Anti Psion item/weapons

[ganondorf50]

Ok my players Psion has gotten a bit too powerful, he managed to take control of a golems body, I am currently trying to find good anti psionic items but I am having difficulties. Any Ideas?

Long story but the player got ahold of a magical artifical that had a bless/bane effect if he died he would return to life in the nearest living thing. The golem was awakened before you ask.

The game is 3.5

[Barbarian Horde]

Not sure how to help. What I do suggest is for all future campaigns you disallow psion. In my opinion they are broken.

This might help read it.
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/946751

[Ephemeral_Being]

Anything with Catapsi. It's exactly what you want.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Not sure how to help. What I do suggest is for all future campaigns you disallow psion. In my opinion they are broken.

Extrapolating off of this, just ban everything that gets 9th level spells/powers/whatever. You'll find yourself with a significantly improved game.

On that note, you gave the player a goodie he shouldn't have. This is bad, because no amount of genuine apologizing changes the fact that letting them have something for a while just to fiat it away is like letting a child have part of a lollipop and then taking it back and throwing the rest in the trash. Instead, find an in-character way to remove his goodie, preferably one that doesn't stink of "you're targeting me specifically!" Alternatively, find other ways to threaten him: this game has ways to remove characters from the campaign that aren't death, and a lot of them are things that will make the character wish they were dead.

Don't go anti-Psion on him, though, especially since you gave him the thing that's causing problems.

(Actually, I have to ask. Have you considered talking to him about how you don't think that's fair? Maybe you can work something out like adults that makes both people happy. One short quest later, he loses his immortality device... By transforming it into some other really awesome artifact that he'll be more powerful, but less immortal, for having.)

[Barbarian Horde]

Really what it comes down to is you reading the how and understanding the mechanics of a psion so that a player doesn't abuse it because of their interpretation of the rules or misunderstanding up them.

[Karl Aegis]

This really isn't a problem with psionics, this is a problem with artifacts.

[Wolfofmibu66]

A few questions first:

What type of golem are we talking about here?

As a DM are you using Psionics/Magic Transparency?


On to the topic of anti-psionic stuff, there are many many ways to wreck a psion's day. The key points being if you use transparency IE. magic == psionics, spell resistance = psi resistance, anti-magic = anti-psionics ect.

Apart from those things, if the psion is high enough level to deserve these things then Apopsi can be used to delete his powers from his memory(this is a 9th level power and rather nasty, so i wouldn't use it on a player unless they have the means to reverse it(wish/equivalent spell or power within one week of the deletion). Reddopsi bounces targeted non-touch psionic powers back on the original manifester(caster) and is a 7th level kineticist power, but items of it can be inserted by DM fait. Catapsi forces will saves, or psionic powers will cost 4 power points more. The save iterates every time they try to manifest something, and it also lengthens the time of psi-like abilities.

[ganondorf50]

answers to a few questions he managed to get a hold of a shadesteel golem, The artifact is balanced and I story drove it so he is now rid of it. But he keeps most of the powers. I am just fighting a fighter and a psion at once and its more difficult than I anticipated. Also magic/psionic transparancy is in effect

[ganondorf50]

Really what it comes down to is you reading the how and understanding the mechanics of a psion so that a player doesn't abuse it because of their interpretation of the rules or misunderstanding up them.

I know for a fact that this player does not abuse his situation, I am thinking this is more my fault, and I backed my self in a corner

[Karl Aegis]

What does fighting a fighter and a psion at once even mean? Is your psion wasting his actions trying to be a fighter even though fighter actions aren't good?

