3.x Weapon Conversion

[jkat718]

Similar to this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?404936-Converting-2nd-and-3-5th-Edition-Monsters-to-5th-Edition) thread, I was wondering whether any quick-and-easy rule of thumb exists for converting equipment from 3.x to 5e. For example, how does expanded crit range convert? When does a weapon get Finesse? Light/Heavy? Any and all help is appreciated.

[themaque]

Well expanded Crit range doesn't convert. That's the domain of the Champion and since it means Instant Hits I don't see that being a weapon quality anymore.

[Giant2005]

You just pick the weapon from the PHB that it is closest to and give it the exact same properties and damage.

[Mandragola]

I think the principle is to just have your 3.x weapon count as something out of the 5th edition book.

Honestly I like how there aren't exotic weapons any more. A sword you hold in one hand is a longsword, scimitar, rapier or shortsword. A big sword is a greatsword. There are lots of designs of those things but they are all basically sharp things, within various categories of weight and length.

[mephnick]

I think it's really best to just forget converting anything from 3.5 and starting new. Like I could try and convert my warblade's +2 magebane keen halberd, but I can't use keen without stomping on the champion. Despite what the DMG says, +'s have no place on weapons or armour in 5e, and magebane is probably too strong for the level I'd be.

So I'd probably just give myself a halberd and have to start from scratch making it magical. In terms of mundane equipment, I'd just pick whatever base thing in the PHB is closest. I feel like people are going to have a bad time if they expect to be able to port their 3.5 stuff over easily.

[Spacehamster]

Well for example this is how I would stat the katana: martial weapon, two handed, finesse and 1d10 slashing damage.

[mephnick]

I think the katana would just have longsword stats. There's nothing inherently "finesse" about them, despite what anime tells us.

Also I feel like larger damage, two handed finesse weapons are a slippery slope for precision attack characters.

[Spacehamster]

I think the katana would just have longsword stats. There's nothing inherently "finesse" about them, despite what anime tells us.

Also I feel like larger damage, two handed finesse weapons are a slippery slope for precision attack characters.

Matter of opinion I guess, how is a on average 1 more damage compared to the d8 of a rapier a slippery slope tho? Especially when made a martial weapon you would either have to take a feat to get it as a rogue or multiclass? Kinda steep price for a 1 damage increase. :)

At least as I see it Its within the power of the other weapons and if you want to sneak attack with it you have to pay a price of feat or mc. So would not break anything would mostly just be flavor. :3

Off topic damn this made me want to make a rooftop ninja battlemaster 6 barbarian 2 assassin 12. Just wear black clothes(unarmored) your trusty katana, put expertise in stealth, acrobatics, athletics and deception, pick skulker feat and go wild. :D

[campskully]

I think that the expanded Crit range could be converted as long as its presented as a Crit range of +X. This way, the champion gets an even higher chance of criting with the weapons but other classes are just moving beyond 20.

Do you guys think it would be better for an expanded Crit range from a weapon to only offer Crit threat again or would it be fair to have them auto hit as well? The numbers woul have to be small so a non champ would insta Crit on 19 or just have a chance for double dice on 19? It's not like many classes could miss a 19 anyway

[themaque]

I think that the expanded Crit range could be converted as long as its presented as a Crit range of +X. This way, the champion gets an even higher chance of criting with the weapons but other classes are just moving beyond 20.

Do you guys think it would be better for an expanded Crit range from a weapon to only offer Crit threat again or would it be fair to have them auto hit as well? The numbers woul have to be small so a non champ would insta Crit on 19 or just have a chance for double dice on 19? It's not like many classes could miss a 19 anyway

I wouldn't even bother with it, but that's just me. -shrugs- I would keep that in the champion.

[jkat718]

To clarify: I know that expanding crit range in 5e is a bad idea. I was just wondering what the equivalent trait would be.

[mephnick]

I don't think there is one, is the problem.

I'd just take the same weapon and remove the crit range.

[Giant2005]

To clarify: I know that expanding crit range in 5e is a bad idea. I was just wondering what the equivalent trait would be.

There is no equivalent trait - weapons don't cover critical damage at all. The Rapier lost its 18-20 crit range and received nothing special in return, just the same as the Halberd lost its x3 crit multiplier and received nothing special in return.

[jkat718]

Oh, okay then. That's…a little strange. I just wanted to give my players the option to use the old weapon sources in my campaign, and wasn't sure how to implement it. What about when to apply Light/Heavy and Finesse? How are those traits assigned?

[Giant2005]

Oh, okay then. That's…a little strange. I just wanted to give my players the option to use the old weapon sources in my campaign, and wasn't sure how to implement it. What about when to apply Light/Heavy and Finesse? How are those traits assigned?

There aren't really any rules for that. If you don't want to just pick the closest weapon on the table to whatever you want and use its stats, you are just going to have to use your best judgment.
If you want help from the forums, you will have to be more specific and list what weapons you want to try and convert - I doubt anyone would be willing to convert every weapon in the books for you.

