nWoD fansplat: Dragon: the Inheritance

[Almarck]

How much commitment do we have to giant monster fights anyways? Are we like supposed to give Godzilla proper mechanical representation via an expy or something.

Anyways on the note of Hives . We will need to specifically add the Unity rules for that one. And actually explain how Unified Whole works if we want to stat that up but I guess that's not really majorly important.

Since I am not sure how confident I am on working with legacies just yet, immediately still to monuments and merits and then knights and spurned for now.


I am defiantly thinking a Tells mechanic is probably our best bet. Basically each Spurned gets one minor magical boons. First is free and a 2 dot for each one after that.

Knights would be unique in that they have some method to "boost" tells via ritual sorcery. I'm thinking for each tell I'd add in some sort of mechanic that boosts Tells above their normal perimeters and their affects..

Although before we work on hat though we may need some precise terminology.

[One Tin Soldier]

How much commitment do we have to giant monster fights anyways? Are we like supposed to give Godzilla proper mechanical representation via an expy or something.

Anyways on the note of Hives . We will need to specifically add the Unity rules for that one. And actually explain how Unified Whole works if we want to stat that up but I guess that's not really majorly important.

Since I am not sure how confident I am on working with legacies just yet, immediately still to monuments and merits and then knights and spurned for now.


I am defiantly thinking a Tells mechanic is probably our best bet. Basically each Spurned gets one minor magical boons. First is free and a 2 dot for each one after that.

Knights would be unique in that they have some method to "boost" tells via ritual sorcery. I'm thinking for each tell I'd add in some sort of mechanic that boosts Tells above their normal perimeters and their affects..

Although before we work on hat though we may need some precise terminology.

Spurned terminology, you mean?

I feel like the terminology should have a "consolation prize" vibe to it. "Boons" was the first term that came to mind for their "Tells", though I think there is probably a better one out there.

Re: giant monster fights: We have plenty of giant things already, that's what Xallace meant. In this game, there could potentially be multiple Size 20+ monstrosities duking it out. Picture a 3-way battle between the PC dragons, a pair of Garuda, and the bloated oozing mass of a Unified Hive taking place in an empty football stadium in the middle of the night. Or, to add in crossovers, there are Leviathans, Geniuses in giant mecha, and Mummy Voltrons. Possibly all happening at once, for the maximum in crazy monster fight shenanigans.
Ultimate Smackdown: Tokyo SOS

And speaking of Hives, I'll take care of the Unity writeup. We have an abundance of ideas presented here already, I just need to distill them.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Here's a draft at a Fighting Style intended for use in Drakonos about maximising your tail's combat potential (If you have one).

Minor grammatical question. When referring to a Dragon's body, is it called the Drakonos or the Drakonos form?

Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Strength ●, Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Your Drakonos form must have a tail

Effect: Your character is trained in a fighting style that emphasises using claws and tail in a combat situation. Obviously, this is intended to be used while you are in the Drakonos form. You may have learned this as part of your inheritance, or you learned it later on after your tail got in the way one-to-many times or perhaps you just picked it up along the way.

Dots purchased in this Merit allow access to special combat maneuvers. Each maneuver is a prerequisite for the next. So, your character cannot have "Darting Tail Attack" until he has "Snapping Tail". The maneuvers and their effects are described below, most of which are based on the Brawl Skill.

This style makes mention of a "Tail Attack", which is where you attack as if your tail were a Whip (Armoury, damage 0/L), with a range of 4 Feet + Size.

Snapping Tail (●): You have such fine control over your tail that you can send it darting out to attack. You may make a Tail Attack alongside another melee attack, excluding other Scorpion Tail attacks, of course.

Darting Tail Attack (●●): With sudden flicks and movements, your opponent never knows where to expect to defend from. You may make a Tail Attack, subtracting the lower of your Dexterity or Brawl from the target's Defence.

Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, except that you may use Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl, and you gain a bonus equal to your size*, except that you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. Similar to Snapping Tail, this grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions.

*This is meant to represent that you have a lot more tail to work with.

Wide Sweep (●●●●): With a wide blow, you strike multiple opponents. Pick a target. You make a Tail Attack against the target and against a number of adjacent targets, to the left or right pick one, equal to half your Tail Attack's range.

Perfect Strike (●●●●●): Your tail becomes a deadly weapon, striking down opponents effortlessly. Your Tail Attack deals Aggravated Damage (0/A), rather than Lethal. Drawback: Spend one Willpower
point per attack. Note that this Willpower expenditure does not add three dice to the attack. Special: If you are in the Tyranos form, all Tail Attacks are Aggravated without spending Willpower.


Like I said, it's a first draft. Thoughts?

Also, I can totally imagine a Hydra with a snake for a tail using this.

[Amechra]

Snapping Tail is a no; multiple attacks are verboten in GMC/2.0, because they do dreadful things to combat dynamics.*

*To explain: combat in NWOD is balanced around the assumption that you get one attack; by getting an additional attack, you're pretty much doubling your damage output. It just doesn't work, system-wise.

[Xallace]

Minor grammatical question. When referring to a Dragon's body, is it called the Drakonos or the Drakonos form?

Either works, just saying Drakonos is shorter.



Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Strength ●, Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Your Drakonos form must have a tail


The minimum possible Strength is 1, so you can leave out that prerequisite.


Effect: Your character is trained in a fighting style that emphasises using claws and tail in a combat situation. Obviously, this is intended to be used while you are in the Drakonos form. You may have learned this as part of your inheritance, or you learned it later on after your tail got in the way one-to-many times or perhaps you just picked it up along the way.

Dots purchased in this Merit allow access to special combat maneuvers. Each maneuver is a prerequisite for the next. So, your character cannot have "Darting Tail Attack" until he has "Snapping Tail". The maneuvers and their effects are described below, most of which are based on the Brawl Skill.

This style makes mention of a "Tail Attack", which is where you attack as if your tail were a Whip (Armoury, damage 0/L), with a range of 4 Feet + Size.


Things in world of darkness usually have a range in yards, but I don't see much of a problem here. I might suggest the tail does Bashing unless you have a Strength of X or higher.



Snapping Tail (●): You have such fine control over your tail that you can send it darting out to attack. You may make a Tail Attack alongside another melee attack, excluding other Scorpion Tail attacks, of course.

GMC likes to stay away from actually rolling multiple attacks in favor of a couple bonus damage successes. Usually these are constructed something like "after a successful attack, you may spend 1 WP to deal XB damage." I might say you could trade in a Defense penalty instead of a WP, since whipping your tail around leaves you pretty open.



Darting Tail Attack (●●): With sudden flicks and movements, your opponent never knows where to expect to defend from. You may make a Tail Attack, subtracting the lower of your Dexterity or Brawl from the target's Defence.

Neat.



Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, except that you may use Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl, and you gain a bonus equal to your size*, except that you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. Similar to Snapping Tail, this grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions.

*This is meant to represent that you have a lot more tail to work with.


Likewise, perhaps take a Defense penalty to utilize this maneuver, which lets you grapple instead of deal damage.



Wide Sweep (●●●●): With a wide blow, you strike multiple opponents. Pick a target. You make a Tail Attack against the target and against a number of adjacent targets, to the left or right pick one, equal to half your Tail Attack's range.

That's some funky wording there. This is essentially "you can put your tail attack on autofire."



Perfect Strike (●●●●●): Your tail becomes a deadly weapon, striking down opponents effortlessly. Your Tail Attack deals Aggravated Damage (0/A), rather than Lethal. Drawback: Spend one Willpower
point per attack. Note that this Willpower expenditure does not add three dice to the attack. Special: If you are in the Tyranos form, all Tail Attacks are Aggravated without spending Willpower.


That seems fine to me, honestly.

[Almarck]

I'll note that multiple attacks do seem to have one caveat in 2e: There are some fighting styles that allow you to make multiple attacks, but each attack is allocated onto different targets. The up and coming Iajutsu style comes to mind.

So Snapping Tail can be placed on as it is, representing you attacking multiple foes. It's still considered quite powerful at a 1 dot though since Iajutsu requires more conditions and needs more dots.


Oh, that reminds me: Xal, Tin, what are your thoughts on the "Tyranos" thing?

[Sgt. Cookie]

RESPONSES! And responses to those responses.


Either works, just saying Drakonos is shorter.

Cool. Good to know they're interchangeable when I need 'em to be.


The minimum possible Strength is 1, so you can leave out that prerequisite.

Will do.


Things in world of darkness usually have a range in yards, but I don't see much of a problem here.

Whips are actually measured in Feet in Armoury. But you know what I meant so I'll change it.


I might suggest the tail does Bashing unless you have a Strength of X or higher.

My logic on that was "Since a flipping COIN can make a whip deal Lethal damage (instead of Bashing), may as well make a tail deal lethal."


GMC likes to stay away from actually rolling multiple attacks in favor of a couple bonus damage successes. Usually these are constructed something like "after a successful attack, you may spend 1 WP to deal XB damage." I might say you could trade in a Defense penalty instead of a WP, since whipping your tail around leaves you pretty open.

Got it. Direct one-to-one seem OK? Rule of 5 withstanding, of course.


Neat.

Yay! Something I didn't screw up!


Likewise, perhaps take a Defense penalty to utilize this maneuver, which lets you grapple instead of deal damage.

Halved Defence each round you have your target grabbed sound OK?


That's some funky wording there. This is essentially "you can put your tail attack on autofire."

Riiiiight. Knew I should have looked at that.


That seems fine to me, honestly.

Nice. Another thing I did right!

[One Tin Soldier]

Xallace has covered most of the important points, but I have a couple of my own to add.


Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Strength ●, Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Your Drakonos form must have a tail

I'd also make a slight wording change to the requirements: The character must have a tail. There aren't many other WoD creatures that have tails that they could use in combat, but there's no reason to exclude them from taking the merit. Much like the Aerial Combat merit.


Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, except that you may use Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl, and you gain a bonus equal to your size*, except that you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. Similar to Snapping Tail, this grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions.

*This is meant to represent that you have a lot more tail to work with.

Getting Size as a bonus dice is silly. It means getting at minimum +7 to the attack. Bonus size as a bonus, maybe, but even that feels like it can get too out of hand.

Getting Size in extra range in feet sounds alright, though. Since a whip is specified to be 6-10 ft long in Armory, using feet as the scale seems fine too.


Aside from those, and the issues that other people brought up, it seems like a good idea.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Wow. Fast responses.

Anyway, time for the new and improved:

Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Character must have a tail

Effect: Your character is trained in a fighting style that emphasises using claws and tail in a combat situation. Obviously, this is intended to be used while you are in the Drakonos form. You may have learned this as part of your inheritance, or you learned it later on after your tail got in the way one-to-many times or perhaps you just picked it up along the way.

Dots purchased in this Merit allow access to special combat maneuvers. Each maneuver is a prerequisite for the next. So, your character cannot have "Darting Tail Attack" until he has "Snapping Tail". The maneuvers and their effects are described below, most of which are based on the Brawl Skill.

This style makes mention of a "Tail Attack", which is where you attack as if your tail were a Whip (Armoury, damage 0/L), with a range of 4 Feet + Size. A Tail Attack is always Dexterity + Brawl.

Snapping Tail (●): You have such fine control over your tail that you can send it darting out to attack, even when attacking with something else. You may trade Defence for Bonus damage successes, 1-1, to a maxium of your Dexterity.

Darting Tail Attack (●●): With sudden flicks and movements, your opponent never knows where to expect to defend from. You may make a Tail Attack, subtracting the lower of your Dexterity or Brawl from the target's Defence.

Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, except that you may use Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl except that you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. Similar to Snapping Tail, this grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions.
Drawback: While an opponent is grappled in such a manner, your defence is halved.

Wide Sweep (●●●●): With a wide blow, you strike multiple opponents. Pick a target. You make a Tail Attack as if it were a Medium Autofire. You may only attack a number of opponents equal to your Dexerity.

Perfect Strike (●●●●●): Your tail becomes a deadly weapon, striking down opponents effortlessly. Your Tail Attack deals Aggravated Damage (0/A), rather than Lethal. Drawback: Spend one Willpower
point per attack. Note that this Willpower expenditure does not add three dice to the attack. Special: If you are in the Tyranos form, all Tail Attacks are Aggravated without spending Willpower.

[Eris]

Okay, just going to try to run down the list of auxiliaries for the general legacies and try to write up mechanics for them. I'm sure some will be a bit iffy, but at least getting something to grow off of should be nice.

Bones of the Mountain
They all have rules down, but I wanted to point out that world shattering fury is kinda broken. At 4 dots, you minimum strength+kau is 5, and reinforced steel is durability 4, meaning in the worst case scenario, you can still simply walk through everything.

Breath of the Inferno
Breath flare: Being blinded by it shouldn't be automatic, probably give them a stamina roll or be blinded.
Backdraft Burst: Does it reduce damage or successes? Because reducing the successes makes you harder to hit, while reducing damage is straightforward.

Eyes of Eternity
Eagle's Eyes: Reduce penalties to vision due to range or size by 1 per dots of EoE.

Cold Reading: By spending (6 minus dots) minutes you can learn one of the following traits about the target:
can understand their language for a scene
Know their mental, social, or physical merits
Know their mental, social, or physical skill
Know their attribute scores
Virtue and Vice or equivalent
(Maybe) their template or 'dread powers'

Eye of Delphi: (Very similar to changeling's Omen 4, trying not to copy it) By spending a WP, everyone with a lower initiative than you declares their actions before you declare your action.

Feel the Flow: You can sense the flow of information in the world. Spend a willpower as an instant and Roll wits+(skill) to tap into this flow, as though you were reading a book, looking at a picture album, or listening to a song, though the info is learned all at once. Must be able to 'see' target.
Wits+computer: Lets you get information from computers or cell phones.
Wits+science: Pull info from wireless transmission. (different from above in that computer can scans saved files, science only detects transmissions.)
Wits+academics: Pull info from books and other written sources.
Dramatic Failure: You lose the ability to understand any information for the scene; speech, art, writing is illegible nonsense.
Failure: You learn nothing from the source.
Success: Each success gets one 'set' of information; gives a whole book of writing, a photo album, a transmission.
Exceptional Success: You may pull all the info from the source, and you remember it perfectly.

The Longview: Senses your own fate. Usable once per chapter. Roll Wit+Kau.
Dramatic Failure: You see your worst possible future. Roll you make to stop that future from occurring are at -2.
Failure: You fail to catch hints from fate.
Successes: You gain visions of a number of possible futures equal to your successes.
Exceptional Success: In addition to seeing a larger view of your future, you get a feeling of importance whenever you are at a 'branch' point between multiple paths.

New! Windows of the Soul: By making eye contact and rolling Wits+Occult-Resolve, you can plumb the depths of their mind.

Dramatic Failure: Your target can feel you trying to see into their soul. They learn your Ambition and Heart as you project part of yourself upon their mind.
Failure: The brief moment of eye contact is broken without any knowledge imparted.
Success: You gain knowledge of a number of the target's memories equal to your successes. A memory is roughly a scene long.
Exceptional success: You learn the breadth of their soul. You also learn the general timeline of their life along with the specific memories as above.

Grace of the Host
Amicable Neighbors: The Dragon may spend a willpower to go up a step of Impression for the next social roll they would make against a target.

Party of the Century: The dragon may speed up or slow down time in their lair. The maximum they speed up or slow down time is equal to x(1+kau) or 1/(1+kau).

Heads of Wise Counsel
Base: For each dot in Heads of Wise Counsel, the Drakonos gain an additional dot of Intelligence and one additional head. Each of these heads can hold their own lines of thought and attention, allowing the dragon to gain new perspective on problems. For every dot in this legacy, pick one mental skill. You always have the advanced action property on that skill, as you hold two trains of thought at the same time.

0 Memory of Many Minds: By holding multiples of your memories, you ensure you won't forget. You have perfect recall, as the eidetic memory merit.

0 Adroitness of the Multitude: Your head can easily track multiple targets at the same time. You do not take penalties to your defense until you have been attack by a number of additional attacks equal to your dots in this legacy.

00 Helping Head: Your heads can let you hold multiple trains of thought at the same time. You reduce the time interval for mental extended actions by dividing it by your dots in this legacy.

00 Poly-formed Pragmatism: Your minds can plot out moves and plan for future events with high skill. You may spend at least one day drawing up a plan of action. During the scene that you have planned out, when you and your allies spend willpower, it adds +4 instead of +3 so long as the plan is being followed.

000 Myriad Memories: Your memories and senses are spread across your minds, making it obvious when anything tries to tamper with them. You automatically know whenever your mind, memories, or senses are being targeted by the supernatural. You don't know who or what did it, nor do you know exactly what is being done aside from what aspect is being targeted.

000 Cerebral Populous: Your ability to work with yourself gives you great insight into logistics. Whenever you are the primary actor in a teamwork action, the secondary actors get +1 to the skill so long as theirs is less than yours. This +1 will negate untrained penalties.

0000 Copious Calculations: By running the same scenario through your minds simultaneously, you can get great insight into how it is likely to go. Other complex maths and physics are also quickly able to be solved. By spending a willpower reflexively , you can know the most likely result of a series of events. They must be something that could be calculated, but your snap decisions are uncannily accurate. You can know the odds of running through making through a burning building unscathed, can call coin flips while it's mid air, or calculate the weight of that semi truck barreling towards you.

0000 Mental Legion: You may now make full teamwork actions by yourself as you juggle multiple tasks. The action must still be something you could do with just one body. You could read multiple books or draw up schematics, but you couldn't run a whole repair shop by yourself. Whenever you take a teamwork action, you may choose to be the primary and secondary actor, though other secondary actors may still join if applicable.

00000 Host of Intellect: Going even beyond your normal link with yourself, you can form a mental network among you allies. Cost: 1 Willpower. Roll Intelligence+Kau-number of members in the link. Targets must be within your line of sight.
Dramatic Failure: The mental feedback rebounds along all of the members. You and all people you targeted lose a point of willpower.
Failure: The link falls apart as the minds resist being connected.
Success: All targets may freely communicate telepathically with the group reflexively. Once the link is formed, it remains for a scene, no matter how far apart the group gets from it's other members. At the end of the scene, you may choose to spend another willpower to extend the duration for another scene.
Exceptional Success: You may choose to have the link last for a day before needing the willpower to continue.

00000 Speed of Thought: With your minds running at impossible speed, you can truly split your thought into two streams. This divide causes great stress, but allows you to take two full actions at once. By dealing yourself one lethal from the mental strain, you may take one completely non-physical instant action reflexively instead. This can only be done once a turn.

Also, I think some of these auxiliaries may need to have their levels swapped around, but I just wanted to get this wrapped up.

[Almarck]

Wow. Fast responses.

Anyway, time for the new and improved:

Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Character must have a tail

Effect: Your character is trained in a fighting style that emphasises using claws and tail in a combat situation. Obviously, this is intended to be used while you are in the Drakonos form. You may have learned this as part of your inheritance, or you learned it later on after your tail got in the way one-to-many times or perhaps you just picked it up along the way.

Dots purchased in this Merit allow access to special combat maneuvers. Each maneuver is a prerequisite for the next. So, your character cannot have "Darting Tail Attack" until he has "Snapping Tail". The maneuvers and their effects are described below, most of which are based on the Brawl Skill.


These are redunant rules, kind of. The Style merit rules basically work as a chain, but each dot rating is not purchased seperately.Essentially, it costs only 2 exp to get to Darting Tail, not 3.



This style makes mention of a "Tail Attack", which is where you attack as if your tail were a Whip (Armoury, damage 0/L), with a range of 4 Feet + Size. A Tail Attack is always Dexterity + Brawl.
This text however is not redunant, so I think it's a good idea to mention it. You may want to adjust the range as size goes up.

You are going to have to mention that this does or does not get upgraded when Bones is taken into effect. Since those are natural weapons.




Snapping Tail (●): You have such fine control over your tail that you can send it darting out to attack, even when attacking with something else. You may trade Defence for Bonus damage successes, 1-1, to a maxium of your Dexterity.

Okay, I am immediately thinking this is way too good for a one-dot ability. Automatic successes via reducing Defense by a certain amount is pretty strong, perhaps too strong since Dragons have an innately high Dex cap since how legacies work. It's especially strong since Defense is now calculated by also adding Athletics, Weaponry, or Brawl into the equation.

After a certain point, once adragon gets relatively high Dex, we're looking at dragons who deal more damage wiith their tails than their bites.

The closest fighting style that I know of this tier allows you to sacrifice 3 attack dice on the roll, making the attack much less likely to hit, for one automatic success.






Darting Tail Attack (●●): With sudden flicks and movements, your opponent never knows where to expect to defend from. You may make a Tail Attack, subtracting the lower of your Dexterity or Brawl from the target's Defence.

Wile I am certain this is powerful, I have no idea if this is too powerful or more powerful than it needs to be. Regardless, it seems that with no drawback to use, what stops a dragon from continually using their tail to fight instead of say, a bite?





Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, except that you may use Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl except that you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. Similar to Snapping Tail, this grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions.
Drawback: While an opponent is grappled in such a manner, your defence is halved.

This seems fine.



Wide Sweep (●●●●): With a wide blow, you strike multiple opponents. Pick a target. You make a Tail Attack as if it were a Medium Autofire. You may only attack a number of opponents equal to your Dexerity.

Seems okay, but may need some ceaning up. Remove references to autofire, but just add the effects. (May choose additional targets by choosing to take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls for each target after the first.)

Because if this is really a medium autofire, the tail attack gets a +2 bonus to the attack roll by being an autofire and with no conditional triggers to stop it, the dragon may simply opt to use the +2 bonus whenever at no drawback.

Also, means you "spend 10 tails".



Perfect Strike (●●●●●): Your tail becomes a deadly weapon, striking down opponents effortlessly. Your Tail Attack deals Aggravated Damage (0/A), rather than Lethal. Drawback: Spend one Willpower
point per attack. Note that this Willpower expenditure does not add three dice to the attack. Special: If you are in the Tyranos form, all Tail Attacks are Aggravated without spending Willpower.


I think this might be redundant because technically, Bones of the Mountain already covers making your natural weapons aggravated and deal more damage. Though it does not outright say tail weapons can be improved in that manner, Bones does hint at it.



Overall. I think the Style has merit. You learn quick, so for that, I must congradulate you.

However, I think you may want to revise the style to be more... an option rather than a primary weapon. As it stands, I feel the style is far better than not doing it and offers few drawbacks to balance it. I suppose you cannot use it in human form, but that may not be enough of a drawback.

Either way, I think this has real potential. and sorry if I sound overly harsh.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'm AFB, right now, but I'll answer what I can.





These are redunant rules, kind of. The Style merit rules basically work as a chain, but each dot rating is not purchased seperately.Essentially, it costs only 2 exp to get to Darting Tail, not 3.

Understood.


This text however is not redunant, so I think it's a good idea to mention it. You may want to adjust the range as size goes up.

Yeah. That was kinda the idea. The original idea was that for every size above "ordinary human" you are, you get an extra yard of range, so a starting Dragon would have a range of 2 yards. But I haven't quite found the right way to word it.


You are going to have to mention that this does or does not get upgraded when Bones is taken into effect. Since those are natural weapons.

I'm going to make some changes to some of the maneuvers, but Bones of the Mountain's Damage Bonus will be applicable to Tail Attacks.


Okay, I am immediately thinking this is way too good for a one-dot ability. Automatic successes via reducing Defense by a certain amount is pretty strong, perhaps too strong since Dragons have an innately high Dex cap since how legacies work. It's especially strong since Defense is now calculated by also adding Athletics, Weaponry, or Brawl into the equation.

After a certain point, once a dragon gets relatively high Dex, we're looking at dragons who deal more damage with their tails than their bites.

The closest fighting style that I know of this tier allows you to sacrifice 3 attack dice on the roll, making the attack much less likely to hit, for one automatic success.

Wile I am certain this is powerful, I have no idea if this is too powerful or more powerful than it needs to be. Regardless, it seems that with no drawback to use, what stops a dragon from continually using their tail to fight instead of say, a bite?

These two are going to be swapped around, dots wise and they're going to be sort-of related. Darting Tail is going to deal less damage, but be more accurate, while Snapping Tail is the reverse, giving extra damage in exchange for lower accuracy. At what exchange rates, though, I'm not sure.

Current thoughts for Darting Tail is the penalty to damage is equal to the penalty you inflict on your opponent's defence. So if you inflict a penalty of -3, you roll also get a -3 penalty to your damage dice. Sound OK?


This seems fine.

Excellent.


Seems okay, but may need some cleaning up. Remove references to autofire, but just add the effects. (May choose additional targets by choosing to take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls for each target after the first.)

Because if this is really a medium autofire, the tail attack gets a +2 bonus to the attack roll by being an autofire and with no conditional triggers to stop it, the dragon may simply opt to use the +2 bonus whenever at no drawback.

Also, means you "spend 10 tails".

First I'm told that the manuver was basically "Tail Autofire", now I'm told to change it again. You guys are gonna make me seem Schizophrenic :smalltongue:. In all seriousness, though, I'll update the wording.


I think this might be redundant because technically, Bones of the Mountain already covers making your natural weapons aggravated and deal more damage. Though it does not outright say tail weapons can be improved in that manner, Bones does hint at it.

I think I'll change this so that Perfect Strike allows you to spend a point of Willpower to make a Scorpion Tail attack without the Drawback. Sound good? I think I'm going to stick with the special effect of making this "default" when in Tyranos, though.


Overall. I think the Style has merit. You learn quick, so for that, I must congratulate you.

I've always felt that the best way to learn a system is to make something for that system.


However, I think you may want to revise the style to be more... an option rather than a primary weapon. As it stands, I feel the style is far better than not doing it and offers few drawbacks to balance it. I suppose you cannot use it in human form, but that may not be enough of a drawback.

Either way, I think this has real potential. and sorry if I sound overly harsh.

With these revisions in mind, how does it look?

And don't worry. Harsher the better. Harsher you are, the quicker I learn and the quicker I learn, the better I can balance what I'm making.


Unrelated: Is it just me, or does Tin's last name look like it ought to belong to a DBZ Villain? "I AM BRIENZA! I HAVE COME TO CONQUER THIS PATHETIC WORLD!"

[One Tin Soldier]

Yeah. That was kinda the idea. The original idea was that for every size above "ordinary human" you are, you get an extra yard of range, so a starting Dragon would have a range of 2 yards. But I haven't quite found the right way to word it.

I'd do it on the same scale as the rest of the Size bonuses: 1 yard for every 3 points of size above 5. (Or, to put it another way, 1 foot for every point above 5.)


Unrelated: Is it just me, or does Tin's last name look like it ought to belong to a DBZ Villain? "I AM BRIENZA! I HAVE COME TO CONQUER THIS PATHETIC WORLD!"

THIS IS THE TRUE POWER OF BRIENZA! YOUR MISERABLE SKILLS CANNOT SAVE YOU FROM ME!

I suspect that's because you're internally pronouncing it "breen-za", which sounds a bit like Freiza. It's actually pronounced "bree-en-za," being an Italian name and all. But that's a lot less fun of an explanation.

[Almarck]

Also, just realized, but Tin, that scenario is basically what happens in Godzilla: Final Wars. The only thing you are missing is the alien mutant super soldiers. I’m not even kidding. Granted, it’s less a mecha and more a flying battleship, but it fights and defeats Kaiju and is pretty big…
And I guess that battle took place over all of Earth, but hey it’s close enough

Anyways, I’ve got this stuff up for the Spurned ready to be critiqued and worked in.


So, Spurnned is a merit worth about 2 dots under GMC pricing.

By being Spurned, you receive a Boon, a minor power that barely amounts to a full legacy or other talent of draconic power. However, despite or because of this relative incompleteness, unlike Dragons, Spurned never cause Enkindling as dragons do. They cannot create Slayers as they are not dragons, nor may they ever become Slayers.

Most Boons are broken up into two parts, a passive part, detailing an ability that is always constantly working, meanwhile there is an active part accessible only to Knights of Sigfried due to ritually fortifying themselves and actively attempting to take draconic might into themselves.

Samples:

Flesh of the Hydra.
-This Spurned bears the rapidly regenerating flesh of a hydra, given a sort of vital life most humans never possess.
Passive: The character heals bashing damage every turn and lethal damage every 1 hour.
Active: Through sacrificing his own willpower, the Spurned may remove a negative tilt as a result of damage. The damage persists, but the tilt is removed. This has no effect on persistent tilts.

Wings of Dragon Kind
-This Spurned was blessed with the wings of his bretheren. Though his incapable of sustained true flight, he can easily glide from place to place.
Passive: Wings able to lift and glide, but not truely fly
Active: Spend 1 Willpower to fly for a short scene, no longer than Stamina minutes.
Drawback: the wings are permanently manifest on your back and this extremely noticable.

Dragon Claws
-This spurned is able to manifest sharpened claws and teeth, much like his more regal Kindred, but is still barred from accessing their full might.
-Passive: 0 damage Lethal claws.
-Active: claws grow sharper. 2 Damage, AP 1

Ocean’s Blessing
-A Spurned with this power was born with the power to dwell and persist in the waters.
Passive: double Stamina for purposes of suffocation.
Active: 1 Willpower, swimming bonuses.

Minor Drakonos
-The Spurned takes the form of a Hordeling.
Passive: None
Active: Self explanatory.

(Note, I thought this was a funny way of letting a Spurned approach being a dragon, let be so far away from it. Mostly, this comes as a result of the fact some wolfblooded can shift into a wolf form now, so I thought this Boon was the closest thing to doing that wihtout outright letting the Spurned become temporarily a full dragon)


And so on and so forth. Granted, I imagine that the powers are probably a little too weak or need adjusting.


By the way, has it ever occured to you guys that maybe it would be interesting to allow characters to actually be smaller or not as large as they would be at full blast? I imagine it would be a fun “secondary” legacy to create assuming we end up going that route someday. Shelved, but an idea for later, among so many other things.

[Sgt. Cookie]

What is this "Hordeling" you speak of? :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I'm glad my little Hoardlings have found some good use.

[One Tin Soldier]

Also, just realized, but Tin, that scenario is basically what happens in Godzilla: Final Wars. The only thing you are missing is the alien mutant super soldiers. I’m not even kidding. Granted, it’s less a mecha and more a flying battleship, but it fights and defeats Kaiju and is pretty big…
And I guess that battle took place over all of Earth, but hey it’s close enough

Xallace and I have actually watched that movie drunk before. It's incredible. And yeah, that's basically exactly the sort of scenario we were thinking of.


Anyways, I’ve got this stuff up for the Spurned ready to be critiqued and worked in.


So, Spurnned is a merit worth about 2 dots under GMC pricing.

By being Spurned, you receive a Boon, a minor power that barely amounts to a full legacy or other talent of draconic power. However, despite or because of this relative incompleteness, unlike Dragons, Spurned never cause Enkindling as dragons do. They cannot create Slayers as they are not dragons, nor may they ever become Slayers.

Most Boons are broken up into two parts, a passive part, detailing an ability that is always constantly working, meanwhile there is an active part accessible only to Knights of Sigfried due to ritually fortifying themselves and actively attempting to take draconic might into themselves.

Samples:

Flesh of the Hydra.
-This Spurned bears the rapidly regenerating flesh of a hydra, given a sort of vital life most humans never possess.
Passive: The character heals bashing damage every turn and lethal damage every 1 hour.
Active: Through sacrificing his own willpower, the Spurned may remove a negative tilt as a result of damage. The damage persists, but the tilt is removed. This has no effect on persistent tilts.

Wings of Dragon Kind
-This Spurned was blessed with the wings of his bretheren. Though his incapable of sustained true flight, he can easily glide from place to place.
Passive: Wings able to lift and glide, but not truely fly
Active: Spend 1 Willpower to fly for a short scene, no longer than Stamina minutes.
Drawback: the wings are permanently manifest on your back and this extremely noticable.

Dragon Claws
-This spurned is able to manifest sharpened claws and teeth, much like his more regal Kindred, but is still barred from accessing their full might.
-Passive: 0 damage Lethal claws.
-Active: claws grow sharper. 2 Damage, AP 1

Ocean’s Blessing
-A Spurned with this power was born with the power to dwell and persist in the waters.
Passive: double Stamina for purposes of suffocation.
Active: 1 Willpower, swimming bonuses.

Minor Drakonos
-The Spurned takes the form of a Hordeling.
Passive: None
Active: Self explanatory.

(Note, I thought this was a funny way of letting a Spurned approach being a dragon, let be so far away from it. Mostly, this comes as a result of the fact some wolfblooded can shift into a wolf form now, so I thought this Boon was the closest thing to doing that wihtout outright letting the Spurned become temporarily a full dragon)


And so on and so forth. Granted, I imagine that the powers are probably a little too weak or need adjusting.

Actually, if anything, I'd place the abilities as being too powerful. Flesh of the Hydra, for one, is straight-up better than Immortality of Lerna. Allowing them to spend a Willpower to clear their rightmost box would be ok, though.
Similarly, I'd say that Dragon Claws should be at most a 1L weapon, possibly 0L.
In general I don't know how I feel about them getting permanent, obvious changes like wings or claws. I'm not nixing the idea entirely, though. Xallace? What do you think?


By the way, has it ever occured to you guys that maybe it would be interesting to allow characters to actually be smaller or not as large as they would be at full blast? I imagine it would be a fun “secondary” legacy to create assuming we end up going that route someday. Shelved, but an idea for later, among so many other things.

I had been considering swapping out one of the existing 1 dot sorceries for it, but it wouldn't fit as well with the new Sorcery fluff.

[Xallace]

Xallace and I have actually watched that movie drunk before. It's incredible. And yeah, that's basically exactly the sort of scenario we were thinking of.

There are two things you didn't know about Earth. The first is me. The second... is GODZILLA."


Actually, if anything, I'd place the abilities as being too powerful. Flesh of the Hydra, for one, is straight-up better than Immortality of Lerna. Allowing them to spend a Willpower to clear their rightmost box would be ok, though.
Similarly, I'd say that Dragon Claws should be at most a 1L weapon, possibly 0L.
In general I don't know how I feel about them getting permanent, obvious changes like wings or claws. I'm not nixing the idea entirely, though. Xallace? What do you think?

