.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-04-12, 09:59 PM
@Innis-Hey now, just because you tried it first and I made a different version doesnt mean youg et ALL the credit. Especially when you didn't stat it up at first with this one. :P

@Angafirth- I did a take on this class earlier, and came up with something like that-feel free to look at it here-
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39382
I'm quite proud of it. (Even if it's dropped to page 5 by now.)
Even if you don't use it I'd appreciate you taking a Gander. :)
(Same goes to everyone else. ;) )

Anyway, good luck Innis. :) Not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to give people a useful reference/second opinion.

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 10:18 PM
i understand, you are proud of your PrC, and it was good, im just trying to take my original idea and make it better, if thats ok?

And Cao Cao was a ruler, pure and and simple. The Romance of the three kingdoms is not 100% true, Cao Cao did soem terrible things but he was by far not the worst ruler in all of China's 4000 years of history. He did do some great things for the country at that time, brining stability no matter how insane you are is a good thing. The only reason he is portrayed in history as a villain is becuase he stoped the true heir from getting the throne and thats not good juju

EvilElitest
2007-04-12, 10:21 PM
Here is an idea

have ink slash be like the warlock ability
Have the mid levels be fillled with spells that literly make drawings into life

So for example, the spell

Draw monsters
Acts like summon monsters, except you use Ink points
You can also literly make your own object like a truenamer
So if you find the character for
Sword
You can summon a sword by drawing it
YOu only get a few characters per level or can get more as feats
At very high levels, the calligrapher can quite literly draw in the air with his pen, creating wall, chairs, and stair by drawing in the air
He can also use ink rainbow, an attack that causes a massive amount of random effects, as the pure power of zen is unlessed in a current of crativity
Or something to that effect

And EE, i played the character off and on for about 10 years, so 1 to 57 is pretty good, i really want to keep playing him, i think i might remake him in the next game i run
Wow, i can't say more
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 10:27 PM
EE, i really like your "learns brush strokes" idea alot....so much so i am putting it down on the document...its going to boost the time it takes to make the thing but that right there is the best idea i have heard. Elliott20 brought up the idea of making monsters, and aas i told him i do not like the idea of making real life things in this application, if you look at my paper magic thread i have done something similiar...

Do you think i should stick with the int points and instead of innvocations just make it brush strokes for words like "Wall" and "Stone"? And then give them the ability to use those words togather at higher levels so you could get "Stone Wall" or "Cherry Blossom Tree only problem is how do you choose what words should be higher level? What makes the word sword higher level then the word tree? or the word Steel higher level then bridge?

EvilElitest
2007-04-12, 10:51 PM
EE, i really like your "learns brush strokes" idea alot....so much so i am putting it down on the document...its going to boost the time it takes to make the thing but that right there is the best idea i have heard. Elliott20 brought up the idea of making monsters, and aas i told him i do not like the idea of making real life things in this application, if you look at my paper magic thread i have done something similiar...

Do you think i should stick with the int points and instead of innvocations just make it brush strokes for words like "Wall" and "Stone"? And then give them the ability to use those words togather at higher levels so you could get "Stone Wall" or "Cherry Blossom Tree only problem is how do you choose what words should be higher level? What makes the word sword higher level then the word tree? or the word Steel higher level then bridge?

I need to reread tome of magic, but if you have it try basing it off of true naming magic, it think it is something like that
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-12, 11:03 PM
so a psion/truenamer/druid mix...going to be fun...i think i have an idea...

the word idea stays.....that has been made final, but instead of being able to write that word several times per day its going to be like the psion, with points though the regen time will be changed so that they cant go "nova"

on the "how do you decide what words are more powerful" i think i have an idea

so 1st level you get simple words, like stone...which makes a stone, or arrow/bolt...that makes well...a bolt or arrow.
next step would be larger things like "wall" which makes more then likely a 10 foot long wall made of simple wood, and the ability would go from there...
As the calligrapher grows in level he can place words togather, making the ability take longer to "cast", but making the ability more powerful. so an ability could be Large Stone Wall, which makes perhaps a 30 foot long wall of stone 5 feet thick....thats the idea i am running with...what do you think

EvilElitest
2007-04-13, 11:31 AM
so a psion/truenamer/druid mix...going to be fun...i think i have an idea...

the word idea stays.....that has been made final, but instead of being able to write that word several times per day its going to be like the psion, with points though the regen time will be changed so that they cant go "nova"

on the "how do you decide what words are more powerful" i think i have an idea

so 1st level you get simple words, like stone...which makes a stone, or arrow/bolt...that makes well...a bolt or arrow.
next step would be larger things like "wall" which makes more then likely a 10 foot long wall made of simple wood, and the ability would go from there...
As the calligrapher grows in level he can place words togather, making the ability take longer to "cast", but making the ability more powerful. so an ability could be Large Stone Wall, which makes perhaps a 30 foot long wall of stone 5 feet thick....thats the idea i am running with...what do you think
That sounds good, like psion except "ink points" instead

