How do I make a powerful Druid?

[Windrammer]

Apologies for the silly title. I've never been much of a druid player (Clerics are my favored class among the Tier 1) but I have a friend who is new to DnD who is to play a druid, starting at level 8, in a good aligned, monster hunting campaign.

Now there really isn't anything more to worry about beyond the Natural Spell feat to be a competent character in the company of fighters and such. But he's in a party with two optimized clerics, and I want him to be able to do more than what I've figured him to be able to do so far.

He wants to be more utility oriented, which is simple enough. But what can I do to make him shine? What makes a Druid good at melee or tanking when he inevitably wants to? What are some cool things that he can do within the confines of a thematically standard druid? We won't be bothering with the kooky cheesy crap like aberration wild shapes and whatnot.

[Karl Aegis]

Well, define kooky cheesy crap. Is Streamers okay?

[Windrammer]

Well, define kooky cheesy crap. Is Streamers okay?

No spells are off limits, necessarily. I'm just talking about weird feats, templates, and the like. We do need to figure some more feats to pick but I'm just concerned with keeping things in line with the proper Druid theme.

[Wacky89]

if spells are off-limit I recommend the Master of Many Forms prestige class from Complete Adventurer

[Troacctid]

The power of a Druid is not really dependent on how you build the character, because your basic Druid 20 comes preloaded with everything you need to be overpowered. Just add Natural Spell. You can spend all your other feat slots on Toughness and still be fine.

What it more comes down to is how well you pilot the character. Good spell selection, resource management, and tactics are the name of the game. Play smart, plan ahead, and know your options.

[eggynack]

Well, if you're skipping aberration, the next best option is likely dragon wild shape, which comes online at 12th. Would do a good job of providing spontaneous arbitrary utility, which is a thing he seems to seek. He apparently wants some capacity to have face be beaten, and doesn't want stuff that falls to hard on cheese, so rashemi elemental summoning makes some sense as the summoning feat of choice. Beyond that, what he really needs is a good spell list, especially if he wants to focus on utility, and for that I could send over the druid handbook I'm working on. I think most of the stuff pertinent to your/his interests is covered there.

[Karl Aegis]

Desert Half-Orc Druid with Greenbound, Ashbound or Rashemi Elemental Summoning seems to be pretty popular and is a decent baseline for a summoner druid. Frozen, Exalted or Aberation Wild Shape are good options for a wild shape focused druid. Anything that can give you new forms is better than the base animals, but the animals can be pretty useful. You don't really need much more than spells to be super powerful. Even then, you don't need good spells when you can spontaneously convert your spells into summons.

[Amphetryon]

Feats for a generic Gnome Druid:

1) Spell Focus: Conjuration
3) Augment Summoning
6) Natural Spell (insert joke about getting a Class feature instead of a Feat at 6th)
9) Rapid Spell (Complete Divine)
12) Extend Spell
15) Craft Wondrous Item
18) Still Spell

This is FAR from the most powerful path, strays from Core precisely once, and should easily suffice for power in most games. Take a Riding Dog (trained for war) as your Animal Companion at 1st level, and swap out for dinosaurs, big cats, or bears as desired. Put WIS as high as possible, CON at 14, and don't dump CHA entirely. For Skills, Survival, Knowledge: Nature, Concentration, Handle Animal, and (for the heck of it) Ride work perfectly well as your default suite.

[johnbragg]

The power of a Druid is not really dependent on how you build the character, because your basic Druid 20 comes preloaded with everything you need to be overpowered. Just add Natural Spell. You can spend all your other feat slots on Toughness and still be fine.

What it more comes down to is how well you pilot the character. Good spell selection, resource management, and tactics are the name of the game. Play smart, plan ahead, and know your options.

As for the first paragraph, the OP seems to know that perfectly well. He's ASKING about spell selection, resource management, tactics and that sort of thing. \\

I've never played a Druid, so I have little to nothing to say, except that I googled up a Druid Handbook from the MinMAx boards. Here it is. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0)

[eggynack]

9) Rapid Spell (Complete Divine)

I would probably stay away from rapid spell, as it doesn't seem to work with spontaneously cast SNA, which is presumably where you'd want it. Improved initiative is a decent choice if you're going for a core build.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, stick to Druid, don't multiclass or take any prestige classes. The only thing he could take that won't make him worse at 2/3 of his character is Planar Shepherd, and you don't want to open that can of worms.