Yeah, they're a little strong. And I am not in favor of obvious things being always-on, like wings.



I had been considering swapping out one of the existing 1 dot sorceries for it, but it wouldn't fit as well with the new Sorcery fluff.

I've been toying with a legacy that improves your general shapeshifting capabilities. That would probably be among the auxiliaries.

[Almarck]

Personally I think something like shapeshifting probably should be it's own legacy or some such. More legacies outside of the Primaries stat boosting ones) would be good. The way I see it, we're going to have to eventually branch out and break the General Legacy set up eventually if for no other reason in preparation for it.

I do not see shapeshifting as... all important or typical of being a dragon but it helps. Perhaps the justification is that it's a legacy that sprung up after the Empire fell, rather than a heritage that goes back so far.

Regardless...I balanced Boons towards the abilities Wolf blooded got via Tells. One of them is the regeneration of a werewolf.... so I suppose that's probably why Hydra ended up so strong. I will concede I did a bad job of balancing them but well... wolf blooded are seriously more powerful now. They were designed to be playable in such a,way that a PC can opt to roll a wolf blooded instead of a werewolf.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Ok, I'm back with my things! Time for what is, I hope, the last revision for Scorpion Tail.

Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Character must have a tail

Effect: Your character is trained in a fighting style that emphasises using claws and tail in a combat situation. Obviously, this is intended to be used while you are in the Drakonos form. You may have learned this as part of your inheritance, or you learned it later on after your tail got in the way one-to-many times or perhaps you just picked it up along the way.

This style makes mention of a "Tail Attack", which is where you attack as if your tail were a Whip (Armoury, damage 0/L), for every 3 points of size above 4 you are, your Tail Attack gains 1 yard of range (As such, starting Dragons get +1 Range). A Tail Attack is always Dexterity + Brawl. You may, of course, make a Tail Attack as an ordinary attack.

Despite it being Dexterity based, Tail Attacks benefit from the Extra Damage granted by the Bones of the Mountain legacy and can be upgraded to Aggravated Damage, via the Rampage auxiliary.

Darting Tail Attack (●): With sudden flicks and movements, your opponent never knows where to expect to defend from. You may make a Tail Attack, subtracting the lower of your Dexterity or Brawl from the target's Defence.
Drawback: Any damage dealt by your Tail Attack is downgraded one step. (So, Bashing, by default.)

Snapping Tail (●●): You have such fine control over your tail that you can send it darting out to attack, even when attacking with something else. You gain a number of Bonus Successes to the Attack roll, up to your Brawl rating. You may choose how many Successes you get.
Drawback: For every Bonus Success you take, you suffer a -3 penalty to your Attack Pool.

Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, except that you may use Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl and you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. This grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions. In addition, for every extra Yard of range, your Dexterity is treated as if it were one point higher for the Grapple.
Drawback: While an opponent is grappled in such a manner, your defence is halved.

Wide Sweep (●●●●): With a wide blow, you strike multiple opponents. Pick a target. You make a Tail Attack against multiple opponents who are in range, to a maximum number of opponents equal to your Dexterity.
Drawback: Each extra opponent inflicts an accumulative -1 penalty to the roll. Similar to the penalty of Autofire weapons.

Perfect Strike (●●●●●): You may make another Scorpion Tail attack without suffering from the Drawback. (I mean, you COULD use it to get a free Perfect Strike, but since you've already had to spend the Willpower on that first use...)
Drawback: Spend one Willpower point per attack. Note that this Willpower expenditure does not add three dice to the attack.
Special: If you are in the Tyranos form, you do not need to spend Willpower to activate this maneuver.


There. How does it look now?

[Amechra]

Darting Tail Attack is a bit too good for a first-dot ability. Subtracting anything from another character's Defense is the same as adding it to your own dice pool, and +[lower of Brawl and Dexterity] can be big. I'm not sure what would be a good replacement, though.

Snapping Tail is still borked. I suggest you take a look at Heavy Weapons • for an example of how you would word that particular effect (adding Successes means that you auto-hit, which is probably not your intent; you want to increase the weapon bonus.)

Binding Grasp is weirdly worded, but otherwise fine.

Wide Sweep is 0.0; the usual equivalent is dealing automatic damage to anyone who walks within your reach.

What does Perfect Strike even do? Does it just remove the drawbacks for the other techniques?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Darting Tail Attack is a bit too good for a first-dot ability. Subtracting anything from another character's Defense is the same as adding it to your own dice pool, and +[lower of Brawl and Dexterity] can be big. I'm not sure what would be a good replacement, though.

Hm. Make it a Rote action only usable AFTER an opponent has had a turn?


Snapping Tail is still borked. I suggest you take a look at Heavy Weapons • for an example of how you would word that particular effect (adding Successes means that you auto-hit, which is probably not your intent; you want to increase the weapon bonus.)

That is PRECISELY what I wanted to do. Thanks!


Binding Grasp is weirdly worded, but otherwise fine.

I'll try to clear that up then.


Wide Sweep is 0.0; the usual equivalent is dealing automatic damage to anyone who walks within your reach.

I tried to make it similar to how Autofire attacks can attack multiple opponents, but, y'know, without "actually" making the Tail Attack Autofire.


What does Perfect Strike even do? Does it just remove the drawbacks for the other techniques?

Oddly worded, I'll grant. I'll clean that up.

EDIT: Alright, how's this look?

Fighting Style: Scorpion Tail (● to ●●●●●)
Prerequisites: Dexterity ●●●, Brawl ●●, Character must have a tail

Effect: Your character is trained in a fighting style that emphasises using your tail in a combat situation. Obviously, this is intended to be used while you are in the Drakonos form. You may have learned this as part of your inheritance, or you learned it later on after your tail got in the way one-to-many times or perhaps you just picked it up along the way.

This style makes mention of a "Tail Attack", which is where you attack as if your tail were a Whip (Armoury, damage 0/L), for every 3 points of size above 4 you are, your Tail Attack gains 1 yard of range (As such, starting Dragons get +1 Range). A Tail Attack is always Dexterity + Brawl. You may, of course, make a Tail Attack as an ordinary attack.

Despite it being Dexterity based, Tail Attacks benefit from the Extra Damage granted by the Bones of the Mountain legacy and can be upgraded to Aggravated Damage, via the Rampage auxiliary.

Darting Tail Attack (●): With sudden flicks and movements, your opponent never knows where to expect to defend from. You may make a Tail Attack as a Rote Action, but only after your opponent has acted in the round.
Drawback: Any damage dealt by your Tail Attack is downgraded one step. (So, Bashing, by default.)

Snapping Tail (●●): You suddenly lash out with your tail. It'll certainly hurt, assuming it hits. By activating this Maneuver Reflexively, you gain a bonus to your Tail Attack's Damage Rating, to a maximum of your Brawl. You may choose how much extra Damage you get. You may not use Snapping Tail in conjunction with another Maneuver.
Drawback: For every extra Damage Rating you take, you suffer a -3 penalty to your Attack Pool.

Binding Grasp (●●●): With a swift shuffle, you wrap your long tail around an opponent, binding limbs and the like. You may attempt to grapple an opponent in range, using Dexterity + Brawl, rather than Strength + Brawl and you may not utilise the "Render opponent prone" effect. For every extra Yard of range you have, your Dexterity is treated as one point higher. This grapple, and any post-grapple effects, are made in addition to your ordinary actions.
Drawback: While an opponent is grappled in such a manner, your defence is halved.
Note: This is NOT a "ranged grapple" effect. Your opponent is still drawn to you as if this were a regular Grapple.

Wide Sweep (●●●●): With a wide blow, you strike multiple opponents. You may make a Tail Attack against multiple opponents who are in range, to a maximum number of opponents equal to your Dexterity. All attacks are made with a single attack roll. Not one roll per opponent.
Drawback: Each extra opponent inflicts an accumulative -1 penalty to the roll. Similar to attacking multiple opponents with Autofire weapons.

Perfect Strike (●●●●●): When you use a Scorpion Tail Maneuver, you may activate Perfect Strike along side it. If you do, replace the original Drawback with Perfect Strike's for a round.
Drawback: Spend one Willpower point per attack. Note that this Willpower expenditure does not add three dice to the attack. Activating Perfect Strike with Binding Grasp only removes the penalty for the round.
Special: If you are in the Tyranos form, this maneuver is always active, provided you know it, and costs no Willpower.

[Xallace]

I think it looks good, though you should specify that the maneuver that lets you hit multiple targets uses a single attack roll. It's implied but I could see confusion.

Edit: Also, Eris, your contributions for Heads of Wise Counsel and a couple other legacies have been added to the doc.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Aaaand done!

EDIT: I have questions.

Is there a term for a Dragon that has yet to encounter its identity crisis? Or are they also called Heir-Apparent? I ask because the text appears to imply that an "Heir-Apparent" is someone who's broadcasting "Yep, I'm ready to become a Dragon now! Better hurry!"

And if there IS a term for these pre-crisis individuals, are they subject to Enkindling like ordinary humans?

Looking back over Scorpion Tail, I was wondering. Should a Tail Attack be something available to all Dragons, or just those who have taken Scorpion Tail?

[Almarck]

Anyone got any further commentary on the Spurned?

[One Tin Soldier]

Aaaand done!

EDIT: I have questions.

Is there a term for a Dragon that has yet to encounter its identity crisis? Or are they also called Heir-Apparent? I ask because the text appears to imply that an "Heir-Apparent" is someone who's broadcasting "Yep, I'm ready to become a Dragon now! Better hurry!"

And if there IS a term for these pre-crisis individuals, are they subject to Enkindling like ordinary humans?

Looking back over Scorpion Tail, I was wondering. Should a Tail Attack be something available to all Dragons, or just those who have taken Scorpion Tail?

You're correct, Heirs Apparent are people ready to become Heirs. We don't have a term for dragons who haven't had their crisis yet because they're basically indistinguishable from normal humans.
As for whether they can be Enkindled or not, that's something we haven't addressed. I'm inclined to say that yes they can be Enkindled, but generally won't become Slayers. Or, possibly, becoming a Slayer means that the person can't become an Heir. It's very hard to definitively prove either way.

Any dragon with a tail can attack with it. Substituting Dex for Strength, I'd say you need either Fighting Finesse or the Scorpion Tail style.

[Xallace]

I had a couple brief ideas for a fire breath style.

Fusilier Breath Style (●-●●●)
Prerequisites: Resolve ●●●, Stamina ●●●, ability to breathe fire.

● Firing Stance: You take a solid stance that makes up for kickback from your flame breath. When you breath fire, you gain a +2 bonus to the attack roll.
Drawback: In any round in which you use this maneuver, you cannot move more than half your speed.

●● Deep Breathing: You have mastered various breathing techniques to enhance the power of your flame. When you aim your fire breath, each round spent aiming grants an additional damage success, rather than a +1 bonus to the die roll. You may still only aim for a maximum of three turns.
Drawback: In order to build up enough breath, you leave yourself open to attacks. You lose your defense on any round in which you use this maneuver. You can still aim normally to avoid the drawback.

●●● Explosive Exhalation: Most of the time, fire breath results in a stream of flame meant to set creatures and objects alight. You have mastered the technique of expelling flame all at once in an explosive burst, rather than over a sustained streamed. When you use a blast of flame breath, you can target a single individual with this maneuver. If you successfully hit that target, they are blown a number of yards equal to the successes rolled + the damage bonus, in addition to taking damage.
Drawback: The damage on this maneuver is lowered by one step; so lethal becomes bashing, and aggravated becomes lethal.

[Amechra]

For Sgt. Cookie (we have quite the military theme going here, don't we?)

Darting Tail Attack
Whenever you make a Tail Attack against a character with a higher Initiative count than you, the attack roll is made as a Rote action.
I have a feeling that that is still too strong for a one-dot effect. In my head, I'm visualizing the Dragon using this technique to destabilize and off-balance an opponent. What do you think about...
Whenever you make a Tail Attack against another character, you may choose to make it as a Darting Tail Attack; if you do so, the other character's Defense is reduced by two on a successful attack until their next action, rather than by one. Drawback: The damage dealt by a Darting Tail Attack is downgraded by one step before applying the benefits of Armor and other effects that downgrade or prevent damage.

Snapping Tail
It's a "Weapon Bonus" not a "Damage Bonus"; it would also be cleaner to phrase the actual rules as:
You may reflexively take a penalty to your attack roll, to a maximum of three times your Brawl rating; for every -3 penalty you take, rounded down, your Weapon Bonus increases by one for the attack.
Looking at it this way... I'm not liking it. After all, if I have Brawl 4 and a 3-die attack pool (after Defense and other penalties), I can take a -12 penalty to my attack roll, taking me down to a Chance Die, but giving me a +4 to my damage if I do hit. NWoD doesn't have a hard limit on how big a penalty you can take; anything past a certain point just drops you to a chance die.
I'd suggest just doing a copy of Heavy Weapons • that also gives you some Armor Piercing (Armor Piercing 2 sounds good to me.)

Binding Grasp
Doesn't really seem to fit with the other Techniques, come to think of it. I mean, look at it this way: Darting Tail Attack, Snapping Tail, and Wide Sweep are all based around smacking someone with your tail, while Perfect Strike is an iffy meta thing. Then, right in the middle, you have a Scorpion-style (MK, not the animal) "Get over here!" It doesn't "chain" well. Plus, well, you never specified that the tail had to be prehensile. This would let, say, a Werewolf grapple a bloke with their tail. Which is kinda silly.
Maybe have their Tail Attacks gain the Stun quality? They bash you over the head with their tail, or whatever.

Wide Sweep
I still hold that this should be a "anyone dumb enough to come within reach takes auto-damage", but that's my preference. To avoid my bias, I will avoid further comments on this.

Perfect Strike
Not a fan of the implementation; as it stands, I could use this with Snapping Tail to just add my Brawl rating to my damage or with Wide Sweep to attack an unlimited number of guys. I dunno, just doesn't feel right in my gut.

On Tail Attacks
Tail Attacks are kinda unnecessary (read the rest of this comment!), since you can already fluff your Brawl attacks as beating someone up with your tail. As such, I'd replace "Tail Attack" with "Brawl attacks made with your tail". If you want to use Dex, take Fighting Finesse (might make a good prerequisite for this merit); the extra reach is implicit in your HUGEITUDE (to be more specific: distances and scales in NWoD are usually kept pretty vague, especially when talking about your character's reach.)

For Xallace

Firing Stance
Looks fine to me; combos well with making an All-Out Attack with your fire-breath (+4 to the attack roll in exchange to becoming a naked turtle for a turn? Sounds fair to me!)

Deep Breathing
I'd go with "increases the damage dealt by 1", rather than boosting the Damage Rating. But that's just me. Also, you might want to note that this retains the normal cap for aiming (+3 to your attack roll.)

Explosive Exhalation
I like this. I like this alot (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html). Like alot of fire. Blast someone off a building. Because Dragon.

Heirs Apparent - Pre-I-Is-Obviously-Heir-Apparent-NOTICE-ME!

May I suggest Heir Presumptive? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heir_presumptive)

[Eris]

It's worth noting for fire breath stuff, you can only all-out attack when using brawl or weaponry. And I'll try to run down the last 4 legacies I haven't looked at yet later tonight.

[Xallace]

True. Although it seems like it wouldn't be a particularly unbalanced to be able to all-out with flame weapons. I've got other ideas for a separate fire-related style (one that can be used for flamethrowers as well as fire breath), so it might be a decent one- or two-dot in there.

Is it too much to have two separate styles devoted to killing things with fire? Some might say so. I am not one of those people.

"Heir Presumptive" makes sense, but like Soldier said it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between an normal human and an Heir who hasn't become Apparent. Nobody really is Presumptive, they just were. So even if it comes up, it will be in very minor contexts.

[Sgt. Cookie]

(These are drunk thoughts, so coherency is not guaranteed. Reply to Amchera will be when I've sobered up, but short version is: You're right. Except on Wide Sweep. As "to a maximum number of opponents equal to your Dexterity" is part of the Maneuver itself, not the Drawback. So, no, you cannot attack an infinite number of people with Perfect Strike.)

The contexts may be minor, but otherwise important. A would-be Dragon gets Enkindled. Does he ACTUALLY get Enkindled? Does he become a Slayer? It might be a niche circumstance, but it IS an important one.

Do you think a merit to allow an ordinary Human to go "Cool story bro" when Enkindled would be OK? Perhaps they were a huge fan of Dragons as a kid or perhaps their "holy s**t, THAT EXISTS!?!?" reaction has just become numb.

[Amechra]

True. Although it seems like it wouldn't be a particularly unbalanced to be able to all-out with flame weapons. I've got other ideas for a separate fire-related style (one that can be used for flamethrowers as well as fire breath), so it might be a decent one- or two-dot in there.

Is it too much to have two separate styles devoted to killing things with fire? Some might say so. I am not one of those people.

"Heir Presumptive" makes sense, but like Soldier said it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between an normal human and an Heir who hasn't become Apparent. Nobody really is Presumptive, they just were. So even if it comes up, it will be in very minor contexts.

I think the bare minimum is two; you're letting down Team Pyro otherwise.

And to Eris and Sgt. Cookie... Egg. Face. On. Embarrass. In my defense, I had to construct a Turing Machine tonight, so I have excuses.

EDIT: Wait... Heir Presumptive can be a title for Spurned.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Don't worry Amechra, we all make mistakes. Mine was consuming 9 Carlsburg's in the space of about 4-5 hours.

Drunk edit: The hell's a "Turing machine"?

[Eris]

Okay, gonna try to go through the rest of the general legacies

Hide of Iron
000 Immutable Bearing
Your tenacity is part of your very being, rooting root to where you intend to be. Any attempts to move you against your will suffer a penalty equal to your stamina. The will you possess also keeps you in whatever form you choose; any effects that try to change part of your being also suffer the stamina penalty. Also, when you succeed at restraining someone in combat, they take the stamina penalty and cannot roll at all if reduced to a chance die.

Switch iron mind to 0000. Possibly remove it altogether due to it stepping on Grace a bit.

Presence of the Emperor
0 Echos of the Emperor
Strangers tend to assume the dragon is a figure of authority. The dragon can choose to enhance this image. Whenever you spend a willpower while acting as the targets superior, your roll gains the 8-again property in addition to the +3 dice.

00000 Flag on the Horizon
The dragon is an exceptionally intimidating presence, and creatures are affected by fear simply knowing she is there. Whenever the Dragon chooses to cast his glare against a target or a group, everyone targeted must roll Resolve+Kauchaumai-the dragon's Presence.

Dramatic failure: The Target's mind is overwhelmed the majesty of the dragon's form. They can do nothing except flee the scene, cower in fear, or follow the dragon's commands.
Failure: The target suffers a -3 to all rolls other than fleeing or capitulating to the dragon
Success: The target suffers a -1 to all rolls other than fleeing or capitulating to the dragon
Exceptional Success: The target may act as the choose, even in the face of such raw charisma
(This last one was hard to balance around being a 5 dot power, could maybe swap with Steal the Show.)


Tongue of the Serpent
000 Honeyed Tongue
The dragon's words fall sweetly on everyone's ears, lulling them away from what the dragon is actually saying. While this auxiliary functions similarly to Give Command, except the iron command is hidden behind other words. The magic of the dragon's commands is no longer obvious, with onlookers usually assuming the target simply chose to follow the command. On an exceptional success, even the target isn't sure why they did what they were told.

000 Bent Words
They dragon's wordplay can be tailored to his friends and enemies at the same time. By spending a willpower and speaking for at least a minute, they can ensure that each person comes away with a different message. A number of unique targets up to the dragon's Kauchaumai+1 only understands part of what the dragon actually said. Social rolls may be made by the dragon against targets individually without other onlookers noticing.

This horrid power allows a dragon to control parts of a victim that they cannot even control themselves. By staring into a target’s eyes, the dragon can take control of a target’s autonomous functions. This power is often preceded by Dread Gaze, locking the target in and then shutting them down.

0000 Venomous gaze

This horrid power allows a dragon to control parts of a victim that they cannot even control themselves. By staring into a target’s eyes, the dragon can take control of a target’s autonomous functions. This power is often preceded by Dread Gaze, locking the target in and then shutting them down.

Action: Instant
Cost: 2 Willpower
Roll: Manipulation + Kauchaomai vs Stamina + Kauchaomai OR Resolve + Kauchaomai

Dramatic Failure: The gaze falls back upon the dragon, their vision seeing only their own reflection in the targets eyes. The target is unaffected, and the dragon can take no actions in the next turn.

Failure: Your powers of control are blocked at the target averts their gaze at the last moment.

Success: The dragon gains control over the target’s autonomous functions (such as breathing and heartbeat) so long as they retain eye contact with the victim. The dragon can speed up, slow down, or even turn off these functions as they will it. The dragon may choose to deal damage to the target, reflexively rolling manipulation+intimidation, each success causing 1 bashing damage.

Exceptional Success: As a success, except you may choose to deal additional amount of damage equal to your
kauchaumai rating on top of the manipulation+intimidation roll.

0000 Standing Orders

Your power to bend minds to your will improves to the point that your commands echo around in their head, even after they have left your presence. As give command, except the actual command occurs at some trigger you specify. The target cannot remember the command or trigger if you succeed, though others may feel free to key them in. May be combined with Honeyed Tongue or Bent words for an additional willpower point each.

00000 Anything for You

Your commands strike at the core of the targets being. They may now be forced to take actions that requires them to make break checks.

00000 Total Control

The target of your gaze becomes nothing more that a puppet to your will. So long as the eye contact remains unbroken, the target cannot take any actions on their own. You may choose to take an instant action each turn to force the target to act for you. They act under their best capacity to act as you will them too, though you may not know all that the target is capable of.

Wings of the Heavens
000 Prison Break
The dragon cannot be bound by normal means, and gains superior defense against supernatural bindings. When the dragons seeks to break free from a binding, they may add their Kauchaumai to their rolls to escape. Additionally, they may spend a willpower escape containment that they would usually not be allowed to roll to escape.

Action: Instant
Cost: 1 Willpower
Roll: Dexterity-Kauchaumai (if applicable)

Dramatic Failure: The dragon panics as they feel the futility of escaping. They suffer -2 to all rolls for the rest of the scene.

Failure: Even your adroitness is not enough to free yourself.

Success: An effect that is currently keeping the dragon from moving or escaping immediately stops effecting the dragon.

Exceptional Success: The entire effect containing the dragon ends, possibly fleeing other trapped allies.

0000 Walk Road Unseen

There are many ways to move from point a to point b. While many are obvious, there are leaps and jumps that are beyond mortal kenning. By reflexively spending a willpower on their turn, the dragon may move (Dexterity) yards to anywhere the see, disappearing from their starting point and instantly arriving where they wish.

0000 Only a Myth

Modern science still must submit to the ancient powers of fate. Utilizing their will to be free, they become nigh-impossible to track or follow. By spending a willpower, all scientific means of tracking the dragon, be it a gps chip, satellite footage, or radar, fail to find them for the next scene (or maybe day?). Mundane or supernatural effects also have considerable more trouble finding the dragon. Tracking via witnesses or trails left behind take a penalty equal to the dots in this legacy. Supernatural scrying and tracking powers take the same penalty.


Again, I kinda did these to get stuff on the paper, some still need some formatting to finalize, and some will probably be unbalanced or need to be swapped up or down with other auxiliaries.

[Almarck]

So on thinking on it, is the Dexterous Claws merit important? By this I mean why is it not a standard part of being a dragon since past a certain point you go through alot of trouble or have items resize. I'm thinking all it really does is provide a merit sink for something most dragons are not gonna do anyways with the significant time and resource investment neccesary just to use it. It feels redundant.


Additionally has there been any decisions or progress made on Testaments and Monumemnts,?

[Sgt. Cookie]

I don't know why I wrote this, but I wrote this.

It started out so innocuously. A strange bite from an insect while he was in Drakonos. “Probably just a horse fly or something”, the Drake Aladanis thought. Nothing to be particularly concerned about, a little blood and something got to eat. Whatever, y’know? Probably gonna get that checked out, later, but right now, it didn’t really matter. He was just content to be away from people, so he could be in his true form. It was an uplifting experience.

He stayed that way for about a day or two, hunting the wildlife for sustenance. But soon, he yearned to be with his hoard again. An entire room of his house, dedicated to 60s films. Posters, memorabilia, tapes. Even a vintage VHS player to play them on. Perhaps he’ll watch Psycho again or maybe The Producers. Ah, hell. He’ll watch them both, why even pretend to be fussed? It was getting late, so now was a good time to head home.

He flew as close to town as he dared, before returning to his Anthropos form, an unassuming man in his 20s wearing a t-shirt and jeans. The very definition of “average”. Which was the point. It was a little harder than usual to change back, but he brushed it aside, probably just tired. He walked back to his apartment in the evening air, feeling a little nauseous he decided to grab some paracetamol when he got in.

An hour later, he was back home and he took a couple of tablets with some water. He decided to put on The Producers. He wasn’t in the mood for some 60s horror. By the time the movie was over, the tablets had kicked in and he felt better. He went to bed to try and sleep off this temporary illness. The next morning he felt worse than yesterday. Parts of his abdomen were in pain and the nausea was back worse than before. He considered calling in sick to work, but decided against it.

He worked as a bartender in some crappy dive bar in the centre of town. The work wasn’t hard, but it wasn’t particularly well-paying either. But, it was enough to live on and enough to fund more additions to his hoard. He’ll have to check later on whether the seller of that Goldfinger poster had gotten back to him. But, for now, he’ll spend the day serving drinks to people.

About five hours into his shift, he felt really unwell. There were no customers right now and if someone came in, his colleague could handle it. For now, he ran to the men’s room, found a toilet and emptied his stomach for about five minutes. He wasn’t particularly all together afterwards. If he was, he would’ve noticed these strange things, that looked a little like black maggots, in the toilet bowl. As such, he just flushed them away and went back to work.

About a week passed with no more of those incidents, but the nausea and the pain still stuck around and were only getting worse. One night, he was walking home thinking he’d just fall into bed. But as he walked home, he felt a strange feeling. It was as if his body was trying to change back into his Drakonos form. It wasn’t much to begin with, but after about 20 minutes, it was taking a great effort not to change into his draconic self. Ten minutes later, his ability to resist failed and Aladanis the Drake was revealed to the world.

Unfortunately, he did so in the middle of a crowded street. Realising the problem, Aladanis tried to fly away, to prevent as much Enkindling as possible, but he found that he didn’t have the strength to do so. He tried running, but he found himself slow and sluggish. “Oh, f**k. Oh, F**K!” he thought, over and over again as people all started running and screaming in fear. Soon police sirens rang out and found their way into the street. Unlike the people in the street, these police officers quickly became Slayers.

Bullets were flying out everywhere, hitting Aladanis in all sides. But he found himself unable to fight back. His movements were sluggish, his thoughts slow and that pain in his abdomen was far more intense than ever. Like something was eating its way out. Soon, the Drake fell to the bullets of the new Slayers, but unlike an ordinary death, he remained in his Drakonos. As the police officers went to the corpse of the dragon they saw a pulsating bulge. After a moment, the bulge exploded and hundreds of these strange, black, fly-like creatures burst out, flying in all different directions. When they looked back at the dragon’s corpse, they saw that he had changed into a human. But the flies? They went on, seeking more dragons to perpetuate their life cycle.


So, yeah. A parasite that infects Dragons as part of its life cycle. Again, I don't know why I did this.

[Leliel]

I don't know why I wrote this, but I wrote this.

It started out so innocuously. A strange bite from an insect while he was in Drakonos. “Probably just a horse fly or something”, the Drake Aladanis thought. Nothing to be particularly concerned about, a little blood and something got to eat. Whatever, y’know? Probably gonna get that checked out, later, but right now, it didn’t really matter. He was just content to be away from people, so he could be in his true form. It was an uplifting experience.

He stayed that way for about a day or two, hunting the wildlife for sustenance. But soon, he yearned to be with his hoard again. An entire room of his house, dedicated to 60s films. Posters, memorabilia, tapes. Even a vintage VHS player to play them on. Perhaps he’ll watch Psycho again or maybe The Producers. Ah, hell. He’ll watch them both, why even pretend to be fussed? It was getting late, so now was a good time to head home.

He flew as close to town as he dared, before returning to his Anthropos form, an unassuming man in his 20s wearing a t-shirt and jeans. The very definition of “average”. Which was the point. It was a little harder than usual to change back, but he brushed it aside, probably just tired. He walked back to his apartment in the evening air, feeling a little nauseous he decided to grab some paracetamol when he got in.

An hour later, he was back home and he took a couple of tablets with some water. He decided to put on The Producers. He wasn’t in the mood for some 60s horror. By the time the movie was over, the tablets had kicked in and he felt better. He went to bed to try and sleep off this temporary illness. The next morning he felt worse than yesterday. Parts of his abdomen were in pain and the nausea was back worse than before. He considered calling in sick to work, but decided against it.

He worked as a bartender in some crappy dive bar in the centre of town. The work wasn’t hard, but it wasn’t particularly well-paying either. But, it was enough to live on and enough to fund more additions to his hoard. He’ll have to check later on whether the seller of that Goldfinger poster had gotten back to him. But, for now, he’ll spend the day serving drinks to people.

About five hours into his shift, he felt really unwell. There were no customers right now and if someone came in, his colleague could handle it. For now, he ran to the men’s room, found a toilet and emptied his stomach for about five minutes. He wasn’t particularly all together afterwards. If he was, he would’ve noticed these strange things, that looked a little like black maggots, in the toilet bowl. As such, he just flushed them away and went back to work.

About a week passed with no more of those incidents, but the nausea and the pain still stuck around and were only getting worse. One night, he was walking home thinking he’d just fall into bed. But as he walked home, he felt a strange feeling. It was as if his body was trying to change back into his Drakonos form. It wasn’t much to begin with, but after about 20 minutes, it was taking a great effort not to change into his draconic self. Ten minutes later, his ability to resist failed and Aladanis the Drake was revealed to the world.

Unfortunately, he did so in the middle of a crowded street. Realising the problem, Aladanis tried to fly away, to prevent as much Enkindling as possible, but he found that he didn’t have the strength to do so. He tried running, but he found himself slow and sluggish. “Oh, f**k. Oh, F**K!” he thought, over and over again as people all started running and screaming in fear. Soon police sirens rang out and found their way into the street. Unlike the people in the street, these police officers quickly became Slayers.

Bullets were flying out everywhere, hitting Aladanis in all sides. But he found himself unable to fight back. His movements were sluggish, his thoughts slow and that pain in his abdomen was far more intense than ever. Like something was eating its way out. Soon, the Drake fell to the bullets of the new Slayers, but unlike an ordinary death, he remained in his Drakonos. As the police officers went to the corpse of the dragon they saw a pulsating bulge. After a moment, the bulge exploded and hundreds of these strange, black, fly-like creatures burst out, flying in all different directions. When they looked back at the dragon’s corpse, they saw that he had changed into a human. But the flies? They went on, seeking more dragons to perpetuate their life cycle.


So, yeah. A parasite that infects Dragons as part of its life cycle. Again, I don't know why I did this.

Wasn't the demon prince Beelzebub's original purpose to guard sacrifices to the gods from flies before he was interpreted as a demon?

Seems like something that would link to him in a touch of irony (the demonized deity is guarding new ones from the old).

Also, because I'm obsessed with antagonists, imma going to write about the interaction between Slayers and Heroes from Beast: the Primordial. The official game was, after all, originally intended to be about dragons.

I think I'll use that to emphasize the fact that Slayers are actually genuine heroes as opposed to Hero egomania. Quite simply, Slayers worry about collateral damage and becoming worse than the things they fight. A Slayer doesn't hunt their dragon because it makes them more awesome, they do it because they're the best person for the job, and despite the legend will happily admit when something's a little too big for them alone.

Also maybe powers not just based around combat.

[Xallace]

So on thinking on it, is the Dexterous Claws merit important? By this I mean why is it not a standard part of being a dragon since past a certain point you go through alot of trouble or have items resize. I'm thinking all it really does is provide a merit sink for something most dragons are not gonna do anyways with the significant time and resource investment neccesary just to use it. It feels redundant.


Additionally has there been any decisions or progress made on Testaments and Monumemnts,?

Nothing yet on Monuments. Testaments being the equivalent of personal monuments, maybe with a "living, growing" component seems to be where we'd be going with them.

Not sure what I want to do with dextrous claws. I'll have to think on it.


I don't know why I wrote this, but I wrote this.

It started out so innocuously. A strange bite from an insect while he was in Drakonos. “Probably just a horse fly or something”, the Drake Aladanis thought. Nothing to be particularly concerned about, a little blood and something got to eat. Whatever, y’know? Probably gonna get that checked out, later, but right now, it didn’t really matter. He was just content to be away from people, so he could be in his true form. It was an uplifting experience.

He stayed that way for about a day or two, hunting the wildlife for sustenance. But soon, he yearned to be with his hoard again. An entire room of his house, dedicated to 60s films. Posters, memorabilia, tapes. Even a vintage VHS player to play them on. Perhaps he’ll watch Psycho again or maybe The Producers. Ah, hell. He’ll watch them both, why even pretend to be fussed? It was getting late, so now was a good time to head home.

He flew as close to town as he dared, before returning to his Anthropos form, an unassuming man in his 20s wearing a t-shirt and jeans. The very definition of “average”. Which was the point. It was a little harder than usual to change back, but he brushed it aside, probably just tired. He walked back to his apartment in the evening air, feeling a little nauseous he decided to grab some paracetamol when he got in.

An hour later, he was back home and he took a couple of tablets with some water. He decided to put on The Producers. He wasn’t in the mood for some 60s horror. By the time the movie was over, the tablets had kicked in and he felt better. He went to bed to try and sleep off this temporary illness. The next morning he felt worse than yesterday. Parts of his abdomen were in pain and the nausea was back worse than before. He considered calling in sick to work, but decided against it.

He worked as a bartender in some crappy dive bar in the centre of town. The work wasn’t hard, but it wasn’t particularly well-paying either. But, it was enough to live on and enough to fund more additions to his hoard. He’ll have to check later on whether the seller of that Goldfinger poster had gotten back to him. But, for now, he’ll spend the day serving drinks to people.

