Ranger Assurance

[Darksidebro]

Hello all, I'm currently playing a Level 5 Hunter Ranger choosing Horde Breaker.

I've taken the Crossbow Expert feat and fight with a Warpick and an Offhand Hand Crossbow.

So my current Attack Sequence is 2 Warpick Attacks (Extra Attack), Hand Crossbow attack (Xbow Expert), Extra Horde Breaker attack (If Applicable, choosing to shoot the Xbow or Swing the Warpick as needed)

Is this all correct? I chose ranger knowing they were Sub-Optimal, as the rest of my group is new to d&d and I didn't want to outshine them, but it seems I'm out damaging them, especially when Hunters Mark and Spike Growth gets thrown into the mix.

Just wanted to make sure Im not doing anything wrong.

Also, the Wording of Horde Breaker suggests that if I hit with a ranged attack, I may make an additional attack against a target within 5 feet of the original attack, does this still apply to ranged attacks? My group thinks it does, as the wording specifies hitting with "an attack"
Again, just making sure.

Thank you in advance for all your help!

[Strill]

Is this all correct? I chose ranger knowing they were Sub-Optimal

I don't know where all this nonsense about rangers being sub-optimal came from, but it's all lies. Rangers are perfectly fine from a combat optimization standpoint. The reason people complain about them is that their out-of-combat abilities are boring or mediocre. Stuff like Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer can often be completely irrelevant if the DM doesn't include the rules for travel times. The Beast Master archetype is considered weak, not because it's weak in combat, but because the rules for it are contrived, and the perks you get from it are focused on allowing you to control the beast like a normal character, which most people think you should be able to do from the start. Likewise Foe Slayer is the absolute most underwhelming level 20 ability of any class.


Also, the Wording of Horde Breaker suggests that if I hit with a ranged attack, I may make an additional attack against a target within 5 feet of the original attack, does this still apply to ranged attacks? My group thinks it does, as the wording specifies hitting with "an attack"
Again, just making sure.
It says "weapon attack". That includes both ranged and melee weapons. Yes you're right.

[Draken]

Hello all, I'm currently playing a Level 5 Hunter Ranger choosing Horde Breaker.

I've taken the Crossbow Expert feat and fight with a Warpick and an Offhand Hand Crossbow.

So my current Attack Sequence is 2 Warpick Attacks (Extra Attack), Hand Crossbow attack (Xbow Expert), Extra Horde Breaker attack (If Applicable, choosing to shoot the Xbow or Swing the Warpick as needed)

Is this all correct? I chose ranger knowing they were Sub-Optimal, as the rest of my group is new to d&d and I didn't want to outshine them, but it seems I'm out damaging them, especially when Hunters Mark and Spike Growth gets thrown into the mix.

Just wanted to make sure Im not doing anything wrong.

Also, the Wording of Horde Breaker suggests that if I hit with a ranged attack, I may make an additional attack against a target within 5 feet of the original attack, does this still apply to ranged attacks? My group thinks it does, as the wording specifies hitting with "an attack"
Again, just making sure.

Thank you in advance for all your help!

If you are triggering horde breaker with any sort of reliability, you will outdamage fighters and rogues pretty easily.

Also, Horde Breaker triggers on any attack, so you should be doubling up your pickstrikes too, if you are facing adjacent enemies.

That said, the only possible issue I can see is that if you are ever using Hunter's Mark and Spike Growth at once... Well, you shouldn't. Both spells demand concentration.

[Easy_Lee]

All looks correct to me. Rangers peak early when built properly, and only start to drop off in later levels when everyone gets their crazy stuff. Good job building your character, I think you picked some great options.

What fighting style did you take?

[MadBear]

Is this all correct? I chose ranger knowing they were Sub-Optimal, as the rest of my group is new to d&d and I didn't want to outshine them, but it seems I'm out damaging them, especially when Hunters Mark and Spike Growth gets thrown into the mix.


