Best Thrown Weapons?

[Firechanter]

Hey gang,

since I'm just statting out a singleclassed Warblade, and Warblades don't come with Bow proficiencies, I'd like to assess my options for times when I need to fight at range.

Okay, one option would be to invest in Lesser Bracers of Archery and use a Mighty Composite Longbow. Great range, but total cost does cut into my WBL rather significantly (5000 for Bracers plus whatever the Bow costs). Also, I'd probably use different bracers by default and would have to swap gear for ranged combat.

So I'd like to look at Thrown Weapons.
Is there a Martial (or Simple) Thrown Weapon that beats the Javelin? Especially in terms of Range.

One Javelin +1 with a Crystal of Least Return would at least allow me to get off one throw per round. Nothing great, but better than nothing when I can't get in melee range immediately.

But I'm open for better ideas. ^^

[bjoern]

I like the gloves of endless javelins. Just start chuckin like nades in a halo game.

[Rubik]

Believe it or not, my favorite ranged weapon is the unarmed strike.

Invest in as many ways to enhance your unarmed strike as possible, and make sure you have Throwing and Distance on there, along with Far Shot (horizon goggles!) and other distance-increasing effects. Then throw your unarmed strike, which, since your entire body counts (what with headbutts, fists, forearms, elbows, knees, shins, feet, and so on), is your entire body. Hurl yourself through the air. And since it's so very easy to apply a ton of effects to your unarmed strike, you'll get a LOT of mileage out of your WBL. It's also, essentially, flight. Add Exit Wounds to burst through enemies like the Kool-Aid Man.

Example of a build that uses this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863

A level or two in monk will increase your options considerably, however, since you can cast spells and use other effects on yourself that normally can only be used on objects.

After unarmed strike come the composite longbow (best martial ranged weapon in the game) and the harpoon.

[Firechanter]

Well, I don't think such shenanigans as "Thrown Unarmed Strike" would fly in our group, as that build you posted reeks of piles of stinky cheese, while our group is a strictly no-fermented-dairy-environment, no offense intended.

Also, I repeat, I don't want to _specialize_ in Thrown, I'd just like to have a backup that works without too much investment. Certainly no feat investments (I'm feat-starved enough with my main schtick), and any monetary investment necessary for thrown weapons should be cheaper than Lesser Bracers of Archery.

[AnonymousPepper]

I like the gloves of endless javelins. Just start chuckin like nades in a halo game.

Agreed with this.

You're getting basically free unlimited +3 weapons (+1 Force Javelins) for the price of a +1. These particular weapons negate all DR and hit incorporeal targets perfectly.

You can make a case for making the thing enchantable further, too.

[Eloel]

Combining that with the Stormlord PrC from Complete Divine is so much fun.

[AnonymousPepper]

Combining that with the Stormlord PrC from Complete Divine is so much fun.

Oooh, that's nifty. Shame about having to be CE - or at least LE/CN - and shame about Talos kinda being an a-hole in general; his clerics are supposed to spread wanton destruction wherever they go. Kinda narrows it out of a lot of games.

[Seharvepernfan]

Carry a net or two. Even if you are non-proficient, it's still a touch attack, and a netted opponent is quite a bit easier to beat and catch up to in melee. Likewise with Bolas for ranged tripping.

You can't beat a javelin. Spears do more damage, but are two-handed and have shorter range. Tridents deal more damage, but only have a 10ft range. Throwing Axes/Hammers are for off-hand attacks or enemies vulnerable to S/B damage types. Slings have better range with slightly worse damage, but can only be fired once a round (no quick draw), and require both hands to reload. Monk weapons are useless for non-rogues. I personally like shortspears for their versatility; melee one-handed weapon that can be used two-handed or thrown, with only slightly worse range than a javelin, but if you wear a spiked gauntlet, their benefit is greatly reduced, and you should always be wearing a spiked gauntlet. Darts are for TWF rogues.

Consider getting quick-draw at higher levels so you can use left-over iterative attacks when you kill everything you threaten with your melee weapon.

Javelins are cheap, fairly light, have good damage/range, and allow the use of a shield or off-hand weapon.

Ask your DM if using a spear as a thrown weapon would still let you have Str x1.5 damage.

[Firechanter]

Okay thanks for the tips. ^^ So, Javelins and a couple of nets sound like the way to go for the time being, and then that Glove of Endless Javelins later on when I can afford it.

The game is just planned to go to level 10 or so, so no need to plan for high level content.

Oh, any suggestions for a choice of splash / area attacks, like those cases when you're attacked by a pesky swarm? Anything more efficient than Alchemist Fire?
(And no Aboleth Mucus, by Gentlemen's Agreement. We don't want our PCs soaked in the stuff so we better not toss it around ourselves.)

[Seharvepernfan]

Well, you could get one-use use-activated items of fireball or something, for swarms. Like a necklace of fireballs. Nothing in the PHB item section is better than alchemists fire/acid though.

[Curmudgeon]

Then throw your unarmed strike, which, since your entire body counts (what with headbutts, fists, forearms, elbows, knees, shins, feet, and so on), is your entire body. Hurl yourself through the air.
You're over-reaching. Only the external striking surfaces of your body are used for attacks. If you want to throw those and leave your heart, liver, lungs, spleen, and all other non-striking parts behind, go ahead.