About five hours into his shift, he felt really unwell. There were no customers right now and if someone came in, his colleague could handle it. For now, he ran to the men’s room, found a toilet and emptied his stomach for about five minutes. He wasn’t particularly all together afterwards. If he was, he would’ve noticed these strange things, that looked a little like black maggots, in the toilet bowl. As such, he just flushed them away and went back to work.

About a week passed with no more of those incidents, but the nausea and the pain still stuck around and were only getting worse. One night, he was walking home thinking he’d just fall into bed. But as he walked home, he felt a strange feeling. It was as if his body was trying to change back into his Drakonos form. It wasn’t much to begin with, but after about 20 minutes, it was taking a great effort not to change into his draconic self. Ten minutes later, his ability to resist failed and Aladanis the Drake was revealed to the world.

Unfortunately, he did so in the middle of a crowded street. Realising the problem, Aladanis tried to fly away, to prevent as much Enkindling as possible, but he found that he didn’t have the strength to do so. He tried running, but he found himself slow and sluggish. “Oh, f**k. Oh, F**K!” he thought, over and over again as people all started running and screaming in fear. Soon police sirens rang out and found their way into the street. Unlike the people in the street, these police officers quickly became Slayers.

Bullets were flying out everywhere, hitting Aladanis in all sides. But he found himself unable to fight back. His movements were sluggish, his thoughts slow and that pain in his abdomen was far more intense than ever. Like something was eating its way out. Soon, the Drake fell to the bullets of the new Slayers, but unlike an ordinary death, he remained in his Drakonos. As the police officers went to the corpse of the dragon they saw a pulsating bulge. After a moment, the bulge exploded and hundreds of these strange, black, fly-like creatures burst out, flying in all different directions. When they looked back at the dragon’s corpse, they saw that he had changed into a human. But the flies? They went on, seeking more dragons to perpetuate their life cycle.


So, yeah. A parasite that infects Dragons as part of its life cycle. Again, I don't know why I did this.

While that was a definitely a creepy and fun read, I'm not sure how much of a place it has in the dragon game. I'm not really sure what we'd do with it.

Edit: Though it occurs to me now that many of the dragon-related fauna could be the results of House Echidna...


Wasn't the demon prince Beelzebub's original purpose to guard sacrifices to the gods from flies before he was interpreted as a demon?

Seems like something that would link to him in a touch of irony (the demonized deity is guarding new ones from the old).

Also, because I'm obsessed with antagonists, imma going to write about the interaction between Slayers and Heroes from Beast: the Primordial. The official game was, after all, originally intended to be about dragons.

I think I'll use that to emphasize the fact that Slayers are actually genuine heroes as opposed to Hero egomania. Quite simply, Slayers worry about collateral damage and becoming worse than the things they fight. A Slayer doesn't hunt their dragon because it makes them more awesome, they do it because they're the best person for the job, and despite the legend will happily admit when something's a little too big for them alone.

Also maybe powers not just based around combat.

That'd be cool. I've been wanting to flesh Slayers out a good bit more. Also have to work on the rogue dynasties a bit, especially their legacies... man, these legacies, just gotta push and get some stuff down on paper.

[Sgt. Cookie]

House Echinda?

To be honest, I'd have pegged them as something the Tarasques would cultivate. A small creature capable of forcing a Dragon to reveal itself to the world and unable to fight back? Sounds like something that's right up their alley.

You know, now that I think about it, it was probably that gif of that Mantis infected by a Horsehair worm that inspired this. Yeesh those things are creepy.

[Xallace]

House Echinda?

To be honest, I'd have pegged them as something the Tarasques would cultivate. A small creature capable of forcing a Dragon to reveal itself to the world and unable to fight back? Sounds like something that's right up their alley.

You know, now that I think about it, it was probably that gif of that Mantis infected by a Horsehair worm that inspired this. Yeesh those things are creepy.

The Tarasques aren't really into magically engineering draconic fauna. More dragons == bad for everyone, after all. House Echidna is all about that life, though, normalizing dragons and merging normal creatures into them in a bid to fool fate. Actually, if you're interested in draconic fauna, they might be something you'd like to help us write up?

[Amechra]

As a general note of interest, I thought I'd link the tentative new weapon rules from Hurt Locker. (http://theonyxpath.com/hurt-locker-open-dev-dump-3-weapons-and-equipment/) Might be interesting to compare, say, fire-breath and the new flame-throwers. Looks like they went with the "long burst autofire" option as well - I kinda like that they stuck with it just being a long-burst autofire.

I mean, I don't know if I like the idea that every Dragon that can vomit up fire can also spit accurate bolts of the stuff. My image of dragon-breath has always been a "spray" of fire, and I feel that sniping people with fire should be a special trick that you pick up from Styles (like Fusilier Breath •••), or as an Auxiliary.

Also, the spoiled rules also have a Burning tilt. Just thought I'd call attention to that (because everything on fire.)

Which brings me to another question - should we put in a way to change what your "fire" breath is? After all, dragons in legend spat everything from acidic venom to lightning to torrents of water. Maybe have a merit that lets you switch for a different "element", and a Persistent Condition that restricts you to just using one of the alternatives (take a Beat when it would be really handy to light stuff on fire.)

[One Tin Soldier]

As a general note of interest, I thought I'd link the tentative new weapon rules from Hurt Locker. (http://theonyxpath.com/hurt-locker-open-dev-dump-3-weapons-and-equipment/) Might be interesting to compare, say, fire-breath and the new flame-throwers. Looks like they went with the "long burst autofire" option as well - I kinda like that they stuck with it just being a long-burst autofire.

I mean, I don't know if I like the idea that every Dragon that can vomit up fire can also spit accurate bolts of the stuff. My image of dragon-breath has always been a "spray" of fire, and I feel that sniping people with fire should be a special trick that you pick up from Styles (like Fusilier Breath •••), or as an Auxiliary.

Also, the spoiled rules also have a Burning tilt. Just thought I'd call attention to that (because everything on fire.)

Which brings me to another question - should we put in a way to change what your "fire" breath is? After all, dragons in legend spat everything from acidic venom to lightning to torrents of water. Maybe have a merit that lets you switch for a different "element", and a Persistent Condition that restricts you to just using one of the alternatives (take a Beat when it would be really handy to light stuff on fire.)

I did read through those this morning as well. Notably, it does specify that flamethrowers have successes add to damage, but only up to a certain maximum. And the Burning Tilt is pretty much exactly the Exceptional Success / River of Flame effect, so it might be a good idea to work it in to those.

We considered being able to change element of your fire breath early on, but ultimately dismissed it as being a bit too D&D.

(Spitting poison falls under Poison of Fafnir)

[Amechra]

Hey, D&D got it from somewhere! Oh well, the Garuda can probably have LIGHTNING-BREATH. It seems like something they would have.

I also just noticed that fire-breath has some serious range. I'm on the fence about it; one side thinks that that's totally sweet, and the other side agrees completely. (http://www.beeserker.com/comics/the-direct-approach/)

[Almarck]

It'd also be easier to not have to juggle so many different elemental breath weapons. While, I admit, I'd like a dragon who can breathe poison gas or spit spike, the fluff for Breath of the Inferno atleast, what can be implied, kinda implies that is a manifestation of will. Regardless, I feel that if dragons get alternate breath weapons or any different matters of attacks, they'd be best off being additional secondary Legacies - they are not core to being a dragon, so ergo, they do not work under Breath of the Inferno and are wholy seperate from it. Maybe a hidden house or two has ice breath?


... also, on the note of D&D, are we going to be adding undead dragons of some description? Mostly, I've just realized we're totally lacking in undead or death manipulation powers,something of a... standard every Splt in NWoD is some connection to death. Maybe a hidden house or further antagonists. Would be interesting to see ancient, undying god-dragons that refuse to give their descendants their rightful "Inheritance".



Lastly, on thinking of Monuments and Testiments, I'm thinking that for them maybe taking a page from spirit rules and using the Power, Finesse, and Resilience attributes might help define them. For Testaments, this can be then as simple as the dragon getting points based on Kau or Legacies to spend on upgrading the "Attributes" of his Testiment.

[Amechra]

Zombie Dragons, you say? (http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/599-zombie-creation-system-from-antagonists-updated-to-gmc?p=363079#post363079)

EDIT: On the subject of Testaments and Ephemeral Being rules... Manifestations can give you some "weight" towards having certain goals completed. I mean, imagine if taking on a Testament meant that you'd eventually get Claimed by it...

[Almarck]

Zombie Dragons, you say? (http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/599-zombie-creation-system-from-antagonists-updated-to-gmc?p=363079#post363079)

Man, Ame, you're so good, you answer my questions months in advance

[Xallace]

It'd also be easier to not have to juggle so many different elemental breath weapons. While, I admit, I'd like a dragon who can breathe poison gas or spit spike, the fluff for Breath of the Inferno atleast, what can be implied, kinda implies that is a manifestation of will. Regardless, I feel that if dragons get alternate breath weapons or any different matters of attacks, they'd be best off being additional secondary Legacies - they are not core to being a dragon, so ergo, they do not work under Breath of the Inferno and are wholy seperate from it. Maybe a hidden house or two has ice breath?

One of the original ideas for a drake legacy was to breathe poison gas, but that was about all that made it into the latest versions of the game. I'm currently drafting up the new Waters of Hualong legacy, though, and I'm thinking that instead of making a small raincloud to create water ex nihilo a wyrm would be able to breathe out pure water. Perhaps at fire hose intensity.

It'd even be potable, if you can stomach drinking something that a giant lizard just vomited up.

As for other breath types, I'm not outright striking down any ideas, but I can say that fire breath is staying the main jam for dragons. Hidden Houses or future legacies might have breath-like powers, however.



... also, on the note of D&D, are we going to be adding undead dragons of some description? Mostly, I've just realized we're totally lacking in undead or death manipulation powers,something of a... standard every Splt in NWoD is some connection to death. Maybe a hidden house or further antagonists. Would be interesting to see ancient, undying god-dragons that refuse to give their descendants their rightful "Inheritance".

Yeah, dragons don't really have much to do with manipulating death and the underworld. We never found a good place to fit it in, and dragons always seemed so much more grounded in the material, living world anyway (it's one of the reasons they don't have an "otherworld," like the Hedge or the Hisil).

I've got two pieces of Geist homebrew if anyone's interested in seeing some death stuff, though.Shamelessselfpromotion

Some monuments might have interesting interactions with ghosts but that might be about it for mainstream dragons. As far as hidden houses, that's a possibility (though we really need to fill out the one's we have :smallsigh:), though I doubt dracoliches would be their own antagonist faction. Unless House Orobouros really does figure out immortality, and the answer is dracolichdom. That could be a fun antagonist for a campaign.



Lastly, on thinking of Monuments and Testiments, I'm thinking that for them maybe taking a page from spirit rules and using the Power, Finesse, and Resilience attributes might help define them. For Testaments, this can be then as simple as the dragon getting points based on Kau or Legacies to spend on upgrading the "Attributes" of his Testiment.

It's a possibility, though those attributes would likely mean something different for Monuments and Testaments than they would for most spirit types. We've discussed the idea of Testaments having a Kau score, and also encouraging you to build a hoard of whatever the Testator dragon was building. It's really up in the air what they would actually do, though.

[Sgt. Cookie]

House Echidna is all about that life, though, normalizing dragons and merging normal creatures into them in a bid to fool fate. Actually, if you're interested in draconic fauna, they might be something you'd like to help us write up?

It would be an honour. *Extravagent bow*

Tell me what you need from me.

[Almarck]

I'd approve of more ways to sput out junk and weaponize it. So, I am fine with those things.


And not surprised we're not doing Dracoliches... but then again, I did say it was D&D inspired.

Onto less D&D inspired content. Should Monument versus Monument "combat" be a thing? estentially... I want to know what your thoughts on a "war waged by ideals."

[Xallace]

Onto less D&D inspired content. Should Monument versus Monument "combat" be a thing? estentially... I want to know what your thoughts on a "war waged by ideals."

At the very least, we will need to address what happens if you have conflicting monuments in an area. Obviously, the optimal situation is that the monuments all gel harmoniously and the Empire is reborn just a little bit more, but dragons are too self-absorbed for that to always be the case. Not to mention other things controlling them (which I keep forgetting is a possibility).


It would be an honour. *Extravagent bow*

Tell me what you need from me.

Well, we don't have much regarding any of the Hidden Houses right now, so exactly what template to follow I cannot say. The general idea behind Hidden Houses is that they are proto-dynasties, not having the proper following to secure a real group identity, but enough of one for some benefits to be returned to those under the banner.

House Echidna is taking the somewhat mad science-y route of trying to engineer dragons and other creatures together in the hopes that it will fool Fate, or perhaps just normalize dragons so much that they're basically on top again. It's... really no wonder why they can't get a hold as a dynasty. Fleshcrafting is not for the faint of heart, even if it has potentially resulted in adorable things like Hoardlings.

I suppose, just have fun with it and we'll see how it turns out.

[One Tin Soldier]

I'd recommend looking at the Z-splats from other gamelines, like Vampire Bloodlines, Mage Legacies, Werewolf Lodges, etc. That should give you a general idea of how they work. (Though don't worry too much about balancing the powers with those. Their power level... varies. Wildly.)

EDIT: I have added in Eris's auxiliary suggestions, as well as a new 4 dot Hide of Iron aux, and a writeup of the new Sorcery fluff. I also removed Iron Mind, as it's effects are now covered by Breath of the Inferno and Grace of the Host.

[Xallace]

(Though don't worry too much about balancing the powers with those. Their power level... varies. Wildly.)

Within werewolf lodges alone you range from a predetermined specialty (a highly situational +1 bonus) to a +4 bonus on any roll, mundane or magic, that even remotely requires fire and a whole unique gift list. Let us worry about balance.

Edit: Also, since Unique Legacies no longer follow any of the rules of regular legacies, we were thinking of changing what they're called. How do "Birthrights" sound to everyone?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Understood.

Current thoughts of House Echinda is that they only sprung up when the Human arts of science arose. As such, small aspects of them over the years were likely at the centre of large, historical scientific achievements. Were Newton or Galileo Heirs? Highly unlikely. But it wouldn't be a waste of money to bet that someone close to them was.

In the past, they would have experimented on a wide variety of creatures, creating strange and exotic animals in a bid to refine their art. Many a young Heir, upon learning of their existence, has wondered how much of Australia is their fault.

Unless there are some pre-written rules for this sort of thing (Which I'll adapt, otherwise, gonna have to build them from scratch), I'm thinking that the core legacy of House Echinda is some sort of Extended Action where the Echindian uses both science and sorcery to alter and adapt a creature. A Cat with Crab Pincers? Go for it. A Dog that can change his coat like a chameleon? Why not?

Some of the higher level auxiliaries will allow the Echindian to apply Draconic features to animals.

Of the currently thought-of creatures, the Hoardlings and those Drakonos-inducing flies, I have a couple of ideas. The Hoardlings were modified rats, albeit modified a loooooooong time ago, and those flies are probably the only regret they have (Something that puts the Draconic society AT LARGE at risk? Uh, oops. That's kinda the opposite of our goal.). Originally, they would have been used as a vector, but they failed and, well, escaped.

How's that sound, so far?

[One Tin Soldier]

So since Unique Legacies have become so different from the other Legacies, Xallace and I were thinking that changing the name might be a good idea. The first thing he thought of was Birthright, which I think sounds good.

What does the thread think? And should we call them Birthright Legacies, or just Birthrights?


Understood.

Current thoughts of House Echinda is that they only sprung up when the Human arts of science arose. As such, small aspects of them over the years were likely at the centre of large, historical scientific achievements. Were Newton or Galileo Heirs? Highly unlikely. But it wouldn't be a waste of money to bet that someone close to them was.

In the past, they would have experimented on a wide variety of creatures, creating strange and exotic animals in a bid to refine their art. Many a young Heir, upon learning of their existence, has wondered how much of Australia is their fault.

Hah!


Unless there are some pre-written rules for this sort of thing (Which I'll adapt, otherwise, gonna have to build them from scratch), I'm thinking that the core legacy of House Echinda is some sort of Extended Action where the Echindian uses both science and sorcery to alter and adapt a creature. A Cat with Crab Pincers? Go for it. A Dog that can change his coat like a chameleon? Why not?

Some of the higher level auxiliaries will allow the Echindian to apply Draconic features to animals.

Of the currently thought-of creatures, the Hoardlings and those Drakonos-inducing flies, I have a couple of ideas. The Hoardlings were modified rats, albeit modified a loooooooong time ago, and those flies are probably the only regret they have (Something that puts the Draconic society AT LARGE at risk? Uh, oops. That's kinda the opposite of our goal.). Originally, they would have been used as a vector, but they failed and, well, escaped.

How's that sound, so far?

It sounds good to me so far. Genetic manipulation by way of magic. I'm always a sucker for magitech, so this sounds like fun to me.
(Personally, I would have namedropped Mendel and Darwin instead of Newton and Galileo, but that's not that important.)

[Almarck]

I was thinking of calling them Inheritances since they're part of the whole... shtick, ya?
Or just... Heritages or Heritage Legacies.

Anyways, just finished up this train of thought for Monument rules in case you have yet to define it fully. It's... interesting, to say the least. I add a few more concepts and terms to define Monument specific terminology as well as put place holder information.



No matter how strong or powerful an individual Heir becomes, the fact of the matter is that Heirs are still mortal, able to perish from illness, injury, and misfortune. Make no mistake, Heirs are blessed with powerful bodies able to recover from many illnesses and ailments that lesser creatures would succumb to, able to shrug off the worst that war can do to it. Yet this body is still temporary; no dragon, not even in the ancient, long forgotten Empire truly tasted immortally.

Let no dragon is simply willing to let their Will end with them, they were not content to just let death be the end of them. To this end, Heirs devised a means to allow those that come after them to carry on for them, to enact their Will from beyond the mortal coil. They might not be ruling themselves, but Monuments are as the next best thing.

Monuments are the physical manifestation and representation of an idea or concept empowered and backed by its creator’s Will. Each fulfills a function instilled from the moment of its creation and influences the world around them in subtle and not so subtle ways. The creator of the Monument, hereafter described as an Architect defines all of the aspects of the Monument from its powers, to its goals, to its rules of succession. There is no rule about monuments not also having mundane functions such as important libraries of the sort.

However, as stated before, dragons are not immortal and thus they do die. When this happens, Monuments seek out new owners as defined by the Architect's Will, influencing Fate and events to bring itself into contact with a new Steward. However, sometimes, an individual attempts to force control over the Monument, in effect forcing himself to become the new Steward. Stewards and Architects need not perish in order for a Monument to change control over to another, but most dragons are not too keen on letting the ultimate Heirlooms fall out of their grasp… Either way, once a new Steward is proclaimed, the Monument is fully and totally obedient to his Will so long as it does not directly clash with that of the Architect that created it.

Dragons are not the only creatures able to create and control Monuments. Hives and Garuda are known for their own structures often representing their ideals made manifest. In fact, it is not unthinkable that some monuments were constructed by wholly mortal hands.


Monument Rules:
-Obeys it Architect or Steward’s Will.
-Has the 3 Spirit attributes of Power, Finesse, and Resillience, but none of the Derived statistics of Health, Corpus, Willpower, Essence, Defense, or Initiatve.. Monuments have ranks, but these only exist to keep track of attribute maximums. These attributes are used for enacting Powers.
-Monuments otherwise function as normal versions of the object or building they are built to represent, such as a Library or Statue.
-In place of Health or Corpus, Monuments possess Morale, a measure of their standing and stability. Morale is equal to Resillience times 2 and recovers at a rate of the lower of Finesse or Power per day. If a Monument loses all Morale, it shuts down, becoming dormant until it recovers all Morale.

-Monuments possess an Influence/powers as defined by its Architect. Using powers drains Morale.
-In addition, depending on who the current Steward is, the Monument gains either the Dragon Song (for dragons), Bird Song (for Garuda), or Assimilate (for Hives) dread power. If the Steward changes control, the Monument loses this dread power and replaces it with one appropriate to it.

-Monuments do not have standard turns of initiative, unless they manifest as creature. Instead, all Monuments (that are still object) are given turns via “Tension” as defined below.

Tension defines the speed at which Monuments may act. During times of peace, they are slow, passive, but when idealogy and purpose are on the line, they are called into service and act more rapidly and impressively, but drain much faster.

At Tension 0, Monuments receive a single “turn” once per day.
At 1, this changes to once per 12 hours.
At 2, 6 hours.
At 3, 3 hours.
At 4, 1 hour
At 5, every 15 minutes.
At 6, they act every turn.




Tension is a “Global” mechanic that persists for long periods of time only lessened as danger and events wind down to less dangerous and volatile states. It increases as plot conflicts arrise, especially when other Monuments are involved. All Monuments act on the same “initiative” of their Stewards if it is ever called into question and all Monuments involved are on the same Tension, thus acting in the same rate.

At the end of every scene, if any of the following occur roll dice as determined by the event. If more than one of these events occur, total the dice together, then roll the dice. On a success, Tension increases by 1. On an Exceptional Success, Tension increases by 2.


-Steward receives a Tilt. 1 per Tilt.
-Monument damaged by other monument as an attack. 1 per success.
-Steward’s foes verbally disrespect his ideals. 2 per insult.
-Foe directly disrespects the Monument. 3 per insult.

-Other Monument Steward owns is destroyed. Raise Tension by 1 immediately.
-Monument physically under attack by hostile forces. Raise Tension by 1 immediately.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Personally, I would have namedropped Mendel and Darwin instead of Newton and Galileo, but that's not that important.)

Yeah, just had to think of some scientists. Will change 'em in the "official", uh, thing.




As an aside, I'm actually playing Mendel in Fiddler on the Roof in about 20 mins. Coincidences, huh?

[Xallace]

I spent some time on Waters of Hualong. How's this for beefy?

Waters of Hualong

0
The wyrm is the supreme aquatic being, a master of all things in river and ocean. This mastery reveals itself in the first dot of Waters of Hualong, which removes the dangers of life beneath the sea and reinforces her sovereignty over it.

As an aquatic creature, the dragon’s Drakonos gains the ability to swim up to her Speed without making any sort of Athletics checks. She is just as capable of breathing water as air in Drakonos, and can spend as long as she likes underwater. While in Anthropos, the wyrm adds her dots in this legacy to her Stamina for the purpose of holding her breath.

The dragon is the lord over all other beasts of the sea. She becomes capable of communicating with any aquatic or amphibious life, both understanding and making herself understood. Further, all such creatures will not attack or interfere with the dragon of their own accord. They will fight back if the dragon attacks, but will never strike first unless magically coerced. Even the hungriest shark will not try to take a bite out of the dragon.

But the dragon is not just lord of those under the waves, but the waves themselves. While in Drakonos, the wyrm is never hindered by any environmental tilt or condition resulting from water. No matter how choppy the waves, harsh the rapids, or pressuring the deep, the dragon will always be just fine. She swims just as well in a still pond as a violent rush of water.

The wyrm’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

00
The wyrm can dig her claws into the water around her and transmute it into other forms. As an instant action, any water or water-based liquid that the wyrm is touching transforms into another water-based liquid of her choice. Water turns to wine, wine turns to root beer, or root beer turns to gasoline. She can transmute a number of size points in one round equal to her Kauchaomai score.

Alternatively, water can be ruined or purified through this method. Any impurities can simply be removed, leaving behind pure, drinkable water. If the dragon chooses to ruin a liquid, nameless impurities are added to the drink that cause horrible smells and discoloration. Any creature that drinks the water will very likely become sick.

Water can also be made to change matter states using this Birthright. Steam can be quickly condensed into water, water into ice, or ice into water or steam again. Water can simply be made to boil or cool to a drinkable temperature, as well. Again, the limit is simply a number of size points per round equal to the dragon’s Kauchaomai. Water being used as weapon (such as a firehose against a group of humans) deals lethal damage if transmuted into ice or boiling water deals lethal damage instead of bashing.

Any of these effects can be used within perception range by spending a point of Willpower per round. She cannot transmute the water that makes up parts of living beings with this Birthright.

The wyrm’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

000

A creature of the water herself, the wyrm’s power of water starts to infuse into her own form. She becomes remarkably graceful, flowing with liquid prowess like a beautiful and elegant flow of water.

The dragon can walk upon water, in either form, should she choose to do so. She can begin or end this power at any time, dropping into the water while standing or placing her hands on the surface and pulling her up onto it like a ledge. She can also spend a point of Willpower as a Reflexive action to add her Kauchaomai to her Defense and Athletics and Expression checks to balance, jump, swim, or appear especially graceful for a scene.

The dragon’s swim speed doubles.She can spend a point of Willpower to gain this swim speed in Anthropos form, and she may even use this speed while standing atop the water - effectively becoming a human speedboat.

Finally, the dragon can control the water around her with mere force of will.

Action: Reflexive
Cost: 1 Willpower
Roll: Dexterity + Kauchaomai - Size of water to be controlled

Dramatic Failure: The water rebels against the dragon, whipping out and dealing them two points of Bashing damage. The effect is obviously supernatural and the dragon must roll Enkindling if humans notice.
Failure: The water remains how it is, unbending to the dragon’s will.
Success or Exceptional Success: The dragon takes command of the water.

If the dragon takes control of the water, she may take any of the following actions:

Move: The water can move up to 10 yards as a Reflexive action, once per turn.

Shape Water: The water can be morphed into pleasing or useful shapes. These shapes can be “hard,” with surface tension strong enough that they act like solid objects, or “soft,” so that they are shaped like an object but still act like water. No shape more complex than a simple machine (lever, lift, pulley, etc) can be made this way, and intricate models may require a Dexterity + Crafts roll, as the Storyteller sees fit.

Entertain: The water can be used to entertain onlookers by assuming fun shapes or doing neat tricks. This is an extended action that requires a Dexterity + Expression + Kauchaomai roll every minute, but is otherwise treated as any other Expression roll.

Attack: The water can be used to attack as an Instant action. This requires a Dexterity + Athletics - Defense roll. The water deals Bashing damage and gains a damage bonus equal to its Size - 1. The water can be moved up to 10 yards as part of this action.

Defense: The water can be used to defend the dragon. When Dodging, the dragon may spend a Willpower point to add the water’s Size to Defense, after doubling. The water immediately rushes to the Wyrm’s side when this maneuver is used.

Push: The water can be used to push objects or creatures around. The Dragon must roll Dexterity + Athletics - Size (for an object) or Strength (for a creature) as an Instant action. Each success pushes a target 3 yards in a direction of the dragon’s choosing.

Control over the water remains for the remainder of the scene or until the dragon relinquishes control, whichever comes first.

The wyrm’s Drakonos gains one point of size.


0000

The dragon is the water, and the water is the dragon. The wyrm’s very form is infused with the spirit of the waves, and it allows her remarkable capabilities.

The dragon can create pure water from its essence within her. She can now produce water from her hands or mouth, which is pure and potable (though can be changed with previous dots of this Birthright). The water can appear gently, filling her cupped hands or pouring lightly into a container of her choosing, or it can appear with force, spraying from her hands or mouth like a sprinkler… or a geyser. The most force produced is equivalent to that of a fire hose, and it can be used to harm a target or put out fires in the same way a fire hose would. The water is real and only disappears when it would evaporate into the water cycle. It costs a point of Willpower as a Reflexive action to be able to produce water for the scene.

But it does not stop there. The dragon can pull surrounding water into her form to restore it. While in Drakonos, the dragon can use an Instant action to heal a number of points of Bashing or Lethal damage equal to her Kauchaomai, so long as she is at least halfway submerged in water. This will likewise heal tilts or conditions brought on by that damage. If she is in Tyranos form, this happens automatically once per round.

This leads into the final benefit of reaching this height of power: the dragon can bring out the aquatic essence of surrounding liquid and use it to forge her Drakonos. If she enters Drakonos while fully submerged in enough water to contain her Drakonos form, her human body dissipates into the abyss, and from the surface rises a terrifying serpent of pure water. This form pulls from the surrounding liquid and grants additional size to the dragon equal to her Kauchaomai dots, with attendant benefits. She can now create water (as per the first part of this power) without needing to spend Willpower. She can easily move into the spaces occupied by other creatures, and any space she occupies gains the Flooded tilt. She heals while submerged automatically each round, as though in Tyranos form.

She may also forge her Tyranos from water. Many of the same benefits apply, although enhanced by her new Kauchaomai score and legacies. Additionally, she can spend an Instant action to heal one Aggravated damage each round she remains fully submerged in water. Most horribly, she can transmute herself into a tidal wave with a height in yards equal to her size and width of half that much. By spending a point of Willpower as an Instant action, she rushes forward a number of yards equal to her speed. All creatures and objects in the path take Bashing damage equal to her Strength + Kauchamai. Creatures may make reflexive Dexterity + Athletics rolls to avoid the current, with each successes negating one point of damage. Creatures that fail the roll are swept the length of the current and deposited on the far end, at the feet of the reformed dragon.

Finally, the wyrm’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size, as with every dot of the Birthright.


00000

The dragon is now the supreme ruler of river and sea. Her powers are virtually limitless over the water that surrounds her, and she can change the natural course of water’s flow.

The dragon can alter the natural currents of the water around her. By spending 4 points of Willpower and focusing her attention on a waterway, she can divert the natural flow of any stream or river with a width of her Kauchaomai x 10 yards or less. She can force the water to overflow its banks or simply carve out a new path into the land, permanently altering that part of the landscape. She cannot control the full course of the river or stream, only the parts she can perceive, and must make her way down river to further alter the course. Waterways change course at a rate of about five yards a minute, and the dragon must be able to focus the entire time to complete the change.

Lakes or ponds can likewise be moved, so long as they fall within the size range necessary for the power. If made to “change course,” they simply carve out a new hole in the ground as they move along, their old position drying up and filling in as it moves.

The dragon can also choose for the waters to cause apocalyptic, indiscriminate destruction. This requires 5 points of Willpower and an Instant action. All waterways, ponds, and lakes immediately overflow their banks and flood the surrounding areas. Water towers and pipes burst, and other artificial containers break open. Geysers erupt if the geology of the area could sustain them, and torrential rains pour from the sky if the clouds are overhead.

Essentially, an area with a diameter of (Kauchaomai) miles undergoes apocalyptic flooding, with devastation measuring in lives lost and millions of dollars of property damage. The exact effects cannot be contained within simple game mechanics, and the horror is best left up the Storyteller to describe.

The wyrm’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

[Almarck]

Most impressive. Now that feels like something a dragon that is master of the water would have.

Lots of power lts of destruction.


Correct me if am I wrong but are auxiliaries getting removed from Birthrights?

[Amechra]

They're folded into the body of the powers.

It looks overly verbose to me, but that's just me.

(Break a leg, Cookie!)

[Sgt. Cookie]

Does anyone have a good name for those Drakonos-inducing flies? Because I can't think of one right now. "Drakosquito" is about the best I can come up with.

[Almarck]

Does anyone have a good name for those Drakonos-inducing flies? Because I can't think of one right now. "Drakosquito" is about the best I can come up with.


I think that might be a little too silly of a name.

I also can't say I am really sold on the concept because I do not understand how they fit in.
-Dragons identify as dragons with human form being a disguise they take. It's kind of the point and why as they rise in Kau it starts becoming hard to maintain or assume a human identity.
-Addionally, why a mosquito? And why ...and how does it work? Such things kind of need to be thought of. I mean, are we talking magical cursed flies that are closely related to Fate or something?
-Despite your intro fiction, it still feels a little silly for dragons to have little as an antagonist that is capable of being a serious threat to them, but I suppose that is poetic for something so tiny to being such a huge threat. The WoD does have similar creatures all over the place....



With that out of the way though, might I suggest Psuedo-Latin? Like say... uh Drakonis Vespertes? It's probably the wrong words for it, but it sounds more refined.

[One Tin Soldier]

Does anyone have a good name for those Drakonos-inducing flies? Because I can't think of one right now. "Drakosquito" is about the best I can come up with.


I think that might be a little too silly of a name.

I also can't say I am really sold on the concept because I do not understand how they fit in.
-Dragons identify as dragons with human form being a disguise they take. It's kind of the point and why as they rise in Kau it starts becoming hard to maintain or assume a human identity.
-Addionally, why a mosquito? And why ...and how does it work? Such things kind of need to be thought of. I mean, are we talking magical cursed flies that are closely related to Fate or something?
-Despite your intro fiction, it still feels a little silly for dragons to have little as an antagonist that is capable of being a serious threat to them, but I suppose that is poetic for something so tiny to being such a huge threat. The WoD does have similar creatures all over the place....



With that out of the way though, might I suggest Psuedo-Latin? Like say... uh Drakonis Vespertes? It's probably the wrong words for it, but it sounds more refined.

I'm fine with them being weird House Echinda mad-science creations.

And I can't believe the thought didn't occur to me until now, its so obvious.

Dragonflies

[Sgt. Cookie]

@Almarck:

It's likely that they were mosquitoes originally, due to the fact that they infect humans with Malaria. If you were to replace the Malaria parasite with a retrovirus that contains Draconic genetic material, you'd have the perfect vector to transmit Dragon DNA to the masses. Send them out, they'll bite Humans and the Retrovirus will rewrite their DNA to become more Draconic in nature. Perfect, right?

Well, no.

What House Echinda didn't count on was the retrovirus altering the DNA of the mosquitoes themselves, changing them into something far more Draconic. On the one hand, the retrovirus worked, on the other it now created a problem. The "Drakonium Parasitus", as it was now dubbed, could only breed inside of Dragons. Unfortunately, a batch of these creatures escaped and an even more horrifying aspect was discovered.

They can force an Heir to assume Drakonos. How they manage this has not quite been identified, yet, but the working theory is that it has something to do chemicals injected into the Heir's bloodstream affecting the parts of the brain that control that ability. Of course, this didn't spring up overnight, it took more than a few generations of these things to "perfect" their life cycle.

On the flipside, once a Drakonium Parasitus infection is discovered, it's actually quite simple to remove them from the Heir's body.