The only danger you're in is that you've picked a class that is really strong early game, and so if you know what your doing and the rest of the party doesn't, then you will outshine them in combat. The degree to which you outshine them is much smaller then it was in 3.X, where you could make characters irrelevant, but you will probably be the best damage dealer in your party with that build.

[Darksidebro]

Thank you all for the replies, you've been very helpful.

Easy-Lee - I chose Archery Style, as no other style complimented the Xbow offhand fighting I was doing, and my Dexterity isn't as high as I'd liked it to be, so ranged attacks needed a boost.

Draken - It didn't even occur to me that I should be doubling Pick strikes. Does that mean if I hit with both Pick Strikes, as well as my Xbow attack that turn, I'd get 3 extra attacks? (Provided they were foolish enough to group up)

[Darksidebro]

The only danger you're in is that you've picked a class that is really strong early game, and so if you know what your doing and the rest of the party doesn't, then you will outshine them in combat. The degree to which you outshine them is much smaller then it was in 3.X, where you could make characters irrelevant, but you will probably be the best damage dealer in your party with that build.

Yes I'm consistently dealing more damage than the rest of the party. Sometimes twice as much.
The other party members are an Arcane Trickster and Open Hand Monk.
The Rogue can do some decent damage while sneak attacking, but always forgets his spells. The Monk does alright though.

[Wolfsraine]

Thank you all for the replies, you've been very helpful.

Easy-Lee - I chose Archery Style, as no other style complimented the Xbow offhand fighting I was doing, and my Dexterity isn't as high as I'd liked it to be, so ranged attacks needed a boost.

Draken - It didn't even occur to me that I should be doubling Pick strikes. Does that mean if I hit with both Pick Strikes, as well as my Xbow attack that turn, I'd get 3 extra attacks? (Provided they were foolish enough to group up)

Hordebreaker says once on each of your turns. So I'm pretty sure you can only get the extra attack once on your turn. However, if someone were to trigger and attack of opportunity from you and you met the requirements of hordebreaker, you would be able to get an extra attack. Since it's once per turn and not once per round.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. As I am currently playing a ranger as well lol.

[Strill]

Hordebreaker says once on each of your turns. So I'm pretty sure you can only get the extra attack once on your turn. However, if someone were to trigger and attack of opportunity from you and you met the requirements of hordebreaker, you would be able to get an extra attack. Since it's once per turn and not once per round.

That's not correct. It says once on each of YOUR turns.

[Draken]

Thank you all for the replies, you've been very helpful.

Easy-Lee - I chose Archery Style, as no other style complimented the Xbow offhand fighting I was doing, and my Dexterity isn't as high as I'd liked it to be, so ranged attacks needed a boost.

Draken - It didn't even occur to me that I should be doubling Pick strikes. Does that mean if I hit with both Pick Strikes, as well as my Xbow attack that turn, I'd get 3 extra attacks? (Provided they were foolish enough to group up)


Hordebreaker says once on each of your turns. So I'm pretty sure you can only get the extra attack once on your turn. However, if someone were to trigger and attack of opportunity from you and you met the requirements of hordebreaker, you would be able to get an extra attack. Since it's once per turn and not once per round.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. As I am currently playing a ranger as well lol.

Does say once, indeed!

I misread it pretty hard. Nonetheless, pretty efficient.

[Grand Warchief]

Keep in mind the economy of actions with your ranger. Casting hunters mark is a bonus action, as is transferring it to a new target if that one dies. It also requires concentration. Spiked growth requires an action, and concentration. Which means unless someone else casts it, you lose hunters mark. Also, the extra attack from crossbow expert requires a bonus action. If you are doing most of these in the same round, I'm not surprised you are outshining your other players because you are breaking the economy.

Example fight sequence -
Turn 1: cast hunters mark, attack, no crossbow expert
Turn 2: attack, crossbow expert, target dies
Turn 3: switch hunters mark to new target, attack, no crossbow expert
Turn 4: attack, crossbow expert, target dies

See what I mean? you only get one bonus action so you have to be careful what you use it on. And if you cast spiked growth, no more hunters mark.