[Wolfofmibu66]

Considering that he is now for all intents and purposes a construct, does he retain all construct traits? or did you alter the type to living construct, because really if he's a living construct, then he's gimped on healing, and all you'd need to do is get a weapon to bypass his DR, and give it to a standard mage-killer type, and he's in trouble, especially because of the 1/2 healing rate (living construct) or no healing(regular construct). In addition to that, give the mage killer an amulet of reddopsi and/or catapsi, and the Psion is going to be pretty much helpless. Throw in a second NPC to tie up the fighter, maybe some monster with improved grapple, grab, and a nice hefty modifier to keep said fighter out of the way while the mage-slayer goes to work. Make a group of enemy casters and volley some nasty spells (ray of dizziness (no save, 1 action/round), ray of enfeeblement(paralysis via strength drain), enervation(neg levels are a b**ch))...the list is endless really.

That being said, the above is the best way to KILL the psion, if you just want to make things a bit harder for him, catapsi and reddopsi are your best bets for shutting down his powers. Some psionic enemies come with their own little tricks and nasty abilities, so sprinkle those as needed. Standard things, like target his weak saves, throw grappling magic/psi resistant or immune enemies at him, whatever you feel is appropriate to correct his abuse of a situation.

EDIT: If you really really hate the idea of him inhabiting the golem, plot-hole it out, have him run into a nasty enemy who sees how effective he is and True Mind Switches him, basically stealing his body, while giving him said enemy's current one. True Mind Switch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm)

[torrasque666]

Make a group of enemy casters and volley some nasty spells (ray of dizziness (no save, 1 action/round), ray of enfeeblement(paralysis via strength drain), enervation(neg levels are a b**ch))...the list is endless really.
Psion in question here. Full Construct, not Living Construct. So I hope those suggestions are for how to handle the fighter that I have literally chained to my person. Because Ray of dizziness is mind-effecting and the other two are necromancy, both of which constructs are immune to.

My advice would be to use narrow tunnels(dude, I am literally the largest person in the group. other than the one other caster who is not causing problems due to not showing up half the time) lit by something like a permanent Daylight effect to cancel out my incorporealness and low enough that I can't fly. Then, well, you've seen how we use grease to destroy just about any landbound enemy we've encountered. Same will work for me, just use a +1 adamantine weapon to overcome my DR.

Or, I could hand you my sheet and turn him into a villain. He's evil/dickish enough.

[Wolfofmibu66]

Psion in question here. Full Construct, not Living Construct. So I hope those suggestions are for how to handle the fighter that I have literally chained to my person. Because Ray of dizziness is mind-effecting and the other two are necromancy, both of which constructs are immune to.

My advice would be to use narrow tunnels(dude, I am literally the largest person in the group. other than the one other caster who is not causing problems due to not showing up half the time) lit by something like a permanent Daylight effect to cancel out my incorporealness and low enough that I can't fly. Then, well, you've seen how we use grease to destroy just about any landbound enemy we've encountered. Same will work for me, just use a +1 adamantine weapon to overcome my DR.

Or, I could hand you my sheet and turn him into a villain. He's evil/dickish enough.

Bad form spying on the DM, but since you're here and you answered a few more of the questions i had, as well as raised a few more, here's what I've got. It all depends on how much of a problem the DM feels your character is causing, and if he wants us to help him build challenges around having a sentient, magic immune, scary as hell, technically non-living party member, then so be it.

Since you're full construct, to "deal" with you, either in the permanent or non-permanent sense, I'd probably end up throwing negative resistant enemies with either adamantine weapons or weapons with demolition crystals on them at you. Not sure what version of shadesteel golem you're using, since the base doesn't have incorporeality, just concealment in any condition other than full daylight. And as per the MM3, any spell with the light descriptor gives you haste, positive energy gives you hase, and dark/shadow spells(descriptor) heal you based on their level.

Also considering you're a full construct, you cannot heal in the traditional sense, your support mage would be an easy target, and the way you describe it makes it sound like the fighter is a cohort or minion, not another player. The magic immunity only applies to things that allow SR, so there are a few spells/powers that can get around it and still cause problems.

Something to consider would be, if you were to hand in your character sheet, would you really want to fight him, and if so, would the DM actually use him based on your mental answer to that previous question. If you've made him so horrendous, so tough to deal with that your DM is coming here at the end of his rope for how to deal with you short of handwaving and haxxery, then giving him that character as a villan means you should pray that he isn't malicious enough to turn it back on you.