Unrelated, but I'm fairly sure these guys are Drakes:

http://i.imgur.com/D9rnH7z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tyBpmay.jpg

[Xallace]

So I'm not fully sold on using ephemeral being rules for Monuments, but I do like the idea behind Morale and the Architect/Steward dynamic. If you take the option to enhance the consciousness of the monument into a full entity then it might gain the ephemeral traits, but I'm not feeling it for most of them.

The things I am interested in that we've discussed so far include the following:

Tiers (Clutch/Local/Dynastic/Higher?) that influence power and abilities
Morale, or a system like it
Architects/Stewards
Claimed Monuments count as Touchstones for dragons


I'll come back to this with a more complete idea of my own input for monuments, don't have much time right now.

[Almarck]

The reason to have Empherial traits as standard for all Monuments is a simple one: In order to actually give monuments statistics to measure so that they can interact abd be interacted with, attributes have to be given. If for nothing else, so you can figure out how much resistance a tiger statue will put up before letting you command it as a new familiar.

It's not like I am asking for Monuments to have Willpower, Corpus, or Essense, just the 3 Attributes to determne... everything else. Certainly, if there are any Monument powers that need to be contested, such as mental domination, you kind of need to define how powerful the Monument is when using this power.

It also skirts the issue of having to arbitrarily or fashioning a cut off point to determining at what level does a Monument lack attributes, versus at what point would a Monument would have them.


Anyways enough about that. I am glad you liked Morale. The idea is that it is both Mana and Health at the same time, though I suppose that has problems of its own.



Anyways. Cookie, I had an idea. What if the flies also affected normal humans, turning them into partially draconic cretures? Maybe they act as carriers of "seeds" the House of Echidna uses for testing?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Yeah, actually, I can see that. The Drakonium (Which sounds like an ore, when its standalone like that) still carrying new strains of the retrovirus. They change not only Humans, but animals into some sort of vague, Dragon-like abomination so that they're more compatible as Hosts.

This is exactly the kind of screw-up mad, Draconic scientists would make. Or perhaps it's Fate saying "Nooo, nooo. You no make progress.". Echindians, being scientists first and foremost, prefer to not think of the latter.

[Almarck]

Maybe less.... science should be involved and more ... mothers. Mothers who are obsessed about "adoption" in all of the wrong ways.


Additionally: some Monument powers.

Dragon Song
Cost 1 Morale
Roll Power
1 Turn

The Moonument radiates a glow of energy that proclaims the glories and truths of dragons in descrete and subtle ways. The Steward gains a bonus dice towards Enkindling and social rolls so long as she is in her Drakonos equal to successes.

Additionally, those nearby the statue at any point during the day Dragon Song is used other than the Steward or Archetect receive the Monument's Aspiration as a bonus Aspiration for a number of days equal to successes. This does not count against the subject's Aspirations and it counts for all intents and purposes as the character's own, but the subject is only allowed to have one Monument instilled Aspiration at any point in time. To change the subject's Monument given Aspiration, another Monument must beat or match the number of successes of the previous current Monument.

Subjects in daily contact with the Monument "renew" the duration of Dragon Song each day they are in contact that instilled that Aspiration.


So, I've been thinking, one of the things that is new in 2e is that character goals are now a functional game mechanic of sort. So I figure, maybe Monuments add goals too that roster.
Monuments would have an Aspiration given to it by its Steward or Architect and part of the function of Monuments in general is to instill this Aspiration within others.

This encourages that those whoare not the Steward to follow these monument given impulses without, well, being forced into it.

From a metagaming perpective, the beats rewards means that PCs subjected to a Monument would be tempted to follow its owner's ideals.



Create Guardian
Cost 1 Morale
No roll.
1 Turn
The Monument creates some sort of Guardian as defined by the Architect or Steward at the time this power is taken.

When this Guardian is activated, the Monument falls into dormancy and is unable to be attacked through psychic means so long as the Guardian remains standing. Other Monuments may not attack its Morale, though they may attempt to physically damage the Monument.

If the Guardian is destroyed, the Monument suffers Morale damage and is no longer invulnerable against Morale attacks.

[Eris]

My take on the Hunger birthright. Most of it is simply the original auxiliaries modified a bit. I like the fluff of consuming attacks on the fifth dots, but at the same point it might be too complex, and the swallowing attacks might fit better at a lower tier. At the least this should help fit in with the other Birthright changes we were discussing, even if it isn't the most clean write up. I also may have just been reading about ungoliant before writing this.

Hunger of Nidhögg

0

The wyvern Drakonos possesses a massive and terrible maw full of sword-like teeth, a great and powerful tool meant for carving through and consuming nearly anything. The wyvern gains a powerful bite attack that deals 1L, which stacks with any damage bonuses from Bones of the Mountain. What’s more, the bite ignores one point of Durability or Armor per dot. Because it is a bite, this damage cannot be used with any ability that indicates another part of the dragon’s body, such as horns or claws. When used in Anthropos, the dragon must grapple an opponent to make use of the attack. Wyverns have been known to simply take bites out of the weapons of unsuspecting enemies, usually ending the fight quite quickly.

The dragon also gains the ability to digest any matter that they can chew, which becomes an expansive list as the dragon gains dots. As dragons are no longer bound by such things as nutrition and caloric intake, the wyvern can now subsist entirely on materials such as wood, plastics, and even gemstones and metals. They also have no need to worry about stomach size. Whatever they choose to feast on is truly devoured, always leaving room for more.
This legacy does nothing to improve the taste of anything that dragon puts in their mouth.

The Wyvern's Drakonos gains one point of size.

00

All know not to mess around with a hungry beast, and wyverns really prove this point. By spending a point of Willpower as an Instant action, the dragon feels the hunger rise. Skin stretches tight over bones and the starving beast awakens. In this hungry frenzy, they know nothing other than the emptiness inside them. They must spend each turn either devouring whatever is nearby or dashing towards their next meal. They gain +2 to all physical actions they take, and add their stamina to dice pools to resist supernatural emotion or mind control. This frenzy last one scene.
Additionally, they may gain a willpower once a day by engorging themselves. While many wyverns prefer meat, they may choose to feast on whatever they have available. This meal may be taken in Anthropos form, though they still must eat a large enough meal to feed their Drakonos form.

The Wyvern's Drakonos gains one point of size.

000

The wyvern is a bloody carnivore, and this legacy improves their ability to reduce their prey to bones. While in Drakonos, the dragon gains a number of benefits when making called shots with Brawl attacks. First, they reduce all called shot penalties by 1. Second, all called shots deal +1L damage. Third, a called shot that deals lethal is considered to deal Agg only for the purpose of determining the duration of tilts such as Arm Wrack, Leg Wrack, or Wing Wrack.
The dragon’s hunger knows no bounds, and this legacy allows them to carve their way through even the earth itself with enough time. The dragon gains a burrow speed, by which they can move through solid objects. The dragon may only burrow through substances that have their durability reduced to 0 or less by this birthright, and can dig a number of yards each turn equal to their strength+stamina.
The storyteller may deem that irresponsible use of this legacy can result in structural collapse of buildings that the dragon eats through or under. The dragon is free to try and do this on purpose, of course.

This hunger also transcends beyond just biting chunks out of whatever they wish. Their hunger is an empty, endless void. Whenever a target takes damage from the wyverns bite attack, they also lose a point of willpower as something essential is drawn out of them and destroyed.

The Wyvern's Drakonos gains one point of size.

0000

The Wyvern can unhinge their jaws, allowing them to swallow people and objects that seem far too large to be consumed in one gulp. Whenever the Wyvern makes a successful attack with their bite against a character or object whose Size is equal to or less than their Kauchaomai + Hunger of Nidhogg, they may reflexively spend one Willpower to consume the target. Unlike most things the wyvern eats, the target is not considered to have been subsumed by the void within, and instead is given the swallowed whole tilt. This power is especially disturbing when used in Anthropos form.
Additionally, whenever the wyvern drains a willpower from a target, they may also reflexivly heal 1 lethal or 2 bashing. If a sentient being dies while suffering from their swallowed whole tilt, they may heal 1 agg, 3 lethal, or 5 bashing.

The Wyvern's Drakonos gains one point of size.

00000

The Wyvern doesn't simply devour flesh and glass; it consumes hope, dines upon light, and greedily slurps up spirits. Whenever they make a successful attack with their bite, they forgo gaining a willpower to give their target the Soulless condition. If the target already has the Soulless condition, they instead immediately suffer a Breaking Point as if they had satisfied their Vice. If the target lacks an Integrity equivalent entirely (or is otherwise not subject to the Soulless condition), this attack instead deals Aggravated damage.
The wyvern may also reflexively attempt to consume incoming attacks rather than avoid them. By spending a willpower and readying their vast hunger, they subtract their Hunger of Nidhogg+Kauchaumai from attackers dice pools rather than their defense. If the attack roll results in zero successes, it is consumed. Swords are swallowed, bullets and their corresponding guns disappear, fire is drawn into their void, and the dragon may immediately roll an attack against anyone foolish enough to strike the Wyvern without a weapon.
This power can even swallow mystical energies whole. Any magical effect suffers the same penalty above instead of the usual penalty, if there is one. If they score no successes, they assailant loses a point of willpower as their essence is drawn into the hunger.

The Wyvern's Drakonos gains one point of size.

[Amechra]

If everyone else is doing it, I will too:


The Coils Eternal (•)
Cost: None (or 1 Willpower)
Action: None (or Reflexive)
Effects: A Hydra is made of sterner stuff than most Dragons (which is saying something); as such, they divide all healing times by [1 + Immortality of Lerna], and add [Immortality of Lerna] to their Size.
In addition, whenever they recover Willpower, they may use an Epoulos as a Reflexive action, the rush restoring their bodies to health; initially, only the following Epoulos are available to them:

Heal two levels of Bashing damage.
Heal one level of Lethal damage.
Downgrade two levels of Lethal damage to Bashing.

They may spend one Willpower as a Reflexive action to enter a regenerative state for a number of Turns equal to their dots in Immortality of Lerna. As long as they are in this state, they may use a single Epoulos as a Reflexive action each turn, in addition to any they would be entitled to due to regaining Willpower.

The Masses of Serpentflesh (••)
Cost: None
Action: None (or Reflexive)
Effects: As their bodies develop, Hydras begin to grow redundancies and toughen organs; they gain [Immortality of Lerna]/0 Armor against attacks made against specific targets. This Armor stacks with that granted by Hide of Iron.
In addition, a Hydra may Reflexively change how healthy their bodies appear, superficially covering mortal wounds or opening harmless cuts on their skin; they gain 8-again on any roll intended to deceive someone - or which involves bluffing - with regards to their physical health.

Skin-Shedding Rejuvenation (•••)
Cost: None
Action: None
Effects: Just like a snake, a Hydra can rejuvenate themselves by shedding their skin. They add [Immortality of Lerna] to their Health; in addition, they gain access to the following Epoulos:

Remove a Personal Tilt.

Doing so sheds the skin around the wounded or destroyed extremity, revealing pale and healthy skin beneath. As a side benefit, Hydras who possess Skin-Shedding Rejuvenation are immune to all non-Supernatural diseases in both of their forms, laughing off colds and Ebola with equal ease.

From a Single Scale (••••)
Cost: None
Action: None
Effects: Hydras can dismiss even the most egregious of wounds with a thought; they recover from Tilts inflicted by aggravated damage when they heal the associated wound. In addition, they gain the following Epoulos:

Spend one Willpower to remove one level of Aggravated damage.

As a peripheral benefit, they downgrade all Lethal damage they have suffered to Bashing when they revert to Anthropos; scratches on a Dragon remain scratches.

Ouroboros Swallows Itself (•••••)
Cost: None
Action: None
Effects: The Hydra devours themselves forever and ever, easily restoring themselves to their idealized form. Whenever they activate their regenerative state, it lasts for one Scene instead of five turns.
More impressively, they cannot be killed unless their head is destroyed, regardless of whether or not their HLs are filled with Aggravated damage or not. A Hydra's whose body is entirely destroyed, leaving them with only their head, takes the Destroyed Body Tilt. Their skulls develop an incredible resilience as well; they downgrade all damage dealt to their heads by one step.
As almost an afterthought, the Hydra no longer ages in either of their forms; their bodies revert to the prime of their youth, and they are immune to aging through mundane or supernatural means.


Rather than stick "Slayers ignore this, you guys" on every Birthright/Legacy, I suggest giving all Slayers the following (in addition to the "all the damage they deal is Aggravated"):


Bulwark of Fate: Slayers are effectively built to do what their name suggests; therefore, any damage they deal cannot be downgraded by a Dragon's supernatural abilities. Additionally, if a Slayer fills a Dragon's rightmost HL with Aggravated damage, they die and stay dead even if they have a Supernatural ability that would prevent or reverse their death. Finally, they themselves downgrade any Aggravated damage dealt to them by a Dragon's Supernatural abilities to Lethal.


Also, I think I have to rejigger Destroyed Body; I forgot you can grow extra heads, so I think we need a Head Wrack Tilt. :smalltongue:

[Almarck]

Well, since Ame did it, I guessed I might as well do something too.




Awe Inspiring Light (•)
Cost: None
Action: None (or Reflexive)
Effects: An Amphitere is blessed with power that almost practically confirms her divinity. The deific confidence and godlike right of the amphitere coalesces around their form like a halo, an ephemeral glow of sacred countenance that reinforces their image of being simply better. All amphipteres shine with a divine light, signifying their might and authority.

They may at any point choose to radiate this light from their bodies much like a searchlight, illuminating the nearby area for up to her Dots in Radiance times twenty in distance away, removing penalties due to darkness. This distance doubles if the dragon is in the air, as the Amphitere connects to the heavens above. This light does not cause blindness or impairment and may reveal the dragon to others who otherwise would not have noticed her.

Additionally, for every dot in Radiance of Quetzalcoatl the dragon possesses, she gains 1 die to all social rolls that would benefit from enhanced appearance and adds her dots in Radiance of Quetzalcoatl to her size in Drakonos.





Divine Living (••)
Cost: None or 1 Willpower
Action[/I]: None
Effects: A divine being does not need to concern themselves with the trivial trials and tribulations of mundane life. An Amphitere has events seem to work out in their favor wherever they go. Their bus always shows up on time, their tools never break while they are using them, job opportunities show up at their doorstep, and all manner of other small things go well for them on a daily basis.
In addition, so long as the dragon spends at least one hour exposed too bright sunlight, his body is sustained and renewed by the warmth of the sun’s light, effectively removing his need to eat or drink for the day as well as ending any hunger phangs and food deficiencies.





Godly Form (••••)
Cost: None
Action: None
Effects: The key to divinity is to project the image of invulnerability. With this legacy, an Amphitere never has to reveal weakness. Any wounds taken by the dragon do not show, creating the appearance that the dragon is unharmed. Any rolls that would take advantage of this appearance, usually Stamina+Intimidation, gain the 8-again property, in addition to the core benefit of Radiance of Quetzalcoatl. This applies to both Drakonos and Anthropos forms.
The wounds are still there, however, and the dragon suffers all damage, damage-inflicted Tilts, and wound penalties as normal. If the dragon encounters a situation where this legacy would be a hinderance, such as when they require medical attention, they may reflexively deactivate it for the scene at no cost.

Additionally, Divine Blessing’s secondary effect also applies to sleeping and breathing, potentially removing exhaustion penalties and conferring immunity to suffocation.


Unfettered Glory (•••••)
Cost: 2 Willpower
Action: Reflexive
Duration: 1 Scene.
Effects: By tapping in most primal and divine aspects of her very being the Amperite may unleash a bright light as intense as the midday Sun itself. Everywhere within up 200 feet of her is bathed in light.

Unlike her normal light though, the light given off by unfettered glory is harmful to anyone looking directly at her and does not have her express permission to do so. Each turn, hostile foes that look at the Amphitere must succeed on a Stamina roll or gain the blind, awed, or terrified conditions, at the dragon’s choice, for the rest of the scene.

Additionally, when using Unfettered Glory, any supernatural creatures that are weak to sunlight treat the Amphitere as if she were the Sun itself. In short, vampires may burn to ash in her presence.





I had to cut out Divine Magic because I find that a Willpower cost reduction while strong probably takes up way too many “points” in my opinion. It also felt out of place and the fluff for Sorcery was changing as well as some mechanics. I decided it was simply best to gloss it over for now.

Fused Charmed Life and Ambrosia together. Both had the same niche so I figured it’d be good for simplicity make them part of the same thing. I did change Charmed Life though, mostly to give it more mechanical consistency instead of making it a GM Fait thing for when it applied.

I would have put more stuff from the actual legacy, but as it was right now, Radiance was kind of lacking in stuff near the end with what material there was mostly unexplained in some effect.


Blessing of the Gods did not explain or convey its purpose well..

I also felt the teleport thing probably should be a Sorcery. Same with Champion of the Gods. Those things did not feel like they really spoke of “Radiance” or “Divinity” that well.

Servant’s boon was also not impressive enough for my tastes and I feel that maybe it should be a merit instead. Probably a modified version of the Retainer or Staff merits..

As a result, I decided to focus more on the “light” aspect and made up some Legacies. Sadly, not sure what to put in 3 dots.

[One Tin Soldier]

For what its worth, I think that Xallace and I were intending to work on the Birthrights a bit more "in-house" than the others, since we've been talking about what kinds of things should apply across all of the Birthrights. I also think that you guys have severely underestimated how strong we want the Birthrights to be.

For reference, here's the revised version of Poison of Fafnir, which is the same as the version that is now in the doc.
●
The drake is a creature of venom, capable of poisoning both body and mind. A drake’s anger does not merely destroy its target, it undermines its very foundations. The first dot of Poison of Fafnir grants the drake the ability to produce poison within their own body, as well as an instinctive knack for exploiting physical and mental weaknesses.
The dragon’s Drakonos can produce poison from glands in their mouth, much like a venomous snake. This poison is persistent and insidious, harming anyone who comes into contact with it. The poison has a Toxicity equal to the drake’s Stamina + Kauchaomai. A poisoned character takes Lethal damage equal to the Toxicity of the poison at each time interval. At each time interval after the first, the effective Toxicity decreases by 1. The time interval depends on transmission method:
If the poison is spread by blood contact, then the time interval is 1 turn. (Or, to simplify, the target gains the Poisoned Tilt for a number of turns equal to Toxicity.) Examples of this method include biting or injection.
If the poison is spread by ingestion, then the time interval is 1 minute. Examples of this method include kissing, planting it in food or drink, or spitting in the eyes.
If the poison is spread by skin contact, then the time interval is 1 hour. Examples of this method include spitting on the skin, licking, or planting it in skin cream.
By spending a point of Willpower, the drake can grow poisonous fangs in their Anthropos form for the rest of the scene.
The roll to apply the poison, if necessary, depends on the specific method of transmission, and ranges from Strength+Brawl (to bite) to Dexterity+Athletics (to spit) to Dexterity+Larceny (to slip it into a drink). Reapplying the poison does not increase the damage dealt per interval, but simply resets the time limit.
The recipient of the poison has an opportunity to resist the poison’s effects. Each time they would take damage, they make a reflexive Stamina + Resolve – Toxicity roll, where each success negates one point of damage. If the target manages to eliminate their exposure to the poison, they stop taking damage. Vigorous cleaning can eliminate skin contact and flushing stomach contents can removed ingested poisons, and even blood contact can be removed if all of the affected blood is somehow removed (though this unlikely, unless they are poisoned in the middle of an emergency room). It is also possible to make an antivenom, which requires a sample of venom from the dragon in question and an extended Intelligence+Science roll. (The roll takes place once every minute, requires appropriate equipment, and has a target number of successes equal to Toxicity.) The dragon is always immune to their own poison.
In addition to being able to produce poison, the dragon becomes more resistant to other poisons. When rolling Stamina + Resolve to resist a poison’s damage (or a sedative’s effect, or similar), the drake adds twice their Birthright dot rating to the roll. The dragon gains this benefit in both Drakonos and Anthropos forms. To the chagrin of many drakes, this resistance applies to desirable “poisons” as well, such as alcohol, recreational drugs, or medicine, requiring them to consume quantities ranging from “great” to “heroic” in order to achieve the same effect.
The dragon can also read a target’s weaknesses by gazing into their eyes, gaining an instinctive understanding of how to erode their will and exploit their desires.
Action: Instant and Resisted
Cost: 1 Willpower Point
Roll: Empathy + Kauchaomai - Composure

Dramatic Failure: The drake drastically misreads their target, learning a false weakness about their target that will likely backfire when pressed. For the next scene, any rolls made to exploit the false weakness suffer a -4 penalty.
Failure: The drake is unable to get a read on the target.
Success: The drake learns one of the following facts about their target: one of the Aspirations, their Vice, Ambition, or equivalent Anchor trait, or a negative Condition that they suffer from, including the Obsessed Condition. For the next scene, they gain a bonus to all rolls exploiting that weakness equal to activation successes.
Exceptional Success: In addition to the benefits of more successes, the drake learns two of the above facts about their target.

The drake’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

●●
The drake gains greater control over poison, both the venom they produce themselves and poisons, drugs, and toxins that already exist. They also become capable of identifying poison on sight, and enabling people to act on their mental poisons.
The drake can change the properties of an existing poison. By adding some of their own venom to it, the dragon can increase (or decrease) its Toxicity by up to their dots in Poison of Fafnir. They may also increase the potency or effectiveness of alcohol, drugs, or medicine without making it significantly more lethal. So a beer might become as strong as vodka, or over-the-counter pain medication could become as potent as morphine. Many drakes use this property as a way to counteract their innate resistance to toxins. Only mundane poisons can be enhanced this way; they cannot use it to make another drake’s poison more deadly, and they certainly cannot use it on their own poison.
However, the drake can modify their venom to convert it to a less deadly, but potentially more useful, paralytic agent. Instead of dealing damage to the recipient, the poison causes their limbs to seize up, causing their movements to weaken and slow, or stop moving altogether. If the poison’s Toxicity is less than the target’s Stamina, the target gains the Slowed Tilt. If the Toxicity higher than the target’s Stamina, they gain the Immobilized Tilt. After being paralyzed, the target has a chance to throw off the effects with a Stamina + Resolve - Toxicity roll, at intervals depending on the method of transmission.
Skin contact: 1 roll per turn
Ingestion: 1 roll per minute
Blood contact: 1 roll per hour
Alternately, the drake may modify their venom so that it affects the target’s mind instead of their body by reflexively spending a point of Willpower. The target is not physically poisoned and takes no damage. Instead, the target’s conscience and inhibitions are suppressed, leaving them free to pursue their goals and desires without pesky annoyances like other people’s feelings.
The target loses all sense of inhibition for as long as this effect lasts. They act out without care for the social or legal consequences of their actions, and generally do as they would if nobody could stop them. Note that this doesn’t play on a target’s deepest desires, necessarily - alcohol removes inhibitions and it doesn’t turn everyone into murderers, you already have to be pretty nasty for that to happen. This can even have positive effects by getting a shy person to stand up to a bully or letting a therapy patient talk about how they really feel without any psychological blockages. The exact effects are dependent upon the person.
The poison remains in the target’s system for a time dependent on the method of transmission:
Skin contact: one minute
Ingestion: one scene
Blood contact: one day
(It is worth noting that, despite the increased duration, biting or injecting someone who is about to have all of their inhibitions removed is generally not considered the wisest course of action.)
Lastly, the dragon can identify any form of poison with only a cursory examination. This information is usually transmitted through sight and smell. At base, this ability only informs the dragon of the general presence of poison, not its form or effects. By spending a point of Willpower as an Instant action, the drake can learn the exact effects of all poisons they can sense.

The drake’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

●●●
Poison begins to infuse into the drake’s form. Their Drakonos doesn’t just produce poison - it breathes and bleeds it. Their innate poison can be refined to the point of only attacking specific targets, and they can now poison the mind to a greater degree.
The drake’s poison can now be transmitted through inhalation, as they gain the ability to breathe out clouds of poisonous gas. Transmission via inhalation is treated identically to transmission via [blood contact or ingestion?]. The drake can project their poison gas out to (Stamina x 3) yards as an Instant action, engulfing as many targets as the Storyteller allows. Targets can avoid being affected by not breathing in the gas, whether by holding their breath or wearing a gas mask or other methods. This only works if they avoid breathing in the gas in the first place; holding one’s breath after inhaling the poison is of very limited effectiveness. The poisonous gas will hang in the air for [however long, several minutes? Dependant on Kau?] before dispersing into the air. Strong winds or efficient ventilation systems may disperse it more quickly, at the Storyteller’s discretion. Any variation of the drake’s poison can be transmitted through the gas. The gas is visible as a green-tinged haze.
The drake may also tailor their poison to include or exclude specific targets. The poison has no thoughts or will of its own, of course, so criteria of who can be affected must rely on biological factors. So a drake could make a poison that only affects cows, or normal humans, or males, but they could not create a poison that excludes people wearing hats, or Jim the IT guy, or Zmaj. There is theoretically no limit to the number of criteria that can be placed on a single poison, though in practice most drakes find that combining more than 2 or 3 criteria is too much of a headache to bother with. When creating their poisons, the drake has the option to use different poison effects on different groups. For example, a drake can breathe out a poison cloud that damages dragons, removes the inhibitions of werewolves, and leaves normal humans unharmed.
In addition, the drake’s very blood becomes like acid. Whenever they are dealt Lethal damage from a Brawl or Weaponry attack, the attacker suffers Lethal damage equal to the dragon’s Kauchaomai. This damage may be reduced by Armor, though its value is halved unless it protects the whole body.
Finally, the dragon can now poison minds more effectively, planting new obsessions for their victims to follow. When using their mind-altering poison, they may also give the target either a new Aspiration, or the Obsessed condition. The dragon chooses the object of this new goal or obsession.

The drake’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

●●●●
The drake is poison. They don’t just become capable of producing poison anymore - they have to hold themselves back to not create it with every breath they take. The barriers between mental and physical poisons begin to break down, and the drake can take advantage of their own obsessions to recuperate as much physically as they do mentally. They also become a master of mundane poisons, capable of reproducing any toxin that they themselves have suffered from.
The dragon may now breathe poison more easily than before. Their poisonous gas now emerges with every exhalation, poisoning anyone who dares to approach them or follow in their wake. This cloud extends a few feet away from the dragon, and will linger in any place the dragon has been for several minutes. The drake may reflexively activate or deactivate this ability, although by default it is active whenever the dragon is in Drakonos, particularly when the dragon is asleep or unconscious. If the dragon is not consciously controlling what kind of poison is produced this way, it only deals damage. In addition, the dragon no longer has to spend Willpower to produce poison in their Anthropos form.
When the drake enters their Tyranos form, their poisons become more potent. In addition to the benefits of their temporarily higher Kauchaomai rating, the Toxicity of their poisons increases by 1.
The drake also gains a new type of poison that they can produce: a powerful hallucinogenic that alters how its targets perceive reality. A target affected by this poison takes on the Insane, Insensate, or Blinded and Deafened Tilts. (Blinded and Deafened use the more severe version of the Tilts, and Insensate is replaced by Drugged when it ends due to taking damage.) The target has a chance to throw off the effects, as described for the paralytic venom.
Another option that the drake gains for producing poison is to replicate any mundane poison that they have previously been exposed to. They may spit cyanide, breathe out tear gas, or even fill a glass with liquidized ibuprofen. An application of any of these poisons is equivalent to one dose of it in its normal form, and must be applied in the same way as it would be in its normal form. The Toxicity rating of a reproduced poison is the same as it was when the drake was exposed to it, and cannot be raised or lowered by the second dot effect of Poison of Fafnir.
Finally, the drake becomes more in tune with their own obsessions, to the point where refreshing their will by indulging in them refreshes their body as well. Whenever the drake regains Willpower by basking in their Hoard, they also heal an amount of Lethal or Bashing damage equal to the Willpower they regained. (If the dragon gains fewer Willpower points than they usually would due to their Willpower cap, they still heal the full amount.)

The drake’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.

●●●●●
The drake’s very presence becomes poisonous. Fields become fallow, birds fall dead out of the sky, and even structures rot away. The barrier between mental and physical poisons disappears completely, allowing the drake’s venom to propagate itself through the spread of ideas. And they no longer have to choose between the effects of their poison, but instead can make their venom as dangerous and versatile as they wish.
By spending 4 points of Willpower, the drake may cause the landscape around them to become poisoned and rotted. An area around the drake with a radius of (Kauchaomai) miles becomes a toxic wasteland. Over the course of a couple weeks, plants and animals wither and die, as do young children, the elderly, and the ill. Healthy adults become sick. Buildings become unstable as their foundations rot away, and roadways crumble into masses of potholes. Even the land itself becomes inhospitable in the final stages, potentially causing sinkholes to open, mountainsides to collapse in landslides, or even localized earthquakes. By the time the poison has run its course, the area has become a blasted wasteland, where only the hardiest and most adaptable life remains.
The drake can now transmit their poison memetically. They communicate an idea to the target, which causes them to take the effects of the poison.
Action: Instant and Contested
Cost: 1 Willpower
Roll: Manipulation + Kauchaomai vs. Resolve + Kauchaomai
Dramatic Failure: The memetic poison rebounds on the dragon, causing them to suffer its effects. The dragon’s normal immunity to their own poison does not apply in this case. The dragon cannot spread this effect memetically.
Failure: The poison fails to take hold.
Success: The target falls under the effects of the poison. The time interval for the poison resistance roll is once per hour for all such varieties, or one day for poisons with flat durations. While under the effects of the poison, any time the target communicates the idea to another person, they become affected as well, and so on. This does not spread infinitely, however. For each step removed from the initial target, the poison becomes more diluted, losing 1 point of Toxicity.
Exceptional Success: The memetic poison is especially virulent. The first “step” away from the initial target does not lose any Toxicity, after which it dilutes normally.
Lastly, the drake can now combine the various types of poisons that they create. They may apply as many effects as they wish to any application of their poison.

The drake’s Drakonos gains an additional point of size.
EDIT: Granted, there might be some editing that needs to be done later. Scaling the poison Toxicity off of damage, for instance, could end up being too abusable, and some other factors may need to be simplified, like how the duration is limited. And I'm sure that the memetic poison option needs some clarification.


One of the important differences we discussed is for all Birthrights to grant a healing option at 4 dots, as well as a significant passive change to their Drakonos and Tyranos (which means Hydrae need to have something really special for their 4 dot healing). And 5 dot effects are very powerful.

[Amechra]

I dunno what you're talking about when you say Immortality of Lerna is currently weak (besides not permanently boosting Drakonos and Tyranos); the only way I personally would pump it up would be adding the following to the fourth level:

"Additionally, whenever the Hydra recovers Willpower, they may use a number of Epoulos equal to the amount of Willpower they gained, rather than just one."

As it stands, the fifth level would already let you regrow your body in between 15 seconds and a minute, depending on whether you have wings or extra heads. If you add my tweak to the fourth dot, they go from "fast healers" to "lolheal".

I'll throw on some tweaks, and we'll see if it's good enough.

EDIT: Tyranos is also not in the document at the moment. What were you going with on Tyranos, by the way?

[Almarck]

So, I'm trying to read through Fafnir and well, I'm thinking that for ease, maybe setting it up so that the options are on bullet points or some bold text to list out seperate parts tied to a certain aspect would make it easier to read.

Then again, I guess it's still a draft. So far, everything looks good, just readability needs to be improved.

What I recommend is that each seperate part have a "Tag" for instance Poison Bite, Poison Spit, Toxic Gas, ect. This is to show that when higher dot abilities are involved that a particular subpart of that ability influences a previous subpart. You don't need to go overboard, but it'd certainly make Fafnir easier to read and quick search what benefits what.


This reminds me though, since you're now standardizing having draconic aspects via Partial Metamorphisis, would it be prudent then to replace any other references to manifesting draconic traits with "Like all Legacies, this Legacy may be used via Partial Metamorphisis"?

Also, here's something that I just noticed. Doesn't the Attribute limit exceed 5 naturally when using Legacies? As far as I am aware, buffs (which Legacies by game mechanics are) allow you to break the limit by default, so is it really neccesary to state that Drakonos is "uncapped" as far as Maximums are concerned or is it a function of Legacies that their attributte boosts do not take you above the usual maximums without Drakonos?



I'll admit, I was just throwing random words together when I came up with Tyranos (obviously a reference to tyrant) since I was hoping someone else would have a better name...

[One Tin Soldier]

I dunno what you're talking about when you say Immortality of Lerna is currently weak (besides not permanently boosting Drakonos and Tyranos); the only way I personally would pump it up would be adding the following to the fourth level:

"Additionally, whenever the Hydra recovers Willpower, they may use a number of Epoulos equal to the amount of Willpower they gained, rather than just one."

As it stands, the fifth level would already let you regrow your body in between 15 seconds and a minute, depending on whether you have wings or extra heads. If you add my tweak to the fourth dot, they go from "fast healers" to "lolheal".

I'll throw on some tweaks, and we'll see if it's good enough.

EDIT: Tyranos is also not in the document at the moment. What were you going with on Tyranos, by the way?

Really, being able to natively heal agg is probably enough for special healing at the 4th dot. And like I was saying, it will probably be easiest to balance all of these if it's mostly me and Xallace writing these up.


So, I'm trying to read through Fafnir and well, I'm thinking that for ease, maybe setting it up so that the options are on bullet points or some bold text to list out seperate parts tied to a certain aspect would make it easier to read.

Then again, I guess it's still a draft. So far, everything looks good, just readability needs to be improved.

What I recommend is that each seperate part have a "Tag" for instance Poison Bite, Poison Spit, Toxic Gas, ect. This is to show that when higher dot abilities are involved that a particular subpart of that ability influences a previous subpart. You don't need to go overboard, but it'd certainly make Fafnir easier to read and quick search what benefits what.

GitP doesn't read indents very well. Look at it on the main doc, I think it's significantly easier to read there. Though I do want to format the Birthright stuff in table-like stuff, with each individual benefit in a separate cell. Preferably with the quick-and dirty description at the start of the cell.


This reminds me though, since you're now standardizing having draconic aspects via Partial Metamorphisis, would it be prudent then to replace any other references to manifesting draconic traits with "Like all Legacies, this Legacy may be used via Partial Metamorphisis"?