[Yagyujubei]

All looks correct to me. Rangers peak early when built properly, and only start to drop off in later levels when everyone gets their crazy stuff. Good job building your character, I think you picked some great options.

What fighting style did you take?

QFT. ranger can be a MONSTER at early/mid levels, but falls off a bit once other people are getting their endgame class features/spells. a guy in my group went colossus slayer, and hitting for 3d8+1d6+8 at level 5 is pretty darned good.

on a side note thought our DM lets collossus slayer proc more than once per turn (on different targets) so it's a bit stronger, but yeah.

[Wolfsraine]

QFT. ranger can be a MONSTER at early/mid levels, but falls off a bit once other people are getting their endgame class features/spells. a guy in my group went colossus slayer, and hitting for 3d8+1d6+8 at level 5 is pretty darned good.

on a side note thought our DM lets collossus slayer proc more than once per turn (on different targets) so it's a bit stronger, but yeah.

Curious, how your ranger is doing 3d8 +8? I'm currently a ranger as well and with a longbow and colossus slayer and a 20 dex I do 2d8+5. If I can squeeze another d8 and +3, i'd love to hear how.

[Yagyujubei]

Curious, how your ranger is doing 3d8 +8? I'm currently a ranger as well and with a longbow and colossus slayer and a 20 dex I do 2d8+5. If I can squeeze another d8 and +3, i'd love to hear how.

you get an extra attack at lvl 5, so 2d8+8 from attacks (had +4 DEX mod at the time), 1d8 from colossus slayer, 1d6 from hunters mark.

since our DM house rules colossus slayer to work one PER TARGET, now he almost always attacks two targets each time, and since were lvl 9 he has 20 DEX and hunters mark does 1d8 instead of 1d6. doing 3d8+5 to two different targets is pretty great, but I can edge him out as my monk if i land all my hits with hex up.

[Darksidebro]

Keep in mind the economy of actions with your ranger. Casting hunters mark is a bonus action, as is transferring it to a new target if that one dies. It also requires concentration. Spiked growth requires an action, and concentration. Which means unless someone else casts it, you lose hunters mark. Also, the extra attack from crossbow expert requires a bonus action. If you are doing most of these in the same round, I'm not surprised you are outshining your other players because you are breaking the economy.

Example fight sequence -
Turn 1: cast hunters mark, attack, no crossbow expert
Turn 2: attack, crossbow expert, target dies
Turn 3: switch hunters mark to new target, attack, no crossbow expert
Turn 4: attack, crossbow expert, target dies

See what I mean? you only get one bonus action so you have to be careful what you use it on. And if you cast spiked growth, no more hunters mark.

I should've elaborated more on what I meant by that, that was my bad. I meant that I was outdistancing my Group in damage even before I start using Hunter's Mark or Spike growth, not both at the same time.

[Rfkannen]

Seems decent enough. How you planeing to go from there? I have heard a lot of people recommend multiclassing at high levels (the capstone is kind of useless) so you think you will multiclass or single class?

Personally I think that ranger 20 is strong enough because you get swiftquiver, but some disagree.

What you thinking of doing?

what would others recomend doing?

[Darksidebro]

Seems decent enough. How you planeing to go from there? I have heard a lot of people recommend multiclassing at high levels (the capstone is kind of useless) so you think you will multiclass or single class?

Personally I think that ranger 20 is strong enough because you get swiftquiver, but some disagree.

What you thinking of doing?

what would others recomend doing?

I'm planning to multiclass into Abjuration Wizard as my Sixth level, as anything past Ranger5 is either redundant or kinda meh (in my opinion)

And my group could use a few buffs and Wizard spells like Fly or Leomond's Tiny hut. Utility stuff like that. And it's nice to still be able to do some stuff even if disarmed or imprisoned or some nonsense like that.