Satyrs of the Sewers

[Afgncaap5]

So, I recently ran an encounter featuring a Satyr who had Pipes of the Sewers, and at one point during the fight when he was more or less out of reach he started using the pipes to call forth some rats to do his bidding. When telling someone about it later, they asked why I didn't have the Satyr also fight while playing. This led to a long discussion and in-depth research about music, bardic music, and magical music.

Is there any place that lists what kind of action is required for different musical instruments? Bardic music sort of has this, but... pipes of the sewers aren't exactly using Bardic Music by RAW (though I'd be willing to let a Bard treat magical instruments like that as bardic music effects, I think.)

Ultimately, it doesn't make sense most of the time, I think. I don't think a human rogue could swing a sword while maintaining the rat-controlling tune, nor could an elvish archer keep the effect going between firing at enemies. ...on the other hand, the image of a Satyr dancing while playing, and of lowering its head to ram someone almost feels like it has a sort of synergy to it. So... whattaya think?

[GilesTheCleric]

Using a skill (eg. perform) is typically a standard action, unless otherwise denoted. Activating magic items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#usingItems) is also typically a standard. Maintaining concentration, such as on a spell, is typically a standard action. Do note that things can change in combat -- trying to use diplomacy in combat takes ten full rounds, but it can be rushed as a full-round action.

It seems that the SRD doesn't have a duration listed for perform (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm), but it's probably safe to assume 1 std action minimum.

SRD: spells duration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm)
Skills (time and skill checks) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm)

[Afgncaap5]

Using a skill (eg. perform) is typically a standard action, unless otherwise denoted. Activating magic items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#usingItems) is also typically a standard. Maintaining concentration, such as on a spell, is typically a standard action. Do note that things can change in combat -- trying to use diplomacy in combat takes ten full rounds, but it can be rushed as a full-round action.

It seems that the SRD doesn't have a duration listed for perform (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm), but it's probably safe to assume 1 std action minimum.

SRD: spells duration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm)
Skills (time and skill checks) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm)

Good, thanks. I'm glad I wasn't just missing something.

Perform action types might also change depending on the instrument, realistically. I'd go with standard for most, I think, but might change for others. (Might make Harmonica a free action if the player has both hands free and a BAB of +1 or higher.)

[GilesTheCleric]

Making different instruments different actually seems like a great idea -- if they can have different activation times, why not other varying stats? Eg. a trombone can be heard farther away than pan pipes, but it's not as suited to rousing performances and so gives 1 less dice to things like attack or movement. If nobody has made a musical instrument subsystem brew, that could be fun to do. What's that fantasy series where music/singing is the source of magical power? There's probably a few.

Let us know if how it works out if you implement different perform durations, please?

[atemu1234]

Making different instruments different actually seems like a great idea -- if they can have different activation times, why not other varying stats? Eg. a trombone can be heard farther away than pan pipes, but it's not as suited to rousing performances and so gives 1 less dice to things like attack or movement. If nobody has made a musical instrument subsystem brew, that could be fun to do. What's that fantasy series where music/singing is the source of magical power? There's probably a few.

Let us know if how it works out if you implement different perform durations, please?

Maybe this should be brought up in the Homebrew forums.

[Fizban]

Well pan pipes require at least one hand and your mouth to play so archery is quite right out. Bardic music is quite clear that most of the time continuing the song is a non-action. Pipes of the Sewers don't mention concentration nor do the spells in it's crafting requirements. I can assure you that actual skilled musicians can totally just keep on jamming while doing something else, there's really no "action" for making music any more than there is for talking. Marching band is hard but that's because marching while playing a wind instrument is hard, not because of concentration. The real question is what it means by "proper tune": playing freeform in between sword strikes to continue bardic music is legit, but playing a specific song without missing a beat while fighting would be. . . difficult. Voice and hands are used independently but I'd expect you'd need serious ambidexterity to fight using one hand without missing a beat on the other.

Complete Adventurer does have bardic music adjustments for quite a few different types of instrument if that's what you're looking for, useful without a serious power boost. Song and Silence (the 3.0 book) has some more, but they're more dramatic in scope. None of them mention actions because music is either a free action (the same as talking) or part of another action (like a verbal spell component).