But Birthrights aren't Legacies. They have quite a few effects that apply to both forms, and its important to differentiate. Similarly, there are a number of auxiliaries that require the Legacy to be fully active to apply their effect, since it is possible to only activate the Attribute boost.


Also, here's something that I just noticed. Doesn't the Attribute limit exceed 5 naturally when using Legacies? As far as I am aware, buffs (which Legacies by game mechanics are) allow you to break the limit by default, so is it really neccesary to state that Drakonos is "uncapped" as far as Maximums are concerned or is it a function of Legacies that their attributte boosts do not take you above the usual maximums without Drakonos?



I'll admit, I was just throwing random words together when I came up with Tyranos (obviously a reference to tyrant) since I was hoping someone else would have a better name...

I think it is necessary to say. It's only a single sentence, after all, and it eliminates potential confusion.

[Amechra]

True enough; Tyranos is still not in the GDoc.

[One Tin Soldier]

True enough; Tyranos is still not in the GDoc.

That is something that we should remedy.

Also, I was pretty drunk last night, so I probably wasn't the clearest. So sorry for any confusion that may have resulted.

[Almarck]

So uh can you then explain how the attribute dots past 5 thing work for Anthropos? Because legacies typically boost it higher than normal and buffs do not normally follow the human caps. Still kind of confused on that.

[One Tin Soldier]

So uh can you then explain how the attribute dots past 5 thing work for Anthropos? Because legacies typically boost it higher than normal and buffs do not normally follow the human caps. Still kind of confused on that.

That is a good point. We should rephrase it to say that Legacy boosts are not restrained by Attribute caps.

[Almarck]

That is a good point. We should rephrase it to say that Legacy boosts are not restrained by Attribute caps.

So that then means you have to remove the wording that Drakonos is uncapped in terms of attributes since there's no way,you'd break the cap anyways.
Unless it's a mechanic that you can spend exp to go over 5 in. Base attributes but ant numbers past a certain point do not apply in Anthropos unless your kau is high enough.

[Xallace]

@Sgt. Cookie: I like what you've got so far, although I agree with Almarck about the motherly bent. They are the "Mothers of Monsters," after all, and nothing says you can't be a maternal mad scientist...

Additionally, I don't know if it's fully laid out in the doc (I thought it was) but Houses do not have a strong enough collective identity for a full legacy. Obviously, any mutation-type powers are going to be pretty strong but don't worry about filling out 11 abilities. If Houses have legacy-type-dealies, they should have only a handful of auxs at most. Otherwise, once again, like it so far!

@Amechra & OneTinSoldier: I think Amechra's take on Immortality is pretty in line with what we want. It's definitely strong, and the internal nature of the birthright is going to mean it has to leave out really outrageous effects like moving rivers and such. I can see adding in a few extra side-powers and but it's got a solid core going on.

@OneTinSoldier: I think I was drunk that night too, we shoulda compared notes. :smalltongue:

@Amechra: Adding that Slayer trait is certainly more elegant than our current solution.

@Almarck: An interesting take on Radiance. I'm typing it up myself and I may port some of the things you suggested into the final product.

[One Tin Soldier]

I've finished the writeup of Hunger of Nidhogg, which is largely similar to what Eris got down, with some effects shifted to lower dots and a couple new effects. Putting it up in the doc now.

EDIT: We are going to keep changing a couple things around, particularly making the 5th dot more impactful.

[Amechra]

You still haven't included Tyranos in the doc; as it stands, I'm assuming you're using my write-up and reading accordingly, but that's just because I'm egocentric.

[Almarck]

Well, I guess it's safe to safe to say that everything else is being shelved for a while to develop Birthrights. So, I guess I'll just Monument thoughts for a while.

I'm hoping that that Radiance is more light themed though.

Speaking of, I had an idea of how to fill inthat 3rd dot if you need it. Revealing Light. Basically, an invisibility purge and general "no hiding" rule. Add in some stuff that focuses on revealing "truth" from "lies" and well, then it'll be interesting. World of Darkness loves it secrecy, remove it and you get a devasting weapon.


Anyways, I had a thought come in since you changed the name to Birthights. Perhaps now is a good time to alter the names of General Legacies... into just Legacies since we've got like 3 types of Legacy left (General, Dynastic, Auxillary) and I'm thinking maybe cleaning up terms to seperate things would help.

I'm thinking that without Birthrights under their old name, it might be a good idea just to call General Legacies... Legacies. Dynastic Legacies can keep their name since it's a subtype of Legacy and follow the same general rules with a prerequisite for learning. Auxillary Legacy might also be best shorted do "Aspects" since they are not often independant in of themselves and are reliant on other Legacies. Aspects defines them neater.

Essentially, just some terminology clean up.

[One Tin Soldier]

You still haven't included Tyranos in the doc; as it stands, I'm assuming you're using my write-up and reading accordingly, but that's just because I'm egocentric.

It's not going to be terribly different from what you posted. Which was a modification of the spell I made, anyway. :smalltongue:


Well, I guess it's safe to safe to say that everything else is being shelved for a while to develop Birthrights. So, I guess I'll just Monument thoughts for a while.

I'm hoping that that Radiance is more light themed though.

Speaking of, I had an idea of how to fill inthat 3rd dot if you need it. Revealing Light. Basically, an invisibility purge and general "no hiding" rule. Add in some stuff that focuses on revealing "truth" from "lies" and well, then it'll be interesting. World of Darkness loves it secrecy, remove it and you get a devasting weapon.

You've just described the core effect of Jewel of Wisdom.


Anyways, I had a thought come in since you changed the name to Birthights. Perhaps now is a good time to alter the names of General Legacies... into just Legacies since we've got like 3 types of Legacy left (General, Dynastic, Auxillary) and I'm thinking maybe cleaning up terms to seperate things would help.

I'm thinking that without Birthrights under their old name, it might be a good idea just to call General Legacies... Legacies. Dynastic Legacies can keep their name since it's a subtype of Legacy and follow the same general rules with a prerequisite for learning. Auxillary Legacy might also be best shorted do "Aspects" since they are not often independant in of themselves and are reliant on other Legacies. Aspects defines them neater.

Essentially, just some terminology clean up.

Personally, I feel like that would just be change for change's sake.

[Amechra]

It's not going to be terribly different from what you posted. Which was a modification of the spell I made, anyway. :smalltongue:
Touche (actually, I didn't read the spell until after I wrote that up; I was going off what Almarck had written up.)

You know, I might have some ideas in the GARUDA direction...

[Almarck]

Touche (actually, I didn't read the spell until after I wrote that up; I was going off what Almarck had written up.)

You know, I might have some ideas in the GARUDA direction...

Consider my interest piqued. I like birds.


Well I am glad Tyranos is going to be a universal aspect of being a drsgons instead of a ritual. Downsides seem to be as bad as ever. It's certainly intimidating and generally usable now. Hm question should using Tyranos be somethjng that the dragon can be forced into? Like say death rage or frenzy triggers.

[One Tin Soldier]

Consider my interest piqued. I like birds.

I like birds too. I look forward to see what you come up with.


Hm question should using Tyranos be somethjng that the dragon can be forced into? Like say death rage or frenzy triggers.

Absolutely not. Dragon is not a game about loss of control. They can't even become dragons in the first place without willing it to be so; having to worry about losing control of their basic powers would be completely out of theme.

[One Tin Soldier]

Now that the college semester has ended, our playtest will be starting before long. Before we can get the game started, however, we need to at least complete the powers that starting characters would have access to. (Ideally, we would have every power finished, but that might not be possible.) To facilitate this, I'm going to comb through the Legacies and list every power that is currently incomplete. Again, this is mostly for Xallace and I, though if you guys have ideas feel free to share them. (Keep in mind while doing so that the goal here is to complete what's there, not change things that are already done.)


Birthrights
Radiance of Quetzalcoatl: Incomplete
Poison of Fafnir: Complete
Immortality of Lerna: Incomplete
Hunger of Nidhogg: Workable, high-level benefits need improvement
Waters of Hualong: Complete

Dynastic Legacies
Jewel of Wisdom:

Core needs mechanics
1 aux missing (1 below 0000)
9 auxes need mechanics (5 below 0000)
6 auxes need names (3 below 0000)
Blood of the Covenant

Core needs mechanics
10 auxes need mechanics/writeup (6 below 0000)
10 auxes need names (6 below 0000)
Sovereignty of Storms

8 auxes need mechanics (4 below 0000)
Auspices of the Queen

Core needs minor mechanics clarification
7 auxes need mechanics/writeup (4 below 0000)
5 auxes need names (3 below 0000)
Opus of Zirnitra

4 auxes need mechanics (3 below 0000)
3 auxes need names (2 below 0000)
[Dynastic Legacy order also does not match order in ToC]

General Legacies
Bones of the Mountains

Complete
Breath of the Inferno

Complete
Eyes of Eternity

1 aux missing (none below 0000)
3 auxes need mechanics (none below 0000)
Grace of the Host

Complete
Heads of Wise Counsel

Complete
Hide of Iron

Complete
Presence of the Emperor

1 aux needs more thorough writeup (none below 0000)
Tongue of the Serpent

1 aux needs more thorough writeup (none below 0000)
Some auxes imply that lower-level auxes are needed to function; auxes should all be able to be used independently, and lower-level auxes should not make higher-level ones obsolete
Wings of the Heavens

1 aux could use a more thorough writeup (1 below 0000)

Sorcery (listed separately from General Legacies because fluff change accounts for a number of issues, and because of sheer volume of spells)
0

2 spells need mechanics and names
1 spell may need to be replaced for fluff, otherwise needs mechanics and name
1 spell needs minor fluff adjustment
00

3 spells need mechanics
2 spells need names
2 spells need minor fluff adjustments
000

1 spell missing
2 spells need mechanics
1 spell needs name
1 spell may need to be replaced for fluff, otherwise needs mechanics and name
0000

4 spells need mechanics
1 spell may need to be replaced due to overlap with Radiance of Queztalcoatl, otherwise needs mechanics and name
1 spell needs name

00000

1 spell missing
3 spells need mechanics, may need major adjustment or replacement due to fluff
1 spell needs to be moved to general Tyranos ability, needs to be replaced
3 spells need names


Overview:
2 Birthrights need to be completed
3 Core Legacies require mechanics or mechanics clarification
Auxes Below 0000:

2 missing
23 need mechanics/writeup
14 need names
Auxes above 000:

1 missing
21 need mechanics/writeup
10 need names
Spells below 0000:

1 missing
2 may need to be replaced, otherwise need mechanics and names
7 need mechanics
5 need names
Spells above 000:

2 missing (1 of which is due to definite replacement)
4 may need to be replaced, otherwise need mechanics and/or names
4 need mechanics
1 needs name

[Almarck]

Well, on thinking on it, the main problem with making Radiance Light themed is that it means that Jewel of Wisdom loses a bunch of its thematicness since a good chunk of it is light themed. To counter balance this, you probably would want to up the clairvoyance factor up a bit, but then again, isn't Eyes of Eternity the Sensory Legacy?

Hm, since a bunch of Dynastic Legacies are missing their cores, a part of me wondes if maybe if would be simpler to change the Dynastic Legacies into Dynastic Sorceries? this way, we avoid the issue of creating scaling universal cores for each Dynasty. Also, I think it might put the importance of Sorceries much higher than previously.

[One Tin Soldier]

Well, on thinking on it, the main problem with making Radiance Light themed is that it means that Jewel of Wisdom loses a bunch of its thematicness since a good chunk of it is light themed. To counter balance this, you probably would want to up the clairvoyance factor up a bit, but then again, isn't Eyes of Eternity the Sensory Legacy?

Hm, since a bunch of Dynastic Legacies are missing their cores, a part of me wondes if maybe if would be simpler to change the Dynastic Legacies into Dynastic Sorceries? this way, we avoid the issue of creating scaling universal cores for each Dynasty. Also, I think it might put the importance of Sorceries much higher than previously.

Radiance of Quetzalcoatl is about divinity, Jewel of Wisdom is about information, and Eyes of Eternity is about senses.

And once again, we are at the point where making change for change's sake just isn't worth it. Dynastic Legacies are fine where they are, design-wise. And there aren't a "bunch" of Dynastic Legacies missing cores; there are a couple that are missing the mechanical writeups. Big difference. (EDIT: one of which I wrote in just yesterday)

[Xallace]

The point got brought up a while ago that Dragon is missing a lot of the illusions and deceptions that Jewel is supposed to counteract. I think you were the one to mention it, actually, Soldier. Is there something we might want to put there instead.

Dynastic legacies are really more in fluff with Birthrights than Sorcery, I think, although I can see why the overtly magical nature of them would make you want to label them as such. If we were to make any big changes it would probably be in the direction of Birthrights - but we're not looking to make any right now, unless for whatever reason a complete system overhaul is deemed necessary. But we'll save that for Dragon 2e. :smallwink:

We just really procrastinated on these for whatever reason. Which is weird, since I believe Opus of Zirnitra was one of the first legacies we came up with.

I've been considering linking this thread to the original doc for funsies. It doesn't have much on it but you can see how far we've come from "Sorceror: the Dragonborn." :smalltongue:

[One Tin Soldier]

The point got brought up a while ago that Dragon is missing a lot of the illusions and deceptions that Jewel is supposed to counteract. I think you were the one to mention it, actually, Soldier. Is there something we might want to put there instead.

Dynastic legacies are really more in fluff with Birthrights than Sorcery, I think, although I can see why the overtly magical nature of them would make you want to label them as such. If we were to make any big changes it would probably be in the direction of Birthrights - but we're not looking to make any right now, unless for whatever reason a complete system overhaul is deemed necessary. But we'll save that for Dragon 2e. :smallwink:

We just really procrastinated on these for whatever reason. Which is weird, since I believe Opus of Zirnitra was one of the first legacies we came up with.

I've been considering linking this thread to the original doc for funsies. It doesn't have much on it but you can see how far we've come from "Sorceror: the Dragonborn." :smalltongue:

Yeah, though my intention at the time was to include a little more in the way of illusions in Sorcery. Burning away decption can still be useful, though, and the illusion-removing effects can be an added bonus.

If we wanted to tweak the core of Jewel, we could focus a little more on the info-gathering part.

[Xallace]

The "sense information flow" thing we originally had in Eyes would fit Jewel better, probably.

[Xallace]

So Tyranos is finally up, along with a good number of new sorceries.

Soldier can make whatever changes to Tyranos he feels like, I just wrote up mostly what Amechra had with a few modifications.

Edit: We've also breached 150 pages!

[Almarck]

Congrats.

You'll probably get to 200 when adventure paths and important NPCs get written up.



By the way, one thing that bothers me about Tyranos. Is it intentional or unintented that you can switch the bonus dots in Legacies gained from Tyranos? As in, from one manifestation to the next, you can opt to put as many dots into Wings and Inferno, but the next uses Bones and Hide. Would you consider the "Freely allocatable" nature of current Tyranos a boon or an unintended by product?

[Xallace]

It's more a product of indecisiveness than anything.

One the one hand, it probably makes more sense fluff-wise to have it boost particular legacies as it gravitates towards your "true self."

On the other hand, what happens if you boost Bones from 2 to 8 and then raise Bones later? Are those dots wasted or can you then switch them into another legacy? And wouldn't it make the form that much stronger to be able to adapt it to the situation?

On the third hand (??), what sort of situations are you getting yourself into that you've entered Tyranos more than once?

So I'll leave that to the thread to discuss how that should work out, and whether any other aspects should be added to or removed from the form.

[One Tin Soldier]

My thoughts on the matter are similar to Xallace's, with one additional thought. As it is, you could dump all of your legacy dots into a single legacy that you haven't bought any dots in, which feels... odd.

Perhaps we could limit the number of dots you can put into Legacies that you have no dots in, or maybe just the number of dots you can put into any one Legacy.

[Xallace]

Maybe four at most? That way you can split them between two core powers if you like and you don't have to be maxed out to enjoy the epic-lefscy benefits.

[Almarck]

My proposal is simple:

At character creation, define your Tyranos. Spend 8 dots in any manner among legacies, including those you don't know, but no Legacy can receive more than 3 Tyranos dots.

Once these dots are allocated, they cannot be changed.

Reasons:
In my opinion, every Tyranos should modify atleast three different traits, to avoid being two dimensional... and because we do have to deal with game balance in some respects. I mean, the linear scaling of Legacies while it makes things easy to design on the physical stats, I kinda hesitate every now and again.

After that recomendation, my oonly concern is well, how to encourage Tyranos to be used in Social and Mental manners?

Particularly in the case of Eyes since that's one legacy that doesn't... have stuff after 5 aside from more Wits.

As it is right now, I am not sure of if any player without delibrately gimping himself would spend Tyranos Legacy dots outside of Physical things outside of Inferno and Wings.



Hm, I really wonder if directly amplifying legacies with Tyranos is the best way to handle it. Mind if I make a counter proposal? If for nothing else, but as a thought experiment.

[One Tin Soldier]

My proposal is simple:

At character creation, define your Tyranos. Spend 8 dots in any manner among legacies, including those you don't know, but no Legacy can receive more than 3 Tyranos dots.

Once these dots are allocated, they cannot be changed.

Reasons:
In my opinion, every Tyranos should modify atleast three different traits, to avoid being two dimensional... and because we do have to deal with game balance in some respects. I mean, the linear scaling of Legacies while it makes things easy to design on the physical stats, I kinda hesitate every now and again.

After that recomendation, my oonly concern is well, how to encourage Tyranos to be used in Social and Mental manners?

Particularly in the case of Eyes since that's one legacy that doesn't... have stuff after 5 aside from more Wits.

As it is right now, I am not sure of if any player without delibrately gimping himself would spend Tyranos Legacy dots outside of Physical things outside of Inferno and Wings.



Hm, I really wonder if directly amplifying legacies with Tyranos is the best way to handle it. Mind if I make a counter proposal? If for nothing else, but as a thought experiment.

I understand where you're coming from, but like Xallace mentioned, a dragon entering Tyranos more than once in a game seems pretty unlikely. And one of its biggest uses is to get you out of a sticky situation. I feel like having to define it at character creation will wind up making situations where going into Tyranos just wouldn't help as much as it could if it wasn't set in stone. (Or at all, if what they really needed was a General Legacy they didn't have.) Besides, having to define it at character creation would be one more step in an already complicated process, especially for something they might not use.

Imagine you're a first time player to Dragon, who's possibly never played an RPG before. How would you feel about going through a step that might take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour, depending on how quickly you grasp the concept, only to be told directly afterwards that you're probably never going to use that information? Heck, I'm an experienced player, and I still would hate that because at that point I just don't know how the character is going to evolve.

As for changing literally the entire effect of the ability... you'd have to come up with something really convincing.

EDIT: Also, remember that even the Mental and Social powers mostly have clear combat applications in their cores. The only ones that don't are Grace of the Host and that doesn't is Heads of Wise Counsel. Even Grace of the Host grants you better resistance to emotion-effecting powers.

[Almarck]

Right. Well. I guess there's no harm then to leaving it as is until testing is involved.

[One Tin Soldier]

Just wanted to bring in an update. We've continued completing the 1-3 Auxiliaries, and everything else we need to start the playtest. Really, there are only a couple more we need.

[Xallace]

And we're done! Every core legacy, and auxiliary legacy between one and three dots is complete! We will continue to work on things such as the higher dots and Monuments, but for now the game is ready for starting characters to be built and playtesting to begin!

And if anyone is interested in sharing their starting characters, I'd love to see them. In the meantime, I'd be happy to get back to any conversations we put on hold, such as Monuments or the Garuda.

[Almarck]

And we're done! Every core legacy, and auxiliary legacy between one and three dots is complete! We will continue to work on things such as the higher dots and Monuments, but for now the game is ready for starting characters to be built and playtesting to begin!

And if anyone is interested in sharing their starting characters, I'd love to see them. In the meantime, I'd be happy to get back to any conversations we put on hold, such as Monuments or the Garuda.

Well, I gave my reasonings for how Monuments should be, each having stats no matter how powerful they are, simply to measure and quantify their effectiveness, especially when other Monuments act in "combat". The spirit Attributes are merely "placeholders" since they basically represent the universal incorpeal entities in WoD.

Also, it's come to my attention that the Hives Integrity based mechanics are not compatible with Demon or Werewolf since their handling of the scale is much different from other Splats. Perhaps state that they cannot be assimilated?
Also, sorry for lack of contact, things seemed to have died down a while ago.

[Amechra]

Carrie Futhwaithe [The Heiress of Babylon]
[ ]|[ ][ ] Ambition: The High Queen
[ ]|[ ][ ] Heart: The Comrade
Heritage: Hydra
Dynasty: Illegitimate
Aspirations:
[ ] Cheer our team to victory!
[ ] Make peace with my roommate
[ ] Get entangled in Dragon politics despite myself
Touchstones:
[ ] Hicktown University's Football Team
[ ] My best friend Percy Jones

Curly braces are only available in Drakonos.
HLs
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]{ }{ }{ }{ }{ }{ }
Willpower
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Attributes


Str •• {+•••}
Dex •••
Sta ••• {+••}


Int ••
Wit ••
Res ••


Pre •••
Man •
Com •••




Skills


Mental
Physical
Social


Academics •
Athletics ••• [Gymnastics]
Empathy ••


Investigation •
Brawl •• [Kickboxing]
Expression ••


Politics ••
Drive •
Intimidate • [Surprisingly fierce]




Survival •
Persuasion ••






Socialize •••






Streetwise •




Merits


Social
Physical
Supernatural


Resources ••
Small Build ••
Dextrous Claws •


Striking Looks [Girl Next Door] •


Titanic ••


Sympathetic ••








Legacies and Birthrights
Bones of the Mountain [Strength] •• - Natural Weapons are +2L
Mighty Blow (••): [Deal damage > Target's Size] → Spend 1 Willpower to inflict Leg Wrack or Knocked Prone.

Hide of Iron [Stamina] •• - 2/2 Armor
Indefatigable (•): [Always] Immune to penalties from fatigue or injury.
Stalwart as Stone (••): [Always] Doubles Stamina when using it as a Resistance trait, doesn't fall unconscious when HLs filled with Bashing.

Immortality of Lerna ■□□□□
Insert benefits of first dot of IoL here.


Advantages
Size: 4 {7}
Speed: 10 {13}
Defense: 5
Initiative: 5
Kauchaomai: ■□□□□□□□□□
Serenity: ■■■■■■■□□□



If you want, I can make up a backstory for you (It will be TERRIBLE). And now you see how I write my character notes.

[Almarck]

Well, I'm currently trying to come up with a character concept. Debating on culture, but the only thing I got nailed out was that the guy is an Hier in both the dragon and human worlds.

[Xallace]

Well, I gave my reasonings for how Monuments should be, each having stats no matter how powerful they are, simply to measure and quantify their effectiveness, especially when other Monuments act in "combat". The spirit Attributes are merely "placeholders" since they basically represent the universal incorpeal entities in WoD.

While using the ephemeral being rules would certainly be a simple way to do it, and I for one certainly appreciate the enthusiasm you've put into the Monuments idea, I believe Soldier and I have officially decided against using those rules for Monuments except possibly for cases where they Monument's psyche is further "awakened." They just don't suit the way we're seeing Monuments.

Now, what will suit our idea remains to be seen, and he and I will have to discuss exactly what that idea is more now that we can take a break from legacies for a little bit. Actually, I think Mummy's tomb and cult mechanics might be a good place to start looking...



Also, it's come to my attention that the Hives Integrity based mechanics are not compatible with Demon or Werewolf since their handling of the scale is much different from other Splats. Perhaps state that they cannot be assimilated?

Good point! It's definitely worth writing up a section explaining why Hives generally don't go for supernatural entities other than dragons.

@Amechra: I would definitely love reading even a "terrible" backstory for a D:tI character. So have at it!

[Almarck]

The reason to use the Spirit Attributes in the first place is if we want to create a simple “health” system to go along with offense and defense mechanics.

Really, I don’t mind if you don’t use Ephemeral spirit traits, since it was basically just a placeholder anyways, but I’m actually kind of going to say that having “certain” monuments “awaken further” to get those traits probably is going to be too much of a headache.

Perhaps, before we should decide on the rules, maybe it’d be a good idea on what kinds of Monument interactions should be possible and then extrapolate the system from that?

My ideas on what Monuments should have
-Physically damaging a Monument (obvious, but may need to be said)
-Monuments provide passive and active magical abilities in addition to mundane functions.
-Monuments can damage each other in a form of “war of ideas” using their abilities or perhaps as a built in rule
-Defined Controller rules as well as creation rules.
-Monuments have powers dependant on controller “status” such as “Heir”, “Hive”, and “Slayer” having different powers.
-Figuring out how to define “scale”/Tier. Perhaps a point range breakdown like how Spirit Ranks wok?
-Have a full "Range" of statistics from which Morale and power effectiveness are extrapolated from.

I take it the Architect and Steward stuff is going to be “canon” since you displayed a few weeks back that you liked the idea of that. I’m thinking in addition to that, we can add “Usurper” as someone who is not the rightful owner of a Monument and stole control of it somehow.




And outside of monuments, I have this: Well, first dragon character. I ...borrowed Amercha’s template. Thank you for providing it for me.

It was actually fairly hard to create a non-combat character for some reason and well, some parts are probably contradictory.

Cameron Newerth [Adventurous Merchant Prince]
[ ]|[ ][ ] Ambition: The Seeker
[ ]|[ ][ ] Heart: The Taskmaster
Heritage: Wyrm
Dynasty: Zalciai
Aspirations:
[ ] Go on a long voyage like the merchants of old did.
[ ] Pay off rent.
[ ] Enter the “big leagues” and form an “empire” of commerce.
Touchstones:
[ ] “Eagle’s Point” Peak
[ ] Co-Partners Freddy Fillion and Michael Trip

Curly braces are only available in Drakonos.
HLs
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]{ }{ }{ }
Willpower
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Attributes


Str ••
Dex ••{+••}
Sta ••


Int •••
Wit ••
Res ••


Pre ••
Man •••{+••}
Com •••






Skills


Mental
Physical
Social


Academics •• (Economics)
Athletics •
Subterfuge ••


Crafts ••
Survival •
Expression •


Politics ••
Drive •• (Sailboats)
Streetwise ••


Science •

Persuasion ••• (Sale’s Pitch)






Socialize •••






Merits

[TR]
Social
Physical
Mental
Supernatural


Resources •••


Encyclopedic Knowledge ••
Dexterous Claws •


Status (Own Private Company)•••



Multilingual (Chinese, French) •








Legacies and Birthrights
Wings of Heavens [Dexterity] •• - Flight Speed is 15
[FONT=courier new]Hummingbird Wings (••): The dragon gains the ability to hover and use their wings more effectively in small spaces.
Serpent’s Grace (••) : Apply Defense to Firearms and use higher of Wits or Dexterity when calculating Defense.

Tongue of the Serpent [Manipulation] •• Lul listeners into suggestibility
Snake Charmer (•): Animals can understand you and be affected by language dependant Legacies.


Waters of Hualong ■□□□□
Insert benefits of first dot of WoF here.



Advantages
Size: 5 {8}
Speed: 9 {13}
Defense: 3 {5}
Initiative: 5 {7}
Kauchaomai: ■□□□□□□□□□
Serenity: ■■■■■■■□□□






Cameron is a Chinese born American immigrant several generations removed. His family came to the Americas when it was young hoping to find a new life among the then New World. While his family had been near completely assimilated, to the point hardly anyone in the family knows Chinese and the last name is in English, Cameron was quite different.

Cameron feels a sort of affinity to the ancient traveling merchants of old, to the point that he often laments being born several centuries too late to join them. He longed for the days of the old Silk Road and loved tales of the travelers who searched the then unknown world. There was something noble to him about those who earned their wealth and fame the hard way. In a sense, he wished to relive those days.

Cameron’s Inheritance came to him when he finally realized those days are long dead and that nothing he could do to change that; the world was no longer the big place that it was, CEOs were the new kings of the world of commerce. Instead, from out of that murky abyss he found himself in, he found out that he didn’t have to rebuild the old world.

So what if the world was no longer what it once was and he was born long after that age ended. That didn’t mean he couldn’t live his life the way he wanted. So maybe he won’t be able to do everything as the travelers of old did, but that didn’t mean he couldn’t at least try.

He took his transformation into a dragon as a sign that he was on the right track. With the sky and sea open to him, there were avenues, worlds, beyond the likes of which man had yet to discover.

[One Tin Soldier]

The reason to use the Spirit Attributes in the first place is if we want to create a simple “health” system to go along with offense and defense mechanics.

Really, I don’t mind if you don’t use Ephemeral spirit traits, since it was basically just a placeholder anyways, but I’m actually kind of going to say that having “certain” monuments “awaken further” to get those traits probably is going to be too much of a headache.

Perhaps, before we should decide on the rules, maybe it’d be a good idea on what kinds of Monument interactions should be possible and then extrapolate the system from that?

My ideas on what Monuments should have
-Physically damaging a Monument (obvious, but may need to be said)
-Monuments provide passive and active magical abilities in addition to mundane functions.
-Monuments can damage each other in a form of “war of ideas” using their abilities or perhaps as a built in rule
-Defined Controller rules as well as creation rules.
-Monuments have powers dependant on controller “status” such as “Heir”, “Hive”, and “Slayer” having different powers.
-Figuring out how to define “scale”/Tier. Perhaps a point range breakdown like how Spirit Ranks wok?
-Have a full "Range" of statistics from which Morale and power effectiveness are extrapolated from.

I take it the Architect and Steward stuff is going to be “canon” since you displayed a few weeks back that you liked the idea of that. I’m thinking in addition to that, we can add “Usurper” as someone who is not the rightful owner of a Monument and stole control of it somehow.




And outside of monuments, I have this: Well, first dragon character. I ...borrowed Amercha’s template. Thank you for providing it for me.

It was actually fairly hard to create a non-combat character for some reason and well, some parts are probably contradictory.

Cameron Newerth [Adventurous Merchant Prince]
[ ]|[ ][ ] Ambition: The Seeker
[ ]|[ ][ ] Heart: The Taskmaster
Heritage: Wyrm
Dynasty: Zalciai
Aspirations:
[ ] Go on a long voyage like the merchants of old did.
[ ] Pay off rent.
[ ] Enter the “big leagues” and form an “empire” of commerce.
Touchstones:
[ ] “Eagle’s Point” Peak
[ ] Co-Partners Freddy Fillion and Michael Trip

Curly braces are only available in Drakonos.
HLs
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]{ }{ }{ }
Willpower
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Attributes


Str ••
Dex ••{+••}
Sta ••


Int •••
Wit ••
Res ••


Pre ••
Man •••{+••}
Com •••






Skills


Mental
Physical
Social


Academics •• (Economics)
Athletics •
Subterfuge ••


Crafts ••
Survival •
Expression •


Politics ••
Drive •• (Sailboats)
Streetwise ••


Science •

Persuasion ••• (Sale’s Pitch)






Socialize •••






Merits

[TR]
Social
Physical
Mental
Supernatural


Resources •••


Encyclopedic Knowledge ••
Dexterous Claws •


Status (Own Private Company)•••



Multilingual (Chinese, French) •








Legacies and Birthrights
Wings of Heavens [Dexterity] •• - Flight Speed is 15
[FONT=courier new]Hummingbird Wings (••): The dragon gains the ability to hover and use their wings more effectively in small spaces.
Serpent’s Grace (••) : Apply Defense to Firearms and use higher of Wits or Dexterity when calculating Defense.

Tongue of the Serpent [Manipulation] •• Lul listeners into suggestibility
Snake Charmer (•): Animals can understand you and be affected by language dependant Legacies.


Waters of Hualong ■□□□□
Insert benefits of first dot of WoF here.



Advantages
Size: 5 {8}
Speed: 9 {13}
Defense: 3 {5}
Initiative: 5 {7}
Kauchaomai: ■□□□□□□□□□
Serenity: ■■■■■■■□□□






Cameron is a Chinese born American immigrant several generations removed. His family came to the Americas when it was young hoping to find a new life among the then New World. While his family had been near completely assimilated, to the point hardly anyone in the family knows Chinese and the last name is in English, Cameron was quite different.

Cameron feels a sort of affinity to the ancient traveling merchants of old, to the point that he often laments being born several centuries too late to join them. He longed for the days of the old Silk Road and loved tales of the travelers who searched the then unknown world. There was something noble to him about those who earned their wealth and fame the hard way. In a sense, he wished to relive those days.

Cameron’s Inheritance came to him when he finally realized those days are long dead and that nothing he could do to change that; the world was no longer the big place that it was, CEOs were the new kings of the world of commerce. Instead, from out of that murky abyss he found himself in, he found out that he didn’t have to rebuild the old world.

So what if the world was no longer what it once was and he was born long after that age ended. That didn’t mean he couldn’t live his life the way he wanted. So maybe he won’t be able to do everything as the travelers of old did, but that didn’t mean he couldn’t at least try.

He took his transformation into a dragon as a sign that he was on the right track. With the sky and sea open to him, there were avenues, worlds, beyond the likes of which man had yet to discover.



One thing about the backstory – who was your character's mentor, who gave him his Inheritance? Dragons can't learn to transform on their own, they have to be taught. (Spurned being the ones who never got a mentor in time)

[Almarck]

Okay fixing that.


Cameron received his Inheritance from a like minded Zalciai, a rather old one who claims to have essentially seen the rise of the industrial age since the begining. At the end of his long life he plans to finally retire, but needs someone to carry on after him. Even if that story were not true, it was good enough for Cameron to believe and to this day, he has been groomed to become hi Heir.



Anyways, what you guys think about Monuments? and how do you plan to address the "unconventional" morallity traits for when assimilated Hives? I personally would just flatout say Demons and Werewolves probably are too inhuman for it. Prometheans too.

[Xallace]

My view on the Hive assimilation is that most supernatural creatures are too alien for Hives. Vampires are too psychologically inert, werewolves are too primal, changelings too weird, prometheans not even on the radar, demons seem tasty until that first bite (and then yuck, toss 'em), sin-eaters have too much to handle at once, and taking on a mummy and their cult is more trouble than it's worth.

Mages are close enough to human that they might be possible targets, and dragons are the prime supernatural meal because they have that extra-strong personality that just makes them oh-so delicious.