Maybe you could combine that with the drawing idea i mentioned

You say the word and you can draw a picture and some effect happens

So if i know the word light, i can draw sun beam at low leves and basiclly cast light. If i get more powerful i am more in tune with hte zen of hte word, i can cast sunburst
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-13, 02:37 PM
i think i am going to use your suggestion EE, its really creative and much better then simple innvocations. Thank you for your help

EvilElitest
2007-04-13, 03:14 PM
i think i am going to use your suggestion EE, its really creative and much better then simple innvocations. Thank you for your help

NP, can't wait to see the class complete. Let me know about any more ideas.
from,
EE
P.S. join the church of link's hat, you know you want to

Innis Cabal
2007-04-13, 04:32 PM
ill keep ya'll updated, i am gonig to be really busy this week and next but it will be done by weds i promsie

EvilElitest
2007-04-16, 05:08 PM
ill keep ya'll updated, i am gonig to be really busy this week and next but it will be done by weds i promsie

I'll keep the thread alive until then
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-16, 09:34 PM
Well EE, here ya go, tell me what you think. Words are to come tommorow and weds... and the types of words are open to change if anyone can think of something better....feel free to give imput, i hope its not to bad

EvilElitest
2007-04-16, 09:57 PM
Well EE, here ya go, tell me what you think. Words are to come tommorow and weds... and the types of words are open to change if anyone can think of something better....feel free to give imput, i hope its not to bad

You edited the first page right? Let me check
from,
EE
Edit: The only think i found the part about him becoming and outsider, and quite franky i think it is

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

The asendence into the most pure artistic form, a living being of pure creativity and beuty, love it. Or if you have an evil guy, a living creature form of hatred and loathing, given its own beuty, at the expence of others.
When you rewrite it, can you just post the hard things, i have trouble finding edits
I came up with a new idea, so sorry for work, but couldn't at a higher level, the calligrapher manage to heal his companends by imagining them pure and using his magic to make it so. It would not be as good as ink slash of course, but it could work as some minor healing, give this class more party flavor
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-16, 10:14 PM
as i have it written so far the different levels of the words go something like this

Substance: Things like rocks, wood, vines, paper, ink, etc
Form: Things like size, so large or tiny, or bolt, circle, box, as well as texture like spiked(which would do damaged) tired for climbing
Construction: Things like Wall, Bridge, Roof. Also such as weapons so sword or spear. other things would include river basin and other enviromental affects
Elemental: This will be the most ephermeral of the words, and will produce effects such as fire damage or healing. So words like Fire or positive energy.

so a "sentence" would be large wooden bridge or large river bed filled with liquid ice.

EvilElitest
2007-04-16, 10:32 PM
as i have it written so far the different levels of the words go something like this

Substance: Things like rocks, wood, vines, paper, ink, etc
Form: Things like size, so large or tiny, or bolt, circle, box, as well as texture like spiked(which would do damaged) tired for climbing
Construction: Things like Wall, Bridge, Roof. Also such as weapons so sword or spear. other things would include river basin and other enviromental affects
Elemental: This will be the most ephermeral of the words, and will produce effects such as fire damage or healing. So words like Fire or positive energy.

so a "sentence" would be large wooden bridge or large river bed filled with liquid ice.

I'll get back to you tommorow, when i've sleep, but until then, looks nice, thinkg about my healing idea kay?
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-16, 10:42 PM
sure will, i really think we should make a thread for base class buidling....get a couple other people signed up and maybe get some more interesting and creative idea's beaten out of the collective brain power of the Forum

EvilElitest
2007-04-17, 07:41 PM
sure will, i really think we should make a thread for base class buidling....get a couple other people signed up and maybe get some more interesting and creative idea's beaten out of the collective brain power of the Forum

Sounds good, PM me, we could start a orginazation

To note your abilties
as i have it written so far the different levels of the words go something like this


Substance: Things like rocks, wood, vines, paper, ink, etc
Form: Things like size, so large or tiny, or bolt, circle, box, as well as texture like spiked(which would do damaged) tired for climbing
Construction: Things like Wall, Bridge, Roof. Also such as weapons so sword or spear. other things would include river basin and other enviromental affects
Elemental: This will be the most ephermeral of the words, and will produce effects such as fire damage or healing. So words like Fire or positive energy.

so a "sentence" would be large wooden bridge or large river bed filled with liquid ice.
Sounds good, only question is how many words per sentence. I can imagine a hell of a lot of creativity going on with casting spells, requres quick and intellegent thinking
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-04-17, 08:00 PM
remember that the longer the sentence the longer the casting time and the more ink you must use, so there is a balane....i wil lhave some words up soon i hope....like tonight if i don't get pre occupied with my warlock project and the twilight knight

EvilElitest
2007-04-17, 08:32 PM
remember that the longer the sentence the longer the casting time and the more ink you must use, so there is a balane....i wil lhave some words up soon i hope....like tonight if i don't get pre occupied with my warlock project and the twilight knight

I'll check the warlock thing out right now, i only ment about how many ink points per word, but i'll just wait for you
from,
EE