[Slipperychicken]

Well expanded Crit range doesn't convert. That's the domain of the Champion and since it means Instant Hits I don't see that being a weapon quality anymore.

Not quite. Only natural 20s are automatic hits with attacks, even if a character's crit range is greater than that (i.e. 19-20 or 17-20). It was the same way in 3.X. So if a 3rd level champion fighter (crit range 19-20) attacks and rolls a natural 19, but his total is still somehow not enough to hit the target's AC, then he misses as normal. It is admittedly a corner case (as natural 18s and 19s will typically be enough to hit regardless), but it's possible.


Also, rules quote for the skeptical:


Sometimes fate blesses or curses a combatant, causing
the novice to hit and the veteran to miss.
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits
regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. In
addition, the attack is a critical hit, as explained later
in this chapter.

Much like it was in 3.X, the automatic hit of a natural 20 and the critical hit trigger are separate. I think it's intended to keep expanded crit ranges from being too strong.

[Draken]

Oh, okay then. That's…a little strange. I just wanted to give my players the option to use the old weapon sources in my campaign, and wasn't sure how to implement it. What about when to apply Light/Heavy and Finesse? How are those traits assigned?

You can always just add extra abilities to the weapons. Just remember that it is above and beyond the design of the authors, for the most part.

Not that weapons with special abilities don't exist. They are just not in the PHB. MM, for instance, has the Harpoon (Merrow entry) and Pincer Staff (Kuo-toa) as interesting weapons with special abilities.

[themaque]

Also, rules quote for the skeptical:

Much like it was in 3.X, the automatic hit of a natural 20 and the critical hit trigger are separate. I think it's intended to keep expanded crit ranges from being too strong.

Ah... I might have been mistake. I'll check it out when I get home but... well go with what this guy says. My mistake.

[T.G. Oskar]

The closest thing to "expanded" crit range is really the Sword of Sharpness, and it doesn't actually expand critical threat range (as mentioned many times, it's the domain of the Champion Fighter archetype) rather than adds extra damage (as AD&D Swords of Sharpness, I believe). You could turn a +2 magebane keen halberd into its own unique weapon, a weapon that grants +1 to attack and damage, has the property of sharpness, but is much better when facing enemies that cast arcane spells or have Innate Spellcasting similar to that of an arcane class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard).

Finesse is pretty specific - the weapon must be one that would fit a fencing technique, barring spears. Perhaps later on we might see a spear or polearm with the Finesse trait, but not now. That is a reason why shortswords and rapiers have Finesse, but a few other weapons that traditionally could no longer do. Same with Light - those are usually small weapons that you could reliably see as off-hand weapons. Barring the Scimitar, most of the weapons traditionally work as off-hand weapons, such as a dagger or shortsword. Conversely, Heavy weapons are typically two-handed weapons or those with a total weight of 12 lbs. or heavier.

Also - if the Bastard Sword was devoured by the Longsword, and the Katana functionally worked as a "masterwork" Bastard Sword, then it pays to figure that the Katana will work as a Longsword. Please, no "Katanas are underpowered" in 5e; otherwise, I might have a few things to say about a few weapons (*coughcoughMorningstarcoughcough*)

[Morty]

I'm going to second what others have said. The weapons table in 5e is so simplistic that it might as well not exist, so there's no real point in conversion. Just pick whichever existing weapon seems to fit the bill.

As far as finesse goes, I'd personally allow for a two-handed finesse weapon, with a smaller damage dice because dexterity seems more useful overall. But that's because I believe in letting as many options open as possible.

[Vogonjeltz]

Not quite. Only natural 20s are automatic hits with attacks, even if a character's crit range is greater than that (i.e. 19-20 or 17-20). It was the same way in 3.X. So if a 3rd level champion fighter (crit range 19-20) attacks and rolls a natural 19, but his total is still somehow not enough to hit the target's AC, then he misses as normal. It is admittedly a corner case (as natural 18s and 19s will typically be enough to hit regardless), but it's possible.

Critical hits by definition are hits. If you roll a 19 as a 3rd level Champion you hit, always.

This has been confirmed by developers in tweets/blogs. (I'm too lazy to look up and link said tweets/blogs).

[Slipperychicken]

Critical hits by definition are hits. If you roll a 19 as a 3rd level Champion you hit, always.

This has been confirmed by developers in tweets/blogs. (I'm too lazy to look up and link said tweets/blogs).

You're right. I found mearls' tweet here (http://www.sageadvice.eu/?s=critical+hit).

[BootStrapTommy]

I think the katana would just have longsword stats. There's nothing inherently "finesse" about them, despite what anime tells us. The DMG agrees. However, in truth a European longsword is a sharpened club, a heavy, dullish blade which cuts mostly by mass. A katana, similar to a scimitar, is a thin, sharp, light weight blade which cuts mostly by speed. That's not a myth. That's the result of noteable physical differences in construction.