[Amechra]

I personally think that they should work like The Statue of Weeping Alice from Mysterious Places.

Basically, it rewards certain behaviors (making sacrifices to the Statue) by handing out dice bonuses to an entire town. Human sacrifice gives CRAZY bonuses, for example (sacrifice a child, and the whole town ignores Wound Penalties and gets a +3 to all rolls for day.)

So I'd say a Monument should act as a way of refuelling Willpower, and should give out rewards to a large area if you follow the "dictates" of the Monument. Like, for example...

Blessings of Prosperity
As long as someone pays the Monument's costs, everyone within the area profits; businesses are more profitable, people feel healthier, and in general there is a vast improvement in the local quality of life.
Insult: If the monument is Insulted, all residents take a -1 penalty to all their rolls for the Monument's Period.
Minor: If the Minor cost is paid, all residents gain a +1 bonus on all rolls for the Monument's Period.
Median: If the Median cost is paid, all residents gain a +2 bonus on all rolls for the Monument's Period.
Major: If the Major cost is paid, all residents gain a +3 bonus to all rolls and ignore Wound Penalties for the Monument's Period.

Sacrifice
The Monument demands tribute in blood and flesh; the cost must be paid through the sacrifice of a living being.
Minor: The sacrifice of any large mammal will suffice as a Minor Sacrifice.
Median: The sacrifice must be a human being.
Major: The sacrifice must either be a Dragon or a human child.

A Monument is Insulted if you deface it or disrespect it somehow (like heaping garbage around it, or physically chipping or scarring it.) A Monument displays a Sign while its effects are active, which is just a way of displaying its Supernatural nature. And its Period is just the length of time its effects and Sign last each time the cost is paid.



The Statue of Weeping Alice
Period: One Day
Sign: The Statue begins to cry actual human tears, and doesn't stop until the Period is over.
Blessing: Blessings of Prosperity
Cost: Sacrifice



Being the Steward would bring extra benefits, while being the Architect would allow you to define the general nature of the Monument. I can see Dragons mostly going for a "Quest" cost, where the Cost is paid based off how well you complete a certain set of Aspirations.

[Xallace]

I... actually really like that idea.

[Xallace]

To expand on the idea, I'd also like to see Personal Insults; insults founded in a Monument's cost that are unique, beyond the general insults such as defacing the object.

For example:

Charity (Cost)
The Monument demands that its Steward makes a charitable donation to a particular cause. The donation need not be to a particular charitable organization or person, nor need it be necessarily monetary. The cause is decided at the time of the Monument's creation, although later Stewards may spend a Willpower dot to change it. Resources may be pooled for the purpose of this cost.
Minor: The steward must make a charitable contribution of money or other resources equivalent to a Resource 1 purchase.
Median: The Steward must make a charitable contribution of money or other resources equivalent to a Resource 2-3 purchase.
Major: The Steward must make a charitable contribution to the tune of a Resource 4-5 purchase.

Personal Insult: Stealing from a charitable organization, including the Monument, within the Monument's influence causes insult to the Monument. The Monument is equally insulted if the Steward donates to a cause other than the Monument's, if it has been more than one week since the last donation in the Monument's name.


I also imagine the Steward benefits are one-time use or a few at most, per cost paid. Steward benefits are assumed to be if a dragon controls the Monument. Garuda and Hives gain different benefits, as befitting their individual themes.

Blessing of Wealth
Those within the influence of the Monument benefit from great prosperity. Shops bring in business, financial deals have greater outcomes, and even gamblers find themselves on a winning streak.
Insult: Profits are lost and business drops. All rolls related to finance, business, or gambling take a -3 penalty.
Minor: All rolls related to finance, business or gambling gain a +2 bonus.
Median: All rolls related to finance, business or gambling gain a +3 bonus.
Major: All rolls related to finance, business or gambling gain a +4 bonus. Once during the period, anyone affected may spend a Willpower point to turn a failure on a relevant roll into a single success.

Steward: The Monument's Steward is filled with a brimming, hopeful energy. Once during the period, if the Steward gains at least one success on a relevant roll, the may spend a point of Willpower to turn the roll into an exceptional success.



There may also be individually buyable benefits, based on the Monument's tier. Among those may include weaponization of the Monument against other Monuments, "awakening" of the Monument's personality, and passive benefits that are active whether or not the cost is paid.

If anything is bought in dots, it might be the Monument's Period, Range of Influence, and Functionality (that is, how useful it is in a mundane context. A statue would have low functionality, a dam might have medium or high). These may or may not be capped based on Tier.

I'm also going to throw in my old ideas of Monuments acting as an extra Touchstone for the Steward/Architect, and the ability to store memories in a Monument (though that might get relegated to a buyable "add-on" benefit).

[Almarck]

Yeah, that all sounds good. Simple and ellegant. Cameron is probably the kind to like those especially his role of commerce.


Personal Insult is very thematic and appropriate to what I had going when I came to the whole Steward vs Archetects thing.



Also, I had an idea on whether or not Monuments have derrived statistics are ever needed. What if Monument statistics for say "health", "resistance" and so forth are based on the owner's (Steward or Architect) own attribute scores, under the logic that "ideas" are only as strong as those who champion them.

This allows us to easily say that Monument v Monument conflict (should it exist) is rather an extention of the wills of their owners. The goal of said conflict is therefore for one Monument to deny the other's bonues to the owner.

Of course that might not be cmpatible with "buying" traits like range and duration, so maybe we should put "offense" and "defense" there too?

[One Tin Soldier]

I'd say that any kind of statistics would still just be if the monument is given a mind, and even then it would only apply to the mind itself, not the monument as a whole. The benefits of the monument overlapping is "conflict" enough, given that the stewards would have to keep feeding them to sustain their power.

[Xallace]

As far as awakening the Monument Mind goes, I imagine we can then make them an ephemeral being with Power equal to Reach, Finesse equal to Function, and Resistance equal to Period. Maybe such awakened monuments can then perform psychic combat. Corpus might be equal to Tier + Resistance, and Corpus 0 would shut down the monument for some amount of time.

Awakening the Monument Mind would provide other benefits beyond psychic combat, but I think that's where we'd work it in if anywhere.

[Almarck]

As far as awakening the Monument Mind goes, I imagine we can then make them an ephemeral being with Power equal to Reach, Finesse equal to Function, and Resistance equal to Period. Maybe such awakened monuments can then perform psychic combat. Corpus might be equal to Tier + Resistance, and Corpus 0 would shut down the monument for some amount of time.

Awakening the Monument Mind would provide other benefits beyond psychic combat, but I think that's where we'd work it in if anywhere.

Eh, I guess I am fine with that, so long as ssome sort of resistance values are given if say an intelligent Monument attacks a non-Intelligent one. Alternatedly, I guess we could say 0 resistance and "1 HP" as being equivalant if it ever came down to that.

Other than that, I'm all for the current model.

Also, have you considered special rules for "Usurpers" or unrightful owners of Monuments? I'm thinking that since they are the unlawful rulers, they "violate" them and change the nature of the Monument just by possessing, probably forcing Sacrifices to be all sorts of negative or contrary acts to show "dominion" over the Monument?

[One Tin Soldier]

Eh, I guess I am fine with that, so long as ssome sort of resistance values are given if say an intelligent Monument attacks a non-Intelligent one. Alternatedly, I guess we could say 0 resistance and "1 HP" as being equivalant if it ever came down to that.

Other than that, I'm all for the current model.

Also, have you considered special rules for "Usurpers" or unrightful owners of Monuments? I'm thinking that since they are the unlawful rulers, they "violate" them and change the nature of the Monument just by possessing, probably forcing Sacrifices to be all sorts of negative or contrary acts to show "dominion" over the Monument?

That's the thing, though. Even an intelligence in a monument doesn't exactly do things on its own. It's more of an interface. Think less HAL, more Siri.

And yes, we are thinking that usurpers can change the effects of a monument. Though I think it should be kept in generally the same system, for simplicity's sake. (Plus it's not like costs can't already be awful. The first example was human sacrifice, after all.)

[Almarck]

That's the thing, though. Even an intelligence in a monument doesn't exactly do things on its own. It's more of an interface. Think less HAL, more Siri.

And yes, we are thinking that usurpers can change the effects of a monument. Though I think it should be kept in generally the same system, for simplicity's sake. (Plus it's not like costs can't already be awful. The first example was human sacrifice, after all.)

I'm thinking that simply changing the Cost of the Monument would work. And maybe, just maybe establish that Usurpers cannot use the lowest costs of the Monument, them being unrightful owners and having to instead "force" blessings out instead of coaxing it out using the right authority.

[Amechra]

Userpers: I honestly think that Usurpers shouldn't have some "special" system in place for them. It should really just be a term for Stewards who "inherited" a Monument through some means other than normal inheritance.

So if you kill someone else and steal one of their Monuments, you're a Usurper; similarly, someone who finds an abandoned Monument and "freshens it up" would also be a Usurper (but probably not to their faces). If they then pass it down to one of their Heirs, their Heirs aren't considered Usurpers.

More of a social thing, rather than a metaphysical thing (I also kinda disagree with changing a Monument in ways that aren't just building on it or remaking it entirely. I think that having to either improve it or replace it entirely fits better with the themes.)

[Xallace]

I think if there were to be a metaphysical component to Usurpation, it would apply more to non-dragons who take over a Monument. We already have the idea that Garuda and Hives who take over a Monument change its vital function, and for what it's worth, we have been referring to the fall of the Empire by non-dragon hands as the "Usurpation" anyway. Dragons are able to build onto or physically alter existing Monuments and change their abilities that way, filling their own role as a usurper, but it's not much more than a probably-more-violent version of the usual process. A dragon who usurps a Monument might be a colossal jerk, but it doesn't strike dragons as inherently, spiritually wrong the way a Hive or Garuda holding a Monument would.

On that front, we never did decide what it was Hives do to Monuments. I think the assumption was that they change the Monument's influence to be in line with their collective motivation, but we never really got that down in writing. It makes sense for the villain and lends to the theory that the original Hive may have been an awakened Monument that got out of control. (Not that that's our official story, of course.)

I'm not sure if it came up in the thread, but Soldier and I at least discussed that when Garuda control a Monument causes changes to the natural environment within the Monument's influence. We'll probably post a couple examples, but it'd be mostly left up to the storyteller exactly how that functions. I'm not sure how often Garuda usurp Monuments, or if they care about them for reasons other than as bait for dragons, but I guess that's part of the mystery.

[Almarck]

After some thinking I think it'd make sense for all Hive owned Monuments to be functionally identical for the Hive that controls it. All of its subjects are identical without specifically designing castes, why would Monuments be different.


To this end I think that Hives probably should list what kind of Monuments they create or cause other Monuments to corrupt into when under their influence. The only functional differences then become how powerful different Monuments become via tiers or other mechanisns.

So maybe Hives habe preset blessings and sacrifices specific to them and any monuments under their controllm.. assuming we don't create a new system from whole cloth.


By the way how's the Garuda stuff coming along? And Amercha didn't you have something about them a while back?

[Sgt. Cookie]

What if Hives use Monuments as a... booster of sorts. A Hive can have a pretty wide influence on its own, but if they control a Monument, that influence can be expanded many times over, to gain more and more Drones.

Perhaps not instantly, of course, the way the Hive proper does it, but slowly over weeks and months a vague drone in the minds around it, nudging and influencing them until they're fully broken in.

Or something like that, I guess.


In other news, my progress on House Echinda is going swimmingly. I've got some stuff written down and a working version of their... ability? I think we need a name for that. At some point.

[One Tin Soldier]

What if Hives use Monuments as a... booster of sorts. A Hive can have a pretty wide influence on its own, but if they control a Monument, that influence can be expanded many times over, to gain more and more Drones.

Perhaps not instantly, of course, the way the Hive proper does it, but slowly over weeks and months a vague drone in the minds around it, nudging and influencing them until they're fully broken in.

Or something like that, I guess.


In other news, my progress on House Echinda is going swimmingly. I've got some stuff written down and a working version of their... ability? I think we need a name for that. At some point.

That's a good point. What do we call the pseudo-legacies granted by the Houses?

[Almarck]

Hey there Cookie, have you thought of making a character concept?

Also, as for terms, Boons, Triffles, Commandments, Edicts come to mind. What's the thematic lynch pin of the hidden houses nyways>

[Sgt. Cookie]

I've had an idea, yeah. A Hydra who looks and acts like a British 1960s hippy who's main goal is to get high and enjoy life. He also has excellent knowledge of a variety of academic and occult subjects.

[Amechra]

By the way how's the Garuda stuff coming along? And Amercha didn't you have something about them a while back?

I got bogged down with a buncha paperwork and other projects. Also, I just got Darkest Dungeon to work on my computer, so...

The only concrete thing I've got in my head so far is flipping the Garuda, so they're an extension of their storm. That'd make a nice trifecta:

Heirs are the Great Man view of history.
Hives are a Marxist view of history (with the hives in place of "class" struggle)
Garuda are the view that history is a force of its own, which cannot be truly altered by any mere man.

[Leliel]

I got bogged down with a buncha paperwork and other projects. Also, I just got Darkest Dungeon to work on my computer, so...

The only concrete thing I've got in my head so far is flipping the Garuda, so they're an extension of their storm. That'd make a nice trifecta:

Heirs are the Great Man view of history.
Hives are a Marxist view of history (with the hives in place of "class" struggle)
Garuda are the view that history is a force of its own, which cannot be truly altered by any mere man.

Good idea.

While I'm too tired to remember if they're pure antagonists or not, I suggest a Garuda has powers based around the concepts of Fatalism and Pessimism, as it's easy to go from mere absurdist view of history (ie, way too complex for humans to really understand) into nihilistic (ie, you don't understand it, ergo it must be out to get you).

[One Tin Soldier]

Good idea.

While I'm too tired to remember if they're pure antagonists or not, I suggest a Garuda has powers based around the concepts of Fatalism and Pessimism, as it's easy to go from mere absurdist view of history (ie, way too complex for humans to really understand) into nihilistic (ie, you don't understand it, ergo it must be out to get you).

The Garuda are absolutely pure antagonists. In fact, dragons pretty much know nothing about them because they only ever show up in civilized places to hunt dragons.

I'd also recommend not getting too wrapped up in the symbolism part of their powers. It would be a neat thing, sure, but above all their powers need to make them threatening, mechanically speaking.

Also, I don't know if you guys saw this or not, but we decided on a power stat: Odium. Because as far as dragons can tell, their abilities are powered by hatred.

[Leliel]

Hm...

I think I've got it. They're actually pissed that someone is able to direct humans in general better than they are, Hive or Dragon. In fact. I'd say they hate Slayers too; Slayers are, whatever else, leaders themselves, which means that even the most antisocial has a knack for impassioning people and charisma. They may work with Slayers, but they're always planning to stab the Enkindled in the back at some point or just prevent them from looking too deeply into who their benefactors are.

[Xallace]

"As far as dragons can tell" being the key there. Dragons know next to nothing about Garuda save some superificial experience, but when it seems like the entire point of a creature's existence is to kill you it is easy to reconcile them as "beings of pure hatred."

[Leliel]

"As far as dragons can tell" being the key there. Dragons know next to nothing about Garuda save some superificial experience, but when it seems like the entire point of a creature's existence is to kill you it is easy to reconcile them as "beings of pure hatred."

Okay, good.

Given the theory behind their origins, I'm seeing them as "guardians of time" or at least fate, who view supernatural direction of the course of events as an abomination, particularly how they're not particularly good at steering events back on to their "proper course" (though no Garuda would give a coherent answer as to what is the proper course-it's entirely possible they don't know or even that it was never their actual purpose).

All supernatural templates who manipulate history (rather than profit off it, like Seers) get the Garuda quietly working against them to undo as many changes as they can (which may be why the God-Machine isn't the Clanking Ruler Of Everything by now), but Dragons are born leaders; they manipulate the course of things simply by living. They really don't like that, and often have to intervene directly to stop them.

[Almarck]

We still going for Spirit attributes rules for Garuda? As a measure for "simplicity" as well mechanically representing them to be "otherworldly"?

Also, that's an interesting concept there Leliel (small fan of your work), I would have never thought of handling Garuda as the arbiters of fate angle. A part of me wonders if it was they who are truly responsible for ending the Empire.


We shelving the Spurned for now to focus on the Garuda? I think there was no consensus on how they were going to handle them before the lengthy modifictions we done on Birthrights.

[Xallace]

I can get behind Garuda being extensionss of their weather and self-appointed guardians of some natural course. And yes, we are using the spirit rules for their Ornitharkos forms.

[One Tin Soldier]

We shelving the Spurned for now to focus on the Garuda? I think there was no consensus on how they were going to handle them before the lengthy modifictions we done on Birthrights.

What do you mean? Birthright changes don't make any difference to how Slayers work. They get Kauchaomai based on the dragon's Kau, and Arete based on the dragon's General Legacies.

[Leliel]

We still going for Spirit attributes rules for Garuda? As a measure for "simplicity" as well mechanically representing them to be "otherworldly"?

Also, that's an interesting concept there Leliel (small fan of your work), I would have never thought of handling Garuda as the arbiters of fate angle. A part of me wonders if it was they who are truly responsible for ending the Empire.


We shelving the Spurned for now to focus on the Garuda? I think there was no consensus on how they were going to handle them before the lengthy modifictions we done on Birthrights.

...Small fan?

Of what, I might ask?

[Amechra]

Is it sad that your Google Doc is the first thing that pops up when I start typing Dragon into my URL field? Maybe.

So...

Odium



Potency

Attribute Dots

Attribute Maximums

Ferocity

Powers

Blending



1

5/4/3

5/5

1

3

-1



2

6/4/3

5/6

2

3

-2



3

7/4/3

5/7

2

4

-2



4

8/4/3

5/8

3

4

-3



5

8/5/3

5/9

3

5

-3



6

9/5/3

6/10

3

6

-4



7

9/6/3

7/11

4

6

-4



8

10/6/3

8/12

4

7

-5



9

10/6/4

9/13

4

8

-5



10

11/7/4

10/14

4

9

Chance




Attribute Dots
A Garuda in their flawed Anthropos form uses the listed array of Attribute dots, using the amount given for their permanent Odium. Rather than assigning the Physical, Mental, and Social categories, they assign their sets of dots to the Power, Finesse, and Resistance categories. The category chosen as their primary category determines which type of Garuda they are.

Attribute Maximums
The first number listed is the maximum for their non-primary Attributes, while the second number listed is for their Primary category.

Ferocity
No mere pitter-patter of rain or sunshower, a Garuda's storm is a terrifying, feral thing. Treat it as an Extreme Environment at the indicated level; while in Ornitharkos, a Garuda adds their Ferocity to their primary Attribute.

Powers
A Garuda has the indicated number of special powers (dost we have a name for them?); a temporary increase in Odium can result in a Garuda acquiring a new "toy" to use on the hunt. Powers can modify their Storm or can improve their Ornitharkos; some do both.

Blending
A Garuda takes the listed penalty on any roll to pass as a human being; they stand out like a sore thumb covered in feathers.


I think we need fancier names; shadowbird sounds awkward to me.

Some basic features of the template will be:

Odium increases.
Ability to sense Enkindlings.
Weather-based Depression (basically, people lose Willpower whenever they would take damage from the Storm, even if they are outside or otherwise immune. Other Garuda are unaffected.)

[Almarck]

...Small fan?

Of what, I might ask?

You recall that Endless Space/Infinite Macabre setting you made years back? It's ages ago and I presume discontinued, but I was quite fond of it when it was still being printed.




On Garuda names, perhaps we could draw from Mythology here? Pheonixes, Tengu, and uh, what do we call thunderbirds?

[Amechra]

Endless Space/Infinite Macabre was excellent, by the way.

Eh, what the heck:

Phoenixes, Morrigans, and Animikii (an Ojibwa word meaning a specific type of thunderbird) they are, unless someone has protests.

[Leliel]

Yeah, I keep on intending to go back to that thing and...nope.

Maybe I'll necro it, though.

[One Tin Soldier]

Endless Space/Infinite Macabre was excellent, by the way.

Eh, what the heck:

Phoenixes, Morrigans, and Animikii (an Ojibwa word meaning a specific type of thunderbird) they are, unless someone has protests.

Sounds alright, though those will probably be the alternate, more official-sounding names that dragons use sometimes. In the text, we'll mostly refer to them as firebirds, shadowbirds, and thunderbirds. Unless Xallace disagrees.

[Xallace]

I feel like it would be the opposite, with the official names being used in the text and the X-bird names being subtitles and/or casual titles used by dragons.

[Xallace]

In other news, I've filled out the Despoilers half-legacy and changed the name of the Lair Merit to Nest. Lairs were already what prommies called their home bases and its apparently a thing in Beast too. Nest has also been changed so assuming Drakonos while in your nest is free, as long as you stay inside it.

[Almarck]

Such a shame then, Leliel, quite liked it. Had my own plans for doing something similar, but well... settings are complicated.


Avoiding side tracks?
Any other changes and what else is on the drawing board?

Anyways, I'll second the "fancynames" being official. More... real than what we got originally. Also seconding Amercha's suggestion for Odium as it looks functional.

Recomending that to stand in for "basic" lightning and fire attacks, Garuda should all come with the Blast Numen. Morrigans can probably blast their opponents with feathers or something. Works as both ranged and melee powers.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Asking again, because it was never answered:

What do you guys think of Hives using monuments as a Signal Booster, of sorts, for their hive-control-ness thingie?

[Xallace]

I'm down with Hive-boosting Monuments, and if Soldier agrees then we'll make it official. (I also want to talk to him about Hoardlings again, thank you for inadvertently reminding me.)

If Garuda use Numen then Blast would make sense. Fluffing Morrigans as some sort of poisonous or noxious attack would work. As it stands we haven't actually decided how to model their specific powers.

I also like Amechras Odium model a lot, though I might tweak one or two things. If Soldier agrees, we'll write it in.

As for other things in the works:

As soon as I find my flash drive we will have a Monument section.

Slayer Arete need to be finished, and maybe tweaked to include a few more non-combat options.

A "Dragon Psychology" section is in the works (a little of it is already up in the "Dreaming Big" section). This section will also discuss the Drakonos in more detail.

The histories of each Dynasty need to be filled out.

The history and division of Heritages still needs to be decided (what do we mean by hou of X? Who were the dragons these divisions are named for? We discussed this a little some pages back).

Aaaand whatever else anyone feels compelled to talk about. Your characters! Your favorite part of the game! Tarasque rock-offs!

[Amechra]

I have returned! (Stupid 24hr (electrical) blackout...) My area was visited by a pissy Animikii last night; it's easy to forget how bad thunderstorms can be until they knock out power to 600 people, throw your garage door off its track, and tear down swathes of trees (there might have been a tornado. I dunno.)

What weather are Morrigans, by the way? My current mental image is of them as roving unseasonable frosts and strangely short days. At high Ferocity, they are blizzards in July. That kinda models the three types of weather I'm familiar with (Hot 'n' Dry, Rainy 'n' Thunderous, Hot 'n' Dry). Their "blast" is a cold-snap that causes nasty frostbite and hypothermia.

Then again, I also have a small, vague idea that they don't really have a ranged attack; they have a "mark" that makes their Storm more actively hostile towards the poor sap who gets marked. So if you fight a Phoenix, say, they mark you with their fierce, hateful stare, and your body starts overheating as if it were much hotter than it actually is. My original idea was a Personal Tilt that causes you to treat the Environment Level of their Storm as if it were one level higher... which includes taking the storm with you. They would also prevent you from recovering Willpower through rest, by making it hard for you to get comfortable - predators are watching.

The Animikii mark would draw lightning, and even outside of the storm you suffer unusually sharp static shock and everything you use feels damp and uncomfortable.

The Morrigan mark would lower your body temperature, and would make you feel chills regardless of how warm the room is or how many blankets you use.

The Phoenix mark would make everything too hot, and you'd run a mild fever (just enough to be uncomfortable).


Play-style-wise, Garuda should, in my mind, be geared for hit-and-run blitzes. I'm seeing a combination of raptors (strike exposed prey, then run before anything on the ground can react) and vultures (the environment does the work for you). Can I get some opinions on this?


Also, this came up on my DeviantArt feed, and I thought you'd all get a kick out of it.
http://pre01.deviantart.net/8485/th/pre/f/2015/163/a/8/daily_painting__934__arboreal_dragon_by_cryptid_cr eations-d8x2ura.png

[Sgt. Cookie]

Actually, there was something on my mind. The Tyranos is the "perfect" form, of a Dragon, right? So, wouldn't it stand to reason that there are "perfect" Birthrights to go with it?

About all I have for this are names for these "perfections":

Incandescence of Quetzalcoatl

Corruption of Fafnir

Perpetuity of Lerna

Voraciousness of Nidhögg

Oceans of Hualong


That's a cool picture Amchera, btw.

[One Tin Soldier]

I'm down with Hive-boosting Monuments, and if Soldier agrees then we'll make it official. (I also want to talk to him about Hoardlings again, thank you for inadvertently reminding me.)

If Garuda use Numen then Blast would make sense. Fluffing Morrigans as some sort of poisonous or noxious attack would work. As it stands we haven't actually decided how to model their specific powers.

I also like Amechras Odium model a lot, though I might tweak one or two things. If Soldier agrees, we'll write it in.

As for other things in the works:

As soon as I find my flash drive we will have a Monument section.

Slayer Arete need to be finished, and maybe tweaked to include a few more non-combat options.

A "Dragon Psychology" section is in the works (a little of it is already up in the "Dreaming Big" section). This section will also discuss the Drakonos in more detail.

The histories of each Dynasty need to be filled out.

The history and division of Heritages still needs to be decided (what do we mean by hou of X? Who were the dragons these divisions are named for? We discussed this a little some pages back).

Aaaand whatever else anyone feels compelled to talk about. Your characters! Your favorite part of the game! Tarasque rock-offs!

I'm fine with those. Like you said, I would make a few tweaks to Odium. (For one, the way it was written here feels more like rules for PCs, not NPCs.)

I've also been thinking that Morrigans should be good at isolating people. Like, sometimes the fog they bring with them interferes with communication, deadening sound, radio signals, cell reception. And like we've mentioned, disease and rot is probably their primary means of attack.

[Almarck]

I'm down for Morrigans being cold based, although the original idea was shadow. Simple, primal elements since that means we got fire, ice, and lightning. (Now we just need to figure out how to use them to capture a Lugia...)

The alternative though would be if morrigans just hurled death and shadow antilife if we want to make them more "raven-like" though ,which was more of less my original proposal to make them more... subtle. Total black out and living shadow were the ideas, make them things Edgar Alen Poe would be proud of. Then again cold and darkness go hand in hand together don't they...? Look at Queen Mab.

Anyways, I'm thinking that it'd be simplest to build Garuda like spirits and as such use Numen as it saves on work on your guy's end. With that in mind, we just have that base form Garudas start out with blast representing their simplest attack, with additional starting Numen determined by Garuda type. I'm sure there's probably an area control one somewhere.

Also makes new Numen easier as the framework is already established. Once the base is set up, adding more and more Numen is a simple choice of Storyteller fiat.

Although I am on the fence on whether they should default to hit and run as Amercha describes or maybe "breed" determines what they are inclined to do... Hm...


I do like that idea, Cookie, but I think it'scome rather too late/there's stuff that already supplements it in the Birthrights.


Spurned revision on the shelf, btw?

Anyways, tommorrow or so, I should be able to reread on Slayers and see if I got any ideas.

You going to do Slayer/Hero interaction?

[Amechra]

You know, the best way to get discussion going on the Spurned is to write something up; just let the ink flow.

[Almarck]

You know, the best way to get discussion going on the Spurned is to write something up; just let the ink flow.

Well, I proposed some stuff weeks ago, but nothing came of it since the whole revision of Birthrights came about. The fact that dragons as a template lack so many "universaal rules" compared to say werewolves makes it hard. Plus I am not so sure: Would giving Spurned a Birthright work?

I'd really quite like it if there was a way for nonHeirs to temporarily assume a draconic guise myself, maybe as a specific Spurned power.

[Xallace]

I was under the impression Morrigans weather was a choking mist or fog, so deep you couldn't see more than a few feet in front of you, like a late autumn night. ...we seem to have several different ideas going here.

I like the idea of the Garuda "mark," it reminds me of the Curse Manifestation in Geist. If we focus especially on the feeling of the hunter watching you then I think it'd be especially suitable. As far as blasts go, they could have both; Garuda should have some inherent ability to kill a dragon.

Garuda using hit and run tactics is about right for how we've been envisioning them. Soldier and I discussed thunderbirds especially being ambush predators. Morrigans you spend most of the fight just trying to find, and Phoenixes tend to be a little more straightforward.

It's funny you mention upgraded birthrights, Sergeant. I brought up the idea of "epic level" legacies and birthrights in private chat a little bit ago, but we tabled it to work on other things.

Edit: As far as spurnes go, I don't really have ideas for what to do with them. We should remake the Knights of Siegfried into a Spurned organization, though. Maybe all Spurned get some extra benefit out of Heirlooms?

[One Tin Soldier]

I was under the impression Morrigans weather was a choking mist or fog, so deep you couldn't see more than a few feet in front of you, like a late autumn night. ...we seem to have several different ideas going here.

Yeah, that's much better articulated than what I said.


Edit: As far as spurnes go, I don't really have ideas for what to do with them. We should remake the Knights of Siegfried into a Spurned organization, though. Maybe all Spurned get some extra benefit out of Heirlooms?

I had actually been thinking about the Knights being Spurned, and I remembered that the whole reason we created them in the first place was to draw a connection to Zirnitra. Specifically, the possibility that Zirnirta was a human gifted in spellcasting.

Now, that doesn't mean that I'm completely opposed to making the change, but it does mean giving them completely new fluff. I know Xallace and I discussed the possibility of their goal being to claim what they're due by force.

Which ties back to giving them new abilities: how, fluff-wise, would a failed Inheritance empower that individual? Perhaps they can buy General Legacies, but don't get the stat boosts? The fluff of the Knights means they can definitely cast sorceries – do they buy up Sorcery just like dragons, or through another method? If we're making them more like Wolf-Blooded, then maybe they only get access to one or two Legacies, or composite abilities similar to Legacies. There's a lot of possibilities.

[Almarck]

It's fairly simple really: the Spurned were found wanting, they were not worthy enough, atleast in the Heir's eyes. They nearly went through the chance as Heirs did but failed due to a lack of power or willingness that makes them truly "worthy".

The change is a "test" which signifies Inheritance is not far off. Dragons would thus believe you are worthy of receiving it or not.

If we go by that logic, thereby the Knights are thus attempting to prove that they are.

===
As far as Legacies for spurned, I don't find it impressive enough actually. I mean, compare having near werewolf regen all the time or having the power to shapeshift into a wolf or into Dalu form (both of which have bonuses that make them way better than any one 1st dot Legacy), or having a spirit as a familar. Granted, they're all minor boons, but largely their effects are more astonishing than just an attribte or mechanical boost.

At the same time though, making not-Legacies for Spurned is going to take time.
I've thought of a few powers roughly equal to tells
-Very basic versions of Birthrights. like say being able to make a simple acid or breathe underwater or heal somewhat fast.
-A Spurned can assume what their "supposed" draconic form was meant to be, it (2-3dots with not Birthright), but is situational/causes the Spurned to go feral (Spurned after all failed to control the dragon within)
-having the ability to summon Hordelings or create spectral ones.

Sorcery is indepenant of the Template, but Spurned can make use of them as a "bonus"



And no, my original pitch was Ravens and Tengu from mythology. They evolved into shadowbirds, then morrigans by Amercha, then somehow got accosiated with ice and cold... do we need to make a 4th type of Garuda to break them apart? The problem with that is massive thematic overlap so, my secondary pitch was birds of "cold" and "darkness" a la Mab.

[Amechra]

DAMN IT!

The forum isn't letting me access the full editor.

Anyway (this was formatted, but I don't care enough to go through and fix it)...


I was just confused as to what weather they were, and winter made sense as a "shadow" weather.

Deep, dark fogs make perfect sense to me, so I guess it was a misreading error on my part.

As for the Spurned... I think a pseudo Birthright that gives them the two one-dot Auxiliaries of a Legacy. If they want more power, they take the Heirloom merit, or join an order like the Knights (who, I'd imagine, have access to "higher" Auxiliaries in a similar combo, or would teach the rudiments of Sorcery). They don't get shape-changing, Birthrights, or the expanded Willpower pool.

If a particular Auxiliary requires you to be in Drakonos, they can instead spend one Willpower to gain that benefit for a Scene.

So (I forget the term we were going to go for, so I'll call them Rewards)...

The Reward of Mountains
The Spurned can taste the boundless strength of a true Dragon; they may lift and carry any object whose Size is less than or equal to their own without a roll or any penalties due to weight, and receive a +3 bonus on all Strength + Stamina rolls made to lift objects larger than them. In addition, they may spend one Willpower to draw upon the primal violence of their draconic birthright; for the rest of the Scene, the bonus from All-Out attacks increases from +2 to +4.

The Reward of the Inferno
Despite their failure to inherit, the Spurned can still gain some of the dominion their more potent cousins receive over fire. A Spurned with this Reward is immune to damage, Conditions, and Tilts inflicted by undirected fire; a flamethrower or a Dragon's breath would still burn their flesh, but they could handle hot coals or walk through an inferno without fear of harm. In addition, they may increase or reduce the Size of a fire as if they possessed Psychokinesis (Fire) •••; reducing a fire to Size 0 extinguishes it.

The Reward of Eternity
Though they cannot see forever, the Spurned can inherit some of the piercing gaze of their heritage. Any penalties they suffer to a visual Perception roll due to distance or scale is reduced by one. In addition, if the Spurned interacts with another character for five minutes, they may choose one of the following:

They understand that character's native language for the rest of the Scene.
They learn their Vice (or equivalent).
They learn their Virtue (or equivalent).
They learn the value of one of their Attributes, Merits, or Skills.

[One Tin Soldier]

It's fairly simple really: the Spurned were found wanting, they were not worthy enough, atleast in the Heir's eyes. They nearly went through the chance as Heirs did but failed due to a lack of power or willingness that makes them truly "worthy".