[Eloel]

You're over-reaching. Only the external striking surfaces of your body are used for attacks. If you want to throw those and leave your heart, liver, lungs, spleen, and all other non-striking parts behind, go ahead.

Only the tip of a spear damages things, that doesn't mean you don't throw the hilt with it.

[Troacctid]

You're over-reaching. Only the external striking surfaces of your body are used for attacks. If you want to throw those and leave your heart, liver, lungs, spleen, and all other non-striking parts behind, go ahead.

Also, being able to strike with any part of your body is not the same as being able to strike with every part of your body simultaneously. And I'm AFB, but I'm pretty sure there's a rule that says the attacker doesn't leave their square to attack.

[Rubik]

Only the tip of a spear damages things, that doesn't mean you don't throw the hilt with it.And hey, if they don't want to be able to ranged-punch things with a fistful of awesomesauce, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3swylpHp8gs) that's their own loss.

[Coidzor]

I believe it goes Javelin > Orcish Shotput(mainly for the 2d6 damage) > Halfling Skip-Rock(because who doesn't like getting a second attack in?) > Dagger > Any other thrown weapon that can be used as a melee weapon without penalty > all other thrown weapons > Shuriken.

Bolas, Lassos, and Nets get an honorable mention for applying a decent debuff that can allow for closing with an opponent, but lassos and nets have too many limitations on their range even compared to other thrown weapons, IIRC.

[ben-zayb]

I believe Shuriken is a niche case for those who can exploit cheap enhancements. Might even make a case for Riverine or Aurorum shurikens.

[DrKerosene]

As an option for move-action range, the spell Blood Wind from SpC allows you to make melee attacks at range.

I've been imagining combining this with Setting Sun maneuvers to create a "poltergeist".

[PaucaTerrorem]

Isn't Wolverine the best thrown weapon. He is the best at what he does. Therefore throwing him as a weapon makes him the best thrown weapon.

[Rubik]

Isn't Wolverine the best thrown weapon. He is the best at what he does. Therefore throwing him as a weapon makes him the best thrown weapon.Chakrams are the best throwing weapons. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-eDSt8OHkx0#t=777)

[Vizzerdrix]

No love for Cabers, harpoons and other party members?

[Seharvepernfan]

Shuriken are fantastic! ...if you're a rogue with a level of monk. They count as ammunition, meaning a MW shuriken is 7gp, not 301gp or whatever, and you get x50 when you make magic ones, it also means you don't need quick-draw to "reload". Being thrown weapons, you can TWF with them, and also flurry of blows. So, especially for a halfling rogue, shurikens are amazing.

[Firechanter]

No love for Cabers, harpoons and other party members?

Actually, another player will probably roll a Whisper Gnome, and we have briefly contemplated having my char toss him around... but the DM put the kibosh on that. He does want a relaxed fun game, but not a burlesque. xD

BTW, our party will be remarkably spell-deprived. Current plans indicate a Factotum, a Rgr/Clr (-2CL), a Psi-Gish (-3ML) and my Warblade. So at starting level 5 we'll only have level 2 Cleric spells and level 1 Psi powers. It will take until level 7 to unlock the respective next spell/power level.
(I hope to be able to talk the Psi-player into reorienting his character a bit more towards the Caster side.)

The only actual Ranged character will be the Rgr/Clr, and he's not optimized for damage. Due to the harshly reduced CLs, it will be a long time before we get any Flight worth mentioning. So basically any encounter that we can't force into melee range quickly will cause us a hard time.

[Coidzor]

No love for Cabers, harpoons and other party members?

Cabers are in that weird place where they're Faerunian setting material that's 3.0 specific and much like lassos and nets, they don't actually do damage so much as knock people prone with a reflex save instead of a trip check, right? Granted, it's an AoE, so there's that going for it if it can get approved.

Harpoons were already covered, I thought, but I suppose I did leave them out of the hierarchy.

Party members are the worst because you have to have a feat to do it at all after Fling Ally was published.

[Lathund]

I believe Shuriken is a niche case for those who can exploit cheap enhancements. Might even make a case for Riverine or Aurorum shurikens.


Shuriken are fantastic! ...if you're a rogue with a level of monk. They count as ammunition, meaning a MW shuriken is 7gp, not 301gp or whatever, and you get x50 when you make magic ones, it also means you don't need quick-draw to "reload". Being thrown weapons, you can TWF with them, and also flurry of blows. So, especially for a halfling rogue, shurikens are amazing.

Or when you have a DFI bard in your party. Hello extra d6's on each and every shuriken.

We have such a bard in our party and the DM just allowed him to take Leadership. He's considering to take a Master Thrower cohort, who should be able to throw several handfulls of shurikens each round.

At our level:
- 2-3 attacks from BAB
- 1 attack from Haste
- 1-3 attacks from (Greater/Improved) Two-Weapon fighting, depending on how many feats he has available
- 1 attack from Rapid Shot
And then all of that is doubled by one of the Master Thrower's tricks for, say, 10-16 shurikens a round or more. Add DFI, Inspire Courage, Flame Arrow and Greater Magic Weapon and things are going to get fun.