[torrasque666]

Bad form spying on the DM, but since you're here and you answered a few more of the questions i had, as well as raised a few more, here's what I've got. It all depends on how much of a problem the DM feels your character is causing, and if he wants us to help him build challenges around having a sentient, magic immune, scary as hell, technically non-living party member, then so be it.

Oh I figured it'd be bad form. I really only figured it out through some context clues though. Hell, I'm surprised I got so bad for him to come here. But I want to help him be able to challenge/defeat me. But is it really spying if they come to my turf?


Since you're full construct, to "deal" with you, either in the permanent or non-permanent sense, I'd probably end up throwing negative resistant enemies with either adamantine weapons or weapons with demolition crystals on them at you. Not sure what version of shadesteel golem you're using, since the base doesn't have incorporeality, just concealment in any condition other than full daylight. And as per the MM3, any spell with the light descriptor gives you haste, positive energy gives you hase, and dark/shadow spells(descriptor) heal you based on their level.The incorporeality is another of the artifact's powers.


Also considering you're a full construct, you cannot heal in the traditional sense, your support mage would be an easy target, and the way you describe it makes it sound like the fighter is a cohort or minion, not another player. The magic immunity only applies to things that allow SR, so there are a few spells/powers that can get around it and still cause problems. I know about the immunity, and in fact we actually toned it down to SR 12+HD=SR 20(Golem's HD is ignored.) Thing is, he hasn't really been throwing casters at us. That.... probably might need to change a bit.


Something to consider would be, if you were to hand in your character sheet, would you really want to fight him, and if so, would the DM actually use him based on your mental answer to that previous question. If you've made him so horrendous, so tough to deal with that your DM is coming here at the end of his rope for how to deal with you short of handwaving and haxxery, then giving him that character as a villan means you should pray that he isn't malicious enough to turn it back on you.Oh I would love to fight him, but mostly because I built him subpar. In fact, until he came into the golem body, he was actually probably one of the weaker party members. Mostly blasting powers, and specializes in Energy Ray. And he's a Telepath.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Shadesteel Golems are Extraplanar, native to the Plane of Shadow. Someone on a plane that's neither the one he's currently on nor the one he's native to can cast Gate to call him, and force him to serve them for two rounds per caster level, no saving throw. Make a feeble old Wizard who's covetous of his immortal form Gate him in, give him a single-use item of Mind Switch, True, wait (remaining duration -1) rounds, force him to use the Mind Switch, True to trade bodies with the Wizard, and then dismiss him back from whence he came. He's now a venerable human with Str 4, Dex 6, Con 8, and only a few years left to live.

[torrasque666]

-Nuclear Option-
Adding item of continuous Dimensional Anchor to shopping list..... now.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Adding item of continuous Dimensional Anchor to shopping list..... now.

Yeah, about that... Dimensional Anchor is SR: Yes, so it won't have any affect on a Shadesteel Golem.

[Wolfofmibu66]

Yeah, about that... Dimensional Anchor is SR: Yes, so it won't have any affect on a Shadesteel Golem.
he stated they removed the immunity, but idk if you can voluntarily fail the save for something like D-anchor. I know some races can suppress their SR at will, but i'd guess this would fall to DM perogative, I could be completely wrong though.

[ganondorf50]

I got it handled now its cool thanks for the advice

[Psyren]

The golem was awakened before you ask.

https://pethatesblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/hermes-meme.jpg

Awaken just makes something intelligent. It doesn't give them a Con score, which is what you would need to be a "living creature."

[atemu1234]

Not sure how to help. What I do suggest is for all future campaigns you disallow psion. In my opinion they are broken.

This might help read it.
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/946751

Step 1: Don't do this.
Step 2: Trap the body.
Step 3: Find a way to switch back the mind (mirror of true mind switch?).