The change is a "test" which signifies Inheritance is not far off. Dragons would thus believe you are worthy of receiving it or not.

If we go by that logic, thereby the Knights are thus attempting to prove that they are.

===
As far as Legacies for spurned, I don't find it impressive enough actually. I mean, compare having near werewolf regen all the time or having the power to shapeshift into a wolf or into Dalu form (both of which have bonuses that make them way better than any one 1st dot Legacy), or having a spirit as a familar. Granted, they're all minor boons, but largely their effects are more astonishing than just an attribte or mechanical boost.

At the same time though, making not-Legacies for Spurned is going to take time.
I've thought of a few powers roughly equal to tells
-Very basic versions of Birthrights. like say being able to make a simple acid or breathe underwater or heal somewhat fast.
-A Spurned can assume what their "supposed" draconic form was meant to be, it (2-3dots with not Birthright), but is situational/causes the Spurned to go feral (Spurned after all failed to control the dragon within)
-having the ability to summon Hordelings or create spectral ones.

Sorcery is indepenant of the Template, but Spurned can make use of them as a "bonus"

The thing is, that's not quite right. Being Spurned has nothing to do with "worthiness," really (though Knights might think it does). Heck, most of the time it's simply because they didn't happen across another dragon who could give them their Inheritance. Their identity crisis faded away or was resolved on its own without interference from an Heir, so they stopped being an Heir Apparent and became Spurned.

Now the whole point of Inheritance is that the Metamorphosis isn't an instinctual skill. Spurned should definitely not get access to anything like a full Drakonos form, not on their own. Scaled-down Birthright effects appeal to me more than anything else, since those are the only innate powers that dragons get, really.
The thing about the Knights is that we have an already built way for them to be a proper threat to dragons – drinking blood to get Auxiliaries they can use with Heirlooms. Plus Sorcery, which can be powerful in its own right. So don't worry about making them innately a match for a dragon, or even a Wolf-Blooded.

I kinda like the way Amechra is going with it, with the Rewards. Though I feel like there might be a way to do them so they're not just replicating Auxiliaries. Especially if it's linked to their identity in some way.



And no, my original pitch was Ravens and Tengu from mythology. They evolved into shadowbirds, then morrigans by Amercha, then somehow got accosiated with ice and cold... do we need to make a 4th type of Garuda to break them apart? The problem with that is massive thematic overlap so, my secondary pitch was birds of "cold" and "darkness" a la Mab.

No, we don't need an icebird. Xallace and I discussed this a ways back, and we decided that blizzards are just what happens when a thunderbird shows up in winter. A shadowbird showing up in winter might exacerbate the cold, but I don't think they should be outright associated with it.

[Almarck]

K, I forgot the whole "needs teacher" requirement and forgot that it was not an instinctive thing like say Werewolf is.

But yeah at this point, I'll go with Amercha and scaled down Birthrights as that's less work and reasonable.



As for the ice bird, I'm absolutely fine with it. I don't think outside of Pokemon was that ever a big thing. By the way, what do you feel is a Peacock inspired Garuda going to work?

Also, is flight going to come standard for Garuda, no exceptions? Since birds are all about flight and it's rule rather than the exception.

[Xallace]

For their Ornitharkos form at least, since they're all based on flighted birds (eagles, hawks, and ravens. Though I guess a case could be made for thunderbirds being condors). Flight in Anthropos might be achievable for some of them via an "angel wings" style partial metamorphosis.

[One Tin Soldier]

Yes, flight is going to be standard to all Garuda.

[Xallace]

A peacock Garuda could be a flamboyant Phoenix, if that's what you're asking. We'll generally fluff them as eagles, but nothing stops you from having fun with their bird forms in your own games (see previous mention of condor-Animikii).

We've also officially decided that we are going to imply that the true "self" of the Garuda are their weather, and their bodies are more like avatars. It should provide a nice, alien perspective to them (not to mention, also makes the dragon-murdering feel weirdly personal).

[Leliel]

A peacock Garuda could be a flamboyant Phoenix, if that's what you're asking. We'll generally fluff them as eagles, but nothing stops you from having fun with their bird forms in your own games (see previous mention of condor-Animikii).

We've also officially decided that we are going to imply that the true "self" of the Garuda are their weather, and their bodies are more like avatars. It should provide a nice, alien perspective to them (not to mention, also makes the dragon-murdering feel weirdly personal).

Hm, that actually gives me an idea for their weaknesses: we could call them Refuges, and they're ways the storm is either forcefully quelled or can't get past a defense. Sort of like Bans, but rather than true Banes, they have weaknesses that don't harm, but debuff them as the living storm quells.

[Xallace]

That's a pretty interesting idea! Like there are ways to "take shelter from the storm," as it were. Do you have any examples in mind?

[Leliel]

That's a pretty interesting idea! Like there are ways to "take shelter from the storm," as it were. Do you have any examples in mind?

...Actually, not really.

I do have things in mind; rituals meant to control the rain or invoke the sun to shine through. Maybe gold is a bane for some of them, maybe a state of emotional calm. A lot of them should be social, I think, to make them more than physical opponents.

I can tell you the default effect is that they lose Fury, and if you hit the minimum, they start racking up extremely debilitating Conditions and Tilts.

[Amechra]

Idea!

You know how Monuments have Costs? You know how they can become insulted if you perform them improperly, or don't pay proper tribute?

Use the same system for Refuges!

The first time a Cost is paid in a Scene, the Garuda's Odium drops by one.

I'm not sure the exact Tilts and Conditions to use, except that they should be Persistent if you pay the Major cost.

[Xallace]

The question then would be how do we give hints to players as to what the Refuges cost is? It's something the Garuda would guard well, I'm sure, if they're aware of it at all.

[DreamingGod05]

Alright, so I am starting up a game, now that the Demon Translation Guide has come out, for my wife. One of our friends LOVES dragons and wants to play one. So I showed him this, and he loves it. My questions comes to the creators. How would the Heirs and the Fallen interact? How does their past match up? Was the Draconic Empire in the World Before the Fall? Was it after? Where do dragons COME from? Do dragons wonder where their race started?

[One Tin Soldier]

Alright, so I am starting up a game, now that the Demon Translation Guide has come out, for my wife. One of our friends LOVES dragons and wants to play one. So I showed him this, and he loves it. My questions comes to the creators. How would the Heirs and the Fallen interact? How does their past match up? Was the Draconic Empire in the World Before the Fall? Was it after? Where do dragons COME from? Do dragons wonder where their race started?

That is a great question. However, we know practically nothing about the Fallen, so I'll have to do some research and get back to you.

Glad to hear that your friend likes our work!

[DreamingGod05]

Ah. That does make things difficult! Well, to introduce you two to (imo) one of White Wolf's best games, here's a good overview on the Fallen (demons, and fallen angels) http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_(DTF)

[One Tin Soldier]

Ah. That does make things difficult! Well, to introduce you two to (imo) one of White Wolf's best games, here's a good overview on the Fallen (demons, and fallen angels) http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_(DTF)

Ultimately, I think it comes down to how much you, the ST (I'm assuming you're STing the game?) want the history of dragons to be clear. The nature of the nWoD is that histories are usually obscured. In a typical Dragon game, there is room for debate about the specifics of the Empire, how it fell, when exactly that was, or if it truly existed in the first place. If you want the Fallen to have an answer for it, then there are a few possibilities.

1) The Empire existed before the Fall. This option tracks with the idea that dragons ruled the earth before humans came to power, as humanity's existence was one of the driving forces behind the Fall. The usurpation of the Empire could have been long before the Fall, in which case dragons might be almost as mysterious to demons as they are to humans. Or it could have been a very recent event at the time of the Fall, in which case demons might have even taken humanity's side in the usurpation.

2) The Empire's usurpation took place after the Fall. This is probably the least likely option, as it would impose heavily on the history of the Fallen, unless it happens to involve dragons (or some kind of "evil" force) ruling the world. Integrating this option would take more familiarity with Fallen than I've been able to gain from what I've read.

3) Demons have no clear recollection of a draconic empire. This is sort of a cop-out answer, but it would make for the most mystery between the two groups. I saw a mention that demons don't have their full memories when they live in human hosts, so it's possible that the Empire was one category of knowledge lost in the transfer for the PCs. In this case, finding other demons and asking about the subject could reveal more information. Or perhaps they didn't encounter the Empire during ancient times. The world was a big place back then; perhaps the "ruled the world" thing is an exaggeration on modern dragons' parts, and the Empire was in reality just a single isolated area. Or perhaps dragons didn't rise to power until after the Fall, when only the Earthbound would have been around to witness it. Or whatever other justification you can think of.

Take your pick, mix and match, or generally toy around with the idea until you have something you like. I'm generally not going to give a single canon answer.

As for how they interact, I'll have to find out a bit more before I can say for sure. Dragons would certainly not like the idea of being possessed, and might react violently if that's the first thing they learn about demons. (Even though their Kauchaomai would almost certainly prevent the possibility of normal possession, from what I understand of it. Strength of soul is what makes a dragon.) Beyond that, it would probably come to the specifics of how the groups meet that determines how well they would interact. Some would be indifferent or standoffish, some would work well together, and some would quickly come to blows. Given that you'll have a Dragon PC in a group of Demons, I'd recommend either friendly relations, to make the teamup easy, or brink-of-war type relations, to make drama from the fact that the PCs are working together.

I may have more comments as I learn more about the Fallen.

EDIT: Dangit, I'm going to go buy the Translation Guide just to answer this question, aren't I?

[Leliel]

I'd say it depend on the Fallen faction.

Many Faustians, the believers in the original mission of exalting humanity (with them at the center of it) might deeply distrust dragons, for being the Elohim's replacements, and ones that don't look like humans or angels at all. Luciferian loyalists to the Morningstar might see something of their vanished general's tarnished dignity and decide to approach them about an entirely different Great Dragon (or assume they are the mythical Dragon of the Apocalypse, to serve as Lucifer's super-weapons, those meant to show that humans don't need God and delegitimizing her rule). Cryptics would simply be rather curious as they are with everything, and Reconcilers would have the most variance of opinion; on the one hand, they might by the Luciferian perspective on them and assume they're a creation of God's greatest enemy, or assume they were created by Her (Fallen tends to use female pronouns to refer to God as the demons have a long history of trolling patriarchal religion and know God is any and no gender) like any other-and dragons have a long association with virtues like honor, courage, and good leadership...

Raveners would try to kill them, but they're trying to kill everyone, so...

[Xallace]

I gotta say, I'm totally down with interpreting dragons as Satan's super-weapons. Believers in that would make for an interesting group of potential allies. Maybe a human apocalypse cult?

[One Tin Soldier]

Personally, my favorite interpretation is that demons were arrayed against the dragons during the usurpation, to aid humanity in getting out from under the dragons' rule. (This would place the Usurpation around the same time as the Fall. Possibly even one causing the other. ) So now, coming back, they can discover that, while dragons were successfully removed from power, they still managed to stick around. And some of them want to set things back to the way they were.
How an individual demon might react to that depends on the demon in question, and their Faction. Some might feel that the dragons have been punished enough, and now sit in their proper place. Others might want to see dragons finished off for good. Still others might recognize that, aside from distant cultural heritage, modern dragons have basically nothing to do with their ancestors.

[Xallace]

Does the Fall have a particular timeline? Because we've made it a point that the Usurpation is very difficult to pin down, chronologically.

[Almarck]

Well I did a quick read through of the backstory using some online summaries and to sum it up...

The Fallen are the creators of mankind and were disappointed humans when they were first created simply just behaved like animals. They asked God for help but we're in a sense killed off for going to meet him. And well they chose to then bestow civilization on humankind.... which probably sets them at the very latest in the neolithic time.
Either way they ggot imprisoned and eventually got related and awoke to a world with unfamiliar supernaturals. At least that's how it was in the first edition. So there's no hard numbers but there's an official sequence of events that happened.

Actually this reminds me, were humans ever a major part of the Empire?

[One Tin Soldier]

Well I did a quick read through of the backstory using some online summaries and to sum it up...

The Fallen are the creators of mankind and were disappointed humans when they were first created simply just behaved like animals. They asked God for help but we're in a sense killed off for going to meet him. And well they chose to then bestow civilization on humankind.... which probably sets them at the very latest in the neolithic time.
Either way they ggot imprisoned and eventually got related and awoke to a world with unfamiliar supernaturals. At least that's how it was in the first edition. So there's no hard numbers but there's an official sequence of events that happened.

Actually this reminds me, were humans ever a major part of the Empire?

That actually meshes pretty well with the timeline I suggested. Humans were generally considered just a step above animals in the Empire.

[One Tin Soldier]

Just wanted to keep this thread from going necro. Xallace and I have been taking a bit of a break from hardcore work on the game, but I just got back into it and wrote up more material on the Xiuhcoatl.

[Xallace]

Coming up next:

The Nagaraja's Orwellian dystopia
A more coherent Garuda section (including all the stuff we've talked about so far)
Monuments! (Seriously, we need to write that section in)
Dragon Psychology Today
The Themes section, detailing the ideas of Transcendent Will, Dragons vs. The World, Everyone Goes Back In The Box, etc.

[Almarck]

Should we get back on the Monument discussion then? What thoughts have spun since then?

[Xallace]

I think we've got the general ideas and mechanics of Monuments pinned down at this point. We do need to come up with specific benefits, costs, and special features.

[Almarck]

So what's confirmed for Monuments? And what's left to question about?

As for generating powers, perhaps using Influence mechanics might be a good idea to set a "scale"?

[One Tin Soldier]

So what's confirmed for Monuments? And what's left to question about?

As for generating powers, perhaps using Influence mechanics might be a good idea to set a "scale"?

Monuments are still where we left them. Xallace and I haven't really done any additional work beyond what we've posted here.

We've been continuing to work on the dynasty section, and have begun the Draconic Mind section. It's only 3 pages so far, but those pages are entirely text, so there's a good amount of information there already. I've also done a bit of work on the Serenity section, giving some examples of Dissonance triggers and associated penalties (or bonuses). The only actual change there is that now your Serenity dot rating affects your dissonance die pool, in line with the other 2e Integrity stats. The only thing left to finish that section is the effects of what you roll, most importantly what Conditions they give. We could simply copy over the Integrity Conditions (with a couple omissions), since Serenity is already very close to Integrity in what it represents.

Also, Almarck, I saw your mech homebrew, and I really like it. I would love to see a dragon go up against a TF:V cell with a Jötunn. Or, alternately, watching someone with one of those Superheavy mechs throw their hat in the "Dragon vs. Mummytron vs. Unified Hive" ring.
¿Porque no las dos?

[Xallace]

Or, alternately, watching someone with one of those Superheavy mechs throw their hat in the "Dragon vs. Mummytron vs. Unified Hive" ring.


vs. Leviathans, lest we forget. Our commitment to giant monster battles remains unabated.

Speaking of, we should really define what that Unification ability actually does, even if the effects are nebulous and up to ST adjucation.

[Almarck]

You also need to exempt certain Supernaturals from assimilation, due to their unique Integrity mechanics.

In any event, we might want to provide 3 seperate "Ascension options" for Hives.

One is the giant monster, the other is that they unleash some sort of WMD that wipes out (or converts) anyone in a statewide area, and then the last would be to ascend to an abstract form and... leave. Only the first one matters to be stated up though.

And it's good to know that you're still working on Monuments and such.

As for who'd win in a fight, I explicitly designed the mechs to tangle and go toe to toe with most heavy weight supernaturals in the mid range. They got the durability to take hits and the strength to give back the hurt as well as carry heavy weapons as if they were small arms. A good enough mundane pilot could stand up in a melee barring esoteric or antitech powers. However, once the supernaturals start breaking 6 dot attributes, the mech's advantages slowly become obsolete as the pilot can't keep up with them eventually. You'd need to really up either the pilot or the mech to compensate for this somehow, which prohibits entry into the "MegaMash FFA". Granted, I suppose I can make a "Titan" class mech that functions like a 40k Titan to offset the fact normal humans have limits.

(Werewolves in particular have so many powers that can sabotage Mechs it's not even funny. Rending claws that add bonus damage AND negate points of durability on claw attacks automatically when striking objects, the ability to enslave the mech away from its pilot while its being riden, cause it to take conditions with a growl, or in one notable case flatout cause a Mech to fall into a collection of scrap metal without even bothering with durability or structure damage.)

[Xallace]

You also need to exempt certain Supernaturals from assimilation, due to their unique Integrity mechanics.

That we do!


In any event, we might want to provide 3 seperate "Ascension options" for Hives.

One is the giant monster, the other is that they unleash some sort of WMD that wipes out (or converts) anyone in a statewide area, and then the last would be to ascend to an abstract form and... leave. Only the first one matters to be stated up though.

I am willing to get behind both options 1 & 3. The "WMD" seems a little too... masquerade-breaking. Plus I think the slow conversion of drones one-at-a-time is scarier, more thematic, and explains why Hives haven't taken over entire metropolitan areas.


And it's good to know that you're still working on Monuments and such.


SPEAKING OF!

Chapter 6: Monuments is now in the document. When I have time in the next couple of days I'll comb back through the thread and pick up the Blessing/Cost ideas we've come up with already. What it still needs are:

A) Formatting (I wrote it in a word doc and copy-pasted). I will get around to this next week, maybe.
B) More Blessings & Costs
C) Individual special ability write-ups (like awakened spirits and the like)
D) Expedrience costs. I don't think we ever really decided on what a Monument costs to build. My vote is that they're pretty expensive.

[Almarck]

Honestly, treating Monuments as a Merit would be the simplest way to handle cost.

One of the things I realize about 2e is that... anything over 5 exp needs to be really worth it to be worth buying. Anything more than that makes it hard for a single character to buy without saving for atleast one or two sessions.

So, each dot of the Monument's effectiveness.


Also, I kinda find it funny an offhanded suggestion for a feature for a potential antagonist evolved into something that needs it own subsection.

[Bobbybobby99]

This Rocks!
In all seriousness, keep at it. This just sort of made me prance around my deck, fantasizing about playing this. That generally only happens with DnD 3.5. I just sort of got all giddy at the thought of playing a dragon, and the fluff text was just wonderful, and I loved the mechanics, and I got disappointed at the incomplete legacies because I want to play this so much.
Go You!
Rock On!

[One Tin Soldier]

This Rocks!
In all seriousness, keep at it. This just sort of made me prance around my deck, fantasizing about playing this. That generally only happens with DnD 3.5. I just sort of got all giddy at the thought of playing a dragon, and the fluff text was just wonderful, and I loved the mechanics, and I got disappointed at the incomplete legacies because I want to play this so much.
Go You!
Rock On!

For what it's worth, the Legacies are complete enough to make a starting character. (Though you could have enough XP to buy the 4th dot of a legacy and an auxiliary within a couple sessions, if you really focused the character on it). Don't worry, those auxes will be filled in eventually, once we get back to working on that part of the game.

And thanks! We're always glad to hear that people like what we've made.

[Xallace]

For anyone interested, Soldier and I are both on the Dragon doc's chat with a fan from Onyx Path if anyone would like to hop on and discuss the game! : )

[Amechra]

I am also there but I am apparently not part of the chat?

[One Tin Soldier]

I am also there but I am apparently not part of the chat?

Sorry Amechra, I must have just missed you getting on.

[Amechra]

I had to get off anyway - I have an apartment to clean and laundry to do.

[Xallace]

You may also need to be logged in with a google account to access the chat. I did see an anonymous user pop on at one point, if that was you.

[Amechra]

I was, though...

[Xallace]

Oh! Then... huh. I have no idea. Really sorry about that.

[Xallace]

Just a progress update: Draconic Minds has been expanded, a handful of new Aretes have been added, and Monuments finally has a section (with some concrete options!).

[Amechra]

Blessing of Horror
Within the auspices of the Monument, mortal minds break. An ever-flowing torrent of psychic violation erupts forth, coating everything nearby in mental filth. It reflects an older time (a better time?), where mortals were ground below the heels of their true masters - where Dragons were the true rulers of all they surveyed.
Insult: If the Monument is insulted, all residents recover an additional Willpower from resting.
Minor: If the Minor cost is paid, any resident with the Integrity advantage cannot recover Willpower from resting while within the Monument's Reach.
Median: If the Median cost is paid, any resident with the Integrity advantage cannot recover Willpower from resting, and suffers a Breaking Point at -2 each time they attempt to rest.
Major: If the Major cost is paid, any resident with the Integrity advantage cannot recover Willpower from resting, suffers a Breaking Point at -2 each time they attempt to rest, and suffer a further -2 penalty to all Breaking Point rolls.
Steward: The Steward finds their Enkindling to become viciously effective. Once during the period, the Steward may treat one Enkindling roll as an automatic Success.



Sometimes a monument is a way of blessing the population around it with good fortune and prosperity. Sometimes, though... it's a weapon. As far as rumours go, there used to be methods of focusing a Monument, allowing it to skip over arbitrary segments of the population.

Without the ability to aim, such Monuments have become almost too toxic to use - if you want to reduce a place to a ghost-town, then success is a sacrifice (or other cost) away.

[Xallace]

Blessing of Horror
Within the auspices of the Monument, mortal minds break. An ever-flowing torrent of psychic violation erupts forth, coating everything nearby in mental filth. It reflects an older time (a better time?), where mortals were ground below the heels of their true masters - where Dragons were the true rulers of all they surveyed.
Insult: If the Monument is insulted, all residents recover an additional Willpower from resting.
Minor: If the Minor cost is paid, any resident with the Integrity advantage cannot recover Willpower from resting while within the Monument's Reach.
Median: If the Median cost is paid, any resident with the Integrity advantage cannot recover Willpower from resting, and suffers a Breaking Point at -2 each time they attempt to rest.
Major: If the Major cost is paid, any resident with the Integrity advantage cannot recover Willpower from resting, suffers a Breaking Point at -2 each time they attempt to rest, and suffer a further -2 penalty to all Breaking Point rolls.
Steward: The Steward finds their Enkindling to become viciously effective. Once during the period, the Steward may treat one Enkindling roll as an automatic Success.



Sometimes a monument is a way of blessing the population around it with good fortune and prosperity. Sometimes, though... it's a weapon. As far as rumours go, there used to be methods of focusing a Monument, allowing it to skip over arbitrary segments of the population.

Without the ability to aim, such Monuments have become almost too toxic to use - if you want to reduce a place to a ghost-town, then success is a sacrifice (or other cost) away.

Nice! I like this one. Very different from what we have so far.

And we have so far is as follows:

Blessings: Horror, Prosperity, Victory, Wealth
Costs: Charity, Competition, Sacrifice

[Almarck]

Alright so, since I felt even the strongest Mechs in my Homebrew are stuff that high level dragons could quite literally stepped on since high tier dragons are ship size and Mechs are… IFV size, I felt that I might as well give my contribution to the “Mega Free For All”, something ridiculous enough to compete with the maxed out dragons and other giant supernaturals.

Yeah, I know the below is hilariously over the top and overpowered, but the idea was to allow a maxed out normal guy to stand shoulder to shoulder against the titans you’ll bring.



Dragonslayer, the Titan
Strength 15
Durability 12
Size 25
Structure 37
Acceleration 7
Speed (Safe/Max): 14/35
Battery: 5
Handling: 0

Comes equipped with the following standard upgrades:
Amphibious 5, Boost, Flight 1, Manual Dexterity 2, Neural Interface, Onboard Computer, Targetting Systems.

The following unique abilities:
-Impossible Alloys: Due to the bizarre composition that is far beyond what modern science can provide, Dragonslayer’s shell is considered magical when it benefits it. Additionally, the Hull may under no circumstances may ever be breached without the pilot’s direct commands.
- Lazurus Systems Even when the Dragonslayer falls in combat, it returns. When dragonslayer is destroyed, the machine evaporates into dust. A week later, it resurfaces to make battle from when it came out.
-Warded Against the Supernatural: Dragonslayer’s unusual nature protect it against the unnatural. Using any supernatural powers that are resisted by a Supernatural power trait against Dragonslayer itself or its pilot while he rides it suffers a penalty equal to Dragonslayer’s Durability.

The following weapons:
Harpoon gun, Titanic Spear, Hands of Giants

Titanic Spear: 7 damage, AP 4, Initiative -2, Strength 10, Size 20. Increases Defense by +2 when wielded against adjacent enemies.

Hands of Giants: 4, AP 6 Initiative -0, Streng --, Size --. Brawling Weapon.


Lore: Not much is known about Dragonslayer, only that its history is quite long. In the past thousands of years since the Empire’s Fall, many Heirs sought to rebuild the Empire using the scattered remains of humankind as the basis. Most failed to become even worth remembering, but a rare few came close, achieving such power and majesty that many believed that the Empire would be reborn under their rule… atleast until Dragonslayer arrived.

The machine came from parts unknown, seemingly called in response to prevent these Heirs from achieving their Apotheosis. It would always show up, pick some random mortal to serve as its pilot, fight the Hiers responsible. However, while many Heirs have defeated Dragonslayer in combat, the machine never stays down for long. Eventually, Dragonslayer lives up to its name due to attrition. Then, the machine flies off to whatever it came from, never to be found or followed until the next great Heir arrives.

In recent years however, Dragonslayer has been showing up more and more for some reason. And more alarmingly at that, many Heirs feel the unknown machine was what was responsible for the human race to develop Walkers in recent years.


Anyways, I had this idea for a Cost: Luck or Security

Basically, you inflict upon yourself or others you like a curse that makes things more dangerous for them. You suddenly get mugged more often due to bad timing and that guy who narrowly missed shooting your skull because of a lucky wind… doesn’t miss. It can be super cheap… or super suicidal depending on how much luck is being thrown away.


Also, how about Love as a Blessing?

[Amechra]

A request was made?

Blessing of Ardor
Perhaps the simplest way of expanding a community is through the expansion of its population. With this blessing, spring is always in the air, bluebirds twitter and flutter, and saccharine violin music fills the air. The last item on that list might be a lie.
Insult: If the Monument is insulted, members of the population have "Be alone and miserable" as an additional Aspiration.
Minor: If the Minor cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice.
Median: If the Median cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice and gain "Be in an emotionally fulfilling romantic relationship" as an additional Aspiration.
Major: If the Major cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice and gain "Be in an emotionally fulfilling romantic relationship" as an additional Aspiration; in addition, any failed Carousing roll made within the Monument's Reach instead succeeds with a single success.
Steward: The Steward notices a visible improvement on the depth of their personal relationships; they receive a 1xp discount on the True Friend and Eternal Counterpart merits. If they cease to be the Monument's Steward, they must pay back the difference in costs or lose the merits; they may use XP recovered through the Sanctity of Merits to pay their "debt".

Misfortune
Sometimes, a Monument draws its cost from something more ephemeral than a sacrifice or an act of charity. Sometimes, it just makes you plain unlucky.
Minor: Opt to downgrade a Failure to a Dramatic Failure.
Median: Opt to downgrade a Failure to a Dramatic Failure, and suffering at least one level of Lethal damage as a result.
Major: Opt to downgrade a Failure on an Enkindling roll to a Dramatic Failure.
Insult: The Monument becomes insulted if the Steward doesn't suffer at least one Dramatic Failure each day.

Also...

Upgrade Merit:

Heirloom Parts (• - •••••)
The Mech is partially made of dragon bones. This has... interesting... effects.
Effect: This merit is equivalent to the Heirloom merit; however, the benefits of the merit apply to anyone operating the Mech, regardless of whether or not the operator is Spurned or not. In addition, any Willpower cost the Heirloom has costs Power instead.

[Almarck]

Wow, so soon. And you went above and beyond what I had asked for. Thanks, Ame.

Also, I will say that I found your entries as a springboard for that other project, so thanks again.


Uh, so that means we got Horror, Love, Prosperity, Wealth, Victory on blessings.

And then, Sacrifice, Competition, Charity, and Misfortune for the costs.

So, we're 5-4.

[One Tin Soldier]

Alright so, since I felt even the strongest Mechs in my Homebrew are stuff that high level dragons could quite literally stepped on since high tier dragons are ship size and Mechs are… IFV size, I felt that I might as well give my contribution to the “Mega Free For All”, something ridiculous enough to compete with the maxed out dragons and other giant supernaturals.

Yeah, I know the below is hilariously over the top and overpowered, but the idea was to allow a maxed out normal guy to stand shoulder to shoulder against the titans you’ll bring.



Dragonslayer, the Titan
Strength 15
Durability 12
Size 25
Structure 37
Acceleration 7
Speed (Safe/Max): 14/35
Battery: 5
Handling: 0

Comes equipped with the following standard upgrades:
Amphibious 5, Boost, Flight 1, Manual Dexterity 2, Neural Interface, Onboard Computer, Targetting Systems.

The following unique abilities:
-Impossible Alloys: Due to the bizarre composition that is far beyond what modern science can provide, Dragonslayer’s shell is considered magical when it benefits it. Additionally, the Hull may under no circumstances may ever be breached without the pilot’s direct commands.
- Lazurus Systems Even when the Dragonslayer falls in combat, it returns. When dragonslayer is destroyed, the machine evaporates into dust. A week later, it resurfaces to make battle from when it came out.
-Warded Against the Supernatural: Dragonslayer’s unusual nature protect it against the unnatural. Using any supernatural powers that are resisted by a Supernatural power trait against Dragonslayer itself or its pilot while he rides it suffers a penalty equal to Dragonslayer’s Durability.

The following weapons:
Harpoon gun, Titanic Spear, Hands of Giants

Titanic Spear: 7 damage, AP 4, Initiative -2, Strength 10, Size 20. Increases Defense by +2 when wielded against adjacent enemies.

Hands of Giants: 4, AP 6 Initiative -0, Streng --, Size --. Brawling Weapon.


Lore: Not much is known about Dragonslayer, only that its history is quite long. In the past thousands of years since the Empire’s Fall, many Heirs sought to rebuild the Empire using the scattered remains of humankind as the basis. Most failed to become even worth remembering, but a rare few came close, achieving such power and majesty that many believed that the Empire would be reborn under their rule… atleast until Dragonslayer arrived.

The machine came from parts unknown, seemingly called in response to prevent these Heirs from achieving their Apotheosis. It would always show up, pick some random mortal to serve as its pilot, fight the Hiers responsible. However, while many Heirs have defeated Dragonslayer in combat, the machine never stays down for long. Eventually, Dragonslayer lives up to its name due to attrition. Then, the machine flies off to whatever it came from, never to be found or followed until the next great Heir arrives.

In recent years however, Dragonslayer has been showing up more and more for some reason. And more alarmingly at that, many Heirs feel the unknown machine was what was responsible for the human race to develop Walkers in recent years.


Anyways, I had this idea for a Cost: Luck or Security

Basically, you inflict upon yourself or others you like a curse that makes things more dangerous for them. You suddenly get mugged more often due to bad timing and that guy who narrowly missed shooting your skull because of a lucky wind… doesn’t miss. It can be super cheap… or super suicidal depending on how much luck is being thrown away.


Also, how about Love as a Blessing?

Nice. That thing is terrifying; I can see it taking on an entire clutch of high-XP dragons. Which, I suppose, is the point if it's going to be part of the Mega Titan Smackdown: All Monsters Attack!
I'd maybe tweak down the "Supernatural Invulnerability" bit. -12 dice to any resisted power is huge, even taking into account high-level play. Maybe half? It effectively gives if a Supernatural Tolerance of 6 that way, which feels much more in line with its power level.


A request was made?

Blessing of Ardor
Perhaps the simplest way of expanding a community is through the expansion of its population. With this blessing, spring is always in the air, bluebirds twitter and flutter, and saccharine violin music fills the air. The last item on that list might be a lie.
Insult: If the Monument is insulted, members of the population have "Be alone and miserable" as an additional Aspiration.
Minor: If the Minor cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice.
Median: If the Median cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice and gain "Be in an emotionally fulfilling romantic relationship" as an additional Aspiration.
Major: If the Major cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice and gain "Be in an emotionally fulfilling romantic relationship" as an additional Aspiration; in addition, any failed Carousing roll made within the Monument's Reach instead succeeds with a single success.
Steward: The Steward notices a visible improvement on the depth of their personal relationships; they receive a 1xp discount on the True Friend and Eternal Counterpart merits. If they cease to be the Monument's Steward, they must pay back the difference in costs or lose the merits; they may use XP recovered through the Sanctity of Merits to pay their "debt".

Misfortune
Sometimes, a Monument draws its cost from something more ephemeral than a sacrifice or an act of charity. Sometimes, it just makes you plain unlucky.
Minor: Opt to downgrade a Failure to a Dramatic Failure.
Median: Opt to downgrade a Failure to a Dramatic Failure, and suffering at least one level of Lethal damage as a result.
Major: Opt to downgrade a Failure on an Enkindling roll to a Dramatic Failure.
Insult: The Monument becomes insulted if the Steward doesn't suffer at least one Dramatic Failure each day.

Also...

Upgrade Merit:

Heirloom Parts (• - •••••)
The Mech is partially made of dragon bones. This has... interesting... effects.
Effect: This merit is equivalent to the Heirloom merit; however, the benefits of the merit apply to anyone operating the Mech, regardless of whether or not the operator is Spurned or not. In addition, any Willpower cost the Heirloom has costs Power instead.
Wow, you guys are just making the pony references for me at this point.
This is all really neat. Nice work!

[Xallace]

A request was made?

Blessing of Ardor
Perhaps the simplest way of expanding a community is through the expansion of its population. With this blessing, spring is always in the air, bluebirds twitter and flutter, and saccharine violin music fills the air. The last item on that list might be a lie.
Insult: If the Monument is insulted, members of the population have "Be alone and miserable" as an additional Aspiration.
Minor: If the Minor cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice.
Median: If the Median cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice and gain "Be in an emotionally fulfilling romantic relationship" as an additional Aspiration.
Major: If the Major cost is paid, members of the population gain Romantic as an additional Vice and gain "Be in an emotionally fulfilling romantic relationship" as an additional Aspiration; in addition, any failed Carousing roll made within the Monument's Reach instead succeeds with a single success.
Steward: The Steward notices a visible improvement on the depth of their personal relationships; they receive a 1xp discount on the True Friend and Eternal Counterpart merits. If they cease to be the Monument's Steward, they must pay back the difference in costs or lose the merits; they may use XP recovered through the Sanctity of Merits to pay their "debt".