Worth noting that katanas appeared in the Next Play tests as a finesse-ible longsword.

[mephnick]

A katana, like a scimitar, is a thin, sharp, light weight blade which cuts mostly by speed. That's not a myth. That's the result of noteable physical differences in construction.

Eh, curved weapons are used in long sweeping chops, especially the oriental ones. Scimitars were designed to be used from horseback so riders could sweep at opponents without getting their weapons stuck. Nothing about either weapon is precise or fast.

But D&D is about fantasy stereotypes, so I guess it's not a big deal.

[rollingForInit]

Katanas seem about as fast as longswords. Have you seen real pros fight with longswords? Those are "fast" as well. Katanas, iirc, are generally a bit shorter than longswords, but weigh about as much. But then, you could have a longsword exactly the same length, since length and weights vary. A rapier, byt he way, doesn't weigh a whole lot less either. A bit, but not much.

There should be no expanded crit range on normal weapons. And why would there be? Why should, say, a rapier have an easier time doing more damage? Especially against an armored opponent? If anything, the advantage of a rapier is that it usually has a good hand guard, and expanded reach compared to other swords. However ... doing more damage? Nah.

If you want to give something an expanded crit range, make it into a magical weapons. "Weapon of Massive Critical". An rare weapon gets +1 to crit range, a very rare a +2, a legendary a +3. Or something like that.

[Morty]

The DMG agrees. However, in truth a European longsword is a sharpened club, a heavy, dullish blade which cuts mostly by mass. A katana, similar to a scimitar, is a thin, sharp, light weight blade which cuts mostly by speed. That's not a myth. That's the result of noteable physical differences in construction.

Worth noting that katanas appeared in the Next Play tests as a finesse-ible longsword.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but this is hilariously inaccurate. To start with, people overestimate both weight of weapons and how much weight matters in the first place. And it gets worse from there.

There are, of course, differences between a European arming sword - the term "longsword" is more correctly applied to a type of weapon D&D has spent a great deal of effort ignoring for some reason - a Japanese sword generally referred to as katana and a curved sword referred to as scimitar or sabre. But D&D's weapon system has never been granular and realistic enough to properly depict them. 5e simplifies it further. So if you want a katana, just take a longsword, scimitar or rapier and call it such. Problem solved.

As far as finesse is concerned, it's a false dichotomy. A real fighter needs both what falls under D&D's definition of strength and what falls under its definition of dexterity. But the system has always had them choose one or the other, and heavily penalized using dexterity - 5e no longer penalizes it, but the number of weapons that can be used with it is still small.

It's mostly based on misconceptions and the designers' lack of imagination, but at least now it's not that much of an issue. There's no problem using a scimitar or rapier and calling it something else, provided that you want to use it one-handed - it makes no practical difference. If you want to have a character who uses a two-handed weapon while focusing on dexterity rather than strength... well, you're out of luck, barring houserules.

[BootStrapTommy]

Eh, curved weapons are used in long sweeping chops, especially the oriental ones. Scimitars were designed to be used from horseback so riders could sweep at opponents without getting their weapons stuck. Nothing about either weapon is precise or fast.

But D&D is about fantasy stereotypes, so I guess it's not a big deal.
Cavalry swords are definitely more finesseful than double edge swords. Why? Because the horse does all the work. You don't need a super strong swing when you have the momentum of a 500+lb destrier behind your swing. But you need a quick, controlled swing to optimized when you strike.

Furthermore their curve functions much like the angled edge of a boxcutter. At any point in a cut there is a leading edge, which makes the cut of the following edge easier. Meaning less force to get the same result. And less drag to lose energy.



There are, of course, differences between a European arming sword - the term "longsword" is more correctly applied to a type of weapon D&D has spent a great deal of effort ignoring for some reason - a Japanese sword generally referred to as katana and a curved sword referred to as scimitar or sabre. But D&D's weapon system has never been granular and realistic enough to properly depict them. 5e simplifies it further. So if you want a katana, just take a longsword, scimitar or rapier and call it such. Problem solved.
A longsword refers not to an arming sword but the late Medieval weapon which previous D&D versions have referred to as a "bastard sword" (the two names are synonyms), meaning a double-edged hand-and-a-half sword, generally made of steel which effectively functioned as a finely crafted sharpened club which doubles as an impaling device, preferred because of it utility and effectiveness as a can opener. It draws its design from an extrapolation of the common one handed double edged swords made popular by those historical juggernauts known as Vikings.

I agree with stating the katana as a longsword. Just think all weapons which aren't blugeons should have finesse options.

[Submortimer]

I stat a katana like this:

Martial weapon, Finesse, 1d8/1d10 (versatile), slashing.

Finessable longsowrd? Versatile Rapier? Pick one. Either works.

Hell, it still kind boggles my mind that they made the Scimitar a Light, finesse D6 weapon and the rapier a d8. Still feels like it should have been the other way around.