He should get Natural Bond, and get a Fleshraker Dinosaur in MM3 for his animal companion. You can apply the 'level -3' for a stronger companion before the benefits of the feat, so he still gets to count his full Druid level toward its benefits. Say he used Handle Animal to give it the Warbeast template in MM2. Alternatively, if he's an exalted character get Exalted Companion for a Celestial Dire Eagle in RoS, the text that puts it at 'level -3' overrides the table in PH2 that mistakenly lists it as 'level -6', but he'll still count as one level lower due to Exalted Companion. Give that companion Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty, and still use Handle Animal to make it a Warbeast.

He should wear a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp in MIC to add his Wis bonus to his AC, and he can also full attack with unarmed strikes and make natural attacks as secondary attacks when he's wild shaped. Pick up Multiattack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiattack) to reduce the drawbacks of that. He can use ((Lesser) Rod of Extended) (Greater) Luminous Armor every day if he's good aligned, and get a Rod of Bodily Restoration to fix the Str damage that occurs when it ends. Otherwise he can wear armor and use a shield that have the Wild property, they'll meld into his form when he wild shapes and he'll count as unarmored and not carrying a shield, despite still benefiting from their AC bonuses, because that's the only thing retained from Wild gear.

For spells, some of the better choices include Kelpstrand, Sleet Storm, Extended Creeping Cold, and Wall of Thorns. He can spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally for one or more Unicorns if they need a Magic Circle and/or cure spells/Neutralize Poison. He can use a Ring of the Beast in CC to use a lower level spell slot for that even. He can get Greenbound Summoning in Lost Empires of Faerun to summon Greenbound animals, which can immediately use their Wall of Thorns spell-like ability to automatically trap opponents, even if it's from a 1st level summon. (Spell-like abilities have no minimum caster level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities).) A 1st level character with Greenbound Summoning can use SNAI to get a Greenbound Dire Rat that will use Wall of Thorns to trap multiple creatures for ten minutes.

Obligatory Druid Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0) link.

[Amphetryon]

I would probably stay away from rapid spell, as it doesn't seem to work with spontaneously cast SNA, which is presumably where you'd want it. Improved initiative is a decent choice if you're going for a core build.

Am I missing a line in the errata, or is this a difference of opinion over how this line in the Feat reads?


This feat can be applied to a spell cast spontaneously as long as its original casting time was longer than one full round.

[nyjastul69]

Am I missing a line in the errata, or is this a difference of opinion over how this line in the Feat reads?

SNA are spontaneously cast spells that do not take more than a full round to cast. Why would rapid spell apply? If a druid prepared SNA, it seems RS would apply.

[eggynack]

SNA are spontaneously cast spells that do not take more than a full round to cast. Why would rapid spell apply? If a druid prepared SNA, it seems RS would apply.
This thing, rather than the other errata thing. SNA does not take more than one full round, because even if the timing is wonky, that's just how full rounds are defined in the context of casting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The normal casting time of SNA is 1 round, i.e. measured in rounds. "A rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round." Basically, instead of the animals appearing at the start of your next round, they appear at the end of your current round. I wouldn't really consider that to be worth it. Focus on something different, for example get Versatile Spellcaster and the highest level SNA you can cast is always one level higher than your highest level spell slots. This has favorable interactions with a Ring of the Beast, and it also allows you to take the Summon Elemental reserve feat at 6th level (as though you wouldn't put Natural Spell there, but it's useful for getting it in E6 at least).

[eggynack]

The normal casting time of SNA is 1 round, i.e. measured in rounds. "A rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round." Basically, instead of the animals appearing at the start of your next round, they appear at the end of your current round.
The rules specify that, "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." Thus, it does not take more than a full-round action to use SNA.

[nyjastul69]

The normal casting time of SNA is 1 round, i.e. measured in rounds. "A rapid spell with a casting time measured in rounds can be cast in 1 full round." Basically, instead of the animals appearing at the start of your next round, they appear at the end of your current round. I wouldn't really consider that to be worth it. Focus on something different, for example get Versatile Spellcaster and the highest level SNA you can cast is always one level higher than your highest level spell slots. This has favorable interactions with a Ring of the Beast, and it also allows you to take the Summon Elemental reserve feat at 6th level (as though you wouldn't put Natural Spell there, but it's useful for getting it in E6 at least).

Per the SRD a casting time of 1 round is the same as a full-round action. Are there any spells with a listed casting time of 'full-round action'?


Originally posted by the SRD:
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

[Curmudgeon]

The rules specify that, "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." Thus, it does not take more than a full-round action to use SNA.
That doesn't follow. It's a full-round action, and the casting continues until just before the start of your next turn.

[eggynack]

That doesn't follow. It's a full-round action, and the casting continues until just before the start of your next turn.
It's still taking up a round, rather than more than a round, regardless of when the summons pops up. SNA is defined as taking a full round action, a full round action is defined as requiring one entire round to complete, and rapid spell requires that the spell take more than one entire round.