Misfortune
Sometimes, a Monument draws its cost from something more ephemeral than a sacrifice or an act of charity. Sometimes, it just makes you plain unlucky.
Minor: Opt to downgrade a Failure to a Dramatic Failure.
Median: Opt to downgrade a Failure to a Dramatic Failure, and suffering at least one level of Lethal damage as a result.
Major: Opt to downgrade a Failure on an Enkindling roll to a Dramatic Failure.
Insult: The Monument becomes insulted if the Steward doesn't suffer at least one Dramatic Failure each day.


I really like Blessing of Ardor, and I wouldn't of thought of adding Virtue/Vice/Aspirations, although it definitely makes sense.

I'm a little iffy on the exacts of the Misfortune cost, though. Does the Insult only apply during the period, or is that as long as you're its Steward? Does the Monument just activate any time you're in its reach and you downgrade a failure? Do you still get a beat from downgraded a failure, or do you choose between a beat and the Monument benefit?

Edit: Blessings of Ardor and Blessings of Artistry added to the list, along with Life as a cost. I like how at this point you can either donate to charity or bring new life into the world in order to enact unending psychic horror on a town full of people.

[Almarck]

Actually the 12 thing is to make sure that the intended pilot, a completely mundane if highly trained human, is able to stand up against titans. I actually think I need to buff it even more to allow the thing to stand up against fully maxed supernaturals. Perhaps I should buff up ranged combat some more and add better ranged weapons...

In any case, I had the idea that for the sake of terminology maybe some monuments instead of blessing inflict curses on the enemies of the bearer via active or passive means. Horror for instance would be a curse.

Also had the idea that weather should be a blessing/curse, but environmental control is such a big portfolio that it ought to be split up into several different things. Maybe storms, calm, heatwave are a good basis for this.

[Xallace]

I think we've decided that nature-controlling Monuments are the purview of Garuda rather than dragons. Spelling out a couple for the sake of ST use would probably be handy, though.

[Almarck]

Hm so if weather monuments are Garuda specific, what do Hives and Slayers get?


Also how does "stealing" an "improper" monument work? Like a dragon getting a Garuda monument? Does the act of subverting it and conquering the legacy it represents make it effectively a new monument?



Also, had an idea for how Unified Hives would look like.

Essentially, it's a template that gets more benefits based on the Unity of the Hive when it's being enacted.

The Hive consolidates into a single being, gaining double Unity in side, Unity in dots to spread over all of its attributes with a 1 bonus on every attribute to go along with it. It gains every dread power possessed by every member of every caste within the Hive and 3 extra dreadpowers. And then it gets a unique condition representing it gains the full benefits of having maximum attention... but none of the drawbacks.

[Xallace]

I don't imagine Slayers do get Monuments. Their single-minded focus on Dragon destruction would more likely lead them to try and demolish a Monument if they saw it as a source of draconic power than trying to pick it up for themselves. Hypothetically their Kauchaomai may allow them to tap into one, at which point they may be bale to commandeer it through the usual methods. I don't see that happening too often though.

That said, it might be possible for a Monument to be turned to Dragon-Slaying purposes, but that might be more the Tarrasque's game than the Slayers.


A Hive with control of a Monument can use it as a beacon for its Drones (possibly sending orders even while focusing attention elsewhere, or over a wider range) and may be able to use it to "broadcast" the Hive's mentality, making it easier to assimilate new Drones (but no auto-control effects, unless an ST wants a unique apocalyptic scenario).

[Almarck]

So, I decided to make a Hive submission for when we eventually gotta do those buggers into the Doc. Here you go.

I will also note that this is when I noticed that we might not have come to an agreement on how Unity "works".




Endless StalkersTheives of Hordes and Mind
Class: Hive

Aspiration:
[ ] To loot the coffers of every Heir in Los Angeles




HLs
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Willpower
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Attributes


Str ••
Dex •••
Sta ••


Int ••
Wit •••
Res ••


Pre ••
Man ••••
Com •••






Skills


Mental
Physical
Social


Investigation •••
Athletics •••
Empathy ••


Occult •••
Brawl ••
Expression •



Larceny ••••
Intimidation •••



Stealth ••••
Persuasion •••




Survival •••

Subterfuge ••••




Weaponry •••









Merits


Social
Physical
Mental
Supernatural


Resources •••
Archery •••

Encyclopedic Knowledge ••






Parkour •••











[U]Dread Powers[U]
Assimilate - Drains Willpower to convert opponent
Spawn - 1 Willpower
Blackout •• - 1 Willpower[/FONT]
Lurker in the Darkness ••• - 1 Willpower[/FONT]

Create Caste •• Convert Drones into more powerful combat beasts


Huntsman : +1 Dex, +1 Stam, +1 Str, +2 Athletics, +1 Stealth, +1 Health, +2 Speed. Dread Attack (Bow made of shadows) •••. Eye for Desire ••.

Ripper : +1 Stam, +2 Str, +2 Weaponry, +1 Stealth. +2 Speed +1 Health. Dread Attack (knives made of shadow) •••. Flicker and Flash ••




Advantages
Size: 5
Speed: 10
Defense: 6
Initiative: 6
Unity: ■■■■□□□□□□




[/FONT]


The Endless Stalkers a hive that takes its cues and inspiration from the theives and scoundrels of legend twisted by darkness. Eschewing modern weapons for an archaic fighting style, the Stalkers believe it is their duty and destiny to steal anything that isn’t nailed down, whether it be cash or souls.
In recent months, the Hive has learned about dragons and is taking the steps necessary for it to expand to the next level, to steal a dragon’s horde and make itself a legend.

Aiding the Stalkers is their innate ability to manipulate shadows, either for obscuration… or to form weapons made of the shadow stuff. However, they choose not to equip armor or any other forms of protection, feeling that as proud thieves and murderers, that they should rely on their guile and luck for protection, no matter how many drones are spared from taking such precautions.

Typically, Stalkers are organized into cells where Drones are lead by a small collective of Hunters or Rippers, while Drones formed the main bulk of the force. Rarely, they deploy in squads greater than ten, as doing so is rather risky as greater numbers can lead to a reduction of efficiency. Though on occasion, elite parties show up made up of large numbers of Casted Hunters and Rippers to dispose of any threats to the Hive’s operation. Drones stick to the sidelines.

[One Tin Soldier]

I do like that Hive write up, Almarck. And I swear, one of these days I'll get the Unity rules into the doc.

Xallace and I were discussing the dynasties lately, and we've come to the realization that while keying the Yinglong weather control legacy to Survival makes sense, it doesn't fit all that well with what the Yinglong are supposed to be. What use would a bunch of mobsters regularly get out of wilderness survival techniques? So we'd like to change it, and get your guys' input on which skill to use.

Our first thought is Larceny, the go-to skill for criminals. The rationale here is that, unlike other Legacies, the power doesn't really originate from dragons, but instead is stolen from another source - most likely the Garuda. It could even have something to do with why Garuda hate dragons so much, though it doesn't entirely fit the timeline. (Barring changes to the Garuda history; maybe the extermination effort didn't begin until a couple centuries ago.)

Anyone have any other ideas or input?

[Almarck]

Diplomacy and Politics are good choices, the idea being that "weather" itself is a balance of power that needs to be leveraged. Consider your typical mob movie where they hold great power, but have extremely well developed social functions to channel it and prevent it from going out of control. A Dynasty that is basically a mob might be more at home considering the weather aspect not as something that they control, but rather that they convince or delegate.

[Amechra]

Diplomacy is not even a NWoD Skill. I think you mean Persuasion.

My suggestion is Streetwise. Because it's all about figuring out patterns, innit?

[Xallace]

Larceny: The Yinglong steal their power from another source, potentially (though never verified, of course) the Garuda, or wherever the Garuda get it themselves. This has all sorts of backstory possibilities, which is one reason I like it.

Persuasion: Plays up the Yinglong as "oath-makers," striking up a deal with the whether in much the same way they would with mortal accomplices. This is a very changeling approach to their powers, which could be stepping on some toes, but with the right fluff could still work out.

Politics: This feels like a skill that would be more at home in Werewolf; understanding spirit hierarchies and appealing to the right ones, or something like that. I think we can set this one aside.

Streetwise: Understanding the ebb and flow of a city or a society becomes symbolic of understanding the ebb and flow of the weather. I feel like there's a chunk of fluff missing here that would really make it complete.

[Amechra]

Streetwise: It's about patterns, innit? If you watch crowds long enough, they drift like clouds - minor changes make big changes, if you wait long enough. If you want to get anything done in the streets, you don't shout or rant or anything - you drop a few words in the right ears, you give a little push in the right spot, and you watch the patterns... unfold.

So, kid, stop huffing and puffing and watch the clouds. If you want it to stop raining (and I don't blame you - it is rather chilly out), apply some gentle pressure on that break in the cloud cover over there - if you make that a little bigger, the storm clouds are going to dissipate in a hurry.

See? What did I tell ya! It worked.



OK, I'll stop with my terrible attempt at an in-game fiction snippet. The point I'm trying to get across is that Streetwise is literally a cross between Politics, Socialize, and Survival. It is all about fitting in with the locals, managing crowds, and social pattern recognition.

I can actually give reasons for why I don't like the other two options Xallace is suggesting:

Larceny: The vibe I get is less "oh, they stole the power in the backstory!" and more "they are stealing something from the weather". And that just doesn't fit together in my head.

Persuasion: It feels too Changeling to me; Dragons aren't the kind to ask for stuff, in my mind. Though that does bring up using Intimidate to bully the weather into doing what you want, but that is also a bit too "fairy-tale power".

But I'm biased; Streetwise just kinda makes some perverse sense for weather-controlling mobsters.

[Almarck]

I'll back I'll back Streetwise since it's the closest thing to Survival in the game.

I'll note that using Larceny makes no sense at all because... why do they need to steal something that they already have? That's like saying stolen firearms also use Larceny.

[One Tin Soldier]

Completely unrelated to anything we've been discussing recently, I have decided to add something to common dragon slang. Making a deal with a sorcerer granting them the right to make Heirlooms out of your body is referred to as "feeding the crows," and the sorcerers who make such deals are known as "crows." Crows are often treated with suspicion, given the morbid nature of their dealings, but they are the number one way to gain easy access to Heirlooms aside from making them yourself. Besides, they usually pay well for your "carrion."

[One Tin Soldier]

The character sheet link should be fixed now.

[Xallace]

Side note: starter fluff and special ability added to House Jormungand.

[Milo v3]

Question is this 2e nWoD or 1e nWoD?

[One Tin Soldier]

Question is this 2e nWoD or 1e nWoD?

Second Edition, all the way through.

[Almarck]

The experience costs for everything in the main doc say it's 2e. Pretty much the gold standard for telling what edition fan games are when you really think about it.

[Xallace]

5th dot of Immortality of Lernea completed, fluff added to the Yinglong, several higher-level auxes completed in various legacies, more fluff for the Jormungand, overhaul of the benefit for House Ourobouros, and I think that's it on the update for now!

[Xallace]

Our playtest is beginning! How exciting!

As it stands, we have at least one character of each dynasty and I think most of the heritages (possibly excluding Hydra? I'm not sure).

Thank you all, both those who have commented and those who have lurked, in supporting this project along with us! Every person who's gotten involved, even in the smallest of ways, has made this a better game. We hope you'll stay with us while we wrap up the core book and edit from playtesting, and we hope the final product will be something you'll enjoying playing for a long time to come.

Thanks again, everyone!

[Amechra]

I, with odious ritual and estival abjurations, beseech that you do not fall down that errant path, wherein lies the uncomfortable question regarding why Africa receives such... uniqueness? Is it a love for the exotic, or a subconscious urge to make such places other?

(Translated: Dear sweet Crom, no. Do not pull a 90s White Wolf, with their "Asian monsters are different, because they're foreign." Please, consider how straight-up racist it is if Africa has its own completely separate set of dragon Dynasties. Especially since you don't do something similar for Asia, Europe, and the Americas.)

From a quick look around, the "standard" African dragons bear a lot of resemblance to the Zalciai, usually with a more wurm-like body plan. They don't need a unique set of mechanics - they need some setting representation, perhaps, but I confess that I don't have too much experience with Africa.

Speaking of which, Aido-Hwedo (http://notableinklings.blogspot.com/2012/04/dragons-in-africa-aido-hwedo.html) would be an excellent Draconic Name for an Beninese Zalciai Wyrm. A tad egocentric, but what dragon isn't?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Hm. What if... what if each Dynasty developed "local flavours" depending on their geographical location, that, I dunno, gives access to a special Auxiliary of their Dynastic Legacy?

For instance, in Europe until pretty freaking recently, Religion was a huge deal (Crusades, The Inquisition, Catholic/Protestant split, etc). So perhaps a European Nagaraja might get an Auxiliary that lets it know the religious affiliation of the target and how best to press them.

Maybe Asian Zmaj get an Auxilliary that lets them engage in Shamanistic practices, chatting with spirits, exorcism that sort of thing.

Middle-Eastern Yinglong could have an ability that whips up a sandstorm.



You know, that sort of thing. Nothing particularly character changing, but certainly flavourful. It would also help to create drama for players. "What do mean you can't 'do anything' about these ghosts!? Every Zmaj I've met could!" "Those were Asian Zmaj, idiot, I'm from Texas!"

Or something like that.

[Xallace]

The idea wasn't to completely other a continent, and I certainly didn't want an idea to come off as racist! We just want to come up with fluff for why they didn't have any rep in the main game. It seemed as good a place as any for working in some unused ideas and prowling the local mythos for some whole-new concepts for the game. The eventual goal would be to give every continent more flavor - just, starting with one that didn't get any flavor to begin with. Plus new dynasties seemed a fun thing to write.

If that doesn't sound like content anyone would enjoy, or if that really is racist and it's just not hitting me for whatever reason, we will happily rescind the idea and set to work elsewhere for any possible supplements.

[Almarck]

The idea wasn't to completely other a continent, and I certainly didn't want an idea to come off as racist! We just want to come up with fluff for why they didn't have any rep in the main game. It seemed as good a place as any for working in some unused ideas and prowling the local mythos for some whole-new concepts for the game. The eventual goal would be to give every continent more flavor - just, starting with one that didn't get any flavor to begin with. Plus new dynasties seemed a fun thing to write.

If that doesn't sound like content anyone would enjoy, or if that really is racist and it's just not hitting me for whatever reason, we will happily rescind the idea and set to work elsewhere for any possible supplements.

It's more that the idea of African dynasties is pretty jarring when there aren't for the other continents.

My proposal is perhaps to reconcile this by giving "Regional variants" to all of the existing Dynasties, think subhouses rather than fullblown dynasties. List how they differ from traditional western or eastern flavors of the main Dynasty.

Also, the reason Africa isn't covered much in the lore is the result of poor interest in Africa in general. Let's be honest, how important is Africa compared to other Continents when we exclude Egypt?

[Milo v3]

Why not simply handle it the way the 2e vampire, beast and werewolf did? With a chapter that describes Dragons in various different geographies.

[Xallace]

I feel like I worded my original statement quite poorly, and I definitely apologize for that. I'm going to edit that post.

Africa possessing an entirely separate draconic culture may certainly be othering. The idea I more wanted to get across was that certain dynastic philosophies wouldn't take in Africa, and so it may have a few new dynasties in place of some of the ones presented in the core game. Not because Africa is exotic, but because we just didn't have anything for them in the game yet and it seemed like a good chance for new material. And we absolutely would not boil the whole continent down to a single dynasty or something; it's a big place with a lot of culture and local legends to draw from (although, there isn't much in the way of dragon myths to begin with - at least not in the detail we can easily find for elsewhere. Which may be a problem of lack of interest on the part of English-speaking folklorists, unfortunately, and definitely contributed to why we didn't have much African lore to begin with).

Also:


Also, the reason Africa isn't covered much in the lore is the result of poor interest in Africa in general. Let's be honest, how important is Africa compared to other Continents when we exclude Egypt?

I think the problem of lack of interest is a good point. But I think Africa is as important as any other continent, and that's why I would like to give the lore a fair shake (as fair as we can, given problems noted above) in this game.

Edit:


Why not simply handle it the way the 2e vampire, beast and werewolf did? With a chapter that describes Dragons in various different geographies.

Dynasties dictate the dragon side of draconic culture more than the specific geographic location, although those dynasties do rise from the way local culture interacts with the myth of the Empire.

[One Tin Soldier]

To be clear, our whole purpose with making Africa-specific Dynasties is that the continent shouldn't just be glossed over. If we had the thought a year ago, we might have replaced one of the existing Dynasties with an African one, but we're too far along to be making that kind of change now, and simply adding a new main dynasty would have similar problems. The biggest being working them into the rest of the doc as naturally as the existing ones, alongside the issue of needing to create an entire new Legacy. And, as Xallace said, writing up just one dynasty to represent an entire continent would be problematic in its own right, if handled poorly.

At most, this is going to be a sidebar, or an elaboration in the section concerning dynasties and pronto-dynasties outside the main five. And I do see there being plenty of those out there. Africa just has the distinction of having plenty of areas where the less globally powerful ones outclass the main five.
Even that wouldn't be everywhere; it's a big continent, and there's sure to be areas where that's not the case. Its all up to the storyteller in question. But make no mistake, we will do our best to be as respectful to the cultures we pull these from as we are with the ones we've already done.

If we ever get to the point where we'd be writing a supplement, I would personally love to write one on the Dynasties. In that one, we could expand on many of these things, including full write ups of continent-specific Dynasties, weird proto-dynasties, and all the complications of dynastic politics. But that would sadly have to wait for a later date.

TLDR our whole goal with these dynasties is to not be racist through exclusion.

[Sgt. Cookie]

http://i.imgur.com/KXmklBI.png

Opus of Zirnitra. It's a helluva Legacy.

[One Tin Soldier]

http://i.imgur.com/KXmklBI.png

Opus of Zirnitra. It's a helluva Legacy.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I love it.


Also, good timing, because last night we finally played the first session of the playtest!

Game-design wise, there weren't really any new problems that arose, though there were a couple things that I had previously thought of but hadn't done anything about yet. We were more held up by my own inexperience with STing than anything with the game itself.

One thing that became clear is that we need to go through and explicitly define which auxiliary legacies need only the Attribute boost to be active, which ones need the Legacy's "tell," and which ones can be activated independently.

[Sgt. Cookie]

On my end, I'm still plodding through House Echinda. Got some bits and pieces done. The most time consuming part is going to be some sample stats for some of their creations. I'll try to have a first draft for you guys ASAP. I also maaaaay have made a slight change to what I started with. They may or may not be more magitek rather than maternal. But you didn't hear that from me.

[One Tin Soldier]

We've been working on finishing Radiance of Quetzalcoatl. We only have one part of the 5th dot done so far, but I like it:

The dragon cannot be bested in one-to-one competition. Contests of physical might, exercises of will, even challenges of artistic ability, she cannot be bested as long as she has even the slightest idea what she is doing and an opponent to strive against. Any time she loses a contested roll, she may reflexively pay 2 Willpower to instead gain 1 more success than her opponent, as long as she had at least 1 die in her pool.
Yes, it is based on That One Ability The Unconquered Sun Has.
I've also added in a Tell mechanic to the General Legacies, which clarifies and condenses abilities which can only be used when the "visual effect" of the core legacy is active in Anthropos.

[Almarck]

We've been working on finishing Radiance of Quetzalcoatl. We only have one part of the 5th dot done so far, but I like it:

Yes, it is based on That One Ability The Unconquered Sun Has.
I've also added in a Tell mechanic to the General Legacies, which clarifies and condenses abilities which can only be used when the "visual effect" of the core legacy is active in Anthropos.

It might be overpowered or it might be completely balanced game design wise. Then again, it's a huge Willpower sink to use that ability which I think is fine for WoD as Willpower is quite expensive as far as Supernatural resources go.

Still, I think it'd be poetic if the ability is unable to be activated against dramatic failures. Not regular failures, but rather during circumstances where the dragon fails so badly compared to his/her opponent no amount of divine magic can hide it.

And I am happy to hear of changes as of late; other progress made?

[One Tin Soldier]

It might be overpowered or it might be completely balanced game design wise. Then again, it's a huge Willpower sink to use that ability which I think is fine for WoD as Willpower is quite expensive as far as Supernatural resources go.

Still, I think it'd be poetic if the ability is unable to be activated against dramatic failures. Not regular failures, but rather during circumstances where the dragon fails so badly compared to his/her opponent no amount of divine magic can hide it.

And I am happy to hear of changes as of late; other progress made?

Well, by default, there are only two situations in which you can get a dramatic failure: by rolling a 1 on a chance die (which would mean you already can't use the power) or by downgrading a failure for a Beat (which, hopefully obviously, you can't do and then use this ability at the same time). Still, our table and a number of others have house rules for dramatic failures, so the text might be worth adding in.

As for progress, we've been primarily focusing on the play test, which is going well so far. There have been a few things that have needed clarification or change, including the Tell mechanic, but they are generally minor.

[Almarck]

Well, by default, there are only two situations in which you can get a dramatic failure: by rolling a 1 on a chance die (which would mean you already can't use the power) or by downgrading a failure for a Beat (which, hopefully obviously, you can't do and then use this ability at the same time). Still, our table and a number of others have house rules for dramatic failures, so the text might be worth adding in.

As for progress, we've been primarily focusing on the play test, which is going well so far. There have been a few things that have needed clarification or change, including the Tell mechanic, but they are generally minor.

I believe either as a canon rule or a house rule: you suffer dramatic failures on Contested rolls specifically when your opponent has 5 of more Successes above you. It's either that or your opponent gets an exceptional success.

Also, you may want to exclude Clashes of Wills from that power specifically. Those are always contested rolls and the whole point of them is to settle what happens when two powers that don't normally interact with each other encounter each other. Such as say invisibility versus all seeing senses. Or bonds that never break versus a power that breaks bonds regardless of their difficulty. In short, it might be a little too exploitable to have a power to always win Clashes of Wills, even if at a high Willpower drain.

[One Tin Soldier]

I believe either as a canon rule or a house rule: you suffer dramatic failures on Contested rolls specifically when your opponent has 5 of more Successes above you. It's either that or your opponent gets an exceptional success.

Also, you may want to exclude Clashes of Wills from that power specifically. Those are always contested rolls and the whole point of them is to settle what happens when two powers that don't normally interact with each other encounter each other. Such as say invisibility versus all seeing senses. Or bonds that never break versus a power that breaks bonds regardless of their difficulty. In short, it might be a little too exploitable to have a power to always win Clashes of Wills, even if at a high Willpower drain.

Actually, the "perfect defense" aspect of it is what I like the most about the power. The 5 dot level of birthright is meant to be game-changing. A hydra will never die as long as their head is intact, a wyrm or drake can destroy entire cities, a wyvern can consume a creature's soul with a single bite, and an amphitere can no-sell magic used against them (or make their magic irresistible, or generally be Better Than You).

[Almarck]

Actually, the "perfect defense" aspect of it is what I like the most about the power. The 5 dot level of birthright is meant to be game-changing. A hydra will never die as long as their head is intact, a wyrm or drake can destroy entire cities, a wyvern can consume a creature's soul with a single bite, and an amphitere can no-sell magic used against them (or make their magic irresistible, or generally be Better Than You).

I'll admit I am a bit disappointed by that, mostly because it seems too much like an I-Win button or atleast feels too spammable as it currently is.

I get that high level stuff is game changing. I mean, literally everyone has stuff equivalent to city busting or nigh invulnerability in 2e or just bloody murdering everything within a hundred feet, literally I might add. But lots of that stuff isn't universally applicable to nearly every situation you find yourself in and that's what I feel is what pushes it over the deep end.

Perhaps as an alternative, instead of a flat cost, the cost of activation is literally as many successes you need to "win" after determining the results without the power. And unlike other uses of Willpower, doesn't count towards your turn's Willpower limits. Really powerful and keeps the flavor without changing anything save the cost.

Edit: Actually, I forgot about Willpower being a much "smaller" fuel reserve than other Energy types and that has its own drawbacks. So maybe my complain isn't as major as I initially thought.

also, I just learned of an interesting rule: apparently, Willpower is hard capped at 10, even for Supernaturals. For some odd reason, apparently an obscure rule, but apparently that's what's been said about it.

[One Tin Soldier]

I'll admit I am a bit disappointed by that, mostly because it seems too much like an I-Win button or atleast feels too spammable as it currently is.

I get that high level stuff is game changing. I mean, literally everyone has stuff equivalent to city busting or nigh invulnerability in 2e or just bloody murdering everything within a hundred feet, literally I might add. But lots of that stuff isn't universally applicable to nearly every situation you find yourself in and that's what I feel is what pushes it over the deep end.

Perhaps as an alternative, instead of a flat cost, the cost of activation is literally as many successes you need to "win" after determining the results without the power. And unlike other uses of Willpower, doesn't count towards your turn's Willpower limits. Really powerful and keeps the flavor without changing anything save the cost.

Edit: Actually, I forgot about Willpower being a much "smaller" fuel reserve than other Energy types and that has its own drawbacks. So maybe my complain isn't as major as I initially thought.

also, I just learned of an interesting rule: apparently, Willpower is hard capped at 10, even for Supernaturals. For some odd reason, apparently an obscure rule, but apparently that's what's been said about it.

It's also worth remembering that dragons, even with their higher pool (which, as we're learning in the playtest, is still pretty limiting), still have limits on how much they can spend. The "limit" from Kau 1-3 is 1 per turn. They can go over that limit, but each additional point costs another point to access. (so the second costs 2, the third costs 3, etc). And reaching Kau 4 is a significant XP investment, even at that level of play. So for a fair number of dragons, they actually have to spend 3 WP to get the effect, not 2. Even for a dragon with a large pool, spending 3 WP frivolously will deplete their pool fast.

Also, if you were to have to pay WP equal to the successes, it would be essentially just like blowing a bunch of WP on dice. The only extra benefit would be that you could do it after you see the result. So I wouldn't like that nearly as much.

Do you have a source on that Willpower thing? We'd obviously exempt dragons from it, but I'd like to see where it comes up all the same.

[Almarck]

It's also worth remembering that dragons, even with their higher pool (which, as we're learning in the playtest, is still pretty limiting), still have limits on how much they can spend. The "limit" from Kau 1-3 is 1 per turn. They can go over that limit, but each additional point costs another point to access. (so the second costs 2, the third costs 3, etc). And reaching Kau 4 is a significant XP investment, even at that level of play. So for a fair number of dragons, they actually have to spend 3 WP to get the effect, not 2. Even for a dragon with a large pool, spending 3 WP frivolously will deplete their pool fast.

Also, if you were to have to pay WP equal to the successes, it would be essentially just like blowing a bunch of WP on dice. The only extra benefit would be that you could do it after you see the result. So I wouldn't like that nearly as much.

Do you have a source on that Willpower thing? We'd obviously exempt dragons from it, but I'd like to see where it comes up all the same.

Yeah, I remembered Willpower had a very small Max pool and that thing is used for EVERYTHING to the point that blowing 2 WP might actually be a serious investment. Especially with how "slow" it takes for a dragon to spend anything...

Sadly, I actually don't remember where the source comes from. I don't even recall the Forum it was on. I'd cite it for you if I could. But specifically, the hard cap applied to your Willpower pool from Attributes as well as your "trait" value when you used it. Assuming my memory is correct, of course

It was about a month ago I think...

In any case, the rule would realistically only affect Willpower gained as a result of high attributes for Dragons as well as whether or not it applied to the legacies that affect Resolve and Composure (since they increase Resolve and Composure by up to 5 each.)

Still, most people don't know this rule or don't have a situation where it would come into play (as largely it comes up in Post Power Stat 6 games), so it really doesn't matter unless you have a rules lawyer or are in high tier play to begin with.

[Amechra]

Also, apparently your dice pool for 2e is supposed to cap at [base dice pool] + 5 (at least, according to comments from freelancers). So spending multiple Willpower on one roll for extra dice is only good for dealing with penalties, really.

As for "auto-win"... eh, it's a bit much. Then again, you are tossing 8-again and Rote action around like candy, which makes you unlikely to fail the roll anyway, given the generally high dice pools Dragons get while in Drakonos.

Then again, given how strong the rest of the template is... playtest it.

[One Tin Soldier]

Also, apparently your dice pool for 2e is supposed to cap at [base dice pool] + 5 (at least, according to comments from freelancers). So spending multiple Willpower on one roll for extra dice is only good for dealing with penalties, really.

As for "auto-win"... eh, it's a bit much. Then again, you are tossing 8-again and Rote action around like candy, which makes you unlikely to fail the roll anyway, given the generally high dice pools Dragons get while in Drakonos.

Then again, given how strong the rest of the template is... playtest it.

Oh, I plan to. :smallamused:
I have a Birthright 4 Amphitere NPC that the PCs will probably be fighting some time very soon, and she's going to be my main way of testing out Amphitere Birthright stuff, particularly on combat focused characters. If they manage to hurt her bad enough, it's entirely possible that she could go Tyranos. She is very tanky, so I don't expect them to push her that hard before she surrenders or leaves, but it could happen.

If that doesn't pan out, there's also the Zaltys Queen, who is definitely a birthright 5 Amphitere.

Actually, while I'm talking about NPCs, I find myself in the dilemma of having an NPC get targeted by a PC plan before I figured out his exact power list, and there is one particular power he could have that would utterly ruin her plan. If I give it to him, it'll feel like I'm ruining her plan on purpose, but if I don't, it'll feel like I'm letting her off too easy. So I need some advice:

For a socialite Zmaj with 3 dots of Sorcery, what individual spells would he have? Let's say he has a total of 6 spells, and naturally he has to have one at each respective dot level from the base Sorcery dots.

If this doesn't pan out, another option I was considering was for them to pay a higher WP cost (like 3 or 4) to get successes on a roll equal to their diepool, probably with a few limitations on how it can be used. Or something like 2 or 1 WP to just get 1/3 of their pool as successes. Or something like that.

Also, if that is how it works, then Hives become significantly less scary. :smalltongue:

[Almarck]

Oh, I plan to. :smallamused:
I have a Birthright 4 Amphitere NPC that the PCs will probably be fighting some time very soon, and she's going to be my main way of testing out Amphitere Birthright stuff, particularly on combat focused characters. If they manage to hurt her bad enough, it's entirely possible that she could go Tyranos. She is very tanky, so I don't expect them to push her that hard before she surrenders or leaves, but it could happen.

If that doesn't pan out, there's also the Zaltys Queen, who is definitely a birthright 5 Amphitere.

Actually, while I'm talking about NPCs, I find myself in the dilemma of having an NPC get targeted by a PC plan before I figured out his exact power list, and there is one particular power he could have that would utterly ruin her plan. If I give it to him, it'll feel like I'm ruining her plan on purpose, but if I don't, it'll feel like I'm letting her off too easy. So I need some advice:

For a socialite Zmaj with 3 dots of Sorcery, what individual spells would he have? Let's say he has a total of 6 spells, and naturally he has to have one at each respective dot level from the base Sorcery dots.

If this doesn't pan out, another option I was considering was for them to pay a higher WP cost (like 3 or 4) to get successes on a roll equal to their diepool, probably with a few limitations on how it can be used. Or something like 2 or 1 WP to just get 1/3 of their pool as successes. Or something like that.

Also, if that is how it works, then Hives become significantly less scary. :smalltongue:

Well, at the point you get the ability to do that, you probably could survive atleast one shot from antitank weaponry to begin with. Maybe more provided nothing blows up your head and overkills you... So, obviously, yeah, "When you are a fully realized Demigod, Enemy X is no longer as threatening as you recall..."

Of course, at that point, the Hive should they be at a primary antagonist, would have a bunch of stuff to make them still threatening in some manner... specifically, a "Destroyah mode", perhaps a whole bunch of other unfair T5 Abilities on its own behalf...

[Reshy]

So is this still being developed on?

[One Tin Soldier]

So is this still being developed on?

It is! Xallace and I are currently playtesting it with our usual RP group.

[Reshy]

It is! Xallace and I are currently playtesting it with our usual RP group.

So how is that going? How does the game work so far on it's own and how does it mesh with other systems when they come up (Eg. Running into vampires or hunters for instance).

I've mostly been trying to recreate the dragon-feel through Changeling and Demon, due to their more supernatural and less human bents. So I am curious about a game that actually wholly invests in the idea.

[One Tin Soldier]

So how is that going? How does the game work so far on it's own and how does it mesh with other systems when they come up (Eg. Running into vampires or hunters for instance).

I've mostly been trying to recreate the dragon-feel through Changeling and Demon, due to their more supernatural and less human bents. So I am curious about a game that actually wholly invests in the idea.

I haven't gotten a chance to directly introduce any other splats to the game yet (since we can only play every other week or so), but I don't anticipate anything more drastic than other official splats.

On its own, though, it's working well. There have been a couple hiccups, but that's to be expected in playtest, and it's not been anything huge.

[Reshy]

I haven't gotten a chance to directly introduce any other splats to the game yet (since we can only play every other week or so), but I don't anticipate anything more drastic than other official splats.

On its own, though, it's working well. There have been a couple hiccups, but that's to be expected in playtest, and it's not been anything huge.

So what kind of hiccups have been experienced so far?

Also is it an online game or an in-person game? Kinda curious and possibly interested in playtesting if that's the case.

[One Tin Soldier]

So what kind of hiccups have been experienced so far?

Also is it an online game or an in-person game? Kinda curious and possibly interested in playtesting if that's the case.

We play over Skype, but it's with an established group of people, so I'm afraid there's not much chance of you joining in. Unless you happen to be at Penn State main campus, which is where the group is based.

[Reshy]

We play over Skype, but it's with an established group of people, so I'm afraid there's not much chance of you joining in. Unless you happen to be at Penn State main campus, which is where the group is based.

That's what I had thought, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I'll be looking in-depth at the document for it (Now that I'm done bombing my finals), and I'll probably write my thoughts down here once I've read a bit. Albeit, my feedback will probably be less relevant due to my personal lack of playtesting with the system.